I don’t think I would be wrong in stating that the closing scene of The Predator was not a very popular moment in the film. While a lot of the specifics regarding the behind-the-scenes story on The Predator is still unknown, it seemed fairly obvious that it was a last minute studio addition.
And we recently learnt that it could have been much, much worse than it ultimately was with some completely unexplainable cameos from Aliens’ Ripley and Newt. It turns out it’s not just us that felt that way. Responding to a fan’s comment on his Facebook page, The Predator co-writer Fred Dekker revealed that he also hated the scene.
However, most of his comment was related to the reception that The Predator has received as Fred was replying to a viewer who had reconsidered his opinion on the film after watching it on home release and now liked the film more. In response, Fred Dekker said:
Thank you, Stephen. This means a lot to me. We live in a culture that’s so cacophonous we sometimes cling to our opinions as our only voice in the din. Or we’re so married to our childhood memories of things we love that when the formula is contradicted, some feel betrayed by any attempt to take a different approach. In all candor, I have lots of issues with the movie (I also hate the super-suit ending!), but I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don’t have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well…that hurts. So thank you.
I typically avoid expressing my own opinions in my reporting (I like to leave those to the podcast) and while I agree that toxicity seems to just be apart of fandoms these days, I also think it is never as simple as fans just being jerks who don’t know how the industry works.
There are certainly elements of The Predator I really enjoyed and elements I strongly disliked, but it never came down to being about The Predator taking a different approach to the material. If anything, that was something I really liked about it. Predator is such a versatile property and it was great to see someone exercising that versatility.
That’s not to say some fans may have disliked The Predator because it was trying to break the formula but ultimately it wasn’t just Predator fans that had issues with the film. The Predator didn’t sit well with the majority of critics either. As of writing, the film currently sits at 44 on Metacritic and 33% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Thanks to HN Entertainment for the news. Keep checking in with Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest on The Predator! You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to get the latest on your social media walls. You can also join in with fellow Alien and Predator fans on our forums!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 06:50:28 PM
It maybe worse in the bigger fandoms like Star Wars, but it always seems to me to be the negative just shout louder and devote more energy to talking about their dislike. Not necessarily that fandoms are overrun with toxicity. Keeping on Predator, I love Predators. Far more than the majority seem to but when that came out it just got to a point where I couldn't be arsed to defend it against those that didn't like it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 05, 2019, 08:56:48 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
No, he doesn't deserve hate. None of them do. There's no reason to take things personally like this. There's no need to act like children in response to releases you don't like. That's the kind of behaviour that gives off the impression that fandoms are awful. There is nothing wrong with disliking things, it's just about how you express that opinion.
"this movie sucks and the ideas were bad" is not death threats or real harassment. i dont hate the man but he implemented terrible ideas to a long beloved character of mine and many others and ill roast him on it.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
I always find the "you don't know how hard it is to get a movie made!" defense incredibly bizarre. It's so irrelevant.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:22:46 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
The snarling after he shot it, didn't help the moment either. Yeah, super cool. What do they think? The audience is 5 or something?
Quote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 10:54:04 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 10:26:22 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 09:41:46 PMWhen people attack individual filmmakers for things that had nothing to do with them due to the process of making a film -- fair point.
It's not irrelevant when they get slammed for not taking their time or putting any effort into their work. Also, we don't know how their meetings with the studio went.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Preach it. I cannot make a list of all the wacky and awful stuff they crammed into this movie, and not imagine alarm bells should've been going off for everyone involved. Those toxic fans are part of the audience, (aka) the hand that feeds you Mr. Dekker, mind the teeth please.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PMI never said they had to be connected. P2 isn't really a strong sequel to Predator in terms of narrative. I'm advocating for location diversity.Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Nothing really has to be connected. I'd wager it would be better if it weren't. Predators can be lots of places, and many stories could be told. The franchise lends itself to that. Aliens have to be discovered, predators come to us. If It Bleeds is good proof of what could be done. But they have to be willing to abandon this notion of constant innovation. Every single thing doesn't have to be different each time. There's a formula, it works. Pick a place, a time, a group of people, drop in a predator, Go!
For goodness sakes, how many SAW movies have been made? People gravitate to certain franchises for something specific. If the writers and studios are not going to give it to them, then they shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it.
Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 11:23:58 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:02:32 PMI never said they had to be connected. P2 isn't really a strong sequel to Predator in terms of narrative. I'm advocating for location diversity.Quote from: Huntsman on Jan 05, 2019, 10:51:49 PMQuote from: Kane's other son on Jan 05, 2019, 07:50:04 PMA trilogy would've been fine, with differing locatations. Jungle, city and spaceship. The problem has been shitty scripts being greenlit, mimicking the original.
Turning Predator into a franchise was always an iffy idea. The original was a mystery: What is this thing killing everyone? You can't repeat that without the law of diminishing returns kicking in.
Nothing really has to be connected. I'd wager it would be better if it weren't. Predators can be lots of places, and many stories could be told. The franchise lends itself to that. Aliens have to be discovered, predators come to us. If It Bleeds is good proof of what could be done. But they have to be willing to abandon this notion of constant innovation. Every single thing doesn't have to be different each time. There's a formula, it works. Pick a place, a time, a group of people, drop in a predator, Go!
For goodness sakes, how many SAW movies have been made? People gravitate to certain franchises for something specific. If the writers and studios are not going to give it to them, then they shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
If you're not attacking any of the filmmakers saying things like "f you because the film sucks." "Go to hell" etc etc. then there's no need to get defensive when he says "toxic fans". You can still let them know the films sucks and express your disappointment while being level-headed.
And like it or not, toxic fans don't get a pass for their toxic behavior nor will they ever. If people get upset when toxic people get called out, they're part of the problem.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:46:09 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:35:15 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 05, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Seriously? Mind the toxic fans? What a joke. You don't get to treat people how you want to treat them just because you're the hand that feeds them.
I'm going to assume you're one of those toxic fans since you're actually trying to defend them.
Easy now, there's no need for that. I'm saying he should avoid using terms like "toxic fans" when referring to people who are critical of the film, because that's a crap-load of people at this point, and not just folks who act hatefully. And like it or not, those toxic fans are part of the audience that go to see the movies, which (in turn) gives the studio's the money they pay him with. If nobody went to see movies, Hollywood would go bye bye in no time. It's a cash business, but it's the audience's cash. Hence, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You don't insult or blame any portion of your audience...ever. It's bad for business.
If you're not attacking any of the filmmakers saying things like "f you because the film sucks." "Go to hell" etc etc. then there's no need to get defensive when he says "toxic fans". You can still let them know the films sucks and express your disappointment while being level-headed.
And like it or not, toxic fans don't get a pass for their toxic behavior nor will they ever. If people get upset when toxic people get called out, they're part of the problem.
I understand where you're coming from, and I see clearly the point you're making. I agree, there is no place whatsoever within the framework of constructive conversation, for vile and hateful rhetoric. Nobody who engages in such childish behavior should get a pass.
It is my opinion, however, that when he says "to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts..." he's being unfair, because alot of people are trashing this film, not just these "toxic fans" he's referring to. To say it in this way, risks lumping in too many people who do not deserve to be spoken of that way. He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 12:15:08 AMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 05, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
He's generalizing, and that's both weak and improper.
Indeed, I've seen it happening a lot with major franchises recently.
The Director/writer will point to the worst detractor they can find;
then use them as a scapegoat-
to present all criticism towards
their work as invalid.
And frankly, Dekker isn't the most egregious.
There's others that are far, far worse.
A certain R.J comes to mind.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2019, 12:51:04 AM
So um yea, who are these toxic fans. I wanna see a list.
Quote from: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Wow! that's like all twelve of us who regularly visit the site :laugh:
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 01:09:18 AMQuote from: HashTag_TheSwag on Jan 06, 2019, 01:02:52 AM
Wow! that's like all twelve of us who regularly visit the site :laugh:
Breaking News: The 12 Toxic Fans responsible for the downfall of Shane Black's latest film have now been identified. A press release from the group details their long standing commitment towards destroying the films reputation, along with a 1 item list of demands that includes returning the Predator Franchise to its roots. A spokesman for the group declined any further comment.
This follows on the heels of events that took place earlier today, in which Shane Black and Fred Dekker took to twitter to discuss the (then) supposed subversive group. "They're so mean", Dekker was quoted as saying.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 01:25:56 AM
Poor Fred Dekker demolished.
https://y.yarn.co/a4aa8b71-2a8a-4014-ab3d-ff9194bb5934_text_hi.gif
:laugh:
Quote from: Master on Jan 05, 2019, 11:28:48 PMYep. I'm all for new things, but reinventing the wheel is unnecessary.
The film was trash because it had trashy script. When your movie tries to change who lore to something much dumber and simply subpair, dont be surprised poeple who care about it will be vocal.
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 06, 2019, 04:04:37 AM
I actually find it a bit offensive that he thinks people don't understand the work it takes to bring a movie to the screen when for a long time most scifi films, and the people behind them, have been highly respected for their craft. It's the reason we love seeing BTS stuff.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 05, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
I always find the "you don't know how hard it is to get a movie made!" defense incredibly bizarre. It's so irrelevant.
But his argument seemed to be people criticising the film in general not knowing how hard it is to get something to screen. How difficult it is to make isn't the least bit of a defense. Every film is hard to make -- we still get good movies. Whether there was studio interference or not, whether the sets burned down or people had to get edited out at the last second, doesn't excuse the fact the end result is lacklustre.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AMEveryone knows there are toxic comments. But even if you read his comment, he's not referring to people going after individual filmmakers; he's talking about people trashing the movie itself:
He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.
Quotebut I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 05, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Blowing off criticism as coming from only toxic fans does a disservice to the fans. While fandom, particularly the Alien and Predator fandom hosts its own set of toxicity (and the gatekeepers) the resounding opinion was that The Predator was a disservice to the lore, mythology and integrity of the series.
Quote from: The Shuriken on Jan 06, 2019, 03:55:35 PMThis is what I was thinking. Is it toxic now to just dislike something?
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 06, 2019, 04:24:50 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Urgh "toxic" is just a lazy Liberal ad-hominem term used, because they can't be bothered to engage with someone in a (creative) argument based on true or false statements.
Its like quitting a game and then declaring victory because you called time and took your ball home.
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Then the whole "PREDATOR statuary rape/sex offender" thing with one of Shane Black's own casted buddies and Olivia Munn using PREDATOR as a buzzword for evil "toxic masculinity" and "sexual predators".
....
What?
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
So if there was three years between the original ending being drafted and Arnold saying no to appearing in the film, how was the Predator Killer studio intervention? Did Dekker and Black just not offer any sort of alternative during that three year time period? Or was there altogether a different ending that was posited that we haven't seen... (assuming that the Ripley / Newt scenarios weren't their idea to begin with.)
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Besides "THE PREDATOR" isn't exactly a Liberal friendly movie with all the "toxic masculinity" and Olivia Munn not being some Mary Sue who arm barred and defeated the 10 foot PREDATOR with her feminist strength.
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
Quote from: Badwolf-00 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
That's a hell of a fart. :D
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:29:22 PMQuote from: Badwolf-00 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:25:30 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 06:15:17 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMQuote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 04:02:36 PM
Can someone fart to change the subject. oh well here's some Robot Chicken instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91aifLfJHAs
Sadly there is no amount of Robot Chicken that can erase my hatred for the ending.
Well I wonder when Shane will say something about the ending, he has been pretty quiet since the movie came out.
But a good fart can make you forget, for awhile at least.
That's a hell of a fart. :D
Must be the kind that is strong enough to erase memories.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMShane is actually very liberal.
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 06, 2019, 06:13:27 PMShane is actually very liberal.
If he is then he scored an own goal.
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/a24268458/olivia-munn-taking-down-hollywood-predators/
Not uncommon with all the liberal infighting happening these days.
First Uma Thurman vs team Tarantino and Weinstein
Feminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Olivia Munn mediating and playing mother to the child who got molested by Shane Black's pal.
Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Jan 06, 2019, 08:15:28 PM
Not uncommon with all the liberal infighting happening these days.
First Uma Thurman vs team Tarantino and Weinstein
Feminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Olivia Munn mediating and playing mother to the child who got molested by Shane Black's pal.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 06, 2019, 08:37:43 PM
This situation is bad enough without bringing the all-destructive force of politics into it.
Can we not, and say we didn't?
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 06, 2019, 02:02:22 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 05, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
Quinn asks the Assassin Predator "What are you?". Then, as the Assassin Predator starts to answer Quinn, he shoots him in the face and says "Shut the f*ck up!".
Sure it makes no sense to ask something a question, only to kill it before you get an answer... but the audience will surely say "Ah ha! He got him there! See the giant Predator was about to speak and Quinn killed it before it could talk? That's so cool! Dutch asked his Predator 'what the hell are you' because he truly pondered the answer. But Quinn already knew the answer. He just did asked it because he's so badass! Even with his mates dead, he's badass! So badass!" Wait, the audience didn't like it?? But we were just trying something different. They obviously don't want anything different.
In the original script they had a short dialogue though, and i think it was a bit better.
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 06, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
So if there was three years between the original ending being drafted and Arnold saying no to appearing in the film, how was the Predator Killer studio intervention? Did Dekker and Black just not offer any sort of alternative during that three year time period? Or was there altogether a different ending that was posited that we haven't seen... (assuming that the Ripley / Newt scenarios weren't their idea to begin with.)
Quote from: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 07:48:42 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 06, 2019, 04:49:32 AMEveryone knows there are toxic comments. But even if you read his comment, he's not referring to people going after individual filmmakers; he's talking about people trashing the movie itself:
He called out TOXIC FANS. We all know what toxic fans say, and if you think there aren't any toxic comments, you're going to need to read around more.Quotebut I spent three years on it and to have it trashed by toxic fans who don't have the first clue how hard it is to get anything on the screen, well...that hurts.
Nobody's arguing toxic comments don't exist, just that whether it's hard to make a film is hardly a reason for people to take it easy when they don't like it.
QuoteFeminists vs Transgenders with the hastag #WomenCannotBeMen
Quote from: SiL on Jan 06, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
You need to understand he's done a very poor job of wording himself if he wasn't trying to lump all negative criticism into one basket.
I get where you're coming from, but it's not hard to see why people are reacting to what he wrote like they are.
Quote from: SM on Jan 06, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
'Just make a good movie and we wouldn't trash it' is obviously clueless.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
1. "Just make a good movie" is a really vague statement.
2. People trash "good" movies all the time.
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:44:58 AM
Why is it always the minority that gets the attention. World's gone mad.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Quote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Usually these things are down to like two nut jobs. Then for some reason it's "toxic fandom". Stuffs getting old already, it's ok to get offended. Especially when you're in charge of a multi million dollar project and you screwed it up.
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 02:51:39 AMQuote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Not sure. We'll need to consult the book.
Let's see now,
...teen jokes, tortellini, torture, toxic...ah, see failure. Well, that's odd.
Flip flip
Failure: A lack of success. If failure occurs, see excuse.
flip flip flip
Excuse: An attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); , often by placing it on others. Some generalization may be required.
Well, I don't really see anything about toxicity, per se, but I think Fred might be making excuses.
Quote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 02:54:36 AMQuote from: King geedorah on Jan 07, 2019, 02:38:49 AM
"blah blah toxic comments somewhere in the void" so what? no one here is calling to assault him or using nasty words on him.
im firmly in the camp of "the predator was trash from the script to the finished product and should have never been made" am i toxic? :D
If you're tweeting that stuff at the guy repeatedly, then yes.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
So instead of continuing to be offended over Fred's comment, like everyone else, you're now being humorous. Good on ya. (Seriously) :D
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 03:16:12 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
So instead of continuing to be offended over Fred's comment, like everyone else, you're now being humorous. Good on ya. (Seriously) :D
Incorrect assumption.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:26:42 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 02:20:22 AMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 02:07:49 AMQuote from: Highland on Jan 07, 2019, 01:56:33 AMQuote from: Samhain13 on Jan 07, 2019, 01:46:54 AM
The loud minority.
Like where's that stuff though. More like a bunch of folk said your movie sucks. Which it does.
Is that the new thing to do, pretend to not know where toxic comments are? lol :D
Usually these things are down to like two nut jobs. Then for some reason it's "toxic fandom". Stuffs getting old already, it's ok to get offended. Especially when you're in charge of a multi million dollar project and you screwed it up.
Oh, so two people are responsible for all the toxic comments on various sites? Yeah, no.
You're right, it is getting old. People pretending that there aren't any/many toxic comments, that is.
Quote from: Predwars24 on Jan 07, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
Star Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans, I don't really see too many on Predator though, I may dislike a film if not hate it sometimes but I don't think it's a good thing if people threaten the cast and crew or each other for opinions on a film. It's a cruel world though, people get bashed for having different viewpoints all the time these days.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMOr any time someone suggested female Predators...QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhat's Alien Blackout... oh snap I just woke up and I feel like I missed out on something interesting.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Quote from: SiL on Jan 07, 2019, 09:08:20 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMOr any time someone suggested female Predators...QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Jan 07, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
I kind of figured most of the hate for the suit came from the fact its called "Predator Killer", and I doubt they'd refer to themselves as the name we gave them.
It's design isn't terrible, but I think it's name and the dreads is what brought on so much hate.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 07, 2019, 11:06:17 PM
...
Quote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jan 07, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
No point even trying to define what makes a movie good on a forum like this.
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
I'm sorry you took what I said so personal.
The common theme amongst this split fan base (and it is split) is "back to basics"- those who wanna see true sequals to Dutch and/or Harrigan, True slow burn-pacing R-rated, tense, one pred-hunter, stalking, hunting, killing for sport/fun, hiding in the shadows, one or two small details of expansion.
Then there is the theme "versatile/expansion" etc. This theme has proven to be far more disastrous and for four movies in a row has proven to fail. "Expanding" on a Universe is fine for all things NOT film. A film is 2 hours long, to expand on 12, or 8, or 4 different big ideas makes for a mess (ala the last 4 movies FOX has spit out).
To STILL pretend, STILL....that everything is fine because there are "elements" fans liked (10 mins in a film here and there) as your justice and evidence that "expansion" works and is the better formula for this franchise is at this point a swing and a miss. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 (and counting for that matter) "expansion" has failed those who preach it. I picked out Hicks for no other reason than he's top dog around here and many follow his voice and opinion. And quite frankly it's been proven wrong at this point.
There needs to be some mea-culpa's within this fan base that are fed plenty full their bellies with comic/video game/book "universe-expansion" but for no other reason than to consume some more- are willing to indulge themselves and be satisfied with "elements" (10 mins of seeing a Pred dog, or 4 mins of seeing inside the Pred ship, pred fighting an alien for 3 mins) at the sacrifice of a entire movie that is so hard to make in the first place.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AMThat does make sense, in that I avoided all the trailers aside from the first. Which is obviously why I didn't remember the marketing spin but the trailer I remember showed an action packed serious movie. Something sure did changed after that.Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PMArticle on PC gamer on a wishlist for a Isolation 2, header: not being a mobile game.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Yeah. Sure it is. :laugh:
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 09, 2019, 12:10:13 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 08, 2019, 07:38:08 PMArticle on PC gamer on a wishlist for a Isolation 2, header: not being a mobile game.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 08, 2019, 11:47:55 AMQuote from: SM on Jan 07, 2019, 08:07:04 PMWhich is aimed at mobile games, not the franchise per say.QuoteStar Wars is terrible when it comes to toxic fans
Go have a peek at the reaction to Alien Blackout...
Yeah. Sure it is. :laugh:
I'm pretty sure it will be impressive and even entertaining, it's just less immersive than being to able to play in more freedom. Of course you could stream video and audio to solve the part of the big screen and inferior audio, but I'm sure people feel like they have been robbed of 2 decent titles out of three about 5-9 years ago...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
That's too narrow of a perspective. You need to add in that Sega was disappointed with the game's reception, that they called the sales of Alien Isolation "weak".
You add that to the narrative and some may respond we're lucky to have gotten anything new with Amanda Ripley.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:57:00 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 09, 2019, 03:52:19 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
Granted I haven't played it yet but from a quick Google, it doesn't look like Five Nights at Freddy's (which is what people are saying this is like) doesn't seem to have micro-transactions so I'm not expecting this one to.
It's still an inferior follow up no matter what damage control you do for it.
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
How do you think the response would be?
That's too narrow of a perspective. You need to add in that Sega was disappointed with the game's reception, that they called the sales of Alien Isolation "weak".
You add that to the narrative and some may respond we're lucky to have gotten anything new with Amanda Ripley.
https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI (https://youtu.be/SLKz6E4vlXI)
This is relative to brands and products...
https://www.wefirstbranding.com/advertising/what-to-do-when-good-brands-make-bad-things-or-bad-brands-do-good/
This is clearly a case of good brand making a bad product.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 04:50:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 03:34:26 AM
Xhan's correct.
SEGA's Isolation expectations, projections...
Unrealistic.
Isolation sold incredibly well.
Considering it's Genre, ACM &
the history of movie-licensed games.
(& Cheaper alternatives.)
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
And SEGA has a public history of expecting WAY too much from niche IPs.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
No, ACM's a completely different beast.
Randy Pitchford literally stole most of the funding and put it into the development of Borderlands.
Whilst outsourcing parts of the game to many different studios and paying them in pennies.
Sure, SEGA should've canned ACM and given AVP 2010 more development time-
whilst they went ahead with Aliens Crucible. But no one could have predicted the shitshow ACM turned into.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Now, you're being unreasonable.
It was probably clear to whoever gave the go ahead on the game's release-
that to invest any more time or money, would be essentially burning money
the best they could do reasonably, financially speaking would be to release
ACM and try to get some return on their investment.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 09, 2019, 06:59:52 AMThe fan reactions to the trailers and TV spots were all over the place too.Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 09, 2019, 03:35:52 AMThat does make sense, in that I avoided all the trailers aside from the first. Which is obviously why I didn't remember the marketing spin but the trailer I remember showed an action packed serious movie. Something sure did changed after that.Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 08, 2019, 09:21:40 PMThe final trailer and some TV spots advertised the movie to be more action/comedy while the rest had a more serious tone.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 08, 2019, 07:59:14 PMActually, although Black did tell us this would be more comedy based did the trailers and advertising material sell that? I have to watch the trailers again but to me it seemed to say this was more of an action flick like the first one. I find a lot of times it is the marketing department that causes a movie to fail because they sell the audience the wrong interpretation of a film. The poster was correct though, we never saw this shit coming is right.
Some franchises don't react well to change. Some just can't work at all outside of established boundaries.
Including Neomorphs and Deacons in an Alien film is one thing.
Changing the entire tone of a sci-fi horror based franchise film to that of an action comedy is an atrociously bad idea. And that bad idea should've been seen for what it obviously was, from the very beginning.
Quote from: matthewjn on Jan 08, 2019, 07:43:11 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 08, 2019, 03:25:21 PMQuote from: matthewjn on Jan 07, 2019, 08:04:05 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
Sorry but a Pred movie without tense moments, even "scary" is tone deaf. You spend all this time and detail on a CREATURE, yet you use him as an action hero.
Real fans aren't saying it's NOT hard to make a movie, get it to the screen. Real fans know it's hard to make a movie and the opportunities don't come around too often and don't want the opportunity wasted as it's been for 4 movies now!!!!
Don't brow beat us by saying "it's hard and there's no respect for the process" when the studio puts out 4 POS's. At some point your gonna have an issue. As well at some point your "married to the old formula-so-it-should-be-different" high-horse has to come into question.
Hicks your whole "elements I liked, elements I didn't like" is part the of the problem. Like an "element" aka 10 mins of a MOVIE doesn't prove "versatile".
You want "versatile" "elements" you like, go read a comic or play a video game. This pompus attitude has ruined the franchise and has kept fans at bay from an overall GOOD MOVIE in it's entirety for 4 films now!
Don't you know how hard it is to get these films made!!!
Oh wait.
LOL. I like how you're trying to point the finger at someone who is respectful like Hicks. If you truly have a problem with someone saying "elements I liked, elements I didn't like.", that's a problem you have to fix.
I don't know what kind of attitude do you prefer, but it doesn't seem like a very good one. Thankfully, decent people aren't really dealing with people like you anymore hence why they're speaking out more.
I'm sorry you took what I said so personal.
The common theme amongst this split fan base (and it is split) is "back to basics"- those who wanna see true sequals to Dutch and/or Harrigan, True slow burn-pacing R-rated, tense, one pred-hunter, stalking, hunting, killing for sport/fun, hiding in the shadows, one or two small details of expansion.
Then there is the theme "versatile/expansion" etc. This theme has proven to be far more disastrous and for four movies in a row has proven to fail. "Expanding" on a Universe is fine for all things NOT film. A film is 2 hours long, to expand on 12, or 8, or 4 different big ideas makes for a mess (ala the last 4 movies FOX has spit out).
To STILL pretend, STILL....that everything is fine because there are "elements" fans liked (10 mins in a film here and there) as your justice and evidence that "expansion" works and is the better formula for this franchise is at this point a swing and a miss. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 (and counting for that matter) "expansion" has failed those who preach it. I picked out Hicks for no other reason than he's top dog around here and many follow his voice and opinion. And quite frankly it's been proven wrong at this point.
There needs to be some mea-culpa's within this fan base that are fed plenty full their bellies with comic/video game/book "universe-expansion" but for no other reason than to consume some more- are willing to indulge themselves and be satisfied with "elements" (10 mins of seeing a Pred dog, or 4 mins of seeing inside the Pred ship, pred fighting an alien for 3 mins) at the sacrifice of a entire movie that is so hard to make in the first place.
"This person doesn't have the same opinion as me. They are obviously pretending." - You
Sorry, but there are people who don't want the Predator franchise to be like The Purge and Final Destination franchise - same thing each movie with very little changes.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:38:50 PM
Be careful wishing people would wait until a piece of media is out before assessing whether it's bad or not?
... why?
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 06:15:42 PMIn which it was not the niche market but the inferior product that bit them in the butt.Quote from: The Old One on Jan 09, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
And SEGA has a public history of expecting WAY too much from niche IPs.
*COUGH COUGH* ALIENS: COLONIAL MARINES *COUGH COUGH*
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AMWhen did lesson three, "Shit on the product sight-unseen" come in? You can do both those things without writing off the media before it's even out.
I learned two valuable lessons: never preorder and never buy into the hype train.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:08:09 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:01:49 AMWhen did lesson three, "Shit on the product sight-unseen" come in? You can do both those things without writing off the media before it's even out.
I learned two valuable lessons: never preorder and never buy into the hype train.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AMThere was never an option presented of Isolation II being made, so I don't see it as a substitute to begin with.
I don't know how you can find a mobile game a feasible substitute to an actual game, but to each his own I guess.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 12:14:38 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 12:11:09 AMThere was never an option presented of Isolation II being made, so I don't see it as a substitute to begin with.
I don't know how you can find a mobile game a feasible substitute to an actual game, but to each his own I guess.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMMe too. Jane nailed the role. Would've loved another full length film from him.Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 09:21:01 PMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 03:44:12 PMThere's a short film sequel to Thomas Jane's Punisher movie that everyone f**king loved, so maybe the response would be "wait until the thing is out before declaring it's awful".
Let me put it in perspective. Say we had a great movie that did fantastic, right? Had all the right plot points, characters, and special effects, etc. Now imagine the sequel was a 2 minute short clip that was done in a much more inferior style.
...
How do you think the response would be?
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
That's stupid. We're a niche gaming market though. As I have said these are "old people" franchises. At least I did my due diligence in buying 2 copies...PC and Xbox1.
Oh well.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 10, 2019, 09:30:46 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 09, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
That's stupid. We're a niche gaming market though. As I have said these are "old people" franchises. At least I did my due diligence in buying 2 copies...PC and Xbox1.
Oh well.
I will never ever agree with this statement. Alien and Predator aren't "old people" franchises. With each "restart" of the franchise you get influxes of new fans. You get people becoming fans at random ass points too. I've been playing Alien and Predator since I was a wee nipper, near enough exclusively in my early teens.
I'm 30 this year. I'm jazzed to have a new mobile game. The last one is a few years old now and as f**king fun as that was, I'm ready for a new thing.
I didn't expect an Isolation 2. We've known for years that it didn't do well enough commercially. We also know that Fox was showing us Amanda was accessible in more than just Isolation.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Growing up I didn't know anyone my age who was interested and yet here I am, surrounded by people my age who've been interested as long as me.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:27:10 AM
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMYup. Same here.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
QuoteMost younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.Ask young people again in 40 years.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:35:44 AMQuote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMYup. Same here.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
Yet here I am, surrounded by people my age approaching 30 and they've been fans as long as me. Yes, it's a fan site. That's how you find the fans.QuoteMost younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.Ask young people again in 40 years.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
It's feeling like this is more to do with your specific location. I go to the local con every year and there's always A/P merch, cosplayers, and people interested in the franchises. Either you're just in a particularly empty area or you're really overselling the lack of interest. Either way, I can assure you -- it's not that bad!
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
It's feeling like this is more to do with your specific location. I go to the local con every year and there's always A/P merch, cosplayers, and people interested in the franchises. Either you're just in a particularly empty area or you're really overselling the lack of interest. Either way, I can assure you -- it's not that bad!
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 10, 2019, 11:30:50 AMQuote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
Growing up I didn't know anyone my age who was interested and yet here I am, surrounded by people my age who've been interested as long as me.
Personal peer groups are awful sample sizes.
High school - nobody interested
College - some knew what it was but didn't like it
Work force - a couple older folks like it, but nobody my age does.
The only reason people here like it is because this is a FAN site. This is a conglomerate of people coming together for these IPs.
Most younger people know who Thanos is but not what a Xenomorph is.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
I am going to speak mostly about Predator here, but I go to the local comic shop regularly (I have a pull list) and still see Alien & Predator everywhere. The Predator Essential Comics Vol.1 is eye-level as soon as you enter the shop on a graphic novel rack, and the new release shelf has copies of Williams Gibson's Alien 3 as well as some remaining copies of Predator: Hunters II
My local Target has a dedicated shelf with a ton of NECA Predator figures including the Bad Blood vs Enforcer 2-pack, Ahab , Fugitive and now the Thermal Vision Predator which I was checking out last night actually.
Basically, there's plenty of places the demographic in question gets exposure to Predator. Heck, just the memes alone riffing "Get to the chopper!" and the "You son of a bitch" handshake that circulates in young fan communities feeds general awareness.
It's like my super homegirl, Alien fan, The Sailing Rabbit. (I hope she doesn't mind me bringing her up). I believe she fits the demographic in question and she has never seen "The Terminator" or "Terminator 2 Judgment Day". But she knows what the Terminator is. And if tech noir cybernetic organisms was her thing, I'm certain she would be all over that. And I believe the same thing goes with Alien and Predator.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 10, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
Your area is not very AVP friendly it seems. :-\ Sorry brother!
Quote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMAt this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMI haven't avoided the topic, you just can't seem to handle people disagreeing with you. An internet forum may not be the best place for you.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Quote from: SM on Jan 10, 2019, 10:52:17 AM
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9f/9fd57643a7830805f9d09db4cf3f4a0ddb748ca093fa3d72939a6609cafeb628.jpg
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.
Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.
If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.
People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.
What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
Quote from: Clanleaderyautja on Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 11, 2019, 06:05:28 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 05:04:16 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 10, 2019, 05:09:43 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 10, 2019, 04:30:48 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 09, 2019, 11:13:07 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 09, 2019, 10:07:03 PMThat's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining. Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.Quote from: Huggs on Jan 09, 2019, 10:46:11 PMYes! I couldn't remember the name.
Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".
At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.
Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.
Still is an opinion though.
Not really. Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous. It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc. You can ignore them all you want but they are there. There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company. That side of things isn't "opinion". "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....
But you can't deny the facts of this movie. I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.
If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.
Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.
If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.
People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.
What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.
Reading this made me wonder where I've seen this line of thinking before and then I remembered exactly where.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYBpI6ZF.jpg&hash=bf3d5bf32a21353c6f5a926f4e46ab4e13c44a36)
Quote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 11, 2019, 09:50:52 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 11, 2019, 08:37:23 PMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...
They do?
They have some spies. :P
But yeah, I think maybe it was Colin back then that first said some at Fox watched the site to see the fans reactions to stuff.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.
But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AMQuote from: Original Predator on Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy.
You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS.
And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there.
Sorry I expected that. As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie. I liked the previews. I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred. I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies. I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.
All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie. Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here.
It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words. Fans shouldn't mince words either. Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good. It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.
This was put out by FOX. Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous). That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.
I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.
But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.
Maybe some people are insecure. :-\
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Who can enjoy what? What defines good or not?
Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.
Sorry Fred
#ToxicFan
Quote from: Predwars24 on Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PMI think there's a bigger pop cultural gap now between generations than there has been in the past. I'm 32 and I can have conversations about music and TV shows from the 60s and 70s because they were part of my childhood.Quote
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
I'm only 19, and I think highly of the originals, have watched them since I was younger and still enjoy them. I've read a few comics but not too many of them, and I'd love to read the novels. I'm not going to say I know them as well as I want but I feel like generalizing a certain age group and saying they wouldn't like something is a bit far fetched. Especially nowadays when they can research certain things on fan wikis and such, to such a huge extent.
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 16, 2019, 11:59:18 PMQuote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
You are not alone.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:13:08 PM
Handing both franchises to one of the most mediocre and inoffensively bad Directors in the business whilst simultaneously torpedoing a Alien film written by James Cameron and Directed by Ridley Scott. Then spawning AVPR.
Yeah, AVP's great...
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jan 16, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
AVPR > The Predator
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
No way, Resurrection is just the worst. Why, why, why did Sigourney sign up to do that parody?
It's her equivalent to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Batman & Robin!
https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoTKP1ydJAJlC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c40d2f44b7a726945c52542
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 07:20:42 PMHmm... Interesting take on things. In regards to Batman Forever vs TDKR, I'd agree with you, BUT only when watching the Fan Edit Red Book Edition of Batman Forever. Otherwise, TDKR beats it, in a heartbeat.Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 17, 2019, 07:11:02 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 17, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
And sorry, but Jean-Pierre Jeunet's trash
is better than Paul Anderson's Gold-
and by the extension, the Strauss Bros.
No way, Resurrection is just the worst. Why, why, why did Sigourney sign up to do that parody?
It's her equivalent to Arnold Schwarzenegger's Batman & Robin!
https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoTKP1ydJAJlC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c40d2f44b7a726945c52542
I suppose it comes down to the fact that Resurrection's more interesting,
(and much better Directed) and when it comes to bad movies:
Interesting > "Good"
That's why, for instance- I find Batman Forever INFINITELY
more watchable than TDK Rises, because Rises is not only
bad; it's dull and bad- making Forever, more entertaining.
Quote from: Stitch on Jan 17, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
I wonder what the movies would have been like if the directors were switched. Alien Resurrection directed by PWS Anderson, and AvP directed by JP Jeunet might have been way more interesting.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:33:04 AM
Going off Event Horizon alone, Anderson should have been a perfect choice for an Alien-esque film. Unfortunately, that wasn't what we got.
Quote from: Highland on Jan 19, 2019, 02:35:11 AMEvent Horizon in hindsight was probably just a fluke.Well, he also did Mortal Kombat, which is arguably the best video game adaptation of all time (in regards to following the game story, at least). The first Resident Evil movie wasn't too bad, either. After that, though...
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Quote from: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AMEvent Horizon had some sloppy designs and the final cut didn't help either.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
I dunno, there's not much like it, spooky ghost ship in space. Good acting, disturbing scenes, it's got proper jump scares too.
Rez evil movie's are constructed exactly like AVP, the concept is good, but it's ultimately let down by bad editing, bad shots and average acting. The first encounter in AVP is a good example, it's kinda hard to tell whats going on, you've got 19 foot Alien tails, something happening with the net, weird flashes of stuff happening.
That pyramid they were in genuinely felt like it was about the size of a Caravan.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PMQuote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Absolutely not. Never saw a more soporific movie at the time.
Quote from: Wysps on Jan 22, 2019, 11:59:11 PMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jan 20, 2019, 01:59:24 PMQuote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
But was it truly a good film?
Absolutely not. Never saw a more soporific movie at the time.
Have to agree. It's been many years since I've seen Event Horizon, but I can only remember it for its 'disturbing-ness' and nothing else.
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 20, 2019, 08:57:03 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 20, 2019, 03:05:08 AMEvent Horizon had some sloppy designs and the final cut didn't help either.Quote from: skull-splitter on Jan 19, 2019, 01:49:39 PM
While I like Event Horizon, I don't think it's a good film. At all. There are bizarre choices and it's looks over substance (like most 90's films and all of Anderson's films)
I dunno, there's not much like it, spooky ghost ship in space. Good acting, disturbing scenes, it's got proper jump scares too.
Rez evil movie's are constructed exactly like AVP, the concept is good, but it's ultimately let down by bad editing, bad shots and average acting. The first encounter in AVP is a good example, it's kinda hard to tell whats going on, you've got 19 foot Alien tails, something happening with the net, weird flashes of stuff happening.
That pyramid they were in genuinely felt like it was about the size of a Caravan.
It was quite solid for what it was, hell raiser kind of clone in space. But there's a nice thesis on design that refers to the use of the rotating captains chair which makes no sense whatsoever and the hamfisted use of some special plugging device was ill conceived as well.
Compare this to how subtle Alien looked while doing essentially the same.
It's just not a very good film, but just entertaining enough to be quite forgiving.
Same applies to AvP: it flows so much better than Requiem, it has better use of characters, it references the classic comics for the predators to a degree.
It just f**ks up the timeline and established lore for both franchises, all to try and reinvent the wheel.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jun 25, 2019, 12:36:13 AMNight of the Living Threads
Necroposting is getting into all the boards.