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We have just uploaded the 126th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Happy Alien Day! Since it’s Alien Day, we naturally wanted to bring you a special episode with some awesome guests, and for this episode we’re talking to none other than Amalgamated Dynamic Inc’s Alec Gillis and Tom Woodruff Jr!

We talk Alien 3 myths, telling fibs, AvP Requiem’s unused hydraulic PredAlien, Sigourney Weaver posing naked with an Alien suit, a novelization of Tom’s Alien: Salvation concept and plenty more!

What did you think of our latest episode? Be sure to let us know down below! You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. The Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast is also available via iTunes, PodBean, GooglePlay Stitcher, and Spotify! Please be sure to leave a rating and review on whichever platform you're using!

And if you'd rather see our beautiful faces, as always the video version of the podcast is also available on the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy YouTube channel!

If you're still jonesing for more Alien discussion check out some of our previous Alien Day specials where we had the pleasure of talking to other legendary figures within the Alien universe such as Aliens’ very own Carrie Henn, the father of the Expanded Universe Mark Verheiden, and Alien: Covenant’s backburster victim Ben Rigby!

Make sure your browsers are locked into Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest Alien and Predator news! You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to get the latest on your social media walls. Be sure to join in with fellow Alien and Predator fans on our forums as well!

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The wookie cristmas special of AVP movies.

Excellent! Will give this a listen ASAP :)

Haven't listened yet but do you mention by chance certain issues with Predator faces and broken jaws?

Looking forward to listening to this! Going to save it for when I have a nice long drive.

Quote from: shadowedge on Apr 26, 2021, 04:05:58 PM
Haven't listened yet but do you mention by chance certain issues with Predator faces and broken jaws?

I believe it has already been asked in an earlier interview.

I thought hearing them describe how closely run they were for the job for AvP with Stan Winston was insightful and dare I say it, a bit depressing  :(

Supremely likeable fellas and a good interview.

That was great! Definitely lived up to its billing, Hicks. Good job to you and Ridgetop. Cheers to Tom Woodruff and Alec Gillis for giving you such an enjoyable interview. That's too bad about the sourness that developed with Giger. I recall Giger complained bitterly about the creche scene in Resurrection because it's structured a lot like his painting, The Traveler.

I can't prove it, but the sense I get from Giger interviews and articles I've seen is that he resented people using his sourcework as reference (ie the Necronomicon books) and he called that "stealing his work." From those sources and from this interview, it seems Woodruff and Gillis got stuffed into the "stealing Giger's work" camp. Giger was also very unhappy with the look of the Resurrection aliens for both the amount of goo applied to the suits and the softer, more organic look of the creatures. His terms were most unflattering, and he emphasized his preference for aesthetic monsters. Sorry, I don't have the source for that.

I do have a little snippet of video from somewhere. In it, Giger clearly states he does not have Li's skeleton. He is asked about it and answers, "I'm not mad. No that's not true." He also talks about the skull in the head of the Alien. He had a collection of skulls, including a shrunken head. Giger was an interesting fellow.

Great listen.

Was nice to have something Alien related to listen to at work for Alien Day.

Nice one, great chat with the ADI guys who always come across as very likable.

Interesting how close it came between them and Stan Winston to do the AVP practical effects.

I never knew there was an animatronic PredAlien built. Any pics of that available?

Great interview! I always like hearing/watching anything from these guys, they're always fun to listen to. And you asked some good questions!

I had no idea they'd made an animatronic Predalien! Never even saw any pictures of it. And I remember hearing about the kid seeing one of their earlier designs and a producer asking for changes as a result, but I didn't realise they were somewhat unhappy with the final version as a result. Yeah there are some aspects of it I might tweak a bit, but overall I like it.

That was funny to see Tom's reaction to you knowing the title of his planned Alien film too, forgetting that he'd mentioned it in a prior interview. :laugh: It certainly would be cool to see it come to fruition one day, even if it was just in comic book form. Shame he never got round to writing it all out last year, but then I'm about the last person who can get on anyone's back about procrastinating! :D

Great stuff, definitely looking forward to that future one of Tom talking about his suit performing too!

QuoteGiger was also very unhappy with the look of the Resurrection aliens for both the amount of goo applied to the suits and the softer, more organic look of the creatures. His terms were most unflattering, and he emphasized his preference for aesthetic monsters. Sorry, I don't have the source for that.

How about this?

In his first letter, Giger writes,"The creatures in Alien:Resurrection are even closer to my original Alien designs than the ones which appear in Aliens and Alien3. The film also resurrects my original designs for the other stages of the creature's life-cycle, the Eggs, the Facehugger and the Chestburster. Alien:Resurrection is an excellent film. What would it look like without my Alien life-forms? In all likelihood, all the sequels to Alien would not even exist! The designs and my credit have been stolen from me, since I alone have designed the Alien. So why does not Fox give me the credit I rightfully earned?".

Source (https://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htmhttps://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htm)

Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2021, 01:59:29 AM
{quote]In his first letter, Giger writes,"The creatures in Alien:Resurrection are even closer to my original Alien designs than the ones which appear in Aliens and Alien3. The film also resurrects my original designs for the other stages of the creature's life-cycle, the Eggs, the Facehugger and the Chestburster. Alien:Resurrection is an excellent film. What would it look like without my Alien life-forms? In all likelihood, all the sequels to Alien would not even exist! The designs and my credit have been stolen from me, since I alone have designed the Alien. So why does not Fox give me the credit I rightfully earned?".

Source (https://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htmhttps://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htm)

wait.. Whut?

:o :o   :o

I can't believe Giger said that. But even so, how is it possible that the xeno clones of Resurrection are closer to his Alien.. is it because of the dome? Or am I missing something ???

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/tenor-60fff58e7b4a4ea7b.gif)

He much later states his not so kind thoughts on the designs presented in the film, in opposition to his thoughts on them in his letter attempting to gain credit for the original design, during the Charles de Lauzirika Directed One Step Beyond Alien Resurrection documentary.

But to be fair he never directly mentions the adult in his letter and that's what he primarily criticises during the documentary.

As I have said repeatedly before.

OK, I get it now.

I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/alien-resurrection-hybrid-theory/

quote

Giger continued that "Woodruff, an excellent effects specialist, said about his 'Alien Viper's Nest': 'It is like an HR Giger's painting come to life.' Yes, it is. It has been newly stolen from my book Necronomicon. As photographed from above, you will see that it is a section of my painting Passagen-Tempel/Eingangspartie (Passage Temple/entrance section) Work #262. This painting existed three years before the first Alien movie had even started to be filmed."

Fox, in the end, restored Giger's credit for Resurrection's home release, but this did not spare them from the artist's pointed thoughts on what the studio had done with his Alien after taking it out of his hands.

    "I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."
    ~ HR Giger, Alien Evolution, 2001.

endquote

Contradicting statements?  Heavens!

Neither Giger nor Fox never gave Roger Dicken his proper due for the facehugger and chestburster that ended up on screen, and were both better than Giger's designs.

So it goes.

He's obviously not going to be critical when complaining about rights. "These things look like shit, give me credit for them!"

Of course.

Nevertheless he went on the record praising the film and the creature work.

I think what he actually thought's more important.

Of course you're going to think what you think is more important.

Do you know what I think?

H.R Giger expressed more frequently an unkind opinion.

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

It was a time issue unfortunately. Tom was only going to be around for an hour, but we managed to keep him on longer because he was enjoying himself, but it did involve snipping back quite a few questions. We had a lot to ask them. That said, I feel like we've asked them that before? In Adam's studio visit, maybe?

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 05:46:48 AM
Do you know what I think?

H.R Giger expressed more frequently an unkind opinion.

XenoHunter99's correct.

True.  I just totally made that Giger quote up.  Well played.

Did anyone say he only had unkind things to say?

Did I question the legitimacy of that quote?

Roger Dickens.Since we want to wander all over the map here, Here's a nice article about Roger Dickens and his involvement in Alien. I think it touches on salient points.

https://www.scified.com/news/roger-dicken-life-in-small-forms

Did Dickens get enough credit? IDK. Did he demand it? IDK. I suspect for him, it was just another job. Hard to believe hanging out here, but Giger and Alien are not a religion for everyone. Some people have never even heard of him or seen any of the movies. I know that's not right, but it's true. :laugh:

Both quotes are best taken in context. One is politically astute, the other is perhaps an expression of his deeper feelings on the matter. Contradiction? I'll go with Walt Whitman on that one.

The quote I referenced along with other info in Valaquen's article speak to my main point: Fair or not, Woodruff and Gillis got lumped in with the people "stealing Giger's art." From the interview with them, we know that was never the intention.

If Giger really wanted to be involved with A3 and have maximum input, he should have gone to London. I can also understand why he didn't do that. He talks about it in the Giger's Alien book, among other places. In a movie production, the hours are long, he hated the compromises, and so on. Even so, he was disappointed that Cameron did not invite him to participate in Aliens. Maybe by the time A3 rolled around, he didn't want the hassle. Hard to say and no one can ask him.

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

Perfect Organism host Jaime Praiter did an interview with ADI guys back in 2018 and asked about their opinions on prequels

https://perfectorganism.podbean.com/e/75-interview-with-alec-gillis-and-tom-woodruff-jr-of-amalgamated-dynamics-inc/ (https://perfectorganism.podbean.com/e/75-interview-with-alec-gillis-and-tom-woodruff-jr-of-amalgamated-dynamics-inc/)

---

Anyway, that was a great listen. The way Tom and Alec speak it looks like they very much aware of their somewhat notorious fame amongst some fans lol . Also, it seemed to me like Alec talked A LOT while Tom just occasionally threw in couple of sentences

Jonesy, have you liked their response to your question ?  ;D

Unless you're referring to @Nukiemorph, who used to be a jonesy, I never asked a question.

Hmmm, I can swear I've heard Hicks saying "Immortan Jonesy". I'll need to check it now. One moment

You heard wrong, my Ukrainian friend. I never participate in this kind of activities.

https://youtu.be/8PBiu3HnHjE?t=6886 (https://youtu.be/8PBiu3HnHjE?t=6886)

Ok, have a listen yourself

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 28, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
https://youtu.be/8PBiu3HnHjE?t=6886 (https://youtu.be/8PBiu3HnHjE?t=6886)

Ok, have a listen yourself

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/57h1lj.gif)

Oh my gosh 🎶 i feel like a grandpa🙈I really didn't remember asking that. The answer was priceles$ though  :laugh:

Edit: I'm afraid the boy I have possessed is not rich enough to finance the Space Jockey animatronic.  :'(

Thank you, Hicks!  :)

Edit2.0 ~ and Kradan for making me remember ;D

No worries  ;)

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 28, 2021, 03:21:35 PM

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

Perfect Organism host Jaime Praiter did an interview with ADI guys back in 2018 and asked about their opinions on prequels

https://perfectorganism.podbean.com/e/75-interview-with-alec-gillis-and-tom-woodruff-jr-of-amalgamated-dynamics-inc/

For anyone interested it's around an hour in.

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 06:50:56 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 28, 2021, 03:21:35 PM

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

Perfect Organism host Jaime Praiter did an interview with ADI guys back in 2018 and asked about their opinions on prequels

https://perfectorganism.podbean.com/e/75-interview-with-alec-gillis-and-tom-woodruff-jr-of-amalgamated-dynamics-inc/

For anyone interested it's around an hour in.

Thank you.

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 06:50:56 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 28, 2021, 03:21:35 PM

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 28, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
I for the most part enjoyed the interview a lot, I'm surprised no one asked them their thoughts on Prometheus and Covenant, and also the 40th Anniversary Films from the standpoint of their profession.

Perfect Organism host Jaime Praiter did an interview with ADI guys back in 2018 and asked about their opinions on prequels

https://perfectorganism.podbean.com/e/75-interview-with-alec-gillis-and-tom-woodruff-jr-of-amalgamated-dynamics-inc/

For anyone interested it's around an hour in.

Yeah, I probably should've mentioned that before. Whoops. Sorry everybody  ;D

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Apr 28, 2021, 03:03:06 PM
Roger Dickens.Since we want to wander all over the map here, Here's a nice article about Roger Dickens and his involvement in Alien. I think it touches on salient points.

https://www.scified.com/news/roger-dicken-life-in-small-forms

Did Dickens get enough credit? IDK. Did he demand it? IDK. I suspect for him, it was just another job. Hard to believe hanging out here, but Giger and Alien are not a religion for everyone. Some people have never even heard of him or seen any of the movies. I know that's not right, but it's true. :laugh:

...

There was a Starburst magazine I read in which Roger Dickens was interviewed. He talked about the facehugger and chestburster, and came across as rather jaded by the whole affair, pretty much as in the Scified article.

One idea he had was to put rose thorns on the fingers of the facehugger, making it look more aggressive.

He also thought punching the chestburster up through Kane's torso was the least effective way of doing it. He wanted the wound to appear first, and then some fingers to push through (I guess reminiscent of the facehugger). Then the fingers would be followed by a pair of tiny hands and they would proceed to pull the rest of the chestburster out of the torso, squirming its way through the hole in Kane's chest.

So...  after reading this as a small kid I had to lie down and recuperate.

TC

Quote from: TC on Apr 30, 2021, 05:11:17 PM
He also thought punching the chestburster up through Kane's torso was the least effective way of doing it. He wanted the wound to appear first, and then some fingers to push through (I guess reminiscent of the facehugger). Then the fingers would be followed by a pair of tiny hands and they would proceed to pull the rest of the chestburster out of the torso, squirming its way through the hole in Kane's chest.

All I can imagine is this:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/15d7915ad8c90ba06c3fc868b6699c02/46745775e09e8d2d-b1/s540x810/ccd155984091ba311b2d318926a092bc867fb090.gifv)

Yeah, that's exactly what Dickens was thinking!

And Ash would flick off the lights as the chestburster is emerging, making a more comfortable environment, 'cause, you know... Light bright... Light bright!

TC

They even tried it, hence the vestigial arms, but they couldn't get it to work. So they cut the arms off and went back to ramming the sucker out.

Reminds me of Alien Engineers' script.

Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2021, 01:59:29 AM

QuoteGiger was also very unhappy with the look of the Resurrection aliens for both the amount of goo applied to the suits and the softer, more organic look of the creatures. His terms were most unflattering, and he emphasized his preference for aesthetic monsters. Sorry, I don't have the source for that.

How about this?

In his first letter, Giger writes,"The creatures in Alien:Resurrection are even closer to my original Alien designs than the ones which appear in Aliens and Alien3. The film also resurrects my original designs for the other stages of the creature's life-cycle, the Eggs, the Facehugger and the Chestburster. Alien:Resurrection is an excellent film. What would it look like without my Alien life-forms? In all likelihood, all the sequels to Alien would not even exist! The designs and my credit have been stolen from me, since I alone have designed the Alien. So why does not Fox give me the credit I rightfully earned?".

Source (https://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htmhttps://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htm)

Let's keep in mind Giger at the time was fighting for a credit in the film; his words are rather deliberate here. If he said they didn't reflect his work, he could have tanked his own argument.

In 2001 he said about the Resurrection Aliens: "I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."

(I know it's been addressed. Just a little devil's advocacy  :laugh:)

Yeah, a little context is definitely important in regard to that discussion.

Thanks Valaquen! I should have taken the moment to look up your article on my initial post.

TC, we don't get Starburst in the US - At least I've never seen it. We had Starlog and Fantastic Films. Good to get corroboration on the Dickens article. If they could have done it right, that birth you described could have been great! "So...  after reading this as a small kid I had to lie down and recuperate."  :laugh:

Yes Kradan, I'm sure that' s exactly what Dickens wanted to do. ::) :P  ;D

Quote from: Valaquen on May 01, 2021, 12:02:02 PM
In 2001 he said about the Resurrection Aliens: "I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."

Top tier H.R Giger

Quote from: Valaquen on May 01, 2021, 12:02:02 PM

Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2021, 01:59:29 AM

QuoteGiger was also very unhappy with the look of the Resurrection aliens for both the amount of goo applied to the suits and the softer, more organic look of the creatures. His terms were most unflattering, and he emphasized his preference for aesthetic monsters. Sorry, I don't have the source for that.

How about this?

In his first letter, Giger writes,"The creatures in Alien:Resurrection are even closer to my original Alien designs than the ones which appear in Aliens and Alien3. The film also resurrects my original designs for the other stages of the creature's life-cycle, the Eggs, the Facehugger and the Chestburster. Alien:Resurrection is an excellent film. What would it look like without my Alien life-forms? In all likelihood, all the sequels to Alien would not even exist! The designs and my credit have been stolen from me, since I alone have designed the Alien. So why does not Fox give me the credit I rightfully earned?".

Source (https://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htmhttps://hrgiger.com/alien4-press.htm)

Let's keep in mind Giger at the time was fighting for a credit in the film; his words are rather deliberate here. If he said they didn't reflect his work, he could have tanked his own argument.

In 2001 he said about the Resurrection Aliens: "I always wanted my Alien to be a very beautiful thing, not just something disgusting, not just a monster, but something aesthetic. Throughout the creature's evolution what they've done is change it from something aesthetic to something that looks like shit – I mean literally, it looks like a turd."

(I know it's been addressed. Just a little devil's advocacy  :laugh:)

I knew about the turd remark and looked for it on Giger's website. Couldn't find it.

I wish we had video of him saying it.  His accent would sell it even better.

Quote from: SM on May 01, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
I knew about the turd remark and looked for it on Giger's website. Couldn't find it.

Quote from: Local Trouble on May 01, 2021, 11:32:21 PM
I wish we had video of him saying it.  His accent would sell it even better.

Look for it on the Alien Evolution documentary from 2001. Giger is dubbed, however.

Mmm I get why he would say that. Can't find the documentary though, would love to hear it  ;D

*deleted

Let's keep on topic folk. Don't appreciate that little derail.

Ok sorry for that  :-X it's just that I found it funny  :laugh:

Here's the transcription from the interview: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alec-gillis-tom-woodruff-2/

Yeah, good work. The Giger stuff was interesting. I just feel sorry for him that it ended up like that. But it's understandable, the studio just wanted to crack on with the movie and Giger didn't want to sort of be on set to work on it. I can't seem to find the Cinemafantastique article they mentioned.

Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
Here's the transcription from the interview: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alec-gillis-tom-woodruff-2/

Yeah, good work. The Giger stuff was interesting. I just feel sorry for him that it ended up like that. But it's understandable, the studio just wanted to crack on with the movie and Giger didn't want to sort of be on set to work on it. I can't seem to find the Cinemafantastique article they mentioned.

Hi Darkness.  I think the Cinefantastique article Alec mentions regarding Alien 3 might be in the off-shoot Cinefantastique magazine Imagi-Movies from spring 1994 Click (https://archive.org/details/Imagi-Movies_v01n03_Spring_1994/page/n17/mode/2up) But I could be wrong.  I'm basing my guess on Alec's 'nice coincidence' comment.  On the top left of p19, they talk about the removal of the "tailpipes" from the creatures back which ends with 'It was a very welcome coincidence'.

And I think, but again guessing, the Aliens article mentioned that Gale Anne Hurd was upset about was this one Click (https://archive.org/details/cinefantastique_1970-2002/Cinefantastique%20Vol%2016%20No%203%20%28July%201986%29/page/n15/mode/2up)  Thought I'd try to find it in case anyone was interested.

Thank you for the transcription Darkness  :)

Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
Here's the transcription from the interview: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alec-gillis-tom-woodruff-2/

Yeah, good work. The Giger stuff was interesting. I just feel sorry for him that it ended up like that. But it's understandable, the studio just wanted to crack on with the movie and Giger didn't want to sort of be on set to work on it. I can't seem to find the Cinemafantastique article they mentioned.

Thanks!  :D

---

Quote from: AVPGALAXYAdam: Tom, what you mentioned with the combination of practical and other types of effects, kind of leads into another question I had. I would say there was a time in the early 2000s where you had very strong harmony of practical and digital seen quite prominently in films like AvP as well as others like Jurassic Park 3 where you had digital and practical effects interacting with each other in the same shots.

There was a shift more towards digital for a while but it seems like that earlier harmony may be returning. In particular we've seen really strong practical effects and even older techniques like Phil Tippet's go motion return in The Mandalorian along with very new special effect techniques such as the impressive digital sets that they use. Do you see a renaissance of practical effects in today's quickly changing entertainment landscape?

Alec: Yeah, I think there's a lot of talk about it which has become... maybe a decade ago it feels like they were talking a lot about it and we kind of got the feeling on a couple of productions that we were building things just so that they could say "We've got practical!". Like it's whatever a studio feels will help sell the movie.

That is a very interesting question. Also I agree with what they answered. And in the case of The Mandalorian's crew, they really are killing two birds with one shot. Making a Star Wars live-action series out of pure CGI would be very expensive, plus they know that a considerable number of fans love the OT-style practical effects. The virtual sets are a cinema breakthrough indeed.

Edit~ I know RidgeTop is not a big fan of Prometheus, but I think that was a quite recent & good example of a balance between practical effects and CGI.  ;D ;)

---

Quote from:  ADIAlec: Oh, the giant thing that you see in that scene. The giant one was just brought to us by I think by I think Prop Store brought it over... oh actually we were using it as reference. It was a fiberglass casting of the original. We used it as sculptural reference just to get... because Neill's deal was, he wanted to get back to the feeling of the '79 Alien and we were asking "You're a master of photoreal CGI. Why aren't you doing the CGI?" He said "Because having something real forces you into shooting it in a way that will look like what Ridley Scott did in 1979".  That's what he wanted. So, there's a guy that is a master of CGI who understands that it is a tool to be used to get certain results that are right for certain stories. But that's why that was there.

Wow, that makes me happy and sad at the same time.  :o

---

Quote from: AVP GALAXYAaron: We do have just a handful of community questions from community members so ImmortalJonesy in particular would like to know if you'd have any interest in taking a crack at a Space Jockey animatronic?

Tom: Yeah, it'd be great. Any anything iconic in this whole world of Aliens and Predators is a really... it's just such a cool thing to be able to look at something that inspired you 40 years ago and actually be able to put your thumb print on it, particularly with movement and motion and character performance.

Glad to hear they would like to make it if they could.  :)

I asked that question because Alec Gillis and his studio have done a wonderful job when it comes to animatronic characters. And I'm not just talking about science fiction, as is the case with the gorilla suit they made for Old Dogs. It's a top tier piece of practical effect.  8)


I also liked their criminally unused pilot in the 2011 prequel to The Thing. Whether that creature got infected by the Thing and crashes it's spaceship million of years ago becoming a Jockey to so speak is subject of speculation.  :laugh:

Still the closedt thing of a SJ performed by ADI studios in my opinion.  8)


I know we have Engineers, who are superior to the jockeys in the comics ~ but you know ~ nerd dreams.  :laugh:

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 09, 2021, 12:45:37 AM

Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
Here's the transcription from the interview: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alec-gillis-tom-woodruff-2/

Yeah, good work. The Giger stuff was interesting. I just feel sorry for him that it ended up like that. But it's understandable, the studio just wanted to crack on with the movie and Giger didn't want to sort of be on set to work on it. I can't seem to find the Cinemafantastique article they mentioned.

Thanks!  :D

---

Quote from: AVPGALAXYAdam: Tom, what you mentioned with the combination of practical and other types of effects, kind of leads into another question I had. I would say there was a time in the early 2000s where you had very strong harmony of practical and digital seen quite prominently in films like AvP as well as others like Jurassic Park 3 where you had digital and practical effects interacting with each other in the same shots.

There was a shift more towards digital for a while but it seems like that earlier harmony may be returning. In particular we've seen really strong practical effects and even older techniques like Phil Tippet's go motion return in The Mandalorian along with very new special effect techniques such as the impressive digital sets that they use. Do you see a renaissance of practical effects in today's quickly changing entertainment landscape?

Alec: Yeah, I think there's a lot of talk about it which has become... maybe a decade ago it feels like they were talking a lot about it and we kind of got the feeling on a couple of productions that we were building things just so that they could say "We've got practical!". Like it's whatever a studio feels will help sell the movie.

That is a very interesting question. Also I agree with what they answered. And in the case of The Mandalorian's crew, they really are killing two birds with one shot. Making a Star Wars live-action series out of pure CGI would be very expensive, plus they know that a considerable number of fans love the OT-style practical effects. The virtual sets are a cinema breakthrough indeed.

Edit~ I know RidgeTop is not a big fan of Prometheus, but I think that was a quite recent & good example of a balance between practical effects and CGI.  ;D ;)

---

Quote from:  ADIAlec: Oh, the giant thing that you see in that scene. The giant one was just brought to us by I think by I think Prop Store brought it over... oh actually we were using it as reference. It was a fiberglass casting of the original. We used it as sculptural reference just to get... because Neill's deal was, he wanted to get back to the feeling of the '79 Alien and we were asking "You're a master of photoreal CGI. Why aren't you doing the CGI?" He said "Because having something real forces you into shooting it in a way that will look like what Ridley Scott did in 1979".  That's what he wanted. So, there's a guy that is a master of CGI who understands that it is a tool to be used to get certain results that are right for certain stories. But that's why that was there.

Wow, that makes me happy and sad at the same time.  :o

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Quote from: AVP GALAXYAaron: We do have just a handful of community questions from community members so ImmortalJonesy in particular would like to know if you'd have any interest in taking a crack at a Space Jockey animatronic?

Tom: Yeah, it'd be great. Any anything iconic in this whole world of Aliens and Predators is a really... it's just such a cool thing to be able to look at something that inspired you 40 years ago and actually be able to put your thumb print on it, particularly with movement and motion and character performance.

Glad to hear they would like to make it if they could.  :)

I asked that question because Alec Gillis and his studio have done a wonderful job when it comes to animatronic characters. And I'm not just talking about science fiction, as is the case with the gorilla suit they made for Old Dogs. It's a top tier piece of practical effect.  8)

I also liked their criminally unused pilot in the 2011 prequel to The Thing. Whether that creature got infected by the Thing and crashes it's spaceship million of years ago becoming a Jockey to so speak is subject of speculation.  :laugh:

Still the closedt thing of a SJ performed by ADI studios in my opinion.  8)

I know we have Engineers, who are superior to the jockeys in the comics ~ but you know ~ nerd dreams.  :laugh:

The last one was supposed to be in The Thing 2011 ? Cool !

Yep, it was the pilot creature, which was then replaced by the big digital game of Tetris.

 :laugh:

That pilot creature looks absolutely disgusting. In the best way possible

It sure is gooey! I wonder how screening audiences reacted to it.

Wasn't that the story, where test audiences complained about The Thing 2011's practical fx (among other things) and everyone acknowledged improvements needed to be made in areas, but the debate was go CG or replace some of troublesome practical fx with improved practical fx?

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 09, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
It sure is gooey! I wonder how screening audiences reacted to it.

Wasn't that the story, where test audiences complained about The Thing 2011's practical fx (among other things) and everyone acknowledged improvements needed to be made in areas, but the debate was go CG or replace some of troublesome practical fx with improved practical fx?

Not sure but it is funny that the CGI in that film ended up being a huge complaint ha

Indeed. The creatures ended up having an interesting design though.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 09, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
It sure is gooey! I wonder how screening audiences reacted to it.

Wasn't that the story, where test audiences complained about The Thing 2011's practical fx (among other things) and everyone acknowledged improvements needed to be made in areas, but the debate was go CG or replace some of troublesome practical fx with improved practical fx?

The producers didn't seem to want to use the practical effects as early as shooting. Woodruff has a story about the guy who splits in half in the helicopter; the producers didn't like that the effect they made only looked good from certain angles. ADI explained that was kind of how practical effects worked and it was ok because that was the angle it was meant to be seen at. The producers didn't like the limitation and the effect was replaced with CGI ... Seen at exactly the angle the practical effect was designed for anyway.

#ReleaseTheADICut

#ReleaseEmissariesCut

Quote from: SiL on May 09, 2021, 08:17:53 PM

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 09, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
It sure is gooey! I wonder how screening audiences reacted to it.

Wasn't that the story, where test audiences complained about The Thing 2011's practical fx (among other things) and everyone acknowledged improvements needed to be made in areas, but the debate was go CG or replace some of troublesome practical fx with improved practical fx?

The producers didn't seem to want to use the practical effects as early as shooting. Woodruff has a story about the guy who splits in half in the helicopter; the producers didn't like that the effect they made only looked good from certain angles. ADI explained that was kind of how practical effects worked and it was ok because that was the angle it was meant to be seen at. The producers didn't like the limitation and the effect was replaced with CGI ... Seen at exactly the angle the practical effect was designed for anyway.

Here's what I remembered... The Thing 2011's Screenwriter Eric Heisserer.

Eric on the belief going in that everything should be practical:

• There's a lot of CGI in the film. While it was in development we kept hearing that the effects would be practical [Rob Bottin's groundbreaking practical effects are a hallmark of the 1982 The Thing]. When did this come into play? 
  "I got this job going in with the firm, fervid belief that no CGI should ever be in this movie. That it should be all practical. We are creating a very grounded psychological thriller and part of that paranoia with the monster movie is to have the monsters as real and as grounded as everything else we're making around them. That's not to say that I am slighting the CG department, because those guys are workhorses... [But] the last thing you want to do is take the audience out of the film. You want to have them married to the story. And I felt that, what little I saw being onset and in the dailies, the practical stuff looked great. But that's an argument that I was out of and it's an argument that I trust [director] Mattjis [van Heijningen Jr.] stuck with for as long as he could and for his reasons. While I'm not quite as qualified to talk about the specifics, I know that as a storyteller, we were all onboard with this being a practical movie."

Eric on the test screenings that changed things:

• Principal photography wrapped a while back. What's the gestation process on this been like? "Test screenings really changed the shape of this film from what I wrote to what the audience will ultimately see, for better or worse... I can say that going through this experience that no studio would make a film like 'Alien' or even Carpenter and Lancaster's version of 'The Thing' today. There is a sense of impatience from the audience to just get to whatever it is they paid their ticket for. And that can hurt filmmakers but it can also help box office. It's a strange argument to have."
  So what was added in reshoots? "As I understand it, they were replacing scene work outside of Antarctica. Like at Columbia where we meet Kate and to a lesser extent where we meet the other American members. The other re-shoots as I know them were more of a fight between practical effects and CG. When I was on set and when Mattjis shot a lot of this, and he's a great director by the way, it was all practical. We had Mary using a flamethrower on an animatronic and it looked great. It's hard to say what it looked like once they got into editing, I wasn't a part of that process, but I do know that there were two definite sides of the argument. There were people saying we had to replace with CG and there were people saying we could make the practical [effects] better in places where they fell short."
  https://bloody-disgusting.com/interviews/26758/interview-the-thing-2011-screenwriter-explains-how-the-film-transformed-into-what-you-saw/
  

So it was part of the reshoots after the test screenings, but was it audiences dictating, just producers, or a mixture of both, it's hard to be sure.

It seems based on this last sentence "There were people saying we had to replace with CG and there were people saying we could make the practical [effects] better in places where they fell short" there was an acknowledgement even on the pro-practical fx side that some of their fx (per Eric) "fell short", but it does seem a shame (if that's the case) that they couldn't even try to fix the practical fx with practical fx... especially when the love for the first film is so tied to its practical effects.

True, audience reaction didn't help. But from all accounts together it feels like the producers used the reaction to justify their existing desire to go CGI and force the filmmakers hands, rather than the impetus for change.

Quote from: Darkness on May 07, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
Here's the transcription from the interview: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alec-gillis-tom-woodruff-2/

Yeah, good work. The Giger stuff was interesting. I just feel sorry for him that it ended up like that. But it's understandable, the studio just wanted to crack on with the movie and Giger didn't want to sort of be on set to work on it. I can't seem to find the Cinemafantastique article they mentioned.

Thanks for transcribing that, D. That must have taken a good bit.

I hope Darkness left out all the abuse Tom gave Aaron!

But that's clearly his favourite part!

Quote from: Keyes on Apr 27, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
I never knew there was an animatronic PredAlien built. Any pics of that available?

Likewise, and I'm curious to know that as well! As the guys were saying in the interview, the animatronic version afforded them a chance to make the creature at its proper scale and in proper proportion, so it'd be interesting to actually see that. We have the scaled-down models like the one Alec hoists up, sure, but that animatronic must have been something else!

Quote from: Trash Queen on May 20, 2021, 01:29:24 PM
But that's clearly his favourite part!

:laugh:

Quote from: The Necronoir on May 20, 2021, 02:16:09 PM

Quote from: Keyes on Apr 27, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
I never knew there was an animatronic PredAlien built. Any pics of that available?

Likewise, and I'm curious to know that as well! As the guys were saying in the interview, the animatronic version afforded them a chance to make the creature at its proper scale and in proper proportion, so it'd be interesting to actually see that. We have the scaled-down models like the one Alec hoists up, sure, but that animatronic must have been something else!

It might have been a reskin of their animatronic Alien from AvP. Not sure where it would've been used in the movie.

Quote from: SiL on May 20, 2021, 08:23:29 PM

Quote from: The Necronoir on May 20, 2021, 02:16:09 PM

Quote from: Keyes on Apr 27, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
I never knew there was an animatronic PredAlien built. Any pics of that available?

Likewise, and I'm curious to know that as well! As the guys were saying in the interview, the animatronic version afforded them a chance to make the creature at its proper scale and in proper proportion, so it'd be interesting to actually see that. We have the scaled-down models like the one Alec hoists up, sure, but that animatronic must have been something else!

It might have been a reskin of their animatronic Alien from AvP. Not sure where it would've been used in the movie.

Didn't they say in the interview that they were going to use it for the rooftop battle at the end but that the crew wouldn't wait for it to be moved into place?

Anyway I always get the impression that Tom really  dislikes interacting with the community/fanbase.

Quote from: 426Buddy on May 20, 2021, 09:12:56 PM

Quote from: SiL on May 20, 2021, 08:23:29 PM

Quote from: The Necronoir on May 20, 2021, 02:16:09 PM

Quote from: Keyes on Apr 27, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
I never knew there was an animatronic PredAlien built. Any pics of that available?

Likewise, and I'm curious to know that as well! As the guys were saying in the interview, the animatronic version afforded them a chance to make the creature at its proper scale and in proper proportion, so it'd be interesting to actually see that. We have the scaled-down models like the one Alec hoists up, sure, but that animatronic must have been something else!

It might have been a reskin of their animatronic Alien from AvP. Not sure where it would've been used in the movie.

Didn't they say in the interview that they were going to use it for the rooftop battle at the end but that the crew wouldn't wait for it to be moved into place?

Anyway I always get the impression that Tom really  dislikes interacting with the community/fanbase.

I think he's just not on that level that we are on where you can dig up stuff in hindsight from multiple sources. If somebody were to ask you, remember that time when we worked together 28 years ago..... You'd probably be like...."what"?!

Then they ask you that 9 times.

Speaking to him, that certainly wasn't the impression I got. He seemed to take it all in good fun.

I lamented to Hicks a few weeks back that in my efforts to provide enough background for the questions I submit for ADI (so they don't have to dig through memories from decades earlier) I sound like the 'Get a life' guy from SNL...

But the question is, do you know the combination to Kirk's safe?

I forget but I'm sure it's something to do with the birthdate of one of his horses.

 :D