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For me it's a toss up between Option 1, 3 and 6.

Here we go again.

I'm interested to see the most favored option and to hear some theories I may not have heard before.

Voted for muh space jockey fantasies.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 02, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
Voted for muh space jockey fantasies.

3 & 6- Accept no substitutes.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 02, 2018, 07:21:22 PM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 02, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
Voted for muh space jockey fantasies.

3 & 6- Accept no substitutes.

This (although I'd be okay with 5). Ultimately I'd rather not know - the old EU had deliberately contradictory potential origins for the Alien and it was great. :P

I like to think the Engineers synthesized their Black Goo from the xenomorph, and David using said Black Goo to create a xenomorph-like creature is him bringing it full-circle.

Agreed, I wish it is so.

I used to like the Space-jockey creatiing them theory but as time went on and after some consideration, its no better than David creating them as they still go from being an "Alien" to an artificial creation.

An "artificial creation" of unknown origin foreign to the universe, is considerably-more Alien rather-than a creature with origins in nature.

Except Nature has proven to be capable of creating creepy and scary Alien like life-forms. Just look at botflies, guinea worms and tarantula hawk wasps, then look at the power of the Tiger and Lion, the senses and hunting capablities of sharks. The idea of the creature being nothing more than imitation of life and not a real life-form, lessons it in my opinion.

Nature. In definition natural.

Alien, foreign, unknown, unnatural.

It is superior to life. Biological AI.
A reflection of us without the pretense.

You know what, to hell with discussing this situation. I'm gonna settle this once and for all by engineering the alien myself. I am gonna bring it to life and unleash it on mankind with a nice sweet AVPGalaxy tattooed in gold over it's caprice so everyone knows who's fault it was for the apocalypse being unleashed.

Yea you're gonna get the egg, the facehugger, the chestburster, the whole damn thing. And you know what, I'm gonna give them eye holes that shoot pink lasers.

 :laugh:

If it is option 3, 5 or 6 then when the Engineers came across these Xenomorphs they synthesized the Black Pathogen from them. The Engineers used this to create and destroy life.

David then, using the Pathogen, reverse-engineered his own strain of the Xenomorph.

The votes are at a tie between options 3, 5 and 6. How is the fan base ever going to be satisfied? Should they forever leave it open to interpretation?

More votes are needed to get a better idea of what most fans want.

You won't ever get a clearer idea. There's no consensus. Ask 100 fans what they want and you'll get 112 answers.

Oop it's narrowed down to two options in the lead! Can we get a consensus?

Naturally occurring my ass.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 04, 2018, 03:08:05 PM
Naturally occurring my ass.

Yeah I'm actually quite surprised that this is the current leading answer on the poll. Not the one I'd go with.

But there could still be a Xenomorph Prime of sorts if it's one of the other answers. It could be (one of) the first planet(s) that the Xenomorphs overran, with whichever creator's influence, many years ago. Perhaps there were some creatures on this planet with particular evolutionary traits that allowed them to survive against the Xenomorphs and so the Xenos eventually became part of the ecosystem as an introduced species.

The Alien > Ecosystems.

Oh I agree, But maybe on this planet there's creatures that are immune to the Xenomorph's acid blood, such as their "natural enemies" as seen in The Theory of Propagation. Maybe the Xenomorphs can make hosts of some but not all the creatures on the planet, whether that be because they're too big or because of some other trait.

The interesting implication in the natural origins: all the cool xenomorph's features (like acid blood) might be the result of millions of years of evolution in a dangerous ecosystem, which means deadly space monsters and scary stuff (like the alien environment).

But whatever the origin, the Alien is like a deadly filter in the face of our struggle to survive in space:

The idea of "Xenomorph Prime" is so banal it makes me want to put my eyes out.

^ Agreed. I much prefer the idea that they just sort of 'happen.' Like, picture the first ever beings in the history of the universe that made it to outer space... and then found the Xenomorphs waiting for them.

Also, it sort of astounds me that we as a fandom couldn't come up with a cooler name than "Xenomorph Prime," which is just the worst.  :-X

I'm thinking about Scorn Prime actually. :P

(https://media.giphy.com/media/2UwFg3KzEBwbaNAaPC/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/8mhdkrPGaFGSadNMGo/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Re4rufa0Qqwnn9J3vV/giphy.gif)

The world should be a multifaceted landscape and not fully biomechanical though.   

Heaven forbid people have their own opinions ::)

Quote from: SiL on Oct 06, 2018, 12:53:02 AM
Heaven forbid people have their own opinions ::)

But.. but people are having their own opinions? They're sharing them in this thread. ???

Ah, I meant to quote The Old One above saying "naturally occurring my ass".

For me the "Xenomorph Prime" would be the place where they were created, and as always, they got out of control and overrun its inhabitants and turned the planet into a huge giger biomechanical hive. Making it seems like they always belonged there.

Heaven forbid that opinion come to fruition.

Scorn is a prime example, when it's the entire world and everything in it- even though it sources as much from Beskinski as Giger-
Is other, it loses it's "otherness" in this manner.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 06, 2018, 01:38:50 AM
even though it sources as much from Beskinski as Giger-

I'm a fan actually (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=59154.msg2258213#msg2258213)  :)

Oh, he was a fantastic artist no doubt.

One of my favourites in my Art History lessons.

I like to think its still its own creature and the engineers discovered them, and then tried to re-create them, but ultimately ended up with the black goo. Maybe the goo is like an excrete found within the xenomorphs making.

Perhaps.

Beskinski could be my favorite artist of all time. Scorn looks so eldritch I can't wait to play it.

If there's got to be a creator of the Xenomorph I would love an 'Alpha' race of sorts to be introduced. With the cycle of creation and destruction that the prequel movies present it makes sense for there to be a species above the Engineers.

Even better if it's the Space Jockeys that are this race to bring back that mystery of Giger's biomechanical giant. The shape, size and overall look of the Space Jockey is so much different from the Engineer bio-suit. To me it looks like Giger meant for this creature to actually be growing out of the "chair" or was actually indeed part of of the ship. Imagine if the Derelict ship WAS the Space Jockey. An ancient highly-advanced biomechanical race of synthetic-organic starships with the Space Jockey acting as a sort of nerve centre.

Their technology was either stolen, scavenged or gifted to the Engineers. Or perhaps because the Engineers worshiped them they based their technology off the Jockey's.

Agreed!

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 06, 2018, 01:38:50 AM
Heaven forbid that opinion come to fruition.

Yeah, would be a shame if people got to enjoy things you don't :-\

It would be a shame if the franchise and property was degraded.

That's your opinion it would be degraded. Others might like it.

Could you maybe not be so obnoxious about every opinion you disagree with? You have a very poor attitude towards concepts you dislike and constantly come across like your views are the only ones of real merit.

Get off the high horse and let people enjoy things.

Alright, I'll bite.

How do you honestly expect me to change that?

(Because I'm not going to stop thinking some people have terrible ideas.)

Just be more accepting of other people's opinions as their opinions. People are going to think your ideas are terrible as well but it's just better to have a discussion around it.

But back to the topic at hand people!

A highly advanced race of biomechanical starships creating the Xenomorph? Or perhaps the ovomorphs are a part of the Derelict's biology? ???

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 06, 2018, 05:24:42 AM
How do you honestly expect me to change that?

Watch how you discuss ideas and understand that there are plenty of people who think your ideas are just as bad. We're here to discuss concepts and our shared enjoyment of the series; being condescending and dickish to ideas you don't like throttles conversation and spoils the fun. They're all just thoughts and feelings about a fiction series we enjoy; not everyone's going to agree, and that's kind of the point of having a discussion board.

Fair enough.

I've been around "basic" terminology for far too long.

but anyways...

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 06, 2018, 05:08:24 AM
It would be a shame if the franchise and property was degraded.

The franchise is already degraded in my opinion, the last five Alien films (this is including the AVP films fyi) saw to that and the new Predator is just turn a once suspenseful franchise into a marvel movie.

Perhaps it was degraded by AVPR and some elements of the prequel series but here's to hoping that new entries will only dignify the franchise.

My opinion, the origin should always be left mysterious, to keep the alien enigmatic and unknowable.

But, having an origin worked out in the canon's 'bible' for writers to work around without creating inconsistencies. This would hopefully avoid situations like Prometheus and Covenant, which seem to retcon what Alien presented (or at the very least massively subvert our understanding of it).

My favourite/pet origin? Naturally occurring species, co-opted by Jockeys and engineered into a planet pacification/terraforming tool (hence the resinous hive structure having a little similarity to the Jockeys' architecture, and why it alters atmospheric composition - by the time the aliens had conquered a planet and died off, it'd be ready for the Jockeys to move in).
Jockeys lose control of aliens after they acquire unwanted traits via the DNA reflex (eg. a second reproductive method, longer egg lifespan, resistance to egg suppression fields).

That way they're both a pinnacle of evolution and biological weapon. I also like the idea of the aliens being terraformers because it makes them a dark reflection of the atmosphere processor they occupy in Aliens.

Quote from: Vertigo on Oct 06, 2018, 09:45:45 AM
My opinion, the origin should always be left mysterious, to keep the alien enigmatic and unknowable.

But, having an origin worked out in the canon's 'bible' for writers to work around without creating inconsistencies. This would hopefully avoid situations like Prometheus and Covenant, which seem to retcon what Alien presented (or at the very least massively subvert our understanding of it).

My favourite/pet origin? Naturally occurring species, co-opted by Jockeys and engineered into a planet pacification/terraforming tool (hence the resinous hive structure having a little similarity to the Jockeys' architecture, and why it alters atmospheric composition - by the time the aliens had conquered a planet and died off, it'd be ready for the Jockeys to move in).
Jockeys lose control of aliens after they acquire unwanted traits via the DNA reflex (eg. a second reproductive method, longer egg lifespan, resistance to egg suppression fields).

That way they're both a pinnacle of evolution and biological weapon. I also like the idea of the aliens being terraformers because it makes them a dark reflection of the atmosphere processor they occupy in Aliens.

It would probably be for the best to leave it a mystery I agree. A canon 'bible' definitely would be a good idea as well but instead it's probably just Fox telling writers to put certain things into the stories.

That's an interesting theory, so would you say the Space Jockeys genetically altered Xenomorphs to prepare worlds for colonization and then created the Engineers on some of these worlds? Then the Engineers synthesized the black pathogen from Xenomorphs and with a form of this, combined with their own DNA, seeded Earth and maybe other planets with life.

But I don't see Xenomorphs conquering a planet and then just dying off. They would lie dormant until found. Or perhaps when a world is completely overrun and covered in Hive structures there's a next step to the life cycle that we haven't yet seen?

Brethren Moons?

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 07, 2018, 05:10:54 AM
Brethren Moons?

Like, Dead Space?

As Arnold Schwarzenegger would say "Dats De joke."

Quote from: Frosty Venom on Oct 07, 2018, 05:08:03 AM
That's an interesting theory, so would you say the Space Jockeys genetically altered Xenomorphs to prepare worlds for colonization and then created the Engineers on some of these worlds? Then the Engineers synthesized the black pathogen from Xenomorphs and with a form of this, combined with their own DNA, seeded Earth and maybe other planets with life.

But I don't see Xenomorphs conquering a planet and then just dying off. They would lie dormant until found. Or perhaps when a world is completely overrun and covered in Hive structures there's a next step to the life cycle that we haven't yet seen?

Cheers! The idea is that they were originally intended to be short-lived, so once they'd run out of hosts, after a few years they'd just leave behind a biomechanoid landscape devoid of any potentially threatening life. But somewhere along the way, they consumed a host species which gave them new traits that interfered with this cycle, such as the ability to lie dormant or increased longevity of the eggs.

(I'd been thinking that they could have originally reproduced by eggmorphing, with each generation being a genetic clone of the last one, but they acquired the Queen dynamic from an insect-like host. The Queen's real value being that it can create batches of eggs with genetic variation, making them evolving creatures again rather than the static genotype that the Jockeys engineered. This would explain why they have two reproduction methods and why the aliens' design changes in every film.)

I hadn't really been thinking about the Engineers, but your idea seems like it reconciles Prometheus pretty neatly.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 07, 2018, 07:20:06 AM
As Arnold Schwarzenegger would say "Dats De joke."

That's Rainier Wolfcastle's line!

@Vertigo

You're describing the differences between the Neomorph and Alien in your theory I'd argue.

The Alien is the Neomorph but sustainable and superior.

It seems that there are a lot of people on here that are prominently comic fans and enjoy the origin that is inferred in them. Not that I don't love the comics but I'm still unsure on how I feel about this certain origin explanation.

I also remember another naturally occurring theory, that some Yautja believe, though I cannot remember in which piece of media it pops up in. But they believe that Xenomorphs appeared/evolved on multiple planets simultaneously. This may be related to their belief of the "Black Warrior - the Yautja representation of the Grim Reaper. It is seen as an eternal adversary to any Predator, but it is also seen with great respect among the Yautja society and it guides the honored Yautja to their version of heaven".

That's mentioned in AvP War. Machiko says it, then says it's bullshit and just hides the fact the Predators are largely responsible for spreading them through the galaxy.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2018, 01:38:01 PM
That's mentioned in AvP War. Machiko says it, then says it's bullshit and just hides the fact the Predators are largely responsible for spreading them through the galaxy.

Novelization or does it get a mention in the comic as well?

David can be counted out from what we seen in the novels and also in the alien movies and predator movies.
My explanation and vision:

In Prometheus we already see xenomorph like creatures worshipped by the engineers and from the murals its pretty clear the xenomorph already existed long time ago and that the black goo or Xenomroph virus as I see it is over 2000 years old.
In covenant David found designs and also xenomroph eggs that he started to reverse engineer and came up with his own kind of xenomorph after much testing and killing the colony of that planet, suing them as testing ground for his experiments. The species there was a creation of the engineers who they saw as a succesfull creation hence living in paradise, which David turned into hell.

The eggs we see in the movie are different compared to xeno eggs, they are shaped differently and colored differently if you check, rather than round eggs they are oval like.

The facehuggers move faster and impregnates their victims way faster, pretty much only a touch is enough apparently, xenomorphs needs 16-18 hours to impregnate the host.

The adult xenomorph is less biomechanic and more organic and thinner legs and arms and its pikes on its back is shaped differently and not to mention it behaves way different than the original xenomorphs and way dumber and much more aggressive, hell one tried to attack a robot arm, thinking its a living thing..... Also it crawls more on 4 legs than walking as big chap did.
Dont get me started on what we learn in the games and comics where its confirmed xenomorphs existed long before David tried to make them.

In predator 2 which is canon we have a xenomorph way before Coventant and also in the AVP, although some see it as a spinnoff but to me all alien/predator materials is canon, making it hard to fit everything together but its possible.
In the latest the predator which is canon as well we have a alien tail and confirmation predator 2 happened, more interesting is we also learn:
The predator species is made by the engineers as well, in the movie the yautja have exact same dna as humans and after all they do have the same build as a human, bipedal and human shaped. We humans have the same dna as the engineers and we know the engineers traveled all around the universe creating life, some successful species and some they marked for extinction.

My vision of the alien origin:
I agree with other fans and angry video game nerd that the derelight spaceship was on its way to some other planet and use the eggs as a weapon against some other creature we havent seen, this would expand the lore and its universe and recreate the mystery of them. Ridley scott himself said that the ships cargo, the eggs was its weapons.
To me it was the space jockeys we saw in the derelight space ship, a creature that is far older than the engineers who see them as their gods and try to look like them, it would explain the height and size differences and why their tech is so different, and why the space jockey have eyes and tounge and teeth visible and is clearly a fossil which Giger confirmed it to be.
The engineers used dna from the xenomorph to create their black goo/alien virus and also travels around the universe seeding planets, some planets where they see the creatures as worthy, will let them live in paradise like style with roman/egyptian looking architecture with a ship or docking station watching over them. Why we see the population of that colony on covenant waving and welcoming the juggernaut ship in the flashback.

In my vision the space jockeys died out a long time ago, they and their ships were biological beings, the ships alive and they grew like plants for their purpose, something which is alien to us and way different compared to the engineers who are too human for my taste. The space jockey in alien then did grow out in the chair as its role was to be the pilot.
The engineers are the space jockeys creation and looks up to them so much they design their ships and costumes to look like their creators. Trying to go in the same footsteps and create life on planets and xenomorph like creations, they see the xenomorph as another god, maybe as their devil?
They are far from excinct and as Ridley say will be back in the next movie, have to see what David has planned for them.
They however created us humans and the yautja, most likely other species as well.


End of my rant but this would expand the alien universe a ton and restore the mystery of it and where the xenomrophs comes from and fix problems with prometheus and covenant.

But didn't Ridley Scott confirm that David did indeed create the original xenomorph?

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 23, 2018, 07:02:38 PM
The EU is inconsequential. Although I appreciate the interpretation of the Alien, SJ & Prometheus' "Engineers" as separate entities.

Alien, Predator and AVP- separate licenses. Not beholden to each other.

If David "recreated" the Alien, he did it without awareness that it had been created/found before.

The Eggs and Facehugger are purely aesthetic improvements, functionally
nothing contradictory if the Facehuggers remain on people's face for pleasure, not function.

Well from the movie and novel and other indications he did know about it and was attempting at recreating it for his own purpose, after all its the perfect organism.

I would disagree about the different look have no meaning and is the same xenomorph, would be like to say a zebra is the same thing as a horse. A different race or breed of xenomorph or as I suspect Davids first prototype and will use the time on covenant to perfect it. They like I said breed faster and differently and is way dumber as adults as well and have different look and movement.

What ridley say I wouldnt take as written in stone he changes his mind all the time, heck in 2003 he said they were the space jockeys ships weapons and the derelight spaceship was on its way for a bombing run, then you have Camerons vision and the other movies, and then the comics. David created his own version of the xenomorph which Ridleys word could mean but the original creator nope, the novel also says differently.

"A person can go crazy thinking about all this."

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/BpNcJGbmCeGmk/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5bcf7415586756305954eb53)

What says the novel and the predator and other comics etc arent relevant? Fox havent exactly gone out with an exact list of what is correct or not? Novel came out after the movie and to me retconed it. We also have the issue with the derelight ship is older than David from what the makers of alien said and other sources. Until that plothole is resolved it wont fit together. But well each fan can have their own theory since the alien universe have no exact line of what is correct or not.

Also have what we saw in prometheus talking against David and what we saw in Covenant. But we´ll see what Ridley does next but if he go with David is creator somehow then he f**ks up everything established in the past and will make that universe way smaller and less alien.

We´ll know with time as new comics and movies and materials gets released.

Novel and comics don't determine the course of the films.  If a future film further reinforces that David created the Alien - then David created the Alien; novels and comics don't enter into it.

^ 100% True (even when sometimes we don't wish it to be)

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 23, 2018, 06:49:24 PM
But didn't Ridley Scott confirm that David did indeed create the original xenomorph?

Ridley Scott says a lot of things.

I prefer their origins remain unknown. The jockey on lv-426 was merely an ancient victim, not necessarily a creator. There is no Xeno Prime, nor any universal motive for keeping other species in check. I just couldn't see them as the guard dogs of space. For lack of a better description, I prefer the Aliens to simply be akin to a mysterious form of Space Cancer. Wherever they show up, wherever they're found, they propagate and people die. Often horribly. Sometimes slowly and painfully.

Indeed. Poor fool.

Quote from: Huggs on Oct 25, 2018, 04:30:05 AM
I prefer their origins remain unknown. The jockey on lv-426 was merely an ancient victim, not necessarily a creator. There is no Xeno Prime, nor any universal motive for keeping other species in check. I just couldn't see them as the guard dogs of space. For lack of a better description, I prefer the Aliens to simply be akin to a mysterious form of Space Cancer. Wherever they show up, wherever they're found, they propagate and people die. Often horribly. Sometimes slowly and painfully.

Never thought of it like that. I really like that concept.

So, they're like a virus or as you said cancer, they remain dormant until provoked. And once unleashed there's just no stopping the spreading.

Maybe the black goo is like a naturally occurring phenomenon that the engineers harvested. Maybe it's like a secretion from planets or asteroids hitting planets and it spilling out. Causing deformities to spread, what we would call life.

Even that might be too in depth, just keep it unknown I would like to hear more on what you have to say Huggs.

1st Crew Member:  Maybe they're like a virus or as you said cancer, they remain dormant until provoked. And once unleashed there's just no stopping the spreading.

2nd Crew Member:  Maybe it's like a secretion from planets or asteroids hitting planets and it spilling out. Causing deformities to spread, what we would call life.

3rd Crew Member:  Maybe they're just from the devil itself.


I would have preferred we never got an answer to this question.  It's much more terrifying that way.

Agreed.

Although I love the "Biological A.I" revelation.  ;D

That's a bit of a mixed signal, me thinks.  ;D

How about... where would you stand if Fox/Disney decided to retcon the prequels one day.  In my eyes, after a retcon, canon is personal choice at that point. Would you keep the prequels in canon?   (There's no wrong answer of course!)

I'd maintain them, but recontextualise them.

I would hypothesize, if the Alien prequels were ever affected by a recon to regain its mysterious origin, it likely would be a retcon in spoken word only i.e. a director announcing it so, allowing to keep Ridley's origin intact for those who choose to. :)

I disagree.

Overwrite them.
Or Recontextualise them.

The Alien both; biological A.I & unknown' origins.

Peter Weyland's Artificial Intelligence's mistaken authorship, the final prequel revelation. 

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you're disagreeing that a producer or director might handle it that way... you're simply disagreeing with that precise way of handling it.

Yes, correct.

In the Aliens Genocide novel it explains that Xenomorph Prime, the planet visited during Female War and Grant's expedition, is wrongly referred to as a Homeworld.

"Not homeworld sir," a supernumery corrected. "Hiveworld."

"The source of all the aliens that have been encountered in this quadrant of the galaxy, from all signs. The source of the queen mother that was brought to Earth - not of the race." tendered another expert.

The extent of the spread of xenos had not yet fully been determined. So far they had been found only on isolated planets; all the clues pointed back to this so called Hiveworld. The Hiveworld had been the source of the Alien-Earth War.

This is the kind of eldritch mystery that needs to return to the series. How did the xenomorphs first spread across the galaxy? Do they even have an actual homeworld out in the furthest reaches of space? Were they seeded by Engineers or Space Jockeys? Have they appeared across the galaxy as some sort of super space plague or cancer? Or have they just always been out there waiting for sentient species to reach the stars?

I like multiple origins, though it's hard to decide. Having the Alien being unknown suits horror extremely well, as the most frightening things are unknown or incomprehensible. But I also like David creating them because it is then strictly anti-human which makes the creature more personal and has its own horrific nature.

I prefer anti-life myself.

Quote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 12:24:54 PM
I prefer anti-life myself.

Agreed. They do take on traits from their hosts do they not?

I just think them
being specifically
anti-humanism is
a little...
self centered. lol

Well, I mean, the facehugger is coincidentally a perfect fit for a human, so... It is frightening to think there'd be something out there specifically designed to destroy us. As opposed to the "David the creator" origin as a lot of people are, it does actually fit very well.

Its also a perfect fit for an Engineer. I think it'd be cooler if a race above the Engineers (Space Jockeys) created the Engineers but then some event occurred and they created the Xenomorphs to wipe them out. Just like how the Engineers created us and then intended on using the Black Pathogen to wipe us out.

A cycle of life and death.

Creation and destruction.

Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 04, 2019, 10:30:26 AM
Well, I mean, the facehugger is coincidentally a perfect fit for a human, so... It is frightening to think there'd be something out there specifically designed to destroy us. As opposed to the "David the creator" origin as a lot of people are, it does actually fit very well.

After realllly mulling it over, and I really did, I actually quite like the idea of David as the creator of the big chap and the life-cycle as we know it. Yes, it upends everything we thought we knew, but, I like how the sexual imagery of the creatures themselves is born out of the creator's inability to sexually reproduce and create life with a mate. That's a bold and compelling explanation and wonderfully Giger-esque.
I'm glad Logan/Scott had the balls to go with it.

Also, evolutionarily speaking, a parasite has to become familiar with the human immune system in order to incubate, and we see that it's a pre-adapted parasite in Alien, now this obviously could have been established with the Engineers since they seeded life on earth, etc, and initially it is as the pathogen/motes, but the classic xenomorph life-cycle harbours so many elements that are too evocative of human genitalia to have been a "naturally" evolved creature, nor would there be as compelling an explanation as to why the Engineers or something else would have cock, etc, so much on their minds; creating something that forcibly rapes hosts via the throat only is a tad too specifically anti-human/anti-mammal, etc, for an interstellar species.

That they are the design of a mad, sexually deranged android is clever and as I said, in keeping with Giger's aesthetic, which wasn't so much predicated on "mystery" but on perverse transfigurations of human sexuality fused with machinery. And I've said this before but it recontextualises the androids in the saga, eg. Ash forcibly shoving a magazine down Ripley's throat, Bishop being in a daze as he admires the "magnificence" of the facehugger, etc, the point being, Androids - good or bad - admire the damn thing, besides Call.

And the company's motivations to secure this "weapon" have been recontextualised as well, they want it because they see it as their "property."  Genetically it's still an alien, technically, its phenotype is just moulded in the image of David's sexual neurosis and mad dreams of "perfection." The sum total of all that still makes it a scary creation, because so much of its deep nature genetically is still mysterious; all David did was take a raw, natural banana and made it more phallic and perversely suited for human (or mammal, etc) violation, which is only logical.   

Very well said. And you're right on the money. I can't always explain why I like certain things about it, so I'm glad people like you are around to do it for me. ;D

The prequels may not always execute things perfectly, nor have the best human characterisation, but the world building and the thought put into it conceptually and thematically can't be denied.

Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jan 10, 2019, 09:59:12 AM
The prequels may not always execute things perfectly, nor have the best human characterisation, but the world building and the thought put into it conceptually and thematically can't be denied.

You must be new here.  ;)

 :D
Well obviously it can be denied   :D But concepts and thematic ideas can be appreciated without having to like the sum total of all the parts, I think that's what I really mean here.

Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jan 10, 2019, 09:59:12 AM
but the world building and the thought put into it conceptually and thematically can't be denied.

Ehhhh.... the "world building" is inconsistent from movie to movie. I see it more like Ridley Scott trying to have his cake and eat it too, but on a movie-by-movie basis. There's nothing wrong with that, per se, but "world building" implies some sort of over-arching consistency or grander master-plan.

Indeed.

Character building then re David  :D I think if Logan gets another shot at scripting then I see him piecing it all together rather nicely. Regardless, I've enjoyed the world building in both films with or without a master plan  and the evolution of the pathogen.

John Logan's excellent at writing David, not so sure about everything else.

We'll certainly see what pans out with all this. Planet dong is the only way.  :D