Title: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:37:28 PM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:37:28 PM
I don’t think I would be wrong in stating that the closing scene of The Predator was not a very popular moment in the film. While a lot of the specifics regarding the behind-the-scenes story on The Predator is still unknown, it seemed fairly obvious that it was a last minute studio addition.
And we recently learnt that it could have been much, much worse than it ultimately was with some completely unexplainable cameos from Aliens’ Ripley and Newt. It turns out it’s not just us that felt that way. Responding to a fan’s comment on his Facebook page, The Predator co-writer Fred Dekker revealed that he also hated the scene.
However, most of his comment was related to the reception that The Predator has received as Fred was replying to a viewer who had reconsidered his opinion on the film after watching it on home release and now liked the film more. In response, Fred Dekker said:
Thank you, Stephen. This means a lot to me. We live in a culture that’s so cacophonous we sometimes cling to our opinions as our only voice in the din. Or we’re so married to our childhood memories of things we love that when the formula is contradicted, some feel betrayed by any attempt to take a different approach. In all candor, I have lots of issues with the movie (I also hate the super-suit ending!), but I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don’t have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well…that hurts. So thank you.
Fred Dekker on the set of The Predator in the Stargazer base.
I typically avoid expressing my own opinions in my reporting (I like to leave those to the podcast) and while I agree that toxicity seems to just be apart of fandoms these days, I also think it is never as simple as fans just being jerks who don’t know how the industry works.
There are certainly elements of The Predator I really enjoyed and elements I strongly disliked, but it never came down to being about The Predator taking a different approach to the material. If anything, that was something I really liked about it. Predator is such a versatile property and it was great to see someone exercising that versatility.
That’s not to say some fans may have disliked The Predator because it was trying to break the formula but ultimately it wasn’t just Predator fans that had issues with the film. The Predator didn’t sit well with the majority of critics either. As of writing, the film currently sits at 44 on Metacritic and 33% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Thanks to HN Entertainment for the news. Keep checking in with Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest on The Predator! You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to get the latest on your social media walls. You can also join in with fellow Alien and Predator fans on our forums!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 06:45:50 PM
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 06:45:50 PM
I pretty much agree with you Hicks. There were elements I liked about The Predator and a lot of things that I strongly disliked.
Sadly, toxic fandoms are increasing and becoming more a thing than they should. As the majority of our fandom are all of an "older" audience, I would hope at least that we would be more welcoming and accepting of newer folks.
Sadly, toxic fandoms are increasing and becoming more a thing than they should. As the majority of our fandom are all of an "older" audience, I would hope at least that we would be more welcoming and accepting of newer folks.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:50:28 PM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:50:28 PM
It maybe worse in the bigger fandoms like Star Wars, but it always seems to me to be the negative just shout louder and devote more energy to talking about their dislike. Not necessarily that fandoms are overrun with toxicity. Keeping on Predator, I love Predators. Far more than the majority seem to but when that came out it just got to a point where I couldn't be arsed to defend it against those that didn't like it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 06:51:46 PM
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:50:28 PM
It maybe worse in the bigger fandoms like Star Wars, but it always seems to me to be the negative just shout louder and devote more energy to talking about their dislike. Not necessarily that fandoms are overrun with toxicity. Keeping on Predator, I love Predators. Far more than the majority seem to but when that came out it just got to a point where I couldn't be arsed to defend it against those that didn't like it.
Too true.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:01:06 PM
Post by: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:01:06 PM
My guess is Fox got cold feet, slashed the budget (bye bye menagerie) and messed up the ending.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 05, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Post by: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 05, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Blowing off criticism as coming from only toxic fans does a disservice to the fans. While fandom, particularly the Alien and Predator fandom hosts its own set of toxicity (and the gatekeepers) the resounding opinion was that The Predator was a disservice to the lore, mythology and integrity of the series.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 05, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 05, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
While no movie can please everyone, I think the fandom would be a lot less toxic if the movies were better.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: RogueHybrid1701 on Jan 05, 2019, 07:21:27 PM
Post by: RogueHybrid1701 on Jan 05, 2019, 07:21:27 PM
Why am I toxic because your movie sucked?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: proto leech on Jan 05, 2019, 07:33:52 PM
Post by: proto leech on Jan 05, 2019, 07:33:52 PM
"waahhhh they didn't like my garbage ideas for predators they're toxic"
if your getting death threats thats one thing but people calling your terrible ideas out is not toxic. this move has damaged the predator brand pretty bad and you are one of the main reasons, you deserve the hate.
if your getting death threats thats one thing but people calling your terrible ideas out is not toxic. this move has damaged the predator brand pretty bad and you are one of the main reasons, you deserve the hate.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 07:39:49 PM
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 05, 2019, 07:39:49 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
Well said. The voice of reason.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Still Collating... on Jan 05, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
Post by: Still Collating... on Jan 05, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
Again with the blaming the fans trope. Yes, some responses can be out of line, but grownups should be able to take criticism without disrespecting the audience who the movie is made for anyway.
Lets get this out of the way. New for the sake of newness is just wrong. Not all new ideas work. Repeating old formulas and aspects isn't always a bad thing either. Some things just worked. Sometimes they become tiring. Balance is needed and more care should be introduced in considering some of these new ideas.
They might have been new to the franchise, but a lot of these ideas were very generic and clearly riding on the wave of the latest tropes in movies. Some new ideas were just out of place for this franchise and most of the new ideas were just badly executed. The Box Office says so, a consensus has been reached, the audience has spoken.
(Which of course doesn't mean the people who like The Predator are wrong or that their taste is worth less.)
Lets get this out of the way. New for the sake of newness is just wrong. Not all new ideas work. Repeating old formulas and aspects isn't always a bad thing either. Some things just worked. Sometimes they become tiring. Balance is needed and more care should be introduced in considering some of these new ideas.
They might have been new to the franchise, but a lot of these ideas were very generic and clearly riding on the wave of the latest tropes in movies. Some new ideas were just out of place for this franchise and most of the new ideas were just badly executed. The Box Office says so, a consensus has been reached, the audience has spoken.
(Which of course doesn't mean the people who like The Predator are wrong or that their taste is worth less.)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PM
Post by: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PM
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 07:55:06 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 07:55:06 PM
I think a big problem is that we're not dealing with star wars or marvel movies here. If one of them sucks, another is coming right around the corner to make up for it.
Hate is never warranted, but frustration certainly is. How often do we get predator and alien movies really? Sometimes the gap between films is enormous. The last AVP movie was in 2007. Resurrection - Prometheus 1997 to 2012. Predator 2 - Predators 1990 - 2010. For fans like myself who strongly disliked The Predator, it may now be like 16 years since the last good one, before we get another acceptable Predator flick. Yeah, that kinda sucks. When they only get one shot in a blue moon, I'd prefer they didn't embrace the worst ideas possible like they did with this last film.
Hate is never warranted, but frustration certainly is. How often do we get predator and alien movies really? Sometimes the gap between films is enormous. The last AVP movie was in 2007. Resurrection - Prometheus 1997 to 2012. Predator 2 - Predators 1990 - 2010. For fans like myself who strongly disliked The Predator, it may now be like 16 years since the last good one, before we get another acceptable Predator flick. Yeah, that kinda sucks. When they only get one shot in a blue moon, I'd prefer they didn't embrace the worst ideas possible like they did with this last film.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 08:41:22 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 08:41:22 PM
"Your movie is a f**king piece of shit." "f**k you for ruining the Predator franchise." or things along that line is absolutely toxic. If you really think otherwise, go get help. There are ways to express criticism while being level-headed. Figure it out.
Also, there's always those people who say things to celebrities like "If you can't handle criticism, then go find something else to do."
Well, if you can't handle being called out for bullshit, then don't say it at all. It goes both ways. Being a fan doesn't mean you get to do/say whatever you want without any sort of repercussions.
Also, there's always those people who say things to celebrities like "If you can't handle criticism, then go find something else to do."
Well, if you can't handle being called out for bullshit, then don't say it at all. It goes both ways. Being a fan doesn't mean you get to do/say whatever you want without any sort of repercussions.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
I have to comment on this, as this guy is one of the main reasons this movie, in my opinion, was a failure. Ofcourse I also blame the people who read the script and thought this was all a good idea and greenlit it. But here is the thing, we as fans of this franchise, have the right to be angry if the movie doesn't take itself or the franchise seriously. Just like others have said, a Predator film comes once in a blue moon, so we expect something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: proto leech on Jan 05, 2019, 08:56:48 PM
Post by: proto leech on Jan 05, 2019, 08:56:48 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
"this movie sucks and the ideas were bad" is not death threats or real harassment. i dont hate the man but he implemented terrible ideas to a long beloved character of mine and many others and ill roast him on it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
Imagine the uproar if the only star wars film to be made since 2 or 3 was TLJ. There's never reason to be hateful, but the audience and fans expect the people who write these movies to take their job seriously. I can't for the life of me find one thing about The Predator that can convince me they were doing that. This movie felt like a farce, and now we have to wait Lord knows how long for another chance.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 05, 2019, 09:18:56 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 05, 2019, 09:18:56 PM
The baseline narrative's incorrect.
The fault's with those who wrote it,
and those who greenlighted it.
The fault's with those who wrote it,
and those who greenlighted it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:24:48 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 05, 2019, 08:56:48 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
"this movie sucks and the ideas were bad" is not death threats or real harassment. i dont hate the man but he implemented terrible ideas to a long beloved character of mine and many others and ill roast him on it.
It's pretty clear which people Fred Dekker is talking about, so if you said stuff like "The ideas are bad", then don't worry about it. ;D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 09:30:14 PM
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 09:30:14 PM
I completely agree with King Geedorah here. C'mon bro, Black and Dekker took their time with the script, it's not like the movie was rushed or anything. Actually it got delayed multiple times. And this is what they come up with? Some people blame the reshoots but I personally think it would have been even worse without the reshoots. I hated the idea of the half human emmissionary predators or whatever they were called and also hated all the concepts of the spider predators, monkey predators and everything else. The whole idea of this movie was just wrong to me. Don't mess with the lore. Also, the dogs were great as they were in Predators, why not just stick with that and follow up on Predators with Adrien Brody. Apart from Tomas Jane and Olivia Munn, the cast were all nobodies to me. Should have given Tom Jane the lead instead. Sorry but this Boyd Hollbrook guy had zero presence and charisma. Just felt very miscast to me. I could go on and on. Guys, please explain to me, why is it that hard to make a good Predator film? It's a simple concept.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
I always find the "you don't know how hard it is to get a movie made!" defense incredibly bizarre. It's so irrelevant.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
I always find the "you don't know how hard it is to get a movie made!" defense incredibly bizarre. It's so irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: razeak on Jan 05, 2019, 09:42:06 PM
Post by: razeak on Jan 05, 2019, 09:42:06 PM
Agree 100% with Sil. It's a lazy defense. It's like they just slapped a bunch of wannabe Rambro shit together. I liked the Loonies the first time. I gave it a second go, and they didn't hold up for me. The lead was even worse and "Did you guys just see that? He just grew an exoskeleton under his skin" line was stupid and terribly delivered. I didn't notice it the first time. Predator also missed a plasma caster shot at point blank range lol.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Rudiger on Jan 05, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
Post by: Rudiger on Jan 05, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
Dekker sounding very disingenuous there. Fans didn't shit all over the movie because it tried to do something different with the lore. They shat all over it because it was so terribly bad on just about every level.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 05, 2019, 09:51:41 PM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 05, 2019, 09:51:41 PM
The movies formula was all wrong. I don't hate the man and I don't want to sound mean or hurt his feelings but The Predator was Independence Day: Resurgence. If The Predator was released in 1995 it would have been a smash hit but not in today's world. The director and chief editor need to take blame as well, there was way too much cheese, a lot of it wasn't well directed (not in a Predator way) and the editor needed to do a better job with what he got.
I sense a lot of frustration. Obviously it takes a lot of time and work to bring an idea to the big screen and then right before you begin, the studio comes in, other interest come in, belt tightening and realities sink in and suddenly it's all a bad idea but you start shooting at 6 am pronto.
The movie does not suck but it is the weakest in the series and that includes AVP. Which, oh boy really has got to hurt. I don't think the changes are that big an issue. One clan doing something different should be assumed. The space fold, dosen't belong in Predator but this is a The Predator movie so...
I sense a lot of frustration. Obviously it takes a lot of time and work to bring an idea to the big screen and then right before you begin, the studio comes in, other interest come in, belt tightening and realities sink in and suddenly it's all a bad idea but you start shooting at 6 am pronto.
The movie does not suck but it is the weakest in the series and that includes AVP. Which, oh boy really has got to hurt. I don't think the changes are that big an issue. One clan doing something different should be assumed. The space fold, dosen't belong in Predator but this is a The Predator movie so...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:22:46 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
The snarling after he shot it, didn't help the moment either. Yeah, super cool. What do they think? The audience is 5 or something?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:42:26 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:42:26 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:22:46 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
The snarling after he shot it, didn't help the moment either. Yeah, super cool. What do they think? The audience is 5 or something?
Yeah, it's just so perplexing.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PM
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:54:04 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:54:04 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Preach it. I cannot make a list of all the wacky and awful stuff they crammed into this movie, and not imagine alarm bells should've been going off for everyone involved. Those toxic fans are part of the audience, (aka) the hand that feeds you Mr. Dekker, mind the teeth please.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:56:32 PM
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:56:32 PM
If these films are so hard to get made, why not get the script right before making one? The development hell/script issues problem always is a head scratcher. They basically have no idea what to do when the time finallly arrives. So we end up with a mix and match reshoot butchers job.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PM
Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Nothing really has to be connected. I'd wager it would be better if it weren't. Predators can be lots of places, and many stories could be told. The franchise lends itself to that. Aliens have to be discovered, predators come to us. If It Bleeds is good proof of what could be done. But they have to be willing to abandon this notion of constant innovation. Every single thing doesn't have to be different each time. There's a formula, it works. Pick a place, a time, a group of people, drop in a predator, Go!
For goodness sakes, how many SAW movies have been made? People gravitate to certain franchises for something specific. If the writers and studios are not going to give it to them, then they shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Cihan 85 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
Post by: Cihan 85 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
Another thing I wanted to say, we don't know who wrote what part of the story ofcourse, my guess is that Shane Black pretty much wrote the joke parts just like in the first predator film and that's about it. I think he got too much credit for Predator 1 and didn't really contribute anything storywise. Why else would you coke up with something so disrespectful to the franchise. I honestly hope that this film will be ignored in the future and we will get a proper Predator 4. I want to see the Royce story finished. And bring back Glover and Arnold in some way and everything comes full circle.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
"by toxic fans" isn't people criticizing the film in general.
It's not suppose to be an excuse, but it can open some eyes and maybe people will realize that what was in the final version of the film wasn't what Shane and Fred wanted, but what the studio wanted. Shane and Fred could have wanted something else while the studio wanted another. Fred even said he didn't like the Predator Killer along with a few other unnamed things. Now I don't know how Shane feels, but if he does dislike it too, it's pretty clear that's what the studio wanted.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:54:04 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Preach it. I cannot make a list of all the wacky and awful stuff they crammed into this movie, and not imagine alarm bells should've been going off for everyone involved. Those toxic fans are part of the audience, (aka) the hand that feeds you Mr. Dekker, mind the teeth please.
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: EeeeyyyForgotMyPassword on Jan 05, 2019, 11:19:53 PM
Post by: EeeeyyyForgotMyPassword on Jan 05, 2019, 11:19:53 PM
The movie is being harshly criticized because it sucks, not because people are toxic.
They completely butchered the Yautja, why do they hunt? Sport? Honour? Rituals? NOPE, IT'S FOR OUR AUTISM, THEY WILL COLLECT OUR AUTISM TO MAKE CELL FROM DBZ BUT AS A PREDATOR THAT WILL THEN FIGHT THE IRON MAN PREDATOR
They completely butchered the Yautja, why do they hunt? Sport? Honour? Rituals? NOPE, IT'S FOR OUR AUTISM, THEY WILL COLLECT OUR AUTISM TO MAKE CELL FROM DBZ BUT AS A PREDATOR THAT WILL THEN FIGHT THE IRON MAN PREDATOR
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 11:23:58 PM
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 11:23:58 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PMI never said they had to be connected. P2 isn't really a strong sequel to Predator in terms of narrative. I'm advocating for location diversity.Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Nothing really has to be connected. I'd wager it would be better if it weren't. Predators can be lots of places, and many stories could be told. The franchise lends itself to that. Aliens have to be discovered, predators come to us. If It Bleeds is good proof of what could be done. But they have to be willing to abandon this notion of constant innovation. Every single thing doesn't have to be different each time. There's a formula, it works. Pick a place, a time, a group of people, drop in a predator, Go!
For goodness sakes, how many SAW movies have been made? People gravitate to certain franchises for something specific. If the writers and studios are not going to give it to them, then they shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:27:08 PM
Post by: Cihan85 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:27:08 PM
Hahaha, there is only 1 thing that I did like about the film though, The Fugitive Predator. The design was awesome and something different than previous Predators. But why kill him off within the first half of the movie and in such a disrespectful way?!! He was the only good part of the damn movie. Also, he is here to help mankind, but the first thing he does when he lands here is kill people and hang them in the trees!! Really, nothing about the film makes any sense!!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:27:43 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 11:23:58 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PMI never said they had to be connected. P2 isn't really a strong sequel to Predator in terms of narrative. I'm advocating for location diversity.Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Nothing really has to be connected. I'd wager it would be better if it weren't. Predators can be lots of places, and many stories could be told. The franchise lends itself to that. Aliens have to be discovered, predators come to us. If It Bleeds is good proof of what could be done. But they have to be willing to abandon this notion of constant innovation. Every single thing doesn't have to be different each time. There's a formula, it works. Pick a place, a time, a group of people, drop in a predator, Go!
For goodness sakes, how many SAW movies have been made? People gravitate to certain franchises for something specific. If the writers and studios are not going to give it to them, then they shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it.
I know and I agree. And watch out for Voodoo. Predator 2 not being a strong sequel is enough to ring the gong.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:28:48 PM
Post by: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:28:48 PM
The film was trash because it had trashy script. When your movie tries to change who lore to something much dumber and simply subpair, dont be surprised poeple who care about it will be vocal.
Death treats and such are bad, but saying you should be greatful cause they tried at least something different and it's so hard to get film on big screen, it quickly becomes funny. Ridiculous even.
Death treats and such are bad, but saying you should be greatful cause they tried at least something different and it's so hard to get film on big screen, it quickly becomes funny. Ridiculous even.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: EeeeyyyForgotMyPassword on Jan 05, 2019, 11:37:58 PM
Post by: EeeeyyyForgotMyPassword on Jan 05, 2019, 11:37:58 PM
Seriously, you have to be really stupid to say that the fans are toxic for hating the fact you just destroyed all of the expanded universe and the mythology of a franchise, this is simply insulting at this point, the only good scene in this movie was the Fugitive on the lab, everything else was really really bad, the fact this movie says that they take our spine not for trophys but for our DNA makes me really pissed off, this movie is a disgrace, Star Wars fans complain about their movies but they don't have to endure stuff like this.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:39:30 PM
Post by: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:39:30 PM
Yeah, see Ghostbusters III...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
If you're not attacking any of the filmmakers saying things like "f you because the film sucks." "Go to hell" etc etc. then there's no need to get defensive when he says "toxic fans". You can still let them know the films sucks and express your disappointment while being level-headed.
And like it or not, toxic fans don't get a pass for their toxic behavior nor will they ever. If people get upset when toxic people get called out, they're part of the problem.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 05, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
Post by: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 05, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
Yeah no, clinging to the "we tried to do something different but fans always hate that" is just an excuse. The movie's idea's (both new and old) overall didn't work. That's why most people (fans as well as the general audience) trashed the film, not just those "toxic fans".
I'm all for the hate that this film receives (not when it's targeted at those who aren't responsible for it), it truly deserves it, they butchered the series.
The Predator killer = The franchise Killer.
I'm all for the hate that this film receives (not when it's targeted at those who aren't responsible for it), it truly deserves it, they butchered the series.
The Predator killer = The franchise Killer.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:51:24 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:51:24 PM
Fans are not kind to movies they care about that don't make the right moves. People who work on those movies don't enjoy the criticism. I think they perceive criticism as toxicity, whether it actually is or not. For the most part, a lot of the recent entries (and even the older entries) in my favorite series have made a lot of wrong moves. I hoped The Predator would be good, but I expected it to be bad. And it is. Too bad, but the silliness about the endings is just icing on the cake.
I think the Alien and the Predator both have the same problem: The directors charged with their care don't seem to know what to do with them (or no longer want to do anything with them). So the title creatures live better in our memories and sometimes the EU. That extends to Star Wars universe, too. THe new movies can't seem to approach (let alone rise above) the standards set by the two oldest movies. Does that also sound familiar? 'Cause I'd say Alien and Predator series have the same problems.
I think the Alien and the Predator both have the same problem: The directors charged with their care don't seem to know what to do with them (or no longer want to do anything with them). So the title creatures live better in our memories and sometimes the EU. That extends to Star Wars universe, too. THe new movies can't seem to approach (let alone rise above) the standards set by the two oldest movies. Does that also sound familiar? 'Cause I'd say Alien and Predator series have the same problems.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: ToxicFan#1029108 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:54:53 PM
Post by: ToxicFan#1029108 on Jan 05, 2019, 11:54:53 PM
Thomas Dekker wrote a terrible script that was turned into a terrible movie by his bestie Shane Black. These two made a movie so terrible it has probably crashed the Predator franchise for all time, a feat not even the brothers Straus could accomplish with AvPR. Sorry if me saying that hurts anyone's tender hearts but that's a fact. It's not open for debate no matter how much you may want it to be, and if me or anyone else telling it like it is makes us toxic than I for one will gladly be toxic. You can call me and the other critics of this movie whatever you want to try and devalue our opinions and make yourselves feel better for backing the wrong horse, but at the end of the day the enormity of Shane Black and Thomas Dekker's complete failure is evident. It's right there, larger than life on the big screen.
Or at least it was for a few weeks, before it got booted off the screens because nobody wanted to watch it.
Or at least it was for a few weeks, before it got booted off the screens because nobody wanted to watch it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
If you're not attacking any of the filmmakers saying things like "f you because the film sucks." "Go to hell" etc etc. then there's no need to get defensive when he says "toxic fans". You can still let them know the films sucks and express your disappointment while being level-headed.
And like it or not, toxic fans don't get a pass for their toxic behavior nor will they ever. If people get upset when toxic people get called out, they're part of the problem.
I understand where you're coming from, and I see clearly the point you're making. I agree, there is no place whatsoever within the framework of constructive conversation, for vile and hateful rhetoric. Nobody who engages in such childish behavior should get a pass.
It is my opinion, however, that when he says "to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts..." he's being unfair, because alot of people are trashing this film, not just these "toxic fans" he's referring to. To say it in this way, risks lumping in too many people who do not deserve to be spoken of that way. He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 12:10:05 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 12:10:05 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
If you're not attacking any of the filmmakers saying things like "f you because the film sucks." "Go to hell" etc etc. then there's no need to get defensive when he says "toxic fans". You can still let them know the films sucks and express your disappointment while being level-headed.
And like it or not, toxic fans don't get a pass for their toxic behavior nor will they ever. If people get upset when toxic people get called out, they're part of the problem.
I understand where you're coming from, and I see clearly the point you're making. I agree, there is no place whatsoever within the framework of constructive conversation, for vile and hateful rhetoric. Nobody who engages in such childish behavior should get a pass.
It is my opinion, however, that when he says "to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts..." he's being unfair, because alot of people are trashing this film, not just these "toxic fans" he's referring to. To say it in this way, risks lumping in too many people who do not deserve to be spoken of that way. He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
But again, he said "by toxic fans", so it's only the toxic fans. He didn't say it simply because it was trashed.
Also (again), he mentioned he didn't like some stuff in the film. If these people think Fred was calling them toxic for simply disliking aspects of the film, then that would mean Fred was calling himself toxic too... Now, does that really make any sense for him to do that? No.
I don't think we're going to meet eye-to-eye because it seems like we're about to go in circles, so I'm going to agree to disagree. Have a good day/night.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 12:15:08 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 12:15:08 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Indeed, I've seen it happening a lot with major franchises recently.
The Director/writer will point to the worst detractor they can find;
then use them as a scapegoat-
to present all criticism towards
their work as invalid.
And frankly, Dekker isn't the most egregious.
There's others that are far, far worse.
A certain R.J comes to mind.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 12:19:40 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 12:15:08 AMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Indeed, I've seen it happening a lot with major franchises recently.
The Director/writer will point to the worst detractor they can find;
then use them as a scapegoat-
to present all criticism towards
their work as invalid.
And frankly, Dekker isn't the most egregious.
There's others that are far, far worse.
A certain R.J comes to mind.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 12:51:04 AM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 12:51:04 AM
So um yea, who are these toxic fans. I wanna see a list.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 12:57:04 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 12:57:04 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 12:51:04 AM
So um yea, who are these toxic fans. I wanna see a list.
According to Dekker:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=mlist
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Post by: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Wow! that's like all twelve of us who regularly visit the site :laugh:
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:09:18 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:09:18 AM
Quote from: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Wow! that's like all twelve of us who regularly visit the site :laugh:
Breaking News: The 12 Toxic Fans responsible for the downfall of Shane Black's latest film have now been identified. A press release from the group details their long standing commitment towards destroying the films reputation, along with a 1 item list of demands that includes returning the Predator Franchise to its roots. A spokesman for the group declined any further comment.
This follows on the heels of events that took place earlier today, in which Shane Black and Fred Dekker took to twitter to discuss the (then) supposed subversive group. "They're so mean", Dekker was quoted as saying.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 01:19:53 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 01:19:53 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:09:18 AMQuote from: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Wow! that's like all twelve of us who regularly visit the site :laugh:
Breaking News: The 12 Toxic Fans responsible for the downfall of Shane Black's latest film have now been identified. A press release from the group details their long standing commitment towards destroying the films reputation, along with a 1 item list of demands that includes returning the Predator Franchise to its roots. A spokesman for the group declined any further comment.
This follows on the heels of events that took place earlier today, in which Shane Black and Fred Dekker took to twitter to discuss the (then) supposed subversive group. "They're so mean", Dekker was quoted as saying.
BREAKING NEWS
Fans don't like being called out for being toxic. Clearly they can dish it out, but can't take it. Why do they think they can say whatever they want without any sort of repercussions? We'll have more on the topic at the 11:00 pm news. Back to you, Karen.
;D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 01:25:56 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 01:25:56 AM
Poor Fred Dekker demolished.
(https://y.yarn.co/a4aa8b71-2a8a-4014-ab3d-ff9194bb5934_text_hi.gif)
:laugh:
(https://y.yarn.co/a4aa8b71-2a8a-4014-ab3d-ff9194bb5934_text_hi.gif)
:laugh:
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:31:23 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:31:23 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 01:25:56 AM
Poor Fred Dekker demolished.
https://y.yarn.co/a4aa8b71-2a8a-4014-ab3d-ff9194bb5934_text_hi.gif
:laugh:
I don't know how he gets up in the morning. Why, just yesterday some kid from Massapequa used the word "poop" when describing the plot. Poor kid, little did he know there would be...repercussions!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: D88M on Jan 06, 2019, 01:49:21 AM
Post by: D88M on Jan 06, 2019, 01:49:21 AM
The good old blaming the fans because they did not liked the objectively terrible movie you made.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 06, 2019, 01:51:41 AM
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 06, 2019, 01:51:41 AM
Quote from: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:28:48 PMYep. I'm all for new things, but reinventing the wheel is unnecessary.
The film was trash because it had trashy script. When your movie tries to change who lore to something much dumber and simply subpair, dont be surprised poeple who care about it will be vocal.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Space_Dementia on Jan 06, 2019, 02:36:55 AM
Post by: Space_Dementia on Jan 06, 2019, 02:36:55 AM
I'm all up for taking a fresh approach, to make something new and different and not just feel like the same old... which is what they were aiming for with The predator, and I was totally up for that! But what we got was a mess... it didn't feel like one consistent story/direction. I believe that there was a radically different version of this movie that MAY have been better, but *cough* Studio *cough* got involved...maybe. One of the biggest disappointments of the year for me and that ending... that ending... I cant find the words...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Jekku on Jan 06, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
Post by: Jekku on Jan 06, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
The worst fans are the ones that harass the actors, directors, producers, etc. over a film. It's okay to be critical of a film and hate it. Just move on and don't dwell or hate on the film every chance you get. It's exhausting.
The stand out scene in The Predator for me was the lab escape. Everything else was forgettable or awful. The ending was probably the worst though. I think the Predator Killer ending scene should've been dropped completely but if they absolutely had to include it in the film then it should've been Schwarzenegger reprising his role as Dutch. It wouldn't have been amazing but it wouldn't be silly or have to create alternate time lines and have fans expect Ripley to return in a future Predator film.
The stand out scene in The Predator for me was the lab escape. Everything else was forgettable or awful. The ending was probably the worst though. I think the Predator Killer ending scene should've been dropped completely but if they absolutely had to include it in the film then it should've been Schwarzenegger reprising his role as Dutch. It wouldn't have been amazing but it wouldn't be silly or have to create alternate time lines and have fans expect Ripley to return in a future Predator film.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 06, 2019, 02:51:06 AM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 06, 2019, 02:51:06 AM
Quit griping.
I like griping :D
I like griping :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 03:13:17 AM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 03:13:17 AM
Sounds like he's taking completely valid criticism of the film and trying to boil it down to people just being angry at the "different approach" that was taken. First, the script wasn't that great. I appreciate his hard work, but even the revised material wasn't that great. Also, the original "formula" of the Predator was and continues to be the hunt. He didn't change the formula, he changed the whole mythos, lore, etc. of decades of films, comics, and games. That's more of an overhaul than a different approach, IMO.
I do empathize with the three years of hard work and his having to defend himself against toxic fans, but a lot of the criticism is valid. Like others have said, the difficulty of getting "anything on screen" is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I do empathize with the three years of hard work and his having to defend himself against toxic fans, but a lot of the criticism is valid. Like others have said, the difficulty of getting "anything on screen" is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: PsyKore on Jan 06, 2019, 04:04:37 AM
Post by: PsyKore on Jan 06, 2019, 04:04:37 AM
I actually find it a bit offensive that he thinks people don't understand the work it takes to bring a movie to the screen when for a long time most scifi films, and the people behind them, have been highly respected for their craft. It's the reason we love seeing BTS stuff.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 04:14:42 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 04:14:42 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 06, 2019, 04:04:37 AM
I actually find it a bit offensive that he thinks people don't understand the work it takes to bring a movie to the screen when for a long time most scifi films, and the people behind them, have been highly respected for their craft. It's the reason we love seeing BTS stuff.
Definitely. The workmanship and the ability of the people who create this stuff is beyond comprehension, no matter how bad the story.
Everything he writes, somebody else has to visualize and actually create for real. It ain't easy building better worlds. My sympathies lie with the guys and gals who worked their a**es off to make his vision a reality. I think they have alittle more blood sweat and tears invested in this thing. Notice, you don't see them flinging blame anywhere. They're probably too busy working on creating more amazing things to see.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:34 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:34 AM
Yeah, I don't see Tom Woodruff or Alec Gillis blaming the fans.
Even when we don't like their work from time to time.
They address it head on, the "War Crimes" series' fantastic.
Even when we don't like their work from time to time.
They address it head on, the "War Crimes" series' fantastic.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AM
This comment section only further prove people have trouble understanding such simple things.
Where is he blaming the fans? What's there to blame fans for when we didn't work on the film? Think, people.
Also, he's not "attacking" every fan who criticized the movie. He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.
Where is he blaming the fans? What's there to blame fans for when we didn't work on the film? Think, people.
Also, he's not "attacking" every fan who criticized the movie. He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 05:20:26 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 05:20:26 AM
Yeah Toxic Fans exist we know this; we're not denying that.
SIL- hit the nail on the head pages ago.
SIL- hit the nail on the head pages ago.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
I always find the "you don't know how hard it is to get a movie made!" defense incredibly bizarre. It's so irrelevant.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: proto leech on Jan 06, 2019, 05:21:59 AM
Post by: proto leech on Jan 06, 2019, 05:21:59 AM
can you link me to the toxic stuff
id like to know exactly where these guys are so i can laugh at these nasty boys
id like to know exactly where these guys are so i can laugh at these nasty boys
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 07:48:42 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 07:48:42 AM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AMEveryone knows there are toxic comments. But even if you read his comment, he's not referring to people going after individual filmmakers; he's talking about people trashing the movie itself:
He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.
Quotebut I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts.
Nobody's arguing toxic comments don't exist, just that whether it's hard to make a film is hardly a reason for people to take it easy when they don't like it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 06, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 06, 2019, 12:48:46 PM
Deploy the fans are toxic trope in
5...
4...
3...
2...
1...
Victimhood.exe initiated
5...
4...
3...
2...
1...
Victimhood.exe initiated
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 06, 2019, 02:02:22 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 06, 2019, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
In the original script they had a short dialogue though, and i think it was a bit better.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: funk_master_chunk on Jan 06, 2019, 02:46:56 PM
Post by: funk_master_chunk on Jan 06, 2019, 02:46:56 PM
In Dekker's defence the planned original ending was much better than the Pred Killer. But to touch on what he also said, he had 3 years to remedy it and come up with something better once Arnie said no to that.
Now, I appreciate he's not entirely to blame, but the script was never the strongest to begin with, was it? I distinctly remember, whilst reading the leaked script, thinking to myself: "This might actually be good if it wasn't a Predator film" and that it felt like he/they happened upon a good idea and then reworked it to include the Pred.
As for calling out the fanbase, he needs to get a thicker skin. He's in a position if great privilege which I'd be willing to bet pays quite handsomely - in more ways than one! And he ought to know that, no matter how good or bad any material is, it's always going to have people who love it and people who loathe it.
Furthermore, there are ALWAYS going to be dickheads in every walk of life, and whilst I'm certainly not condoning any of the stick he's getting, it's not like it's just a couple of fanboys who're hating on this film, is it?
It's reception has been, unanimously, tepid at best. So I'd advise he/they take a look at where the movie falls flat first before addressing the idiot section of the fanbase and calling them out on their idiocy.
Now, I appreciate he's not entirely to blame, but the script was never the strongest to begin with, was it? I distinctly remember, whilst reading the leaked script, thinking to myself: "This might actually be good if it wasn't a Predator film" and that it felt like he/they happened upon a good idea and then reworked it to include the Pred.
As for calling out the fanbase, he needs to get a thicker skin. He's in a position if great privilege which I'd be willing to bet pays quite handsomely - in more ways than one! And he ought to know that, no matter how good or bad any material is, it's always going to have people who love it and people who loathe it.
Furthermore, there are ALWAYS going to be dickheads in every walk of life, and whilst I'm certainly not condoning any of the stick he's getting, it's not like it's just a couple of fanboys who're hating on this film, is it?
It's reception has been, unanimously, tepid at best. So I'd advise he/they take a look at where the movie falls flat first before addressing the idiot section of the fanbase and calling them out on their idiocy.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 03:55:35 PM
Post by: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 05, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Blowing off criticism as coming from only toxic fans does a disservice to the fans. While fandom, particularly the Alien and Predator fandom hosts its own set of toxicity (and the gatekeepers) the resounding opinion was that The Predator was a disservice to the lore, mythology and integrity of the series.
This is what I was thinking. Is it toxic now to just dislike something?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
I can't see how Fred Dekker claims "the formula was contradicted" as being a legitimate comeback for what is PREDATOR equivalent of ALIEN Resurrection.
PREDATORs collect the skulls of "game" as trophies, a point we are horrified to see how ruthless killers they are and its the lore we respect.
The whole gene splicing and spinal fluid was just convoluted B-movie crap, how is that better?
The self parody of "the upgrade PREDATOR is an upgrade" get it? Get it? Didn't work for TERMINATOR "Genesys" won't work for PREDATOR.
I read an interesting article on why THE PREDATOR flopped (other than f**king with the PREDATOR legacy).
- Nothing we haven't scene before- PREDATOR VS PREDATOR and Pred Dogs (PREDATORS 2010), PREDATOR running around a small-town on modern day earth causing chaos (ALIENS VS PREDATOR 2 Requiem- 2007/8)
- Relying on knowledge of previous (and superior) film entries to appreciate in plot references (PREDATOR- PREDATOR 2)
- Suggesting without teasing a more eventful movie or a tie-in to ALIENS (PREDATOR 2- part deux) in sequels THE PREDATOR can't be its own thing and be an event movie first time around.
All we needed was PREDATOR with modern day movie making. The budget and creative teams were there but they dropped the ball.
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
PREDATORs collect the skulls of "game" as trophies, a point we are horrified to see how ruthless killers they are and its the lore we respect.
The whole gene splicing and spinal fluid was just convoluted B-movie crap, how is that better?
The self parody of "the upgrade PREDATOR is an upgrade" get it? Get it? Didn't work for TERMINATOR "Genesys" won't work for PREDATOR.
I read an interesting article on why THE PREDATOR flopped (other than f**king with the PREDATOR legacy).
- Nothing we haven't scene before- PREDATOR VS PREDATOR and Pred Dogs (PREDATORS 2010), PREDATOR running around a small-town on modern day earth causing chaos (ALIENS VS PREDATOR 2 Requiem- 2007/8)
- Relying on knowledge of previous (and superior) film entries to appreciate in plot references (PREDATOR- PREDATOR 2)
- Suggesting without teasing a more eventful movie or a tie-in to ALIENS (PREDATOR 2- part deux) in sequels THE PREDATOR can't be its own thing and be an event movie first time around.
All we needed was PREDATOR with modern day movie making. The budget and creative teams were there but they dropped the ball.
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 03:55:35 PMThis is what I was thinking. Is it toxic now to just dislike something?
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
So if there was three years between the original ending being drafted and Arnold saying no to appearing in the film, how was the Predator Killer studio intervention? Did Dekker and Black just not offer any sort of alternative during that three year time period? Or was there altogether a different ending that was posited that we haven't seen... (assuming that the Ripley / Newt scenarios weren't their idea to begin with.)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
....
What?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 05:18:23 PM
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 05:18:23 PM
Oh btw speaking of Directors of IRON MAN movies stepping down cause of slight or harsh criticism over Directorial decisions. Look at Jon Favreau (Directed IRON MAN 2) whom ironically was replaced by Shane black for IRON MAN 3, despite IM-2 doing well with critics and box office.
He decided on making live-action, photo-real CGI remakes of Disney properties Jungle Book (2016) which grossed $1 Billion at the Global box office.
His next movie is the Lion King (2018) which, mark my words, will also sit comfortably in the $1 Billion movie club.
If Shane Black quits movies cause of this pet-project he is a fool for writing it off as a mistake, miss-take or just can it.
He decided on making live-action, photo-real CGI remakes of Disney properties Jungle Book (2016) which grossed $1 Billion at the Global box office.
His next movie is the Lion King (2018) which, mark my words, will also sit comfortably in the $1 Billion movie club.
If Shane Black quits movies cause of this pet-project he is a fool for writing it off as a mistake, miss-take or just can it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:50 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
....
What?
Indeed... What?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 05:36:22 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 05:36:22 PM
Is there a toxic fan in the house? Still waiting.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: funk_master_chunk on Jan 06, 2019, 05:37:09 PM
Post by: funk_master_chunk on Jan 06, 2019, 05:37:09 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
So if there was three years between the original ending being drafted and Arnold saying no to appearing in the film, how was the Predator Killer studio intervention? Did Dekker and Black just not offer any sort of alternative during that three year time period? Or was there altogether a different ending that was posited that we haven't seen... (assuming that the Ripley / Newt scenarios weren't their idea to begin with.)
I'd hazard a guess that they intended to have Olmos' character back fill that section and 'recruit' Rory like Arnie was 'supposed to'; BUT the decision to cut the Emissary plotline leaves little to no room for Olmos' character and his inclusion in the "cameo role" (assuming I'm anywhere near correct, here) would just serve to further confuse the audience. As anyone who recognised him would be like "WTF is he doing here?" and the new target demographic would be like "who the f**k is this guy?" and proceed to google him as the credits rolled.
So they've probably panicked and thought "WTF DO WE DO? We NEEEEEEEED something!!!! i know... A f**kING IRON MAN SUIT!!!?!"!?!' YEAH! Now pass me the peyote and doritos and someone clean up this dead hooker situation!"
I'm starting to think that the emissaries sub plot was key to everything and that, post-buyout, Disney or w/e have stepped in to "modernise" and "re-brand" the Predator for the modern day MCU/Destruction Porn cinema goer. It's obvious how/where the film's been cut. Glaringly so. But it's utterly ruined any cohesion the film may have had and made an average (or tolerable) film into a shocking one with some 'good' parts.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PM
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Shane is actually very liberal.
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PM
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
That's a hell of a fart. :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:29:22 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: Badwolf-00 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
That's a hell of a fart. :D
Must be the kind that is strong enough to erase memories.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:29:22 PMQuote from: Badwolf-00 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
That's a hell of a fart. :D
Must be the kind that is strong enough to erase memories.
It's an alcoholic fart.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PM
Post by: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMShane is actually very liberal.
If he is then he scored an own goal.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/a24268458/olivia-munn-taking-down-hollywood-predators/
Not uncommon with all the liberal infighting happening these days.
First Uma Thurman vs team Tarantino and Weinstein
Feminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Olivia Munn mediating and playing mother to the child who got molested by Shane Black's pal.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 08:24:22 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 08:24:22 PM
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMShane is actually very liberal.
If he is then he scored an own goal.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/a24268458/olivia-munn-taking-down-hollywood-predators/
Not uncommon with all the liberal infighting happening these days.
First Uma Thurman vs team Tarantino and Weinstein
Feminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Olivia Munn mediating and playing mother to the child who got molested by Shane Black's pal.
Maybe you can't cramp the whole population into just two opposing political camps which have the same opinions on everything?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 08:27:45 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 08:27:45 PM
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PM
Not uncommon with all the liberal infighting happening these days.
First Uma Thurman vs team Tarantino and Weinstein
Feminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Olivia Munn mediating and playing mother to the child who got molested by Shane Black's pal.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
Post by: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
In all honesty, my biggest issues with the Predator is the Upgrade, and the DNA splicing hybrid crap. The suit at the end, while I don't like the high level tech of it, I like the way it at least looks. It's not that big of a deal for me. Everything else is though.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 08:37:43 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 08:37:43 PM
This situation is bad enough without bringing the all-destructive force of politics into it.
Can we not, and say we didn't?
Can we not, and say we didn't?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:44:03 PM
Post by: Eldritch_DM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 08:37:43 PM
This situation is bad enough without bringing the all-destructive force of politics into it.
Can we not, and say we didn't?
Yeah let's not go there guys and gals, please. It never ends well...nor civil.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 06, 2019, 09:10:36 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 06, 2019, 09:10:36 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 06, 2019, 02:02:22 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
In the original script they had a short dialogue though, and i think it was a bit better.
Thanks for pointing this out to me Brother John. I would agree it's a bit better. (I attached the page below)
I guess I can't say who was finally responsible for the scene we got. The script I have features Dutch, and it's definitely not the final draft. Did Dekker rewrite it this way and the movie reflects the final result? Was it actor adlib? Was it Shane Black? I don't know. But it's still hard to look at the result, this film, these examples, and legitimize anyone suggesting that negative fan reaction to this type of output equates to the fan rejecting a "different approach" in my humble opinion. And how does that view even explain the negative critical reaction?
With that said, even though this film with repeat viewings has fallen to my least favorite Predator film, I still find enjoyment with it. The ships. The lab. The Fugitive's breakout. Casey waking up in the hotel room. Sterling K. Brown as Traeger. Busey as Keyes. So if you're reading this Dekker, from one fan's opinion, it's not all bad.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 09:51:51 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 09:51:51 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
So if there was three years between the original ending being drafted and Arnold saying no to appearing in the film, how was the Predator Killer studio intervention? Did Dekker and Black just not offer any sort of alternative during that three year time period? Or was there altogether a different ending that was posited that we haven't seen... (assuming that the Ripley / Newt scenarios weren't their idea to begin with.)
The ending in the official novelization had Quinn (along with Rory and Casey) looking up at the skies and Quinn saying "Come and get us, motherf**kers". I'm going to assume that was the original ending filmed before the Predator Killer knowing there was footage just like that in some of the trailers and TV spots.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 07:48:42 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AMEveryone knows there are toxic comments. But even if you read his comment, he's not referring to people going after individual filmmakers; he's talking about people trashing the movie itself:
He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.Quotebut I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts.
Nobody's arguing toxic comments don't exist, just that whether it's hard to make a film is hardly a reason for people to take it easy when they don't like it.
Yeah, you're going to need to re-read AND UNDERSTAND what Fred wrote.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
You need to understand he's done a very poor job of wording himself if he wasn't trying to lump all negative criticism into one basket.
I get where you're coming from, but it's not hard to see why people are reacting to what he wrote like they are.
I get where you're coming from, but it's not hard to see why people are reacting to what he wrote like they are.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Naginata on Jan 06, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
Post by: Naginata on Jan 06, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
QuoteFeminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
1. That's not "liberal infighting," that's two groups of people with conflicting opinions on a specific subject.
2. Feminism has dozens of branches, not all of which believe the same things. Most 'mainstream' 3rd wave feminists I've met don't think that about trans women.
3. Hastags are a pretty bad metric by which to judge huge swaths of the population.
4. What the hell does any of this have to do with space monsters?!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 10:45:38 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 10:45:38 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
You need to understand he's done a very poor job of wording himself if he wasn't trying to lump all negative criticism into one basket.
I get where you're coming from, but it's not hard to see why people are reacting to what he wrote like they are.
He didn't really. Fred stated which type of people he was talking about.
Also, according to you guys Fred called anyone who disliked the film or any aspect of it a toxic fan. Well, let's not forget he stated he HATED the Predator Killer along with a lot of unnamed things. So you're telling me he thinks he's a toxic fan too because he dislikes aspects of the movie? That makes no sense to think that about himself.
You guys are over-thinking what he said and should relax if you didn't say anything over the top. If you were respectful in critiquing the movie, you're fine.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 11:44:58 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 11:44:58 PM
"...to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen..."
When a crap ton of people from all walks of life are trashing your movie, this is called "sticking your foot in your mouth". He just had his "deplorables" moment. It is also disingenuous for him to imply that fans "don't have the first clue" about how difficult it is for a movie to be made. That's just being rude for the sake of rudeness.
#ToxicFan and proud.
When a crap ton of people from all walks of life are trashing your movie, this is called "sticking your foot in your mouth". He just had his "deplorables" moment. It is also disingenuous for him to imply that fans "don't have the first clue" about how difficult it is for a movie to be made. That's just being rude for the sake of rudeness.
#ToxicFan and proud.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 06, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
Post by: SM on Jan 06, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
Pretty sure he's mostly right though.
'Just make a good movie and we wouldn't trash it' is obviously clueless.
That said, if he didn't mean to lump all criticism into the "toxic fans" basket, his response is incredibly badly worded.
'Just make a good movie and we wouldn't trash it' is obviously clueless.
That said, if he didn't mean to lump all criticism into the "toxic fans" basket, his response is incredibly badly worded.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 12:23:45 AM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 12:23:45 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 06, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
'Just make a good movie and we wouldn't trash it' is obviously clueless.
Please explain what makes it a clueless statement.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
1. "Just make a good movie" is a really vague statement.
2. People trash "good" movies all the time.
2. People trash "good" movies all the time.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 12:27:43 AM
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 12:27:43 AM
^
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 12:30:38 AM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 12:30:38 AM
But was Fred Dekker paid for his work?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 12:41:28 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 12:41:28 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
1. "Just make a good movie" is a really vague statement.
2. People trash "good" movies all the time.
Number 2.
Examples?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 12:45:05 AM
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 12:45:05 AM
Define "good".
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 12:51:56 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 12:51:56 AM
Well-written, well-directed, well-acted.
https://tinyurl.com/Film-sFiveElements
https://tinyurl.com/Film-sFiveElements
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 01:11:36 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 01:11:36 AM
Which are also incredibly vague criteria.
But my examples would be "literally every film ever considered good, ever." No film is universally loved.
But my examples would be "literally every film ever considered good, ever." No film is universally loved.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 01:41:51 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 01:41:51 AM
"Just make a good movie and we wouldn't trash it"
Wow, whoever thought of that is a genius. I can't believe no one else has ever thought of that until now.
;D
Wow, whoever thought of that is a genius. I can't believe no one else has ever thought of that until now.
;D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:44:58 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:44:58 AM
Why is it always the minority that gets the attention. World's gone mad.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Wysps on Jan 07, 2019, 01:49:21 AM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 07, 2019, 01:49:21 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:44:58 AM
Why is it always the minority that gets the attention. World's gone mad.
It's because people keep feeding the trolls. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the toxic fans are probably not the ones that are buying tickets, merchandise, generally supporting the fandom, etc. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:59:19 AM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:59:19 AM
Probably mean comments on his social media or maybe he lurked on here. But after the controversy before the release they are probably used to this stuff by now.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Usually these things are down to like two nut jobs. Then for some reason it's "toxic fandom". Stuffs getting old already, it's ok to get offended. Especially when you're in charge of a multi million dollar project and you screwed it up.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:26:42 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:26:42 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Usually these things are down to like two nut jobs. Then for some reason it's "toxic fandom". Stuffs getting old already, it's ok to get offended. Especially when you're in charge of a multi million dollar project and you screwed it up.
Oh, so two people are responsible for all the toxic comments on various sites? Yeah, no.
You're right, it is getting old. People pretending that there aren't any/many toxic comments, that is.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: proto leech on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
Post by: proto leech on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:47:20 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:47:20 AM
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Yes, you're right. No one is saying that here. Also, calling to assault isn't the only thing that counts as toxic.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:51:39 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:51:39 AM
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Not sure. We'll need to consult the book.
Let's see now,
...teen jokes, tortellini, torture, toxic...ah, see failure. Well, that's odd.
Flip flip
Failure: A lack of success. If failure occurs, see excuse.
flip flip flip
Excuse: An attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); often by placing it on others. Some generalization may be required.
Well, I don't really see anything about toxicity, per se, but I think Fred might be making excuses.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:51:39 AMQuote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Not sure. We'll need to consult the book.
Let's see now,
...teen jokes, tortellini, torture, toxic...ah, see failure. Well, that's odd.
Flip flip
Failure: A lack of success. If failure occurs, see excuse.
flip flip flip
Excuse: An attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); , often by placing it on others. Some generalization may be required.
Well, I don't really see anything about toxicity, per se, but I think Fred might be making excuses.
So instead of continuing to be offended over Fred's comment, like everyone else, you're now being humorous. Good on ya. (Seriously) :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 02:54:36 AM
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 02:54:36 AM
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
If you're tweeting that stuff at the guy repeatedly, then yes.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Skynet2029 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:56:44 AM
Post by: Skynet2029 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:56:44 AM
This coming from the guy who co-wrote and directed Robocop 3. You know that great misunderstood Sci-fi masterpiece. I guess the reason that one flopped was Toxic fans as well.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:58:50 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:58:50 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 02:54:36 AMQuote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
If you're tweeting that stuff at the guy repeatedly, then yes.
Harassment definitely counts. But I'd wager that only comprises an infinitesimal portion of the fanbase.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 03:03:17 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 03:03:17 AM
"Oh my god. Why is Fred Dekker mad at me for saying he should go f himself for making a piece of sh*t movie? It's just criticism. I'm the fan, we should always be able to say whatever we want!!!!"
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 03:16:12 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 03:16:12 AM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
So instead of continuing to be offended over Fred's comment, like everyone else, you're now being humorous. Good on ya. (Seriously) :D
Incorrect assumption.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 03:22:00 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 03:22:00 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 03:16:12 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
So instead of continuing to be offended over Fred's comment, like everyone else, you're now being humorous. Good on ya. (Seriously) :D
Incorrect assumption.
Incorrect assumption: People thinking Fred was referring to all the fans who criticized the movie and not the TOXIC FANS like he stated.
:D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 03:38:43 AM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 03:38:43 AM
(https://media.comicbook.com/2018/05/toxic-avenger-1106946-1280x0.jpeg)
I wonder what the Toxic Avenger thinks about The Predator?
I wonder what the Toxic Avenger thinks about The Predator?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 04:56:14 AM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 04:56:14 AM
:D :laugh: :D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 07:23:29 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 07:23:29 AM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:26:42 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Usually these things are down to like two nut jobs. Then for some reason it's "toxic fandom". Stuffs getting old already, it's ok to get offended. Especially when you're in charge of a multi million dollar project and you screwed it up.
Oh, so two people are responsible for all the toxic comments on various sites? Yeah, no.
You're right, it is getting old. People pretending that there aren't any/many toxic comments, that is.
Ok.. can I see some somewhere?
15 minutes flicking through Twitter, Ive found a bunch of positive comments and one "Fred Dekker you suck".
Assuming then it's you tube or this site?
Edit: So the original comment seems to come from his facebook page which I've just spent another 10 minutes flicking through. As a guess it's 80-90% positive comments from fans of the man, the 10% bad I can't find anything that's worse than "this movie sucked" or maybe at worst a harsher comment like "train wreck".
So I'm assuming he's deleting these "toxic" comments or he's referring to maybe Youtube comments - which would be quite silly since Youtube is ran by 12 year olds.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
No point even trying to define what makes a movie good on a forum like this. It's a trap! As for fans complaining about good movies, it's easier to tear something down afterward than to create in the first place. And movies lend themselves to nitpicking. So, whatevah. 8)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 07, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 07, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
Star Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans, I don't really see too many on Predator though, I may dislike a film if not hate it sometimes but I don't think it's a good thing if people threaten the cast and crew or each other for opinions on a film. It's a cruel world though, people get bashed for having different viewpoints all the time these days.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 07:07:40 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 07:07:40 PM
Quote from: Predwars24 on Jan 07, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
Star Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans, I don't really see too many on Predator though, I may dislike a film if not hate it sometimes but I don't think it's a good thing if people threaten the cast and crew or each other for opinions on a film. It's a cruel world though, people get bashed for having different viewpoints all the time these days.
So true, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PM
Post by: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PM
QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: HumanPredator on Jan 07, 2019, 08:43:27 PM
Post by: HumanPredator on Jan 07, 2019, 08:43:27 PM
how did it get to the point of the Predator Killer, dekker?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMOr any time someone suggested female Predators...QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Its just good old fandom passion.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: JokersWarPig on Jan 07, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
Post by: JokersWarPig on Jan 07, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
I kind of figured most of the hate for the suit came from the fact its called "Predator Killer", and I doubt they'd refer to themselves as the name we gave them.
It's design isn't terrible, but I think it's name and the dreads is what brought on so much hate.
It's design isn't terrible, but I think it's name and the dreads is what brought on so much hate.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 10:29:03 PM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2019, 10:29:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhat's Alien Blackout... oh snap I just woke up and I feel like I missed out on something interesting.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 10:31:16 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 10:31:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 09:08:20 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMOr any time someone suggested female Predators...QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Doh! You opened that can of worms!
Can't..... resist..... commenting....
If the Predators we've seen on film turn out to be male, since their musculature is greatly similar to a human male, I won't mind female Yautja resembling human females.
Ahhh, I feel better! ;D
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 10:50:39 PM
Post by: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 10:50:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Jan 07, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
I kind of figured most of the hate for the suit came from the fact its called "Predator Killer", and I doubt they'd refer to themselves as the name we gave them.
It's design isn't terrible, but I think it's name and the dreads is what brought on so much hate.
Most of the hate here came from the fact the movie is dog shit. It's quite a good system.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 08, 2019, 01:51:23 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 08, 2019, 01:51:23 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
...
That is absolutely donkey kick to the face. f**k them. This is all about rubbing together more sheckles from microtransactions.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
I'm sorry you took what I said so personal.
The common theme amongst this split fan base (and it is split) is "back to basics"- those who wanna see true sequals to Dutch and/or Harrigan, True slow burn-pacing R-rated, tense, one pred-hunter, stalking, hunting, killing for sport/fun, hiding in the shadows, one or two small details of expansion.
Then there is the theme "versatile/expansion" etc. This theme has proven to be far more disastrous and for four movies in a row has proven to fail. "Expanding" on a Universe is fine for all things NOT film. A film is 2 hours long, to expand on 12, or 8, or 4 different big ideas makes for a mess (ala the last 4 movies FOX has spit out).
To STILL pretend, STILL....that everything is fine because there are "elements" fans liked (10 mins in a film here and there) as your justice and evidence that "expansion" works and is the better formula for this franchise is at this point a swing and a miss. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 (and counting for that matter) "expansion" has failed those who preach it. I picked out Hicks for no other reason than he's top dog around here and many follow his voice and opinion. And quite frankly it's been proven wrong at this point.
There needs to be some mea-culpa's within this fan base that are fed plenty full their bellies with comic/video game/book "universe-expansion" but for no other reason than to consume some more- are willing to indulge themselves and be satisfied with "elements" (10 mins of seeing a Pred dog, or 4 mins of seeing inside the Pred ship, pred fighting an alien for 3 mins) at the sacrifice of a entire movie that is so hard to make in the first place.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: elmars 7777 on Jan 08, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
Post by: elmars 7777 on Jan 08, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
hola a mi si me gusto depredador 2018, fue hecha tipo comic, creo que por eso a muchos no les gusto, ya es hora de hacer una pelicula mas futurista y en el planeta de los depredadores y haganla un poco mas humana y menos tipo comic, donde una nave pida ayuda y se estrelle en ese planeta, donde se vea que no todos los depredadores son unos cazadores implacables y pueden ayudar a los humanos o algo asi, bueno echen buena imaginacion o usen un evento real o similar para eso, donde personas tratando de escapar son ayudadas por los mismos enemigo. bueno suerte y es solo una idea.
hello to me if I liked predator 2018, it was made comic type, I think that's why many do not like it, it's time to make a more futuristic movie and on the planet of predators and make it a little more human and less comic , where a ship asks for help and crashes on that planet, where it is seen that not all predators are relentless hunters and can help humans or something like that, good throw good imagination or use a real or similar event for that, where People trying to escape are helped by the same enemy. good luck and it's just an idea.
traslate by google chrome..
hello to me if I liked predator 2018, it was made comic type, I think that's why many do not like it, it's time to make a more futuristic movie and on the planet of predators and make it a little more human and less comic , where a ship asks for help and crashes on that planet, where it is seen that not all predators are relentless hunters and can help humans or something like that, good throw good imagination or use a real or similar event for that, where People trying to escape are helped by the same enemy. good luck and it's just an idea.
traslate by google chrome..
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 08, 2019, 05:17:41 PM
Post by: Highland on Jan 08, 2019, 05:17:41 PM
Original Pred laying smack down. Did he survive the blast?!
Hopefully Predator does go back to not being Transformers though. One day....
Edit: To be fair though Predators kinda did that also. Maybe it's time to take a 20 year breather. See you boys in 2040.
Hopefully Predator does go back to not being Transformers though. One day....
Edit: To be fair though Predators kinda did that also. Maybe it's time to take a 20 year breather. See you boys in 2040.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:01:05 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
No point even trying to define what makes a movie good on a forum like this.
Everything in and about Alien 1979.
How'd I do?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PM
Post by: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PM
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Yeah. Sure it is. :laugh:
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 08, 2019, 07:43:11 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 08, 2019, 07:43:11 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
I'm sorry you took what I said so personal.
The common theme amongst this split fan base (and it is split) is "back to basics"- those who wanna see true sequals to Dutch and/or Harrigan, True slow burn-pacing R-rated, tense, one pred-hunter, stalking, hunting, killing for sport/fun, hiding in the shadows, one or two small details of expansion.
Then there is the theme "versatile/expansion" etc. This theme has proven to be far more disastrous and for four movies in a row has proven to fail. "Expanding" on a Universe is fine for all things NOT film. A film is 2 hours long, to expand on 12, or 8, or 4 different big ideas makes for a mess (ala the last 4 movies FOX has spit out).
To STILL pretend, STILL....that everything is fine because there are "elements" fans liked (10 mins in a film here and there) as your justice and evidence that "expansion" works and is the better formula for this franchise is at this point a swing and a miss. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 (and counting for that matter) "expansion" has failed those who preach it. I picked out Hicks for no other reason than he's top dog around here and many follow his voice and opinion. And quite frankly it's been proven wrong at this point.
There needs to be some mea-culpa's within this fan base that are fed plenty full their bellies with comic/video game/book "universe-expansion" but for no other reason than to consume some more- are willing to indulge themselves and be satisfied with "elements" (10 mins of seeing a Pred dog, or 4 mins of seeing inside the Pred ship, pred fighting an alien for 3 mins) at the sacrifice of a entire movie that is so hard to make in the first place.
"This person doesn't have the same opinion as me. They are obviously pretending." - You
Sorry, but there are people who don't want the Predator franchise to be like The Purge and Final Destination franchise - same thing each movie with very little changes.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PM
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 08, 2019, 08:03:33 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 08, 2019, 08:03:33 PM
There's a lot of possibility for growth and change within the franchises, but somebody needs to think through the execution of these things and come up with material that feels right.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
I suddenly feel so bad for the Chinese viewers.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Wysps on Jan 09, 2019, 03:12:57 AM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 09, 2019, 03:12:57 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Well, one of the purposes of the reshoots was to make the film darker in both look and tone. You know, the whole changing from day to night to keep that element of horror and suspense. Perhaps they thought that making those (significant) cosmetic changes would be enough to compensate for the jokes/lighthearted scenes. He seemed kind of forthright during the reshoot ordeal about him trying to take a step back and make it less comedic. In that regard, I think it was the commercials that sort of confused the audience as far as what to expect.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 03:18:00 AM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 03:18:00 AM
Yea, the reshoots might have messed up the marketing. However those reshoots... is it possible that the rips and newt endings were the original planned ending and did they run those for the test audiences?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 06:59:52 AM
Post by: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 06:59:52 AM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AMThat does make sense, in that I avoided all the trailers aside from the first. Which is obviously why I didn't remember the marketing spin but the trailer I remember showed an action packed serious movie. Something sure did changed after that.Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 09, 2019, 12:10:13 PM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 09, 2019, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PMArticle on PC gamer on a wishlist for a Isolation 2, header: not being a mobile game.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Yeah. Sure it is. :laugh:
I'm pretty sure it will be impressive and even entertaining, it's just less immersive than being to able to play in more freedom. Of course you could stream video and audio to solve the part of the big screen and inferior audio, but I'm sure people feel like they have been robbed of 2 decent titles out of three about 5-9 years ago...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 01:51:27 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 01:51:27 PM
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 09, 2019, 12:10:13 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PMArticle on PC gamer on a wishlist for a Isolation 2, header: not being a mobile game.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Yeah. Sure it is. :laugh:
I'm pretty sure it will be impressive and even entertaining, it's just less immersive than being to able to play in more freedom. Of course you could stream video and audio to solve the part of the big screen and inferior audio, but I'm sure people feel like they have been robbed of 2 decent titles out of three about 5-9 years ago...
$4.99 for a game with microtransactions and something like 6 levels.
They are tone deaf to the fanbase.
/nope
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
Also...they will be doing an MMO shooter. With that comes microtransactions guaranteed. Same goes for most mobile games.
How do you think the response would be?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
That's too narrow of a perspective. You need to add in that Sega was disappointed with the game's reception, that they called the sales of Alien Isolation "weak".
You add that to the narrative and some may respond we're lucky to have gotten anything new with Amanda Ripley.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 03:57:00 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
That's too narrow of a perspective. You need to add in that Sega was disappointed with the game's reception, that they called the sales of Alien Isolation "weak".
You add that to the narrative and some may respond we're lucky to have gotten anything new with Amanda Ripley.
https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI (https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI)
This is relative to brands and products...
https://www.wefirstbranding.com/advertising/what-to-do-when-good-brands-make-bad-things-or-bad-brands-do-good/
This is clearly a case of good brand making a bad product.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 09, 2019, 04:43:08 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 09, 2019, 04:43:08 PM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:57:00 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
That's too narrow of a perspective. You need to add in that Sega was disappointed with the game's reception, that they called the sales of Alien Isolation "weak".
You add that to the narrative and some may respond we're lucky to have gotten anything new with Amanda Ripley.
https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI (https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI)
This is relative to brands and products...
https://www.wefirstbranding.com/advertising/what-to-do-when-good-brands-make-bad-things-or-bad-brands-do-good/
This is clearly a case of good brand making a bad product.
But they already did a good product in the past (Isolation), which according to Sega did not sell well, or at least not well enought for them to have any faith in a sequel.
I am as disappointed as anyone about the mobile reveal, but it is understandable that Sega did not put time and resources in an fully fledged Isolation sequel or Alien AAA title, when the returns are very questionable.
They tried with Isolation and as great as that game was, the further public seemed not to be interessted in that kind of game.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 09, 2019, 05:01:40 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 09, 2019, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 04:50:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
That may objectively be the case considering genre, past history etc, but it did not sell well enough that the time and money they would need for a sequel would not be better and saver invested in another game apparently.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
That's stupid. We're a niche gaming market though. As I have said these are "old people" franchises. At least I did my due diligence in buying 2 copies...PC and Xbox1.
Oh well.
Oh well.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:19 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:19 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
Sega Sammy Holdings Inc. is publicly traded company. A declaration of "weak" sales of Alien Isolation wouldn't be declared publicly, unless they found the sales to be weak. Full disclosure.
I'd forget genre comparisons etc... As with anything, it's all about what they spent versus what they earned.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
And SEGA has a public history of expecting WAY too much from niche IPs.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 06:15:42 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 06:15:42 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
And SEGA has a public history of expecting WAY too much from niche IPs.
*COUGH COUGH* ALIENS: COLONIAL MARINES *COUGH COUGH*
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
No, ACM's a completely different beast.
Randy Pitchford literally stole most of the funding and put it into the development of Borderlands.
Whilst outsourcing parts of the game to many different studios and paying them in pennies.
Sure, SEGA should've canned ACM and given AVP 2010 more development time-
whilst they went ahead with Aliens Crucible. But no one could have predicted the shitshow ACM turned into.
Randy Pitchford literally stole most of the funding and put it into the development of Borderlands.
Whilst outsourcing parts of the game to many different studios and paying them in pennies.
Sure, SEGA should've canned ACM and given AVP 2010 more development time-
whilst they went ahead with Aliens Crucible. But no one could have predicted the shitshow ACM turned into.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
No, ACM's a completely different beast.
Randy Pitchford literally stole most of the funding and put it into the development of Borderlands.
Whilst outsourcing parts of the game to many different studios and paying them in pennies.
Sure, SEGA should've canned ACM and given AVP 2010 more development time-
whilst they went ahead with Aliens Crucible. But no one could have predicted the shitshow ACM turned into.
Every company has quality control (QC). From customer service call centers to companies who produce and make the games. Somebody put their name on ACM and okayed it to the gaming market. Whoever's signature it was should be held accountable just as much as Pitchford.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Now, you're being unreasonable.
It was probably clear to whoever gave the go ahead on the game's release-
that to invest any more time or money, would be essentially burning money
the best they could do reasonably, financially speaking would be to release
ACM and try to get some return on their investment.
It was probably clear to whoever gave the go ahead on the game's release-
that to invest any more time or money, would be essentially burning money
the best they could do reasonably, financially speaking would be to release
ACM and try to get some return on their investment.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 07:22:24 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 07:22:24 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Now, you're being unreasonable.
It was probably clear to whoever gave the go ahead on the game's release-
that to invest any more time or money, would be essentially burning money
the best they could do reasonably, financially speaking would be to release
ACM and try to get some return on their investment.
Asking to have a working game is unreasonable?
https://youtu.be/F-FnyTakrr4 (https://youtu.be/F-FnyTakrr4)
https://www.cinemablend.com/games/2452240/gearbox-had-a-hilarious-response-to-the-aliens-colonial-marines-bug
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/07/14/a-single-typo-wrecked-aliens-colonial-marines-and-people-are-handling-it-fine/
https://screenrant.com/aliens-colonial-marines-typo-broke-discovered/
And don't worry, I have another unpopular opinion. I think Bugthesda is just as guilty of shipping out broken, lazily made, or quality untested games.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 07:43:32 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 07:43:32 PM
No, just saying that the person who "ok'd" it was probably just trying desperately,
to make something back from the trash fire they invested in that Gearbox created.
& Yes, Bethesda has always made sub-par trash-
the widest, shallowest puddle is how I'd describe
their RPGs- the only reason New Vegas is good
is because of Obsidian and Chris Avellone.
to make something back from the trash fire they invested in that Gearbox created.
& Yes, Bethesda has always made sub-par trash-
the widest, shallowest puddle is how I'd describe
their RPGs- the only reason New Vegas is good
is because of Obsidian and Chris Avellone.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 09:47:09 PM
Post by: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 06:59:52 AMThe fan reactions to the trailers and TV spots were all over the place too.Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AMThat does make sense, in that I avoided all the trailers aside from the first. Which is obviously why I didn't remember the marketing spin but the trailer I remember showed an action packed serious movie. Something sure did changed after that.Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Although I liked the movie (not saying it's perfect, it had it's problems), I still wish it was a little more dark and gritty... like it was advertised in some of the trailers/TV spots.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Cellien on Jan 09, 2019, 09:53:47 PM
Post by: Cellien on Jan 09, 2019, 09:53:47 PM
I think this guy took it a little too personally, which I'm sure is hard not to do. Many of us have been in careers where you put in a ton of time and work into something only to have a boss (or customer) tell you it sucks. And, ya know, sometimes they're right. It's life. Learn from it and move on. I feel for him, but people aren't attacking him; they're attacking the final result.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PM
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 08, 2019, 07:43:11 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
I'm sorry you took what I said so personal.
The common theme amongst this split fan base (and it is split) is "back to basics"- those who wanna see true sequals to Dutch and/or Harrigan, True slow burn-pacing R-rated, tense, one pred-hunter, stalking, hunting, killing for sport/fun, hiding in the shadows, one or two small details of expansion.
Then there is the theme "versatile/expansion" etc. This theme has proven to be far more disastrous and for four movies in a row has proven to fail. "Expanding" on a Universe is fine for all things NOT film. A film is 2 hours long, to expand on 12, or 8, or 4 different big ideas makes for a mess (ala the last 4 movies FOX has spit out).
To STILL pretend, STILL....that everything is fine because there are "elements" fans liked (10 mins in a film here and there) as your justice and evidence that "expansion" works and is the better formula for this franchise is at this point a swing and a miss. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 (and counting for that matter) "expansion" has failed those who preach it. I picked out Hicks for no other reason than he's top dog around here and many follow his voice and opinion. And quite frankly it's been proven wrong at this point.
There needs to be some mea-culpa's within this fan base that are fed plenty full their bellies with comic/video game/book "universe-expansion" but for no other reason than to consume some more- are willing to indulge themselves and be satisfied with "elements" (10 mins of seeing a Pred dog, or 4 mins of seeing inside the Pred ship, pred fighting an alien for 3 mins) at the sacrifice of a entire movie that is so hard to make in the first place.
"This person doesn't have the same opinion as me. They are obviously pretending." - You
Sorry, but there are people who don't want the Predator franchise to be like The Purge and Final Destination franchise - same thing each movie with very little changes.
Wrong. The correct interpretation would be:
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 11:35:22 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 09, 2019, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Be careful what you wish for. ;)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:38:50 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:38:50 PM
Be careful wishing people would wait until a piece of media is out before assessing whether it's bad or not?
... why?
... why?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:38:50 PM
Be careful wishing people would wait until a piece of media is out before assessing whether it's bad or not?
... why?
Here's 40 reasons why.
https://www.metacritic.com/feature/40-video-games-with-disappointing-reviews
A few these, I personally got screwed by. Buying into the hype only to be a shit on with a half baked product. I learned two valuable lessons: never preorder and never buy into the hype train.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 10, 2019, 12:05:30 AM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 10, 2019, 12:05:30 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 06:15:42 PMIn which it was not the niche market but the inferior product that bit them in the butt.Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
And SEGA has a public history of expecting WAY too much from niche IPs.
*COUGH COUGH* ALIENS: COLONIAL MARINES *COUGH COUGH*
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:08:09 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:08:09 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AMWhen did lesson three, "Shit on the product sight-unseen" come in? You can do both those things without writing off the media before it's even out.
I learned two valuable lessons: never preorder and never buy into the hype train.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:08:09 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AMWhen did lesson three, "Shit on the product sight-unseen" come in? You can do both those things without writing off the media before it's even out.
I learned two valuable lessons: never preorder and never buy into the hype train.
Past industry behavior is an accurate predictor of future behavior.
I could very well be wrong, but past experiences have kind of forged my perspectives based on personal experience.
I don't know how you can find a mobile game a feasible substitute to an actual game, but to each his own I guess.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:14:38 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:14:38 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AMThere was never an option presented of Isolation II being made, so I don't see it as a substitute to begin with.
I don't know how you can find a mobile game a feasible substitute to an actual game, but to each his own I guess.
Besides, I'll take Dirty Laundry over Punisher: War Zone any day.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 10, 2019, 01:24:28 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 10, 2019, 01:24:28 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
I remember Perlman was the shop owner. Jane was just ruthless.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:16:21 AM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:16:21 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:14:38 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AMThere was never an option presented of Isolation II being made, so I don't see it as a substitute to begin with.
I don't know how you can find a mobile game a feasible substitute to an actual game, but to each his own I guess.
Factoring in what's been reported with Isolation's sales, this^.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 10, 2019, 09:11:51 AM
Post by: Huntsman on Jan 10, 2019, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMMe too. Jane nailed the role. Would've loved another full length film from him.Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 09:30:46 AM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
That's stupid. We're a niche gaming market though. As I have said these are "old people" franchises. At least I did my due diligence in buying 2 copies...PC and Xbox1.
Oh well.
I will never ever agree with this statement. Alien and Predator aren't "old people" franchises. With each "restart" of the franchise you get influxes of new fans. You get people becoming fans at random ass points too. I've been playing Alien and Predator since I was a wee nipper, near enough exclusively in my early teens.
I'm 30 this year. I'm jazzed to have a new mobile game. The last one is a few years old now and as f**king fun as that was, I'm ready for a new thing.
I didn't expect an Isolation 2. We've known for years that it didn't do well enough commercially. We also know that Fox was showing us Amanda was accessible in more than just Isolation.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 10:52:17 AM
Post by: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 10:52:17 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F9f%2F9fd57643a7830805f9d09db4cf3f4a0ddb748ca093fa3d72939a6609cafeb628.jpg&hash=25e6732335e9aa5256f54f70a4c06c4e7c59841a)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 10:55:35 AM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 10:55:35 AM
True on both counts. :'(
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:27:10 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 09:30:46 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
That's stupid. We're a niche gaming market though. As I have said these are "old people" franchises. At least I did my due diligence in buying 2 copies...PC and Xbox1.
Oh well.
I will never ever agree with this statement. Alien and Predator aren't "old people" franchises. With each "restart" of the franchise you get influxes of new fans. You get people becoming fans at random ass points too. I've been playing Alien and Predator since I was a wee nipper, near enough exclusively in my early teens.
I'm 30 this year. I'm jazzed to have a new mobile game. The last one is a few years old now and as f**king fun as that was, I'm ready for a new thing.
I didn't expect an Isolation 2. We've known for years that it didn't do well enough commercially. We also know that Fox was showing us Amanda was accessible in more than just Isolation.
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Growing up I didn't know anyone my age who was interested and yet here I am, surrounded by people my age who've been interested as long as me.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Growing up I didn't know anyone my age who was interested and yet here I am, surrounded by people my age who've been interested as long as me.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
The only reason people here like it is because this is a FAN site. This is a conglomerate of people coming together for these IPs.
Most younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Cruentus on Jan 10, 2019, 11:34:02 AM
Post by: The Cruentus on Jan 10, 2019, 11:34:02 AM
Making films is definitely not simple and I do appreciete the effort that goes in to it, but I do think everyone involved in the process do needs to make sure continuity and previous films are respected.
The route The Predator went down just undermined the previous ones. The creature was better of as an alien hunter looking for a good and challenging game, nothing more. Taking trophies from a successful hunt was brilliant but now apparently, they just want spinal fluid and to invade the earth...
The dna thing is terrible and it does not work that way. I don't know why both franchises had to go down the hybrid and genetic experimentation route.
Sometimes its best to keep a film simple and stay true to its roots. At least in my opinion anyway.
I'm glad Dekker is aware of the flaws, especially when you got some filmmakers like Uwe Boll who will think their movie is brilliant and the best thing ever when its trash. :P
The route The Predator went down just undermined the previous ones. The creature was better of as an alien hunter looking for a good and challenging game, nothing more. Taking trophies from a successful hunt was brilliant but now apparently, they just want spinal fluid and to invade the earth...
The dna thing is terrible and it does not work that way. I don't know why both franchises had to go down the hybrid and genetic experimentation route.
Sometimes its best to keep a film simple and stay true to its roots. At least in my opinion anyway.
I'm glad Dekker is aware of the flaws, especially when you got some filmmakers like Uwe Boll who will think their movie is brilliant and the best thing ever when its trash. :P
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:27:10 AM
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
Plenty of people my age didn't know about the series when I was growing up. Plenty of people my age still don't know about the series. Same for people plenty older than me.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:35:44 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:35:44 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMYup. Same here.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
Yet here I am, surrounded by people my age approaching 30 and they've been fans as long as me. Yes, it's a fan site. That's how you find the fans.
QuoteMost younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.Ask young people again in 40 years.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:38:40 AM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 11:38:40 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:35:44 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMYup. Same here.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
Yet here I am, surrounded by people my age approaching 30 and they've been fans as long as me. Yes, it's a fan site. That's how you find the fans.QuoteMost younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.Ask young people again in 40 years.
We'll see what happens when I go as Ahab Predator at the next comiccon, but I have a feeling most people who will want pictures of the character not because they know who or what he is. But because it will be a really cool costume. But perhaps that's all it takes to build faith and interest again.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
It's feeling like this is more to do with your specific location. I go to the local con every year and there's always A/P merch, cosplayers, and people interested in the franchises. Either you're just in a particularly empty area or you're really overselling the lack of interest. Either way, I can assure you -- it's not that bad!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 11:48:07 AM
Post by: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 11:48:07 AM
I don't imagine many people at a comic convention wouldn't know what a Predator is.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:54:24 AM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:54:24 AM
They might not know "who" it is, as it's Ahab specifically, but "what", definitely.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Wysps on Jan 10, 2019, 12:04:56 PM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 10, 2019, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
It's feeling like this is more to do with your specific location. I go to the local con every year and there's always A/P merch, cosplayers, and people interested in the franchises. Either you're just in a particularly empty area or you're really overselling the lack of interest. Either way, I can assure you -- it's not that bad!
I'll second this. I'm also 30 and all of my peers (20's to 40's) know what Predator is. Most of the men I've mentioned the fandom to (they've mostly commented on shirts I've worn in the past or the topic has been brought up randomly by way of games, movies, etc.) have expressed their liking of the franchise, even if it's not the same level of devotion like we have here. Other women have also mentioned knowing about the franchise, but I'll admit that particular peer group has been less outspoken about knowing what it is. Anyway, I'm not sure if it's your particular area or your maybe being somewhat self conscious of your level of fandom (your in good company!), it doesn't seem to match up with what I've seen in the public.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 01:12:31 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 01:12:31 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
It's feeling like this is more to do with your specific location. I go to the local con every year and there's always A/P merch, cosplayers, and people interested in the franchises. Either you're just in a particularly empty area or you're really overselling the lack of interest. Either way, I can assure you -- it's not that bad!
I've seen a Colonial Marine once in person but that was it. And then a Predator cosplayer on the news. So that's two people in this metropolitan area who like the franchises. Beyond that though, have not seen anyone else. In media or otherwise. Being in central FL, I would expect to see more.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
I am going to speak mostly about Predator here, but I go to the local comic shop regularly (I have a pull list) and still see Alien & Predator everywhere. The Predator Essential Comics Vol.1 is eye-level as soon as you enter the shop on a graphic novel rack, and the new release shelf has copies of Williams Gibson's Alien 3 as well as some remaining copies of Predator: Hunters II
My local Target has a dedicated shelf with a ton of NECA Predator figures including the Bad Blood vs Enforcer 2-pack, Ahab , Fugitive and now the Thermal Vision Predator which I was checking out last night actually.
Basically, there's plenty of places the demographic in question gets exposure to Predator. Heck, just the memes alone riffing "Get to the chopper!" and the "You son of a bitch" handshake that circulates in young fan communities feeds general awareness.
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
My local Target has a dedicated shelf with a ton of NECA Predator figures including the Bad Blood vs Enforcer 2-pack, Ahab , Fugitive and now the Thermal Vision Predator which I was checking out last night actually.
Basically, there's plenty of places the demographic in question gets exposure to Predator. Heck, just the memes alone riffing "Get to the chopper!" and the "You son of a bitch" handshake that circulates in young fan communities feeds general awareness.
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 10, 2019, 01:43:50 PM
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 10, 2019, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
I'm just in it to see Michael Biehn, dude.
Let's see what I think afterwards.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:52:52 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:52:52 PM
You are going TO LOVE IT!!!
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/4UYrgXnwOKLhS/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c374e0a4143545a41d98a59)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/4UYrgXnwOKLhS/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c374e0a4143545a41d98a59)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 10, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 10, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMQuote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Growing up I didn't know anyone my age who was interested and yet here I am, surrounded by people my age who've been interested as long as me.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
The only reason people here like it is because this is a FAN site. This is a conglomerate of people coming together for these IPs.
Most younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.
Also depends how old you are... I'm 31 and plenty of people my age and younger love it, trust me !
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 02:07:05 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 10, 2019, 02:07:05 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
I am going to speak mostly about Predator here, but I go to the local comic shop regularly (I have a pull list) and still see Alien & Predator everywhere. The Predator Essential Comics Vol.1 is eye-level as soon as you enter the shop on a graphic novel rack, and the new release shelf has copies of Williams Gibson's Alien 3 as well as some remaining copies of Predator: Hunters II
My local Target has a dedicated shelf with a ton of NECA Predator figures including the Bad Blood vs Enforcer 2-pack, Ahab , Fugitive and now the Thermal Vision Predator which I was checking out last night actually.
Basically, there's plenty of places the demographic in question gets exposure to Predator. Heck, just the memes alone riffing "Get to the chopper!" and the "You son of a bitch" handshake that circulates in young fan communities feeds general awareness.
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
Must be nice. My area doesn't have that. I've searched a 35 mile radius at every Target. Most I ever saw was a single Broken Tusk figure. That was the first and last time since...I'm convinced Ebay scalpers are to blame though. As for comic shops, I've had mixed results. I had to drive 2 hours away to Orlando to find AvP/Aliens/Predator comics in abundance. In my local area, I only found the most recent Predator Comic, Hunters Vol 1. Nothing else though. And I go regularly to these locations in search of merch.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
Your area is not very AVP friendly it seems. :-\ Sorry brother!
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 10, 2019, 02:30:42 PM
Post by: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 10, 2019, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
Your area is not very AVP friendly it seems. :-\ Sorry brother!
It's been awhile since I went to the Target in my area, so I haven't figured out if they carry NECA or not.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 10, 2019, 05:36:00 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 10, 2019, 05:36:00 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMAt this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Who said that ? And why do you never mention the few good ideas rightly executed in this movie ? If you do, will this burn your fingers while you're typing or what ? Most people don't have this problem when it comes to Predators or the Alien prequels.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 08:51:49 PM
Post by: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 08:51:49 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMI haven't avoided the topic, you just can't seem to handle people disagreeing with you. An internet forum may not be the best place for you.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 02:48:40 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 02:48:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 10:52:17 AM
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9f/9fd57643a7830805f9d09db4cf3f4a0ddb748ca093fa3d72939a6609cafeb628.jpg
Only SM could get away with that. Such power you wield.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 11, 2019, 08:09:13 AM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 11, 2019, 08:09:13 AM
I do have a sense of humour. :P
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.
Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.
If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.
People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.
What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PM
Post by: AhabPredator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.
Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.
If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.
People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.
What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.
Reading this made me wonder where I've seen this line of thinking before and then I remembered exactly where.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYBpI6ZF.jpg&hash=bf3d5bf32a21353c6f5a926f4e46ab4e13c44a36)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PM
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 09:05:41 PM
Post by: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 09:05:41 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
Yes.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 11, 2019, 09:50:52 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 11, 2019, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
They have some spies. :P
But yeah, I think maybe it was Colin back then that first said some at Fox watched the site to see the fans reactions to stuff.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 11, 2019, 10:53:41 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 11, 2019, 10:53:41 PM
They're around.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/V1NxC1YoNEHBe/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c391e04645242336fcbfaa2)
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/V1NxC1YoNEHBe/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c391e04645242336fcbfaa2)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AM
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.
Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.
If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.
People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.
What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.
Reading this made me wonder where I've seen this line of thinking before and then I remembered exactly where.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYBpI6ZF.jpg&hash=bf3d5bf32a21353c6f5a926f4e46ab4e13c44a36)
Reading what exactly?
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.
But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 11, 2019, 09:50:52 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
They have some spies. :P
But yeah, I think maybe it was Colin back then that first said some at Fox watched the site to see the fans reactions to stuff.
I guess the Predalien and it's eggbarfing did not go over all too well back then? :P
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AM
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.
But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.
Maybe some people are insecure. :-\
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Who can enjoy what? What defines good or not?
Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.
Sorry Fred
#ToxicFan
Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.
Sorry Fred
#ToxicFan
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Wysps on Jan 12, 2019, 05:12:50 AM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 12, 2019, 05:12:50 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.
But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.
Maybe some people are insecure. :-\
Seconded. A lot of it probably stems from insecurity at some level.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: DerelictShip on Jan 12, 2019, 01:12:35 PM
Post by: DerelictShip on Jan 12, 2019, 01:12:35 PM
Probably shouldn't be in the industry if you cant take criticism.
Especially if you're going to blame fans.
Especially if you're going to blame fans.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 12, 2019, 02:10:27 PM
Post by: Highland on Jan 12, 2019, 02:10:27 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Who can enjoy what? What defines good or not?
Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.
Sorry Fred
#ToxicFan
I think the main problem is they clearly farted around so much that they didn't know WTF was happening by the end. You can claim studio interference, but they probably interfered because the movie was terrible.
The cast is good, the effects are passable, the director is solid, the story might have been ok... had they not just put 85 clips together and then called it a movie.
Makes you wonder what power struggles and politics are involved that they can take $90 Million bucks and just spray it against a wall.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PM
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PM
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
[/quote]
I'm only 19, and I think highly of the originals, have watched them since I was younger and still enjoy them. I've read a few comics but not too many of them, and I'd love to read the novels. I'm not going to say I know them as well as I want but I feel like generalizing a certain age group and saying they wouldn't like something is a bit far fetched. Especially nowadays when they can research certain things on fan wikis and such, to such a huge extent.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 13, 2019, 08:40:28 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 13, 2019, 08:40:28 PM
@Voodoo Magic: That gif is hilarious!
@Predwars24: Not all young people think that way. But young people with fans for parents may end up being fans just because... Then they show their friends and... Voila! More fans! ;D Of course, it would be better if the movie-making people could make some new films worthy of lifelong fandom. But that's likely too much to ask.
@Predwars24: Not all young people think that way. But young people with fans for parents may end up being fans just because... Then they show their friends and... Voila! More fans! ;D Of course, it would be better if the movie-making people could make some new films worthy of lifelong fandom. But that's likely too much to ask.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Stitch on Jan 14, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
Post by: Stitch on Jan 14, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
Quote from: Predwars24 on Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PMI think there's a bigger pop cultural gap now between generations than there has been in the past. I'm 32 and I can have conversations about music and TV shows from the 60s and 70s because they were part of my childhood.Quote
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
I'm only 19, and I think highly of the originals, have watched them since I was younger and still enjoy them. I've read a few comics but not too many of them, and I'd love to read the novels. I'm not going to say I know them as well as I want but I feel like generalizing a certain age group and saying they wouldn't like something is a bit far fetched. Especially nowadays when they can research certain things on fan wikis and such, to such a huge extent.
We watched repeats on TV because they were what was on TV. There's currently such a huge variety of media available that (other than on specific retro channels) you don't tend to see old repeats. This gives a different experience to younger viewers.
Alien is an old property, and so younger people are less likely to see it because it's not targeted at them, and there's so much more choice now. Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
Post by: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Naginata on Jan 16, 2019, 11:47:34 PM
Post by: Naginata on Jan 16, 2019, 11:47:34 PM
^ Let's not get carried away here...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 16, 2019, 11:59:18 PM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jan 16, 2019, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
You are not alone.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: 426Buddy on Jan 17, 2019, 12:16:58 AM
Post by: 426Buddy on Jan 17, 2019, 12:16:58 AM
Disagree
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 03:15:51 AM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 03:15:51 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 16, 2019, 11:59:18 PMQuote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
You are not alone.
I'll go even further than that.
AVPR* > The Predator
Alien Resurrection
AVP
*unrated blu
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 17, 2019, 03:20:03 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 17, 2019, 03:20:03 AM
What you can't see in AVPR is still better than what you can see in The Predator.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 17, 2019, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 17, 2019, 02:11:00 PM
Maybe The Predator will seem better over time.
AVPR was a fun but dumb slasher popcorn movie with some really bad jokes, loads of clumsy fan service, and one memorable (but obvious) sightgag. It was never going to please people looking for a serious entry in the series. I didn't mind seeing it, but I don't revisit it. IIRC, the whole plot, including the ending, was in the commercial.
AVP is OK. There were some interesting ideas and RS recycled some of them for Prometheus. AVP has some good sequences, too. I don't think it deserves all the hate it gets. Maybe some of it... ;D I can still stand to watch it, and that's more than I can say for a lot of other movies.
Resurrection aged a little better than I thought. To me, it's a mediocre monster movie with beautiful production design and an underwhelming final monster. And loads of Glorious Door Reveals! :laugh:
Covenant and maybe Prometheus could also be on this list.
AVPR was a fun but dumb slasher popcorn movie with some really bad jokes, loads of clumsy fan service, and one memorable (but obvious) sightgag. It was never going to please people looking for a serious entry in the series. I didn't mind seeing it, but I don't revisit it. IIRC, the whole plot, including the ending, was in the commercial.
AVP is OK. There were some interesting ideas and RS recycled some of them for Prometheus. AVP has some good sequences, too. I don't think it deserves all the hate it gets. Maybe some of it... ;D I can still stand to watch it, and that's more than I can say for a lot of other movies.
Resurrection aged a little better than I thought. To me, it's a mediocre monster movie with beautiful production design and an underwhelming final monster. And loads of Glorious Door Reveals! :laugh:
Covenant and maybe Prometheus could also be on this list.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 17, 2019, 06:07:19 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 17, 2019, 06:07:19 PM
The progressive rehabilitation of AVP is beyond me. It was the biggest insult to both franchises at the time, turning two legendary monsters into family friendly space pets...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:13:08 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:13:08 PM
Handing both franchises to one of the most mediocre and inoffensively bad Directors in the business whilst simultaneously torpedoing a Alien film written by James Cameron and Directed by Ridley Scott. Then spawning AVPR.
Yeah, AVP's great...
Yeah, AVP's great...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 17, 2019, 06:18:28 PM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 17, 2019, 06:18:28 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:13:08 PM
Handing both franchises to one of the most mediocre and inoffensively bad Directors in the business whilst simultaneously torpedoing a Alien film written by James Cameron and Directed by Ridley Scott. Then spawning AVPR.
Yeah, AVP's great...
That i will never get over.
I also agree with the choice of Paul W. S. Anderson for the project. He seems to be an alright bloke from what i have seen in interviews, but man he sucks at his profession.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
Resurrection > AVP >
AVPR = The Predator
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
Resurrection > AVP >
AVPR = The Predator
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 17, 2019, 06:30:24 PM
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Jan 17, 2019, 06:30:24 PM
Could be.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
No way, Resurrection is just the worst. Why, why, why did Sigourney sign up to do that parody? It's her equivalent to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Batman & Robin!
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoTKP1ydJAJlC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c40d2f44b7a726945c52542)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: cloverfan98 on Jan 17, 2019, 07:15:30 PM
Post by: cloverfan98 on Jan 17, 2019, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
I'd agree with you. AVP:R is a horrible movie but the Predator acts how a Predator SHOULD act. There's no overly convoluted attempts to redefine the Predator concept in that film like in The Predator.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 07:20:42 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
No way, Resurrection is just the worst. Why, why, why did Sigourney sign up to do that parody?
It's her equivalent to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Batman & Robin!
https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoTKP1ydJAJlC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c40d2f44b7a726945c52542
I suppose it comes down to the fact that Resurrection's more interesting,
(and much better Directed) and when it comes to bad movies:
Interesting > "Good"
That's why, for instance- I find Batman Forever INFINITELY
more watchable than TDK Rises, because Rises is not only
bad; it's dull and bad- making Forever, more entertaining.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Stitch on Jan 17, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
Post by: Stitch on Jan 17, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 07:20:42 PMHmm... Interesting take on things. In regards to Batman Forever vs TDKR, I'd agree with you, BUT only when watching the Fan Edit Red Book Edition of Batman Forever. Otherwise, TDKR beats it, in a heartbeat.Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
No way, Resurrection is just the worst. Why, why, why did Sigourney sign up to do that parody?
It's her equivalent to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Batman & Robin!
https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoTKP1ydJAJlC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c40d2f44b7a726945c52542
I suppose it comes down to the fact that Resurrection's more interesting,
(and much better Directed) and when it comes to bad movies:
Interesting > "Good"
That's why, for instance- I find Batman Forever INFINITELY
more watchable than TDK Rises, because Rises is not only
bad; it's dull and bad- making Forever, more entertaining.
As for Jeunet vs Anderson... That's tricky. Anderson made Event Horizon, one of the best space horror films, and therefore should be better suited to making an Alien movie. Jeunet is not someone who should have ever made an alien film, as it is not his oeuvre. I wonder what the movies would have been like if the directors were switched. Alien Resurrection directed by PWS Anderson, and AvP directed by JP Jeunet might have been way more interesting.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 09:45:25 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 09:45:25 PM
Perhaps.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 10:14:39 PM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 10:14:39 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Jan 17, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
I wonder what the movies would have been like if the directors were switched. Alien Resurrection directed by PWS Anderson, and AvP directed by JP Jeunet might have been way more interesting.
I believe both film's inherent problems go deeper than direction, but it is an interesting question for curiosity's sake. :)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 10:22:36 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 10:22:36 PM
Agreed.
"Hey, what's that? What's that on the ground over there? Is that the script?"
"Hey, what's that? What's that on the ground over there? Is that the script?"
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 18, 2019, 12:42:19 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 18, 2019, 12:42:19 AM
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: 426Buddy on Jan 18, 2019, 04:24:04 AM
Post by: 426Buddy on Jan 18, 2019, 04:24:04 AM
Resurrection is a better film than both AvP's.
At the same time AvP is pure gold compared to the absolute dumpster fire that is Requiem.
At the same time AvP is pure gold compared to the absolute dumpster fire that is Requiem.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:33:04 AM
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:33:04 AM
Going off Event Horizon alone, Anderson should have been a perfect choice for an Alien-esque film. Unfortunately, that wasn't what we got.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 18, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Post by: The Kurgan on Jan 18, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:33:04 AM
Going off Event Horizon alone, Anderson should have been a perfect choice for an Alien-esque film. Unfortunately, that wasn't what we got.
I may be in the minority here but i think the best part of Event Horizon is the script, which boasts some really great ideas, but not so much the execution.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Jutland on Jan 18, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
Post by: Jutland on Jan 18, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
Event Horizon is weird. It's not actually a very good film. Yet it's somehow watchable and absorbing. It's one of the few non-current films that we quote at work and everyone over a certain age gets it ("why's your report so rubbish?" 'It's been to hell and back!!!").
Personally I would rather have Event Horizon kept for posterity than the whole of Jeunet's output. But that is just an opinion :laugh:
Personally I would rather have Event Horizon kept for posterity than the whole of Jeunet's output. But that is just an opinion :laugh:
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 18, 2019, 07:52:15 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 18, 2019, 07:52:15 PM
Taking a quick detour and making a less serious movie can work, if done right, and with respect for the franchise. Jeunet handled the "wacky" aspects of Resurrection fairly well. But mixed in with all that humorous business, was some very serious content and a basically watchable alien story. Anderson had it in him (at the time) to make a good movie out of AVP, but for reasons that others could no doubt explain much better than I, it just didn't work out that way. His work with the RE movies definitely confirms (for me) that he is certainly no longer a good choice for any future films.
But, Anderson didn't flat-out murder the entire thing like Black did with The Predator. I'll give him that. And at least Jeunet kept the humor under control. Granted, it still felt more like one of the novels than the other films. It was cheesy, but workable cheesy.
But, Anderson didn't flat-out murder the entire thing like Black did with The Predator. I'll give him that. And at least Jeunet kept the humor under control. Granted, it still felt more like one of the novels than the other films. It was cheesy, but workable cheesy.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 19, 2019, 02:35:11 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 19, 2019, 02:35:11 AM
Event Horizon is brilliant, the 27% it's got on RT makes it very puzzling. The rating probably effected AVP, I don't know if that was the studio's fault or his.
After that though all of Anderson's movies had that cheap B movie Jason Statham feel about them. Event Horizon in hindsight was probably just a fluke.
After that though all of Anderson's movies had that cheap B movie Jason Statham feel about them. Event Horizon in hindsight was probably just a fluke.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Stitch on Jan 19, 2019, 06:20:19 PM
Post by: Stitch on Jan 19, 2019, 06:20:19 PM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 19, 2019, 02:35:11 AMEvent Horizon in hindsight was probably just a fluke.Well, he also did Mortal Kombat, which is arguably the best video game adaptation of all time (in regards to following the game story, at least). The first Resident Evil movie wasn't too bad, either. After that, though...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jan 20, 2019, 01:30:48 AM
Post by: Huggs on Jan 20, 2019, 01:30:48 AM
I've yet to see it. I've been putting it off since I found out who directed it.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AM
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
I dunno, there's not much like it, spooky ghost ship in space. Good acting, disturbing scenes, it's got proper jump scares too.
Rez evil movie's are constructed exactly like AVP, the concept is good, but it's ultimately let down by bad editing, bad shots and average acting. The first encounter in AVP is a good example, it's kinda hard to tell whats going on, you've got 19 foot Alien tails, something happening with the net, weird flashes of stuff happening.
That pyramid they were in genuinely felt like it was about the size of a Caravan.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Absolutely not. Never saw a more soporific movie at the time.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
Post by: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
Quote from: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AMEvent Horizon had some sloppy designs and the final cut didn't help either.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
I dunno, there's not much like it, spooky ghost ship in space. Good acting, disturbing scenes, it's got proper jump scares too.
Rez evil movie's are constructed exactly like AVP, the concept is good, but it's ultimately let down by bad editing, bad shots and average acting. The first encounter in AVP is a good example, it's kinda hard to tell whats going on, you've got 19 foot Alien tails, something happening with the net, weird flashes of stuff happening.
That pyramid they were in genuinely felt like it was about the size of a Caravan.
It was quite solid for what it was, hell raiser kind of clone in space. But there's a nice thesis on design that refers to the use of the rotating captains chair which makes no sense whatsoever and the hamfisted use of some special plugging device was ill conceived as well.
Compare this to how subtle Alien looked while doing essentially the same.
It's just not a very good film, but just entertaining enough to be quite forgiving.
Same applies to AvP: it flows so much better than Requiem, it has better use of characters, it references the classic comics for the predators to a degree.
It just f**ks up the timeline and established lore for both franchises, all to try and reinvent the wheel.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Wysps on Jan 22, 2019, 11:59:11 PM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 22, 2019, 11:59:11 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PMQuote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Absolutely not. Never saw a more soporific movie at the time.
Have to agree. It's been many years since I've seen Event Horizon, but I can only remember it for its 'disturbing-ness' and nothing else.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Highland on Jan 23, 2019, 02:28:54 AM
Post by: Highland on Jan 23, 2019, 02:28:54 AM
I don't think it's fair to compare Event Horizon to Alien, different ball games.
I mean if your benchmark is Alien, you're not gona like many films.
I mean if your benchmark is Alien, you're not gona like many films.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 23, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 23, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 22, 2019, 11:59:11 PMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PMQuote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Absolutely not. Never saw a more soporific movie at the time.
Have to agree. It's been many years since I've seen Event Horizon, but I can only remember it for its 'disturbing-ness' and nothing else.
Actually i was referring to the first Resident Evil movie ;)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Wysps on Jan 23, 2019, 11:52:55 PM
Post by: Wysps on Jan 23, 2019, 11:52:55 PM
Oops :laugh: :laugh:
That's my issue with AvP. If I could say one positive thing about Requiem, it's that it didn't touch the Predator lore as much as AvP did. Still much prefer it to the latter, but if they instead tried to focus on the original storyline instead of adding in the cooperative civilization stuff between humans and Predators...
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 08:57:03 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AMEvent Horizon had some sloppy designs and the final cut didn't help either.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
I dunno, there's not much like it, spooky ghost ship in space. Good acting, disturbing scenes, it's got proper jump scares too.
Rez evil movie's are constructed exactly like AVP, the concept is good, but it's ultimately let down by bad editing, bad shots and average acting. The first encounter in AVP is a good example, it's kinda hard to tell whats going on, you've got 19 foot Alien tails, something happening with the net, weird flashes of stuff happening.
That pyramid they were in genuinely felt like it was about the size of a Caravan.
It was quite solid for what it was, hell raiser kind of clone in space. But there's a nice thesis on design that refers to the use of the rotating captains chair which makes no sense whatsoever and the hamfisted use of some special plugging device was ill conceived as well.
Compare this to how subtle Alien looked while doing essentially the same.
It's just not a very good film, but just entertaining enough to be quite forgiving.
Same applies to AvP: it flows so much better than Requiem, it has better use of characters, it references the classic comics for the predators to a degree.
It just f**ks up the timeline and established lore for both franchises, all to try and reinvent the wheel.
That's my issue with AvP. If I could say one positive thing about Requiem, it's that it didn't touch the Predator lore as much as AvP did. Still much prefer it to the latter, but if they instead tried to focus on the original storyline instead of adding in the cooperative civilization stuff between humans and Predators...
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Nameless 1 on Jan 25, 2019, 01:18:54 AM
Post by: Nameless 1 on Jan 25, 2019, 01:18:54 AM
Sad, but not surprised to see another writer blame the reception on "toxic" fans rather than the poor quality of the writing itself. You can do a different approach/formula, but if said changes contradict the lore/logic established by previous movies, games, and books, then it is going to cause problems with the story and the fan's reception.
I think it's a disservice to the fans to claim that they don't understand the difficulty of getting a film made. It gives us little to no credit, and comes off as whining that the problem is the fans, not the movie.
It's somehow become alright to blame fans for not liking a movie/product, rather than the product not being what the fans/audience/customers want.
Nothing I've seen, read, or heard in the original sciript convinces me that Black/Dekker did enough research into the lore or touched base with the fans to make sure they were making a movie the fans would want to see. The fact that they had the well made suit predator quickly killed by their "awesome" Upgrade predator is evidence of this. That scene alone was enough to turn many viewers off of the film.
I'm sure Black/Dekker worked hard on the script, but there were reactions and criticisms of said script way before the filming commenced. They could have taken said criticism to heart and course corrected, but they chose not to, as was their decision. The reception the film received is directly on them, not because of so-called toxic fans.
A wise director/writer would use this experience to develop/improve their craft, rather than make excuses.
I think it's a disservice to the fans to claim that they don't understand the difficulty of getting a film made. It gives us little to no credit, and comes off as whining that the problem is the fans, not the movie.
It's somehow become alright to blame fans for not liking a movie/product, rather than the product not being what the fans/audience/customers want.
Nothing I've seen, read, or heard in the original sciript convinces me that Black/Dekker did enough research into the lore or touched base with the fans to make sure they were making a movie the fans would want to see. The fact that they had the well made suit predator quickly killed by their "awesome" Upgrade predator is evidence of this. That scene alone was enough to turn many viewers off of the film.
I'm sure Black/Dekker worked hard on the script, but there were reactions and criticisms of said script way before the filming commenced. They could have taken said criticism to heart and course corrected, but they chose not to, as was their decision. The reception the film received is directly on them, not because of so-called toxic fans.
A wise director/writer would use this experience to develop/improve their craft, rather than make excuses.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 25, 2019, 08:16:22 PM
Post by: Predwars24 on Jan 25, 2019, 08:16:22 PM
As a Writer myself it seems a bit whiny to blame anything but yourself. When you write a movie you're supposed to do your research, even if you don't like it. When in school and you write an essay about I don't know let's just say something about the book Night by Ellie Wiesel, you can't get an A on the essay unless you have read the book. Writing a screenplay is very similar and that if it's a sequel in a movie franchise you can't make a good movie unless you're consistent with the rest. This whole movie is turning to be a scenario similar to Gremlins 2, where it almost felt like it wasn't even in the same universe as the original as it's so different from it. Point is if you make a bad movie you don't go blaming whoever or whatever for the situation, unless you're like the whole Suicide Squad production where they literally rushed a script in six weeks, then you have no excuses. If you make a bad movie own up to it and do better, that's all you can do.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Space_Dementia on Jan 28, 2019, 12:13:42 AM
Post by: Space_Dementia on Jan 28, 2019, 12:13:42 AM
So last night I watched the film for the second time, first being at the cinema on its first day of release... ... wow this film is a mess... I didn't quite grasp how bad the script was first time around, but after watching it last night, its hard to believe this movie was co-written by Shane Black as well as directed... I sorta enjoy the movie but nothing really gels, it trys to build the characters but goes no where with them, the film is directionless... the actual steelbook that I purchased from Zavvi is better than the movie.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jun 24, 2019, 06:04:04 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jun 24, 2019, 06:04:04 PM
It's a amazing directionless waste of budget.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: Huggs on Jun 24, 2019, 07:30:23 PM
Post by: Huggs on Jun 24, 2019, 07:30:23 PM
Would've been more entertaining as an audible drama.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jun 24, 2019, 07:35:48 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jun 24, 2019, 07:35:48 PM
You're probably right, and maybe for the "The Predator" by Audible timeline,
the biggest Predator film budget maybe existed yet for a good script.
the biggest Predator film budget maybe existed yet for a good script.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 25, 2019, 12:24:52 AM
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 25, 2019, 12:24:52 AM
This thread brought back to life....
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/HfeMjUZdOZujm/giphy.gif)
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/HfeMjUZdOZujm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Samhain13 on Jun 25, 2019, 12:36:13 AM
Post by: Samhain13 on Jun 25, 2019, 12:36:13 AM
Necroposting is getting into all the boards.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The Predator Killer Ending
Post by: Stitch on Jun 25, 2019, 02:13:52 PM
Post by: Stitch on Jun 25, 2019, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jun 25, 2019, 12:36:13 AMNight of the Living Threads
Necroposting is getting into all the boards.
But in all seriousness, maybe The Predator would have been better as an audible drama.
Title: Re: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...
Post by: The Old One on Jul 06, 2019, 06:31:21 PM
Post by: The Old One on Jul 06, 2019, 06:31:21 PM
Indeed.