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We promised we’d be back with another episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast after the Alien: Covenant teaser trailer dropped and we keep our promises!

We have just uploaded the 44th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download). Our final episode of 2016 sees Omegamorph, RidgeTop, Xenomorphine and I discuss the new Alien: Covenant teaser trailer.

We offer our opinions on the trailer and break it down and talk through it scene by scene. We talk through what we loved about the trailer, what we didn’t enjoy and what impressions it gives us for the finished film’s release on the 19th of May 2017. It’s another lengthy one (you guys and girls seem to enjoy them!), clocking in at just under 3 hours.

We mentioned several of our articles in the podcast. You can find them here: teaser trailer breakdown, reveal that James Franco and Guy Pearce would be appearing in Alien: Covenant and all about the Neomorphs. We also posted a gallery of stills taken from the teaser trailer.

Make sure you stick with Alien vs. Predator Galaxy through 2017 for the latest news on Alien: Covenant, The Predator and Alien 5. We’ll be back with the podcast in 2017 with an interview with Aliens’ Private Spunkmeyer aka Daniel Kash! You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to get the latest on your social media walls.

If you are new to the podcast, you can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. If you’re an Apple user, you can subscribe to the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast directly via iTunes.

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Finally. Time to make a brew and enjoy listening. Thanks Hicks!

Thanks for this. :)

It's nearly 3 hours. Bloody hell. It's longer than the movie itself :).

Wow that was quick !

Downloading now !!

Woooooooooooooooooooooooo! that just made my friday! been dying to listen to this!!!

Thanks, guys!!! 8)

For Hicks.
Mountain scenery on that window (think its just a huge screen).
I think its just some landscape on Iceland.

(https://i.imgur.com/sirY6nb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3KpJ39P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T4MKD0f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TLa314Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xN93XYb.jpg)

Still searching for that particular scenery. But I m sure its Iceland
or perhaps somewhere in Scandinavia.

Just listening. I'm on 20 minute and you guys complain a lot! :)

Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 09:20:59 PM
For Hicks.
Mountain scenery on that window (think its just a huge screen).
I think its just some landscape on Iceland.

(https://i.imgur.com/sirY6nb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3KpJ39P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T4MKD0f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TLa314Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xN93XYb.jpg)

Still searching for that particular scenery. But I m sure its Iceland
or perhaps somewhere in Scandinavia.

I think you're right. I really do.

I thought it was quite even lol it's not an episode endlessly praising the trailer nor is it an episode just bitching. It's quite even.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 09:51:00 PM
I thought it was quite even lol it's not an episode endlessly praising the trailer nor is it an episode just bitching. It's quite even.

It's even but sometimes you complain about so silly things :) Are you all British? ;)

Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 09:20:59 PM
For Hicks.
Mountain scenery on that window (think its just a huge screen).
I think its just some landscape on Iceland.

(https://i.imgur.com/sirY6nb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3KpJ39P.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T4MKD0f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TLa314Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xN93XYb.jpg)

Still searching for that particular scenery. But I m sure its Iceland
or perhaps somewhere in Scandinavia.

Maybe try south island of NZ considering they shot there.  Fiordland in particular.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 09:54:10 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 09:51:00 PM
I thought it was quite even lol it's not an episode endlessly praising the trailer nor is it an episode just bitching. It's quite even.

It's even but sometimes you complain about so silly things :) Are you all British? ;)

What do you consider silly?

Only Brits are me and Xenomorphine. RidgeTop is American, Omega is Italian.

Well, honestly, whoever was complaining about how the Covenant wasn't bulky enough...  :-X

Quote from: SM on Dec 30, 2016, 09:59:52 PM

Maybe try south island of NZ considering they shot there.  Fiordland in particular.

I pretty much know that part of New Zealand, Fiordland area... near Te Anau, Milfor Sound.
P.S. Love that shoot of Sutherland waterfall and lake from Covenant.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/cc/6d/e0/cc6de03c0bc97308650646ad77463973.jpg) (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1JmG5o2.jpg&hash=36fe80c1cb01666604d2c276cf393c03d5534e22)

Now that I think of it, it looks more like it might be around Queenstown/ Glenorchy or even further north towards Mt Cook.

Perhaps mt. Alfred
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kiwileni.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fnew-zealand-south-island-2012%2FNZDay24Pano06_small.jpg&hash=c2547f3f950e836330bb5cb1f4b484c250ebdd31)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2Ffd4b899aba034106a6ad2c9bc29ca4ae.wix_mp_1024&hash=70b57274f1dcf0a45c7d37da0ff9a39b0ea16bee)

Queensland is near, Dart river and lake Wakatipu.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prints.co.nz%2Fmm5%2Fgraphics%2F00000001%2FDart_River_Glenorchy.jpg&hash=e9c820a28435df43699eadb694f3b207020fe165)


One thing I must say, New Zealand is really beautiful.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 10:05:34 PM
What do you consider silly?

I understand it's difficult to judge anything based on the trailer but you're too picky in general :) I think it's inevitable part of being Alien geek.

Some "silly" issues discussed in the podcast:

*Shape of the Covenant ship. Seriously?
*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.
*Beauty of Alien universe is getting too complicated because of new stuff. How come? Do you want to see the same stuff all the same?
*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.
*Tempo of the song in the trailer.
*Daniels as a main female character and looking Ripley alike.
*Modern guns.
*Ignoring AvP as a part of franchise. What's wrong about that? For me AvP has nothing to do with Alien universe. It's a crossover. It's like Frankenstein meeting Dracula. Ridley Scott absolutely don't care about AvP. I don't care about it.

And at the end: you guys are obsessed about Neill Blomkamp's Alien project like it's gonna be great by definition :). You might be disappointed when it turns out that Covenant's gonna be better than Alien 3.2. It's just my feeling.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 10:47:27 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 10:05:34 PM
What do you consider silly?

I understand it's difficult to judge anything based on the trailer but you're too picky in general :) I think it's inevitable part of being Alien geek.

Some "silly" issues discussed in the podcast:

*Shape of the Covenant ship. Seriously?
*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will a address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.
*Beauty of Alien universe is getting too complicated because of new stuff. How come? Do you want to see the same stuff all the same?
*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.
*Tempo of the song in the trailer.
*Daniels as a main female character and looking Ripley alike.
*Modern guns.
*Ignoring AvP as a part of franchise. What's wrong about that? For me AvP has nothing to do with Alien universe. It's a crossover. It's like Frankenstein meeting Dracula. Ridley Scott absolutely don't care about AvP. I don't care about it.

And at the end: you guys are obsessed about Neill Blomkamp's Alien project like it's gonna be great by definition :). You might be disappointed when it turns out that Covenant's gonna be better than Alien 3.2. It's just my feeling.

Wow Hicks!!!! :o Nitpicky much!!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/cc/6d/e0/cc6de03c0bc97308650646ad77463973.jpg)

A leaking vagina!

2 hours and 43 minutes.... my god people we do have a life outside of ze aliens. :P

I think the nitpicky comes from too much Prometheus comparisons although this sure as hell is Prometheus Take². You proved that in the first 10 minutes. :)

btw: I haven't made it half way yet so that NB thing could be annoying I'm suspecting, to us people who prefer to have the Ridley Route.

Great podcast guys, finished it in one sitting.


Overall it felt as if no one had any real optimism for the film or actually enjoyed the trailer despite everyone but omega saying otherwise. I enjoyed the trailer a lot and am pretty hyped up but this podcast brought me back down a bit. Now I am also afraid that David will become the aliens creator, I was hoping that was debunked.

I felt Omega's comparisons to alien rippoffs like insemindoid are overly hyperbolic. I don't think he wanted this film regardless of the trailer.


Still I was some really great discussion, let's hope the final film is better than we all fear.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Dec 30, 2016, 11:25:37 PM
Overall it felt as if no one had any real optimism for the film or actually enjoyed the trailer (...)

I had the same feeling.

You realize you're being picky about our "picky" opinions?  :laugh: I think we make it pretty clear that we're not trashing on the film based on those trailers and we make it clear that we know it's difficult to judge based on an incomplete picture being presented by the trailer. We also talk things through based on those concerns as to what would be good and what would be bad.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 10:47:27 PM
*Shape of the Covenant ship. Seriously?

That's Xenomorphine's preference. He might have wanted something with a more unique design. I'm sure he'll comment on that later.

Quote*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will a address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.

In no way is that a silly concern. It was a major issue people had with Prometheus and if it's not addressed then it's a genuine issue to be had with Covenant as I suspect it completely facilitates the narrative drive of the middle of the film. But if it is addressed and not done in a silly manner then yay! And we talk that over. And Alien isn't Star Trek or Star Wars. Completely different series.

Quote*Beauty of Alien universe is getting too complicated because of new stuff. How come? Do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

Can you be more specific? Not sure what you're trying to criticize here?

Quote*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.

I'll have to let Xenomorphine answer that one.

Quote*Tempo of the song in the trailer.

And why is that silly?

Quote*Daniels as a main female character and looking Ripley alike.

Completely legitimate concern. If every single Alien film starts to follow that template it becomes formulaic and that becomes stale and boring. Not saying Covenant is going to be stale or formulaic, but always having a female lead that survives to the end of the film becomes predictable.

Quote*Modern guns.

Again, I specifically say it's not a film breaking issue but it's an issue I can understand and empathize with. There is absolutely no doubt that for a lot of fans, the military hardware of Aliens is an important draw. There's no doubt that Aliens weaponry is iconic and there's a reasonable expectation to see something that doesn't look like it was just picked up out of a local prop storage.

Quote*Ignoring AvP as a part of franchise. What's wrong about that? For me AvP has nothing to do with Alien universe. It's a crossover. It's like Frankenstein meeting Dracula. Ridley Scott absolutely don't care about AvP. I don't care about it.

And on the flipside of that, RidgeTop likes the AvP's and doesn't want them tossed out. Do I agree with him? No, I don't and say I don't care for it. But it's not silly for him.

QuoteAnd at the end: you guys are obsessed about Neill Blomkamp's Alien project like it's gonna be great by definition :). You might be disappointed when it turns out that Covenant's gonna be better than Alien 3.2. It's just my feeling.

No-one says such a thing. Sounds like Omega is more interested in Blomkamp's otherwise everyone else is hoping for a good Covenant and a good performance so we get more Alien films. You're generalizing quite badly here.

I realize you loved the trailer and you'd like others to like it as much as you do and I wouldn't demean you for that. I also realize some folk hated the trailer and I wouldn't deride them for that either. I'll happily talk through any issues or any loves that the trailer raised with people but I wouldn't describe any of those concerns that any of us had as "silly" and I hope you can understand the responses above.

---

Quote from: 426Buddy on Dec 30, 2016, 11:25:37 PM
Overall it felt as if no one had any real optimism for the film or actually enjoyed the trailer despite everyone but omega saying otherwise. I enjoyed the trailer a lot and am pretty hyped up but this podcast brought me back down a bit. Now I am also afraid that David will become the aliens creator, I was hoping that was debunked.

In all fairness, it was 2am (I think 3am for Omega) by the time we finished recording so you're probably hearing tiredness more than anything.  :laugh:

I'm genuinely looking forward to Alien: Covenant! I didn't think the trailer that we were given was great but as Xenomorphine said, fan cuts of the trailer have been fantastic! I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes but I do have concerns.

QuoteI felt Omega's comparisons to alien rippoffs like insemindoid are overly hyperbolic. I don't think he wanted this film regardless of the trailer.

I felt the same and I said as much. But yeah, Omega didn't enjoy Prometheus either so this story direction isn't somewhere he wants to go. I'm sure he'll be able to explain better if you're interested.

QuoteStill I was some really great discussion, let's hope the final film is better than we all fear.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. The intent of this wasn't to just sit down and wrag on the film or some such. Made sure we put some thought into everything.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 10:47:27 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 10:05:34 PM
What do you consider silly?

I understand it's difficult to judge anything based on the trailer but you're too picky in general :) I think it's inevitable part of being Alien geek.

Some "silly" issues discussed in the podcast:

*Shape of the Covenant ship. Seriously?
*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.
*Beauty of Alien universe is getting too complicated because of new stuff. How come? Do you want to see the same stuff all the same?
*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.
*Tempo of the song in the trailer.
*Daniels as a main female character and looking Ripley alike.
*Modern guns.
*Ignoring AvP as a part of franchise. What's wrong about that? For me AvP has nothing to do with Alien universe. It's a crossover. It's like Frankenstein meeting Dracula. Ridley Scott absolutely don't care about AvP. I don't care about it.

And at the end: you guys are obsessed about Neill Blomkamp's Alien project like it's gonna be great by definition :). You might be disappointed when it turns out that Covenant's gonna be better than Alien 3.2. It's just my feeling.

I think you struck nerve Ingwar..I've never seen Hicks respond with that length of a post!!! :laugh:

Nice Podcast guys keep up the good work.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM
You realize you're being picky about our "picky" opinions?  :laugh:

I do realise. And I knew you would comment on that  ;).

Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Dec 30, 2016, 11:36:36 PM
I think you struck nerve Ingwar..I've never seen Hicks respond with that length of a post!!! :laugh:

Considering the passion and dedication we have for the series and the community, I suppose I just don't like any of our issues being brushed aside as silly.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM

Quote*Tempo of the song in the trailer.

And why is that silly?

Why? Because it's just a trailer ;) Come on!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:38:47 PM

Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Dec 30, 2016, 11:36:36 PM
I think you struck nerve Ingwar..I've never seen Hicks respond with that length of a post!!! :laugh:

Considering the passion and dedication we have for the series and the community, I suppose I just don't like any of our issues being brushed aside as silly.

I know. i just had to throw in a little teasing couldn't resist. ;)

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 11:41:16 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM

Quote*Tempo of the song in the trailer.

And why is that silly?

Why? Because it's just a trailer ;) Come on!

Trailers are important. If you've got a trailer that isn't working for people then that's an issue. Could potentially affect the amount of bums that they are going to get on the seats. We want these films to be good, we want people to go and see them and for them to make more good films.

You're just being dismissive.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM

Quote*Daniels as a main female character and looking Ripley alike.

Completely legitimate concern. If every single Alien film starts to follow that template it becomes formulaic and that becomes stale and boring. Not saying Covenant is going to be stale or formulaic, but always having a female lead that survives to the end of the film becomes predictable.

As you know (according to spoilers and your source) she's not the only main character in the movie. Eventually she'll die sooner or later anyway.

She may not be the only main character but she's the main character. It'd just be nice to have our expectations be subverted and for something different to be done. You know, like Alien did.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:43:46 PM

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 11:41:16 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM

Quote*Tempo of the song in the trailer.

And why is that silly?

Why? Because it's just a trailer ;) Come on!

Trailers are important. If you've got a trailer that isn't working for people then that's an issue. Could potentially affect the amount of bums that they are going to get on the seats. We want these films to be good, we want people to go and see them and for them to make more good films.

You're just being dismissive.

You cannot make a trailer that will satisfy everyone. It's impossible. Besides, majority of people like it so it works.

And I'm not dismissive.

Prometheus' trailer did a great job of it but you're completely right, you can't please everyone. I'm not denying that. I know that full well. The Alien fanbase is such an eclectic collection of people brought to the series for all sorts of varying reasons.

And many people did like it which is great. But remember we're dedicated fans recording for other dedicated fans. If you look at our own reaction polls, you see a pretty steady flatline regarding people who loved it, were indifferent (most popular option being in the middle at good) and hated it.  So in our corner it didn't work completely.

And "so what, it's just a trailer" is dismissive.

That explains why everyone seemed a bit down  or unenthused lol that's pretty late in the morning lol I bet it is tiredness I'm hearing in your voices

Anyway I'm glad you are still looking forward to Covenant Hicks! Your concerns are understandable and i do share them as well.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:27 PM

Quote*Beauty of Alien universe is getting too complicated because of new stuff. How come? Do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

Can you be more specific? Not sure what you're trying to put criticize here?

If I'm not mistaken (it was a long podcast) one of you mentioned something about spores (probably in the first part of the podcast) and says something like: beauty of Alien movies is getting too complicated because of the new stuff. That's why I'm asking: do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

---

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:50:48 PM
And "so what, it's just a trailer" is dismissive.

I didn't mean it in that way. I have to be more specific next time. Trailer is not a movie so I don't care about it as much as probably you guys.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 11:54:00 PM
If I'm not mistaken (it was a long podcast) one of you mentioned something about spores (probably in the first part of the podcast) and says something like: beauty of Alien movies is getting too complicated because of the new stuff. That's why I'm asking: do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

Of course not as we saw with my issue with the continual stream of female leads that we get. But, it still needs to make sense doesn't it.

I just finished re-reading the Gibson script that Covenant seems to be taking inspiration from for the Neomorphs and I can't say it all seemed to be clear what was going on in regards to it. That's a bad thing. Hopefully the Neomorphs are a well thought out concept that works within the universe.

Prometheus gave us plenty of new stuff. Doesn't mean it's a good thing. AvP Requiem gave us new stuff. Doesn't make that a good film. There's not some sort of straight correlation between new and good.

Gteat podcast

From 2:08:00 where Ridgetop until the very end - touches exactly on so many of my fears and hopes for the franchise.

I love the statement about the simplicity of Alien and how it  might be lost. Even as a Prometheus fan. Alien is still the heart of the franchise.

Just listen and you will see!! 

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:48:28 PM
She may not be the only main character but she's the main character. It'd just be nice to have our expectations be subverted and for something different to be done. You know, like Alien did.

Prometheus did something different. Elizabeth Shaw is the best example. Did you expect that she won't be the main character in Prometheus sequel? I didn't. Now, getting rid of Noomi Rapace, studio want to establish new characters and there is nothing wrong about it.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:59:27 PM

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 11:54:00 PM
If I'm not mistaken (it was a long podcast) one of you mentioned something about spores (probably in the first part of the podcast) and says something like: beauty of Alien movies is getting too complicated because of the new stuff. That's why I'm asking: do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

Of course not as we saw with my issue with the continual stream of female leads that we get. But, it still needs to make sense doesn't it.

I just finished re-reading the Gibson script that Covenant seems to be taking inspiration from for the Neomorphs and I can't say it all seemed to be clear what was going on in regards to it. That's a bad thing. Hopefully the Neomorphs are a well thought out concept that works within the universe.

Prometheus have us plenty of new stuff. Doesn't mean it's a good thing. AvP Requiem gave us new stuff. Doesn't make that a good film. There's not some sort of straight correlation between new and good.

Do you happen to remember what page(s) in the script this material takes place at? All I can remember is someone having an entire Alien rip out of their body. Like they were using the host as a skin to conceal what was going on underneath.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 12:02:18 AM
Prometheus did something different. Elizabeth Shaw is the best example. Did you expect that she won't be the main character in Prometheus sequel? I didn't. Now, getting rid of Noomi Rapace, studio want to establish new characters and there is nothing wrong about it.

It's still the same template. No, she's not a Ripley clone - which I'm happy about - but she's the same basic setup. Yet another female lead, going through some tough ordeals and coming out at the end. Just mix it up a little. Surprise me!

I'll agree with you about not seeing her not returning. I didn't know what to expect for the Prometheus sequel. And neither did the studio know what they were doing with a Prometheus sequel for a long time.

As much as I'm hoping Daniels isn't a Ripley clone and I'm not condemning her as one either. I'm glad we're rid of Shaw though. I really didn't like her character.

---

Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 31, 2016, 12:03:16 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2016, 11:59:27 PM

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 11:54:00 PM
If I'm not mistaken (it was a long podcast) one of you mentioned something about spores (probably in the first part of the podcast) and says something like: beauty of Alien movies is getting too complicated because of the new stuff. That's why I'm asking: do you want to see the same stuff all the same?

Of course not as we saw with my issue with the continual stream of female leads that we get. But, it still needs to make sense doesn't it.

I just finished re-reading the Gibson script that Covenant seems to be taking inspiration from for the Neomorphs and I can't say it all seemed to be clear what was going on in regards to it. That's a bad thing. Hopefully the Neomorphs are a well thought out concept that works within the universe.

Prometheus have us plenty of new stuff. Doesn't mean it's a good thing. AvP Requiem gave us new stuff. Doesn't make that a good film. There's not some sort of straight correlation between new and good.

Do you happen to remember what page(s) in the script this material takes place at? All I can remember is someone having an entire Alien rip out of their body. Like they were using the host as a skin to conceal what was going on underneath.

Pretty much the whole script, echo. They're basically tinkering with the Alien DNA. The UPP grow a chestburster that is faster, stronger, etc. The Anchorpoint folk grow some sort of strain that has an egg that emits spores which cause people to mutate into Aliens that burst out of their skin. The first bursting happens around page 50.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 31, 2016, 12:06:46 AM

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 12:02:18 AM
Prometheus did something different. Elizabeth Shaw is the best example. Did you expect that she won't be the main character in Prometheus sequel? I didn't. Now, getting rid of Noomi Rapace, studio want to establish new characters and there is nothing wrong about it.

It's still the same template. No, she's not a Ripley clone - which I'm happy about - but she's the same basic setup. Yet another female lead, going through some tough ordeals and coming out at the end. Just mix it up a little. Surprise me!

I'll agree with you about not seeing her not returning. I didn't know what to expect for the Prometheus sequel. And neither did the studio know what they were doing with a Prometheus sequel for a long time.

As much as I'm hoping Daniels isn't a Ripley clone and I'm not condemning her as one either. I'm glad we're rid of Shaw though. I really didn't like her character.

Changing protagonist's sex from female to male doesn't change a lot. I'm not bothered about it. But you're right, it's the same template but it depends on how it's gonna be executed.

Please, can you tell me who was the main character (sex and full name) in Alien: Isolation? ;D Did you enjoy it? I know you did!

I don't think Daniel's a Ripley clone and I agree regarding Shaw. Didn't like her especially that religious nonsense.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 12:17:28 AM
Changing protagonist's sex from female to male doesn't change a lot. I'm not bothered about it. But you're right, it's the same template but it depends on how it's gonna be executed.

I'm not saying it's as simple as just changing the gender. And spot on, execution is vital. Which is why something like different character arcs and fates could be important. Like I said, subvert our expectations. If you're happy with the same old, that's fine.  ;)

QuotePlease, can you tell me who was the main character (sex and full name) in Alien: Isolation? ;D Did you enjoy it? I know you did!

Too right I did. As we agreed to above, execution is key. Despite her surname, her journey was different and her character was great. She wasn't a clone of her mother. I was very dubious of her inclusion to start with but thankfully she was a great ride. Can't wait to find out what happened to her.

(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/d3/5c/1d/9d/4cc7/458f/89b8/34282de13aa2/alien-1gif.gif?rect=0,0,688,345&w=688&auto=format&gifq=35)

(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/cc/d9/f4/98/bfe2/483b/82f9/b4f3d48fdeb6/alien-covenant-gif.gif?rect=65,0,628,314&w=628&auto=format&gifq=35)

Still not completely sure if this is just a spineburster
or transformation...

I made the comment about the "beauty of the Alien is the simplicity of it."

Perhaps I should have elaborated better. I was specifically talking about the Aliens themselves rather than the universe as a whole. Granted, no, I don't expect them to always remain the same, the additions we had in the past were small but made sense. The warrior, the queen, the DNA reflex, those were new elements that gave the Aliens further depth but didn't go too far to the point of changing their identity. They've always given the impression of being a living parasitic weapon, but if you change them around so much that they are born of mutation, or a pathogen, their identity as a species just becomes an arbitrary plot device. So yeah, I want new things in relation to the Xenomorph, but not taken to such a point where they don't have their own identity.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 10:47:27 PM
*Shape of the Covenant ship. Seriously?

Still need to listen to this episode, but like Hicks said, we recorded it super-late! :) If it was me, I think I was just making an observation about how it should look like it was carrying infrastructure, but I think Hicks pointed out a possible reason for that. It's pretty trivial. Sorry if it came across as more meaningful than that!

Quote*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.

Totally legitimate concern, precisely because 'Prometheus' did not address it in anything other than a schoolboy fantasy manner: Holloway, who's not just a scientist, but surrounded by his peers, decides he wants to remove his helmet just beause he can. Then not only did he do this, but all the others did, too - including Shaw, who was the main one warning him not to.

Being as this was one of the major criticisms of this film's predecessor, yes, the possibility of this being a pattern is worrying, because if it is, it indicates Scott really hasn't bothered to take note of his previous film's criticisms.

'Star Trek' is relevant, precisely because that's the very portrayal of the future which the 'Alien' films were always set in contrast against. They felt more grounded. 'Star Trek' had transport space magic which could just 'beam-clean' any pathogens out of you. Stepping out of a dropship doesn't have that luxury... These characters should know better and the trailer even has one of the film's own characters point this out: "We don't know what the f**k's out there!"

Not unlike Shaw warning Holloway and doing the same thing, herself, no?

This is the biggest concern: Has Scott bothered to acknowledge the flaws of 'Prometheus and improve upon them or will this be more of the same? Will we get something where characters act just as idiotically as those of 2012 did? If there's one thing 'Prometheus' got it in the neck for, it was how moronic all the crew of 'experts' were.



I honestly hope this won't be a repeat performance of that! But one can't help but take notice of 'red flag' moments... It's not like there aren't inventive ways to tear through a protective suit and infect an exploring character.

Quote*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.

I think I brought that up, yeah, but also said we don't know the full context. Ribs seem like they'd be easier to crack an exit point out of than ripping apart an entire spinal column, sure. I also speculated that maybe the reson is that the guy's spine, itself, has mutated into something which is ripping free. Who knows? We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Quote*Tempo of the song in the trailer.

Think that was me, again. :) I got what it was trying to do, but it honestly felt too fantasy-like and graceful. Hicks felt differently! The fan-made recut uses the 'Prometheus' trailer music and I honestly feel that was infinitely better for tempo. Compare them both and see which one puts you in the mood better.

QuoteAnd at the end: you guys are obsessed about Neill Blomkamp's Alien project like it's gonna be great by definition :). You might be disappointed when it turns out that Covenant's gonna be better than Alien 3.2. It's just my feeling.

I plead innocent! :laugh: That was me thinking up a general talking point: How do we feel the fandom will respond if this is ultimately received like 'Prometheus' largely was? Not which one we might personally prefer. We can't judge that. It's just a hypothetical. Sometimes it's interesting to just debate how the fans, themselves, might look at and react to stuff.

Didn't Holloway realize that the cave had an oxygen source though? I haven't watched it in awhile so I can't remember for sure. But yeah, I don't want another Millburn and Fifield sequences of events that lead to complete idiocy.

Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 31, 2016, 01:57:05 AM

Didn't Holloway realize that the cave had an oxygen source though? I haven't watched it in awhile so I can't remember for sure. But yeah, I don't want another Millburn and Fifield sequences of events that lead to complete idiocy.

Agreed as far as Millburn and Fifield go. As far as breathable air, the planet was still unstudied so they would have no idea what sort of pathogens they would be exposing themselves to by removing their helmets, especially in an environment built by an Alien race. 

Blame Alien 3 for everything!  LOL ;D

Just finished listening to this.  Once again, thanks for putting this together for the fans.  It was quite a good discussion.

One thing seems to be omitted in most discussions on the film though.  It's that the forest looks exactly like an earth forest.  It isn't Alien.  It's bad enough that we are not getting that Giger-world landscape that fans have wanted to see for years, but if you're not going to do that, at least try to make the vegetation look unique.  This literally feels like the astronauts traveled millions of miles only to end up in New Zealand.  I understand that the source of life in a post-Prometheus Alien universe implies that the alien trees and earth trees would have the same source, but come on!  That at the very least feels like a cop-out.  James Cameron's Avatar did things right in this regard.  The vegetation for the most part does look real.

Happy New Year folks!

whats the size of this mp3 file?,.... first have to c if i got enought data to download. .else i will get it at a later stage. .

Around 150mb.

Favourite part for me was Hicks screaming "Bullshit!" twice before Ridgetop even finished explaining the rumours.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 31, 2016, 05:34:31 AM
Blame Alien 3 for everything!  LOL ;D

Someone said. Alien 3 gets in the neck every time. LOL

Its true what you guys said about Covenant and how it will affect the rest of the franchise or rather the future the franchise as it will determine whether or not fans will want Blomkamp's alien 5 and fox decides to can the prequel series.

And then no engineer revelations and only mystery destroyed.

I was surprised and thought you guys would be drooling over the prospect of seeing the original xenomorph on screen for the first time since 1979 . LOL.
Are you gents excited for it?

Prometheus 2.0 and the concern that Scott did not heed advice or learn from the faults of Prometheus ......that is CONCERNING.

QuoteBeing as this was one of the major criticisms of this film's predecessor, yes, the possibility of this being a pattern is worrying, because if it is, it indicates Scott really hasn't bothered to take note of his previous film's criticisms.

I always found the 'ZOMG they took their helmets off' thing very nitpicky.

There's an announcement when they get back to the ship about decontaminating and you see Shaw et al getting decontaminated in the lift after David rescues her and Charlie.  Chance voices concerns about contracting something after Charlie gets sick and saying they all had their helmets off.  Ultimately it's completely irrelevant to the story - the contamination  isn't airborne.

Might be different this around if the trailer is anything to by, however.

Thanks for answers Xenomorphine! :)

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 31, 2016, 01:50:49 AM

Quote*Lack of protective suits on Paradise. They will address that for sure. If not, then look at Star Trek or Star Wars.

Totally legitimate concern, precisely because 'Prometheus' did not address it in anything other than a schoolboy fantasy manner: Holloway, who's not just a scientist, but surrounded by his peers, decides he wants to remove his helmet just beause he can. Then not only did he do this, but all the others did, too - including Shaw, who was the main one warning him not to.

Being as this was one of the major criticisms of this film's predecessor, yes, the possibility of this being a pattern is worrying, because if it is, it indicates Scott really hasn't bothered to take note of his previous film's criticisms.

'Star Trek' is relevant, precisely because that's the very portrayal of the future which the 'Alien' films were always set in contrast against. They felt more grounded. 'Star Trek' had transport space magic which could just 'beam-clean' any pathogens out of you. Stepping out of a dropship doesn't have that luxury... These characters should know better and the trailer even has one of the film's own characters point this out: "We don't know what the f**k's out there!"

Not unlike Shaw warning Holloway and doing the same thing, herself, no?

This is the biggest concern: Has Scott bothered to acknowledge the flaws of 'Prometheus and improve upon them or will this be more of the same? Will we get something where characters act just as idiotically as those of 2012 did? If there's one thing 'Prometheus' got it in the neck for, it was how moronic all the crew of 'experts' were.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.collider.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F06%2Falien-covenant-ridley-scott-michael-fassbender.jpg&hash=6c834835cf675f7a969fd588d5261462fd6bd8ef)

Study this picture. Walter is in the centre and Carmen Ejogo is on the right which means it's probably mission briefing before shuttle lands on the planet because apparently

Spoiler

Ejogo's character dies while shuttle is destroyed (as we can see in the trailer)

[close]

Look at the helmet. It belongs to space suit. I assume they discuss that matter on the briefing. It's just my premonition.

And the last thing. According to spoiler

Spoiler

Covenant receives signal from the planet which is nothing else than a song from Earth. Who else than human being would sing the song? Maybe they take if for granted than it's safe to land without spacesuits? Time will tell.

[close]

---

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 31, 2016, 01:50:49 AM

Quote*Backburster issue. Quote from the podcast: It's not the most logical place for thing to rip out off. Why not? Neomorph is not a Xenomorph. Besides, let's be honest: it's utterly impossible for foreign body to grow inside you without earliest symptoms which means that chestburster scene in Alien is impossible because Kane would have known long before that something was going on. It's scientifically inaccurate. Do I care? Of course not. It's sci-fi movie.

I think I brought that up, yeah, but also said we don't know the full context. Ribs seem like they'd be easier to crack an exit point out of than ripping apart an entire spinal column, sure. I also speculated that maybe the reson is that the guy's spine, itself, has mutated into something which is ripping free. Who knows? We'll have to wait and see what happens.

According to media report Neomorph's got two spies on its back, so I assume that baby alien rips through his spine, pushing it forward which looks like its some kind of mutation but it's not. Besides, baby neomorph doesn't know which way to set itself free. It does it randomly.

Spoiler

We gonna have throatburster as well.

[close]

---

Quote from: RidgeTop on Dec 31, 2016, 12:51:45 AM
I made the comment about the "beauty of the Alien is the simplicity of it."

Perhaps I should have elaborated better. I was specifically talking about the Aliens themselves rather than the universe as a whole. Granted, no, I don't expect them to always remain the same, the additions we had in the past were small but made sense. The warrior, the queen, the DNA reflex, those were new elements that gave the Aliens further depth but didn't go too far to the point of changing their identity. They've always given the impression of being a living parasitic weapon, but if you change them around so much that they are born of mutation, or a pathogen, their identity as a species just becomes an arbitrary plot device. So yeah, I want new things in relation to the Xenomorph, but not taken to such a point where they don't have their own identity.

I really like idea of expanding the universe. I want new things in relation to Xenomorphs but Neomorphs are different type of Aliens (infection is different and the way they release from the host). There is no conflict regarding plot device. Besides, look at Queen in Aliens. Some fans don't like idea of the hive and that she lays egg.

Enjoyed that podcast, thanks.

It's long but there is a good discussion and I appreciate the detail you guys go into.  I think it's fairly balanced overall and I think many of us share the same concerns that you raise.

First time visitor of the site. I loved the podcast and the thought provoking discussion. There are a lot of great theories out there that can be expanded upon.

I've been a fan of the Alien series since my dad showed me the films as a kid and they haunted my nightmares. I really do care about the franchise and for selfish reasons I want the film to do well so they make more.

I'm excited for covenant and I look forward to more discussion regarding upcoming information and trailer releases.

Thank you guys.

Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 12:49:04 AM
(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/d3/5c/1d/9d/4cc7/458f/89b8/34282de13aa2/alien-1gif.gif?rect=0,0,688,345&w=688&auto=format&gifq=35)

(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/cc/d9/f4/98/bfe2/483b/82f9/b4f3d48fdeb6/alien-covenant-gif.gif?rect=65,0,628,314&w=628&auto=format&gifq=35)

Still not completely sure if this is just a spineburster
or transformation...

It's definitely Neomorph ripping of his spine and pushing it out so it looks like transformation but it's not it.

Doesn't the whole spine with the neomorph attached end up on the floor and then the neomorph starts flailing about? Nasty!

How could David have made

Spoiler

Shaw make distress signal??

[close]

The series is so f**ked up now, honestly I would just like them to start over from scratch. 

Quote from: RidgeTop on Dec 31, 2016, 02:16:50 AM
Agreed as far as Millburn and Fifield go. As far as breathable air, the planet was still unstudied so they would have no idea what sort of pathogens they would be exposing themselves to by removing their helmets, especially in an environment built by an Alien race.

As Ridgetop says, there could have been anything in the atmosphere. It's not just about chemical composition.

But it was also about them knowing they could have been infecting their environment.

Here, it's even more obvious, because they clearly know the place has vegetation. They know some kind of life is definitely around. They'd be aware that, even if no animal organisms are present, plants can be dangerous. Hell, we're shown what amounts to fungal infection taking place in this footage! :)

It might be that none of these characters are scientists, this time around (even if the David 8 clone should have basic quarantine procedures uploaded), but even a military grunt would have strict protocols to follow on a world like that. It might not have been a big plot point in 'Prometheus', but it still served to make the characters look like idiots.

Honestly, I think it would have worked better if we saw some kind of thorny tendrils lash out and tear through someone's suit or needle-sharp projectiles impale someone's breathing hose. Something aggressive, even if the victim would remain oblivious until they got back.

The Covenant crew might be under the impression that "paradise" is just a secret terraformed planet (created by humans) and that the "strange signal" comes from an old Weyland research station that is in trouble.
From above they examine and find breathable air, lots of absolutely earth-like forests.... the buildings they see might be confused with human settlements, etc..
In short, they have no idea about "Engineers", their Paradise or the Prometheus expedition..
So they just land, assume that everything is fine with the local earth-like fauna/flora and immediately try to find the signal's source.
"maybe it's just a busted communications tower" and they think they can help.

I think that's the easiest way to explain away the lack of special hazard suits.

Quote from: skhellter on Dec 31, 2016, 05:16:36 PM
The covenant crew might be under the impression that "paradise" is just a secret terraformed planet (created by humans) and that the "strange signal" comes from an old Weyland research station that is in trouble.
From above they examine and find breathable air, lots of absolutely earth-like forests.... the buildings they see might be confused with human settlements, etc..
In short, they have no idea about "Engineers", their Paradise or the Prometheus expedition..
So they just land, assume that everything is fine with the local earth-like fauna/flora and immediately try to find the signal's source.
I think that's the easiest way to explain away the lack of special hazard suits.

Agree but at the end we cannot judge that based upon the trailer. It might be somehow addressed in the movie. We just have to wait.

Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 05:28:09 PM

Quote from: skhellter on Dec 31, 2016, 05:16:36 PM
The covenant crew might be under the impression that "paradise" is just a secret terraformed planet (created by humans) and that the "strange signal" comes from an old Weyland research station that is in trouble.
From above they examine and find breathable air, lots of absolutely earth-like forests.... the buildings they see might be confused with human settlements, etc..
In short, they have no idea about "Engineers", their Paradise or the Prometheus expedition..
So they just land, assume that everything is fine with the local earth-like fauna/flora and immediately try to find the signal's source.
I think that's the easiest way to explain away the lack of special hazard suits.

Agree but at the end we cannot judge that based upon the trailer. It might be somehow addressed in the movie. We just have to wait.

Agreed. I highly doubt it goes unaddressed in the film, as silly as the explanation might be.

It is interesting that the Covenant appears to be a colonization ship. Besides the crew there are hundreds if not thousands of colonists on board-correct?

Quote from: rabidranger on Dec 31, 2016, 09:56:40 PM
It is interesting that the Covenant appears to be a colonization ship. Besides the crew there are hundreds if not thousands of colonists on board-correct?

Correct.

Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 09:47:26 PM
Agreed. I highly doubt it goes unaddressed in the film, as silly as the explanation might be.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

Quote from: rabidranger on Dec 31, 2016, 09:56:40 PM
It is interesting that the Covenant appears to be a colonization ship. Besides the crew there are hundreds if not thousands of colonists on board-correct?

Yes. It would seem only some of the crew are awakened earlier than planned?

. .well if it's not explained in the movie. .is it really gonna keep u guys up at night?. .i mean personally i would think that it was not clever on their part either. But it's not gonna spoil the  entire movie for me. .i am not gonna suddenly jump up and leave the cinema. .i mean they have to get infected somehow. .sure you could have some tendril plant ripping thrue fabrick. . Then you might as well have walking trees. . I mean who's gonna land on that planet?

Quote from: juxtapose on Jan 01, 2017, 06:15:02 AM
. .well if it's not explained in the movie. .is it really gonna keep u guys up at night?

YES!!!!!!

. .well i sincerely hope that they offer an explanation then. .insomnia aint fun. .lol

While I feel like David creating the Alien is a terrible idea, if they detach the series from AVP, it would be very intentional.  Just look at Star Wars.  The EU was huge, but only a very small portion of it was any good.  The Alien/Predator/AVP EU is already very convoluted and contradictory.  Restarting and streamlining what is canon would be a very good thing.  Am I the only one who doesn't want the Blomkamp film?  He's a terrible storyteller.  Great visual eye, but if he writes it, it will suck.  He basically always tells the same story.

Regarding taking helmets off in Prometheus.

[as they reach an area of the structure that has water streaming down and the sun shining through the open ceiling]
Charlie Holloway: Look at this!
Elizabeth Shaw: Oh, Charlie!
Ford: Jesus! Sun light's heating the water. Check out the humidity.
Charlie Holloway: Yeah, look at the CO2 levels. Outside it's completely toxic and in...in here, there's nothing. It's breathable.
[as Holloway prepares to take off his helmet]
Elizabeth Shaw: What are you doing? Charlie, don't be an idiot!
Charlie Holloway: Hey, don't be a skeptic. Right? There's something generating an atmosphere. David?
David: Dr. Holloway is correct.
Ford: Cleaner than earth, actually.
Charlie Holloway: They were terraforming here!
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't do...
Charlie Holloway: Look, Eli...
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't!
Charlie Holloway: Eli, I'm not wearing this thing anymore! Wish me luck, babe.
[he takes off his helmet, takes a large breath of the air and laughs]
Elizabeth Shaw: You crazy bastard!

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 01, 2017, 10:00:59 PM
Regarding taking helmets off in Prometheus.

[as they reach an area of the structure that has water streaming down and the sun shining through the open ceiling]
Charlie Holloway: Look at this!
Elizabeth Shaw: Oh, Charlie!
Ford: Jesus! Sun light's heating the water. Check out the humidity.
Charlie Holloway: Yeah, look at the CO2 levels. Outside it's completely toxic and in...in here, there's nothing. It's breathable.
[as Holloway prepares to take off his helmet]
Elizabeth Shaw: What are you doing? Charlie, don't be an idiot!
Charlie Holloway: Hey, don't be a skeptic. Right? There's something generating an atmosphere. David?
David: Dr. Holloway is correct.
Ford: Cleaner than earth, actually.
Charlie Holloway: They were terraforming here!
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't do...
Charlie Holloway: Look, Eli...
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't!
Charlie Holloway: Eli, I'm not wearing this thing anymore! Wish me luck, babe.
[he takes off his helmet, takes a large breath of the air and laughs]
Elizabeth Shaw: You crazy bastard!

That might have been enough for some to buy scientists making that kind of decision after a few sentences, but for plenty of audiences it was not. It was one of the main issues Prometheus was mocked on.

at 0:40
https://youtu.be/RBaKqOMGPWc?t=40s

at 0:54
https://youtu.be/-BWnTW4rL0U?t=54s

Again, all they could see was basic atmospheric content, they had no idea what kind of pathogens might be present in that environment.

First time listening to the podcast; interesting stuff...

@RidgeTop

1. Every epic Sci-Fi movie (Star Trek, Star Wars, Terminator, Alien series and so on) contain scientific inaccuracies. Even the recent ones like Gravity, Interstellar and The Martian are flawed on that field. Am I bothered? Not at all. You cannot take Sci-Fi movies too seriously because you wouldn't enjoy them at all.

2. Charlie Holloway doesn't take his helmet off on LV-223 surface. If he did that he would have been dead, like Ford says during the landing: Only if you're breathing through an exhaust pipe. CO2 is over 3 percent. Two minutes without a suit, you're dead. He does take his helmet off being inside Engineer pyramid knowing that the air (result of terraforming) is cleaner than Earth's one. It's a minor scene in the movie. Its explanation is sufficient enough. Besides, sometimes you have to sacrifice scientific accuracy and rational characters behaviour for a sake of the story itself. Deal with it. Charlie takes his helmet off? Not a big deal. Main protagonist in Interstellar enters the black hole and ... survives. Try to beat that :).

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 02, 2017, 10:40:24 PM
@RidgeTop

1. Every epic Sci-Fi movie (Star Trek, Star Wars, Terminator, Alien series and so on) contain scientific inaccuracies. Even the recent ones like Gravity, Interstellar and The Martian are flawed on that field. Am I bothered? Not at all. You cannot take Sci-Fi movies too seriously because you wouldn't enjoy them at all.

2. Charlie Holloway doesn't take his helmet off on LV-223 surface. If he did that he would have been dead, like Ford says during the landing: Only if you're breathing through an exhaust pipe. CO2 is over 3 percent. Two minutes without a suit, you're dead. He does take his helmet off being inside Engineer pyramid knowing that the air (result of terraforming) is cleaner than Earth's one. It's a minor scene in the movie. Its explanation is sufficient enough. Besides, sometimes you have to sacrifice scientific accuracy and rational characters behaviour for a sake of the story itself. Deal with it. Charlie takes his helmet off? Not a big deal. Main protagonist in Interstellar enters the black hole and ... survives. Try to beat that :).

Exactly...What kind of movie would it be if we had to watch them shamble around in hazmat suits for 90% of the movie...

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief).

Quote from: anduu on Jan 02, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
Exactly...What kind of movie would it be if we had to watch them shamble around in hazmat suits for 90% of the movie...

Good like 2001?

90% like 2001?

Some people ignore the fiction part in science fiction.

Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2017, 11:43:40 PM
90% like 2001?

Well if you want to go there...


I just quickly skimmed through 2001...they spend maybe 20% of the film in full suits so there is that...

Sounds more accurate.

Love the podcast, really gets me through the night shift. Pleased to hear my concerns of David creating the Alien being voiced in this podcast. But I get the feeling this will probably be the outcome of Covenant. A few people might ask why? Why would David create a creature that could wipe out human life? To which I say,
"Doesn't every child want their parents dead?"

Before I give it a listen, how spoilery is it?

Quote from: Godzillakuj94 on Jan 03, 2017, 06:14:29 AM
Before I give it a listen, how spoilery is it?

Somewhat. The majority of the podcast is us speculating, but we do talk about some potentially spoiler-ish rumors.

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 02, 2017, 10:40:24 PM
@RidgeTop

1. Every epic Sci-Fi movie (Star Trek, Star Wars, Terminator, Alien series and so on) contain scientific inaccuracies. Even the recent ones like Gravity, Interstellar and The Martian are flawed on that field. Am I bothered? Not at all. You cannot take Sci-Fi movies too seriously because you wouldn't enjoy them at all.

2. Charlie Holloway doesn't take his helmet off on LV-223 surface. If he did that he would have been dead, like Ford says during the landing: Only if you're breathing through an exhaust pipe. CO2 is over 3 percent. Two minutes without a suit, you're dead. He does take his helmet off being inside Engineer pyramid knowing that the air (result of terraforming) is cleaner than Earth's one. It's a minor scene in the movie. Its explanation is sufficient enough. Besides, sometimes you have to sacrifice scientific accuracy and rational characters behaviour for a sake of the story itself. Deal with it. Charlie takes his helmet off? Not a big deal. Main protagonist in Interstellar enters the black hole and ... survives. Try to beat that :).

Logical fallacies and difficult to buy scenarios should not always be forgiven simply because a movie is a movie. This highly depends on the franchise or series, as Star Wars is equal part fantasy as it is Science Fiction. Alien has always been depicted as very hard sci-fi, so the standard for suspension of disbelief is higher. This is evident in the very first film when Ripley refuses to let the captain of the ship aboard in accordance with quarantine procedure. She's essentially a space trucker, and even she is highly concerned about infection due to protocol. The scientists in Prometheus couldn't care less it would seem, as is evidenced by far more than just the helmet-removal scene.

It's fine if Prometheus was plausible enough in all its scenarios for you, but that's like, your opinion, man. How the scientists acted was a common point of criticism among critics and audiences, however, and I'd simply like the filmmakers to learn from what I considered the missteps of Prometheus. I don't hate the film, and as I noted in the podcast it's actually grown on me over time, but I'm certainly not the only one who sees its many flaws.

Yeah, it's a bullshit argument to say "It's Science Fiction, people can act like idiots for no reason."

What's more interesting, people acting like idiots and bad things happening to them... Or people being smart, and bad things still happen?

Alien at least used the idea of quarantine and isolation as a source of drama between characters, and it didn't leave Dallas looking completely stupid for it either.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jan 03, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Some people ignore the fiction part in science fiction.

I would argue that most people seem to ignore the science part in science fiction.

well Vickers fried holloway because she was scared he might infect the crew. . .ok he also asked her to do it. .she probably would have toasted him anyway. . So at least she had more intelligence than the majority of the crew and ripley might have acted in a similar fashion in that same scenario. . Seeing as she also did'nt want a infected crew member onboard. .

QuoteAlien at least used the idea of quarantine and isolation as a source of drama between characters, and it didn't leave Dallas looking completely stupid for it either.

They had quarantine and decontamination in Prometheus.

. .and just to add what i said about vickers earlier. .it was a good decition on her part to fry holloway. .perhaps not so clever of her to run in a straight line most would argue. .but personally if i was in her shoes i think i would do the same. .their huge chunks of burning shit falling left, right and center, plus the ship can't roll on forever. .it has to lose momentum. .if she did not stumble and fall she might have survived, it came to a standstill shortly after crushing her. .if shaw knew what her fate in covenant was gonna be she probably would not have even bothered running. . Asuming she does die in covenant ofcause. .

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 01, 2017, 10:00:59 PM
Regarding taking helmets off in Prometheus.

[as they reach an area of the structure that has water streaming down and the sun shining through the open ceiling]
Charlie Holloway: Look at this!
Elizabeth Shaw: Oh, Charlie!
Ford: Jesus! Sun light's heating the water. Check out the humidity.
Charlie Holloway: Yeah, look at the CO2 levels. Outside it's completely toxic and in...in here, there's nothing. It's breathable.
[as Holloway prepares to take off his helmet]
Elizabeth Shaw: What are you doing? Charlie, don't be an idiot!
Charlie Holloway: Hey, don't be a skeptic. Right? There's something generating an atmosphere. David?
David: Dr. Holloway is correct.
Ford: Cleaner than earth, actually.
Charlie Holloway: They were terraforming here!
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't do...
Charlie Holloway: Look, Eli...
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't!
Charlie Holloway: Eli, I'm not wearing this thing anymore! Wish me luck, babe.
[he takes off his helmet, takes a large breath of the air and laughs]
Elizabeth Shaw: You crazy bastard!

I'd completely forgot about that dialogue. That's just about good enough for me. Would have been nice for some specific comment about toxins and pathogens and etc though. With how much of Covenant seems to be course correcting following Prometheus, I'm sure it'd be something he's taken note of.

Quoteperhaps not so clever of her to run in a straight line most would argue.

Most inexplicably miss her and Shaw making a left turn while running away and not, in fact, running in a straight line.

I always noticed that they turned left and was baffled by all the reactions online.

Quote from: skhellter on Dec 31, 2016, 05:16:36 PM
The Covenant crew might be under the impression that "paradise" is just a secret terraformed planet (created by humans) and that the "strange signal" comes from an old Weyland research station that is in trouble.
From above they examine and find breathable air, lots of absolutely earth-like forests.... the buildings they see might be confused with human settlements, etc..
In short, they have no idea about "Engineers", their Paradise or the Prometheus expedition..
So they just land, assume that everything is fine with the local earth-like fauna/flora and immediately try to find the signal's source.
"maybe it's just a busted communications tower" and they think they can help.

I think that's the easiest way to explain away the lack of special hazard suits.

Which makes them look even more stupid because they didn't bother to confirm and verify before putting all their lives at risk (plus those back at base, who they'd be in danger of infecting - and who shouldn't even let them back on board, if following basic scientific protocol).

All of this is pretty bizarre when you remember how Ripley, 'Alien', addressed this precise issue as only causing problems if people didn't follow the kind of training even space-going tug jockeys are getting. :)

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 01, 2017, 10:00:59 PM
Regarding taking helmets off in Prometheus.

[as they reach an area of the structure that has water streaming down and the sun shining through the open ceiling]
Charlie Holloway: Look at this!
Elizabeth Shaw: Oh, Charlie!
Ford: Jesus! Sun light's heating the water. Check out the humidity.
Charlie Holloway: Yeah, look at the CO2 levels. Outside it's completely toxic and in...in here, there's nothing. It's breathable.
[as Holloway prepares to take off his helmet]
Elizabeth Shaw: What are you doing? Charlie, don't be an idiot!
Charlie Holloway: Hey, don't be a skeptic. Right? There's something generating an atmosphere. David?
David: Dr. Holloway is correct.
Ford: Cleaner than earth, actually.
Charlie Holloway: They were terraforming here!
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't do...
Charlie Holloway: Look, Eli...
Elizabeth Shaw: Please, don't!
Charlie Holloway: Eli, I'm not wearing this thing anymore! Wish me luck, babe.
[he takes off his helmet, takes a large breath of the air and laughs]
Elizabeth Shaw: You crazy bastard!

Again, that's just referring to chemical composition, not what might be living down there. It also meant they weren't even thinking of their own bacteria/etcetera contaminating their surroundings. Holloway was bad enough, but then they all go and do it - including Shaw, who was the one character pointing out it was against basic scientific (and archeological) protocols.

Real scientists had a lot of problems with how badly that film misrepresented their fields. Some of their criticism is heard here (along with constructive suggestion for how the various inaccuracies could have simply been fixed)

Quote from: anduu on Jan 02, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
Exactly...What kind of movie would it be if we had to watch them shamble around in hazmat suits for 90% of the movie...

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief).

The Nostromo crew did it - as did the Prometheus crew, for a while. If anything, I'd argue it made those scenes a little more tense, not less.

Besides, they'd have clear visors, just like in 'Prometheus'. It's not like the audience would find it mysterious to identify which actor is speaking.

@Xenomorphine

Scientists can easily destroy any Sci-Fi movie.

Quote from: SM on Jan 03, 2017, 08:50:11 AM
They had quarantine and decontamination in Prometheus.

I didn't say they didn't. I'm saying Alien made use of it in an effective way. In Prometheus it's like "you shouldn't do that." "Oh well! WOOOOO!!!"

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 03, 2017, 09:29:34 PM
@Xenomorphine

Scientists can easily destroy any Sci-Fi movie.

That's because it's science fiction.  Almost fantasy.  We don't have the technology to go to other planets yet, plus lots of other things, hence speculative, future mythology.  Asking for realism is a bit of a tall order.  Even 2001:  A Space Odyssey is not that realistic.

LoL! This video is really stupid. Prometheus is an SF film, not a scientific documentary or a molecular biology course.

Yes the microbiological aspect is completely evaded as in 100% of SF films or air is breathable.

ALL SF films can be scientifically criticizing. Avatar, Terminator, Star Wars, Star Trek even Interstellar. Oddly nobody is shocked when guys easy comes into a black hole, or the guy move the books in a parallel world. It's amazingly scientific.
And then let's talk about avatar. It is not normal that the Na'Vi have strangely like us 2 arms, 2 legs, articulated fingersa head with 2 eyes, ears, nose, hair, skeleton ... Strange that the evolution is radically identical to ours.

It is true that Prometheus has some lack of writing, notably in Shaw's arguments to justify the mission.

It would have been so much easier for the scenario that Shaw found on earth monolithic engineers indicating the position of LV 423 via a hologram rather than cave paintings. The viewer would have more easily accepted and asked less questions.

For me Prometheus remains a very good film that leaves little clue behind him regarding the origin of xenormorph and that is what is essential.

That was exhaustive, if not exhausting;  ;D Good job. I've seen the Apocalypse Destroying Angels book. It actually captures some sense of the original Giger artwork and retains the Lovecraftian aspect of the Alien and Space Jockey. In a lot of ways, all that would have been fine as basis for a movie. Instead, we have Prometheus and Covenant. I'm not happy that David is any way connected to making the Alien. Evidence indicates he will be. Even if he's using Engineer tech to do it, I don't like it. I like the idea that the derelict is ancient, and the creatures are from some far-flung corner of the universe. But we get what we get. The trouble is, Covenant does not have to be good to spawn more movies. It has to make a big pile of money. If it does that, more will films will be made. If it is visually stimulating and well-marketed, it can be very average and still make money.

Best remove that link.

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 04, 2017, 02:37:55 AM
That was exhaustive, if not exhausting;  ;D Good job. I've seen the Apocalypse Destroying Angels book. It actually captures some sense of the original Giger artwork and retains the Lovecraftian aspect of the Alien and Space Jockey. In a lot of ways, all that would have been fine as basis for a movie.

I plan on doing a podcast covering that series at some point (and talking about the similarities to Prometheus). Destroying Angels is the main reason I even got into the Expanded Universe and a series I love very much.

It's probably no accident it was called Apocalypse, what with it being a take on Heart of Darkness.

I've seen the film but I never got around to reading the book, despite buying it. It's in that ever growing pile of books to read.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jan 04, 2017, 01:00:36 AM

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 03, 2017, 09:29:34 PM
@Xenomorphine

Scientists can easily destroy any Sci-Fi movie.

That's because it's science fiction.  Almost fantasy.  We don't have the technology to go to other planets yet, plus lots of other things, hence speculative, future mythology.  Asking for realism is a bit of a tall order.  Even 2001:  A Space Odyssey is not that realistic.

I totally agree. I wrote that sentence (Scientists can easily destroy any Sci-Fi movie) regarding to what Xenomorphine had written about Prometheus crew taking their helmets off. Some Sci-Fi movies contain more science than fiction where some are almost utter fiction. Not without a reason Star Wars is called space opera or fairy tale in space (it's marriage between Sci-Fi and fantasy when you think about it).

Quote from: SM on Jan 04, 2017, 09:06:00 AM
It's probably no accident it was called Apocalypse, what with it being a take on Heart of Darkness.

Now that you mention Heart of Darkness, I see the parallels. I've read the story and seen Apocalypse Now more than once. It's all the more appropriate when you factor in the hints of Conrad in Alien.

---

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2017, 08:51:31 AM
I plan on doing a podcast covering that series at some point (and talking about the similarities to Prometheus). Destroying Angels is the main reason I even got into the Expanded Universe and a series I love very much.

I'll look forward to that.

Stop whining peeps Prometheus is great! Long live Ridley Scott!

Prometheus is great.  For sure.

Yup. Prometheus is amazing.

I want to add something about the backburster: After watching more, I do not think the creature is bursting through the spine and ribs like a chestburster. I agree with the idea that the creature has somehow absorbed or grafted the victim's spine and ribs into its structure, that it is going to emerge similar in size to the bambi-burster and with possibly greater capability. This should leave a really large hole in the victim's chest cavity. It will be interesting to see how the scene plays out. It should be completely disgusting.

Omega is right.

film is totally looking like a big budget take on Inseminoid.  :D

First of all thank you for another awesome Podcast. I really love them. Listening to hardcore Alien Nerds around the world having in depth discussions about my most cherished universes really helps me through hard times.

Still this time I have to disagree with one key point in your discussion.

Its about all these complaints about the shower scene. I completely understand the argument, and if it was about any other franchise I would agree but its ALIEN! ALIEN!

And in Alien...

EVERYBODY DIES! EVERYBODY f**kING DIES!

This is not a spoiler! It won't keep me from being invested in the characters. The opposite- I will connect with them even more because I know it will be their last days. The question is only- who of them will make it out? And what price are they paying?

Look at

ALIEN: Everybody dies except for Ripley.
ALIENS: Everybody dies except for a litttle girl and a blind Marine- and Ripley. Oh and half an android. Okay bunch of survivors- but the vibe is EVERYBODY DIES
ALIEN 3 Everybody DIES! Includin all survivors of Aliens. All of them. DEAD. Only a psycho prisoner makes it out.
AVP: Everybody DIES! Even the main Predator. And again- only one person makes it out.

Even Prometheus- and there is only ALIEN DNA GOO in there and still- EVERYBODY DIES! One Survivor and an android head....

Okay Alien Resurrection had a bunch of survivors but- at the time in the theater I thought, okay this is a new beginning in the Alien Universe. I was totally cool with a few people surviving- so I give you that.

But still the overall feeling is- ALIENS WILL KILL EVERYONE!

Now I didn't really see the face of the guy in the trailer- so its not to spoilerish. The scene didn't take away from the movie in my opinion. No Brothers and Sisters- that scene in the end really pumped me up to be honest.

Now I want to see how it plays out in all its gory glory uncut and raw! I can't wait for that scene! This was one for the fans man. It made the point- the Alien is back! The Nightmare, the ultimate human destroyer will return to haunt us. And test us as a species. Especially after Prometheus which I like but- it dabbled too much with the context of the larger  story arc (by making an even bigger mystery), and the horror fail flat.

So this scene was just hey- allthough it is in the vein of Prometheus- with that haunting and yet fitting song, about a strange enchanted android on a journey to the edge of existence- allthough it is still that lightly philsophical mystery SCiFi story- there it is! THE ALIEN! OUT FOR CARNAGE! Blood splattering on a naked woman! The beauty of humans in there most beautiful state of existence- turned in to nightmare.

ALIEN COVENANT

The trailer needed that scene for all the Alien fans who were bummed by Prometheus. They needed to see that.

God I can't wait for that movie. To me the vibe of trailer was perfect. Super atmospheric beginning, hints at new creatures- a continuation of a story that left us wanting- an absolute outstanding landscape, spaceship horror, two Fassbenders and in the end! SPLAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!

The Alien is back!

And my life has meaning again.

Quote from: InScottWeTrust on Jan 04, 2017, 11:21:57 PM
Stop whining peeps Prometheus is great! Long live Ridley Scott!

It's like your typical airheaded supermodel. Great to look at, but hardly anything going on upstairs.

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 08, 2017, 12:14:14 AM
I want to add something about the backburster: After watching more, I do not think the creature is bursting through the spine and ribs like a chestburster. I agree with the idea that the creature has somehow absorbed or grafted the victim's spine and ribs into its structure, that it is going to emerge similar in size to the bambi-burster and with possibly greater capability. This should leave a really large hole in the victim's chest cavity. It will be interesting to see how the scene plays out. It should be completely disgusting.

I don't know-it seems the back is just another spot for the neomorph to come out. The spine pops out nice and neat (indeed disgusting). Isn't there a throatburster as well?

Quote from: rabidranger on Jan 11, 2017, 11:37:17 PM
Isn't there a throatburster as well?

Spoiler

Apparently yes.

[close]

Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 12, 2017, 11:10:46 AM

Quote from: rabidranger on Jan 11, 2017, 11:37:17 PM
Isn't there a throatburster as well?

Spoiler

Apparently yes.

[close]

:(

Spoiler

So when it comes out it'll be a 'beheading' of sorts?...due to it's sharp spine, I imagine most of throat will get shredded n when it pulls out the rest will come off as well...

[close]