https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
A fan page of the Alien movie franchise which promotes the idea of decanonizing Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection in favor of a different continuity direction.
Dear All,
I am the creator of the above Facebook Page and would like to invite anyone to join who supports the position. The idea is not to disparage the Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection films but rather to embrace them as really great alternate reality stories while allowing for a future continuity that includes Hicks, Newt, Bishop, and of course Ripley. I want to be clear on this, I am a huge fan of David Fincher's film and Jean-Pierre Jeunet (Delicatessen is one of my favorite films of all time), but if these films are not decanonized, we will never see Hicks, Newt, and Ripley's story continue which is what many fans really want. Ultimately, the hope is that James Cameron would be interested in taking such a story further in the future as he has publicly stated that he was dissatisfied with the way Hicks and Newt were done away with in Alien 3. I for one would really love to see a film which brings these characters together again, perhaps a bit along the lines of the graphic novels by Mark Verheiden in the late eighties.
All the best,
Perfect-Organism
Most of us got over this 22 years ago. Hicks and Newt (and Ripley and Bishop for that matter) are dead.
Fox isn't going to 'decanonise' Alien3 or Resurrection.
If you want to have adventures along the lines of the comics - you have the comics.
SM, you make valid points. Naturally, nobody stays up at night thinking about this, but the world was very different 22 years ago. There was no way to really let Fox know what fans are clamoring for. It was because of Dark Horse's ideas that AVP comics were created, and it was because of the online demands by the fans that the AVP movies were created. We the fans now have way more power than before as we are true stakeholders in the franchise. If enough of us want this, it could happen. It's not the first time a film series revamped its continuity half way through. The Halloween franchise did this even before Rob Zombie came on board.
Hicks, Newt, Ripley, and Bishop aren't dead (their signs are real low but they ain't dead ;-) ) because they're just fictional characters in a movie. I don't believe that most people got over this 22 years ago. Most people would agree and probably even Fox that it was a bad decision to kill off all the main characters in Alien3. Basically, the film makers just painted themselves into a corner with no possibility for continuation unless something ridiculous like resurrection happened. They've been trying to think of something clever to make the franchise work again, but I think they are starting to realize that a great way to save the franchise is to continue where Aliens (the biggest hit) left off. People were so emotionally invested in those characters. This sort of approach may actually bring James Cameron back to the Aliens series. He has expressed how much he was connected to the characters he created. It's ok to dream of the ultimate Aliens continuation by James Cameron. Why not? Are you saying you wouldn't enjoy such a film?
But really, nobody's forcing anybody into anything. I'm starting a movement because James Cameron's film Aliens had a tremendous impact on me as an industrial designer and it would be worth the effort for me to see him do another installment. Who's in?
Join www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (http://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change). Let Fox know how much we would all love a proper James Cameron sequel to Aliens...
We got a "proper sequel", it was called 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' and it even managed to not undo 'Alien3' in the process.
QuoteSM, you make valid points. Naturally, nobody stays up at night thinking about this, but the world was very different 22 years ago. There was no way to really let Fox know what fans are clamoring for.
Yes there was - the Alien3 box office.
QuoteI don't believe that most people got over this 22 years ago. Most people would agree and probably even Fox that it was a bad decision to kill off all the main characters in Alien3.
Possibly - but like I said most of us
did get over it.
QuoteThey've been trying to think of something clever to make the franchise work again, but I think they are starting to realize that a great way to save the franchise is to continue where Aliens (the biggest hit) left off.
They're not thinking anything like continuing after Aliens left off. The current focus is Prometheus.
QuotePeople were so emotionally invested in those characters.
Hence the anger at the time - but, by and large, again, we got over it a very long time ago.
QuoteHe has expressed how much he was connected to the characters he created.
Of course. But David Fincher had to make a David Fincher film - not a James Cameron film. Ditto Vincent Ward before him.
QuoteIt's ok to dream of the ultimate Aliens continuation by James Cameron.
Of course - but it will never be anything more than a dream. If only for the simple reason that Weaver, Biehn, Henn and Henriksen are all nearly 30 years older.
QuoteI'm starting a movement because James Cameron's film Aliens had a tremendous impact on me as an industrial designer and it would be worth the effort for me to see him do another installment.
So go watch the Terminator films, The Abyss, or look forward to the forthcoming Avatar films. A 30 year older Jimbob isn't going to make another Alien film that resembles Aliens anyway.
...Wade Wyleth, is that you who started this thread?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 18, 2014, 02:43:24 AM
We got a "proper sequel", it was called 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' and it even managed to not undo 'Alien3' in the process.
You... You're serious? I mean... Colonial Marines being a "proper" sequel.
Your definition of "proper" may vary.
Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2014, 03:22:27 AM
Your definition of "proper" may vary.
Having played the game three times, the last one giving me a headache which lasted for days and keeping in mind of the inconsistencies which were pointed out.. I'd hardly consider it proper, no matter what Fox or anyone says. And this is coming from someone who enjoys a large bulk of the Expanded Universe.. Hish mythos and PREDATORS EU material not withstanding.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 18, 2014, 03:33:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2014, 03:22:27 AM
Your definition of "proper" may vary.
Having played the game three times, the last one giving me a headache which lasted for days and keeping in mind of the inconsistencies which were pointed out.. I'd hardly consider it proper, no matter what Fox or anyone says. And this is coming from someone who enjoys a large bulk of the Expanded Universe.. Hish mythos and PREDATORS EU material not withstanding.
My god man! You're even criticizing Predators in another forum! When will it end?!
Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2014, 03:22:27 AM
Your definition of "proper" may vary.
That's true. I'm an apologist for the game, but I do maintain that this was the
type of film that most people wanted (or at least expected) after Aliens. And I think the idea has its merits - new team goes in, battles Xenos and Wey-Yu contractors... that's a decent premise. The Hicks and tie in to AL III EN (I still love that more than cubed) was reaching for legitimacy and failed.
I really did get a thrill in the opening part of the game where Winter walks past Bishop's arse. Imagine that in a real movie - it would have been cool. There were loads of things like that in there - Look, I loved playing it and no matter how much the Hudson's and co of this forum tell me I'm wrong, I don't care. I'm not wrong. I liked it. End of.
So yes, despite all the hate, the premise was solid and I think could have been the basis for a really good film.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 18, 2014, 03:10:41 AM
...Wade Wyleth, is that you who started this thread?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 18, 2014, 02:43:24 AM
We got a "proper sequel", it was called 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' and it even managed to not undo 'Alien3' in the process.
You... You're serious? I mean... Colonial Marines being a "proper" sequel.
It was advertised as being a "proper sequel", and on paper the premise is pretty in-line with what people claimed to want as a "true sequel" to 'Aliens' - basically 'Aliens 2: Now With More Aliens'.
The game's
execution of that premise, on the other hand...
The premise makes Ripley's sacrifice utterly pointless.
I'll pass and keep the films as is. They are definitely flawed in some aspects, but I like both of them to some degree or another.
Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection are very much a product of their own times and their own creative processes and I am much more interested in those films (on the surface and behind the scenes) then I am any attempt to retcon them away.
Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2014, 11:27:43 AM
The premise makes Ripley's sacrifice utterly pointless.
So did 'Alien Resurrection', 15 years ago. And the bulk of the EU that came out post-'Alien3'.
Every movie rendered the "happy ending" of the prior movie pointless. 'Alien3' undid 'Aliens', 'Aliens' showed that the nightmare from 'Alien' wasn't over, etc. That's the nature of a shared universe with a timeline with no end date - there's always more "conflict" that undoes the prior resolutions. This has been true of fiction for, like, forever.
Quote
They've been trying to think of something clever to make the franchise work again, but I think they are starting to realize that a great way to save the franchise is to continue where Aliens (the biggest hit) left off.
SM Wrote: They're not thinking anything like continuing after Aliens left off. The current focus is Prometheus.
Agreed, the current focus is Prometheus. Just like a few years ago, the focus was Aliens Vs. Predator. Things change and the focus will change again in the future. If Fox is not actively considering this, then all the more reason to bring this idea to their attention. Its an idea that would really revitalize the franchise if we could see Ripley and Hicks on screen again, but probably only if James Cameron directed such a sequel. The reality is that this sort of thing would be the only way to bring back James Cameron into the Alien franchise. Cameron knows that it's really Aliens (and Terminator) that built his career. I personally may considering donating my left nut if it would mean having Cameron direct another Alien film. ;-) It's my ultimate movie wish.
(http://cameron%20knows%20that%20it's%20really%20%5Bb%5DAliens%5B/b%5D%20(%5Bi%5Dand%20Terminator%5B/i%5D)%20that%20%5Bb%5D%5Bi%5Dbuilt%20his%20career%5B/i%5D%5B/b%5D)
Please just stop.... Please....
Spoonman101, nobody is making you join this movement. We are not forcing this down anybody's throat, and I respect that you're not into this idea. The truth is that most of us would enjoy another James Cameron Aliens film so it is completely legitimate to bring this up here as a possibility for a post-Prometheus era. This topic will stay limited to this thread. If you don't support this idea, then don't join our FB page. But remember that you as a fan with a computer, hold a lot of power and it is not impossible that an Aliens continuity change could happen if enough fans are clamoring for this. Fox would make a lot of money on this and they are in the business of making money.
www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (http://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
Even if "most of us" did want another James Cameron Alien film - you don't need to change continuity in order to achieve that. He could just make another Alien film.
But that's highly unlikely to happen. Why not just enjoy the one he did make?
Quote from: SM on Jul 21, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
Even if "most of us" did want another James Cameron Alien film - you don't need to change continuity in order to achieve that. He could just make another Alien film.
But that's highly unlikely to happen. Why not just enjoy the one he did make?
Because for most if us it has been squeezed dried of enjoyment.
So go watch something else.
SM, check out the below link for some insights on James Cameron's views on Alien 3.
http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/james-camerons-alien-iii-or-how-it-was-never-going-to-happen/ (http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/james-camerons-alien-iii-or-how-it-was-never-going-to-happen/)
More specifically, the below two paragraphs tell why he wouldn't just do another Alien film:
As for James' opinion on David Fincher's Alien 3? The swift and off-screen deaths of Newt and Hicks, and the pulverisation (and subsequent euthanisation) of Bishop were two points of contention. But Cameron wasn't completely condemnatory towards the film. "I actually think that Alien 3 is a pretty good piece of work, in terms of film-making," he said. "Fincher early on showed what he had as a film-maker, and I think the film has some great stuff in it, some beautiful photography."
"But," he added, "it's hard for me to watch, because it feels like such a slap in the face to the people who have invested in the story through the first two films. I understand his reasons for doing it, but I think the best way to do a sequel is to honour the original and be original and creative in your own way. He was original and creative in his own way, but at the expense of the previous film and what a lot of people might have invested in that story up at that time. It makes it difficult for me to watch the film."I can't vouch for the authenticity of the above statements in the article, but they ring of truth. James Cameron BUILT on the work of Ridley Scott. He honored it. David Fincher did not respect James Cameron's work at all. It should be noted that of the 4 core Alien films James Cameron was the only one who actually wrote the screenplay. He made that movie his own in a way none of the others directors did. David Fincher, was not even a fan of the film he was making. To this day, he hates Alien 3. It was a corporate cash grab just to see if any more change can be squeezed out of Alien and Aliens. It was only after that that it was realized how much value there was in Aliens. The reason we are here on this forum right now was because the gravitas that Aliens carried at Dark Horse Comics. It was only in the last 3 years with the advent of Prometheus that the focus turned to the original Alien movie, but let's face it, it was Aliens that really has carried this franchise up to this point. To say that James Cameron should just pick up after Alin Resurrection is bananas IMO. This is JAMES CAMERON we are talking about; the best sci-fi director on the planet.
Quote from: SM on Jul 21, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
Even if "most of us" did want another James Cameron Alien film - you don't need to change continuity in order to achieve that. He could just make another Alien film.
But that's highly unlikely to happen. Why not just enjoy the one he did make?
Whaaat??!! Come on man! You know that's herecy. :D. Now, turn around, walk back to your home entertainment system, sit down and watch Aliens again.
Quote from: SM on Jul 21, 2014, 11:08:15 PM
So go watch something else.
The Alien franchise was controlled by Giler and Hill - not Cameron. He made his movie, and had no desire to make Alien3. Fincher had exactly zero to do with the removal of Hix n Noot. The only script that featured them was Gibsons which was dicarded a long time before Fincher was even considered. Eric Red and David Twohy both wrote scripts sans Hix n Noot before Fincher came on. When Renny Harlin walked, Vincent Ward wrote the basic bones of the story that would become Alien3 - also without Hix n Noot. Then he walked, and Giler, Hill, Rex Pickett and Larry Ferguson all had turns at it.
If Fincher was to make the film he really wanted, he would've been involved from the writing stage.
QuoteTo this day, he hates Alien 3. It was a corporate cash grab just to see if any more change can be squeezed out of Alien and Aliens.
Well, putting aside that
every movie produced by a studio is a corporate cash grab - if it really was a cynical as you make it out to be, they would've made precisely what you wanted - Aliens Part 2 with New and Improved Gunz and Sposhunz. Instead they tried something different.
QuoteThis is JAMES CAMERON we are talking about; the best sci-fi director on the planet.
Assuming you're correct here - 2014 James Cameron is not 1985 James Cameron. 1985 James Cameron nicked all the major beats from Alien and brilliantly hid them in a different genre. 2014 James Cameron doesn't bother hiding anything and just blatantly goes for style and spectacle, without so much as a whiff of substance.
Since alien 3 the franchise has had problems and the community has been very split and possibly continuing from aliens could a good course of action.
How "good" is going to be for all the people who like Alien3?
I respect your opinion on alien 3 and find you very informative about the series. It would be great if we could all find something in the continuity to agree on that would benefit all fans.
Simple solution is - if you don't like the movies after Aliens, don't watch them.
That is true but then it returns back to a similar question to your question what about the other fans?
Whom?
The ones who that would like to see a continuation from aliens.
At the risk of repeating myself - get over it.
At the risk of repeating myself again - there's plenty of comics and video games that do precisely that.
You can get over it as well. :P
I have nothing to get over. I dig Alien3.
I like aliens and I respect alien 3. I don't have a quarrel with you.
Were we quarrelling?
I assumed we were, if not I enjoyed our conversation.
QuoteHix n' Noot
As a Canadian I really appreciate this.
Quote from: DwayneHicks on Jul 22, 2014, 05:23:53 AM
I assumed we were, if not if not I enjoyed our conversation.
宇亜炉痔気
I think it best to invent new characters for a continuation of the series.
Quote from: Spoonman101 on Jul 22, 2014, 07:03:19 AM
QuoteHix n' Noot
As a Canadian I really appreciate this.
Quote from: DwayneHicks on Jul 22, 2014, 05:23:53 AM
I assumed we were, if not if not I enjoyed our conversation.
宇亜炉痔気
Sorry. As a Canadian, I also appreciate this. Sorry. That is, unless you have a problem with me appreciating the fact that you appreciate someone enjoying a conversation only upon confirming that it is not in fact an argument then I am truly sorry. Also sorry about being sorry. Sorry.
Quote from: SM on Jul 22, 2014, 05:08:53 AM
I have nothing to get over. I dig Alien3.
I dig Alien 3 as well. I think most of us do as a completely stand alone film. But it is most likely neither for you, not for me, nor for most of us why we fell in love with the Alien franchise. Nobody is going to come to your house and take your copy of Alien 3, or your great video game, or your Alan Dean Foster novelization. Its all great fun Alien 3 stuff. But I think in relation to the previous Alien films, it took the series in such a left field direction, that for the past 20 years, Fox has been thinking of how to get the series back on the right track. A continuation of James Cameron's Aliens film by James Cameron, featuring Hicks, Ripley, Newt, and maybe even Bishop is the solution. Come on, you know a part of you wants to see this become a reality...
Fans of the idea are invited to join our Facebook group below and to keep spreading this idea to other Aliens / Predator fan sites.
https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
Quote from: Skulexander on Jul 22, 2014, 11:24:12 AM
I think it best to invent new characters for a continuation of the series.
In other words, the main characters that would remain are just the Aliens themselves which are "just stupid animals". That would be the equivalent about making 2 movies about crocodiles with different characters and saying that they are somehow related. It would be like making a Batman movie without Bruce Wayne. The core of the Aliens / Predator world is the Aliens film. It is why most of us still care about this series.
SM, is there any way to get access to "Gibson's Script" you mentioned earlier? I'd love to give that a read.. Thanks!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 22, 2014, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Spoonman101 on Jul 22, 2014, 07:03:19 AM
QuoteHix n' Noot
As a Canadian I really appreciate this.
Quote from: DwayneHicks on Jul 22, 2014, 05:23:53 AM
I assumed we were, if not if not I enjoyed our conversation.
宇亜炉痔気
Sorry. As a Canadian, I also appreciate this. Sorry. That is, unless you have a problem with me appreciating the fact that you appreciate someone enjoying a conversation only upon confirming that it is not in fact an argument then I am truly sorry. Also sorry about being sorry. Sorry.
Sorry. I didn't mean to approach your thread in a jocular manner. Sorry, real sorry aboot that. Also sorry aboot your conversation not being an arguement in which sometimes it's considered healthy but scary but if you find it not scary then I'm sorry aboot making you sound like a cowering Calgary coyote, sorry eh. You must be a ferocious Quebecois lass or a tenacious Aboriginal native of Toronto? If not, then I'm sorry aboot mistaking your race or sex. If so then I'm sorry for being sorry and saying sorry for you being those things that I said sorry to you for.. Sorry aboot that...
Oh also sorry for this idea being bad
Aliens 2
IMDb: 1.2
Rotten Tomatoes: 7%
Its ok Spoonman. Just continue to "feel the rhythm with your hands". Sorry. ;)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 22, 2014, 03:11:09 PMIn other words, the main characters that would remain are just the Aliens themselves which are "just stupid animals". That would be the equivalent about making 2 movies about crocodiles with different characters and saying that they are somehow related. It would be like making a Batman movie without Bruce Wayne. The core of the Aliens / Predator world is the Aliens film. It is why most of us still care about this series.
That is SO untrue. Of COURSE you can make an ALIENS movie as long as it has ALIENS in it. I dunno about you, but personally, a lot of the reason I watch movies like these is for the villains. The whole alien species is unique and has its own personality that I find interesting. Sure, we grew to love the characters in the Aliens movie, but who's to say we can't do the same for new characters? What's wrong with falling in love with new characters? The aliens are a setting, and you can put any characters you want into a setting. Are you saying you don't care if the new movie had aliens in it so long as it had Ripley, Newt, Hicks and Bishop? Really? The actors are old. They're not going to de-canonize 3 and 4. No one's going to want to watch it if they get new actors for the roles. It's just not gonna happen. Besides, even if they did de-canonize 3 and 4, why should they make another sequel? The characters already went through Hell and back. They already had their story told. Putting them through the same thing again would just be redundant.
Quote from: Skulexander on Jul 22, 2014, 06:35:43 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 22, 2014, 03:11:09 PMIn other words, the main characters that would remain are just the Aliens themselves which are "just stupid animals". That would be the equivalent about making 2 movies about crocodiles with different characters and saying that they are somehow related. It would be like making a Batman movie without Bruce Wayne. The core of the Aliens / Predator world is the Aliens film. It is why most of us still care about this series.
That is SO untrue. Of COURSE you can make an ALIENS movie as long as it has ALIENS in it. I dunno about you, but personally, a lot of the reason I watch movies like these is for the villains. The whole alien species is unique and has its own personality that I find interesting. Sure, we grew to love the characters in the Aliens movie, but who's to say we can't do the same for new characters? What's wrong with falling in love with new characters? The aliens are a setting, and you can put any characters you want into a setting. Are you saying you don't care if the new movie had aliens in it so long as it had Ripley, Newt, Hicks and Bishop? Really? The actors are old. They're not going to de-canonize 3 and 4. No one's going to want to watch it if they get new actors for the roles. It's just not gonna happen. Besides, even if they did de-canonize 3 and 4, why should they make another sequel? The characters already went through Hell and back. They already had their story told. Putting them through the same thing again would just be redundant.
We can agree to disagree on this point. I respect your position, and if an Aliens retcon film comes out, you can watch it at your free will. I am definitely with you that Fox should not just pick up where the last film left off. It should probably be set 20-25 years after. The actors will do just fine. The characters could find themselves as reluctant participants. I don't know. I'm just saying I and many others would love to see such a film with James Cameron at the helm. If it is going to happen, it should be soon or will be too late...
It's not going to happen soon. Cameron's going to be tied up with Avatar for the next 5 years, by which time he'll be in his mid-60s. Siggy will be pushing 70, Lance will be pushing 80.
QuoteI think most of us do as a completely stand alone film.
It's not a completely stand alone film though. It's utterly reliant on Aliens for its setup. And I think you'll find many view the films - at the very least - as a trilogy.
Continuing to make wild generelisations isn't going to help your argument.
QuoteCome on, you know a part of you wants to see this become a reality...
Why? I like the fact they took the road less travelled with Alien3, in spite of the films myriad flaws. And if I didn't, I'd go read the comics where Hicks, Newt and Ripley lived.
QuoteSM, is there any way to get access to "Gibson's Script" you mentioned earlier? I'd love to give that a read.. Thanks!
Probably just Google 'Alien 3 William Gibson'. It should bring up a bunch of results.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 21, 2014, 10:54:13 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 21, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
Even if "most of us" did want another James Cameron Alien film - you don't need to change continuity in order to achieve that. He could just make another Alien film.
But that's highly unlikely to happen. Why not just enjoy the one he did make?
Because for most if us it has been squeezed dried of enjoyment.
I honestly don't know what this means. Squeezed dry of enjoyment? How?
Yeah. I never get tired of that movie.
Quote from: Skulexander on Jul 24, 2014, 06:41:15 AM
Yeah. I never get tired of that movie.
You mean Aliens right? There's no way to get tired of it IMO. It's just so well done. The movie changed the tone of science fiction for decades to come after it.
It sags in the middle a bit.
Quote from: SM on Jul 17, 2014, 08:32:28 PM
Most of us got over this 22 years ago. Hicks and Newt (and Ripley and Bishop for that matter) are dead.
Fox isn't going to 'decanonise' Alien3 or Resurrection.
If you want to have adventures along the lines of the comics - you have the comics.
Hicks is alive!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 18, 2014, 02:43:24 AM
We got a "proper sequel", it was called 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' and it even managed to not undo 'Alien3' in the process.
Wizard.
When played back to back with Infestation and S.I. I think ACM very well could be the best story arc in the Aliens and humans only part of the series.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 18, 2014, 03:33:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 18, 2014, 03:22:27 AM
Your definition of "proper" may vary.
Having played the game three times, the last one giving me a headache which lasted for days and keeping in mind of the inconsistencies which were pointed out.. I'd hardly consider it proper, no matter what Fox or anyone says. And this is coming from someone who enjoys a large bulk of the Expanded Universe.. Hish mythos and PREDATORS EU material not withstanding.
You shouldnt be getting headaches, theres not that many inconsistencies, at the most no where near as many as Aliens, or Alien 3, or Prometheus.
It's exciting to see that Sigourney Weaver wants to do Alien 5. It seems that this is a bit different than the proposed Alien Continuity Change proposed here but it is still an interesting development. Perhaps anyone knowing Sigourney Weaver could bring up the idea with her of continuing where James Cameron's film left off. As a co-producer in this series, she would have a lot of pull.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jul/25/sigourney-weaver-fifth-instalment-alien-saga (http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jul/25/sigourney-weaver-fifth-instalment-alien-saga)
QuoteYou shouldnt be getting headaches, theres not that many inconsistencies, at the most no where near as many as Aliens, or Alien 3, or Prometheus.
The only inconsistencies in A:CM are the premise and every single location that tries to recreate a film on location. On a couple of levels.
Not many at all...
QuoteAs a co-producer in this series, she would have a lot of pull.
Her co-producer status isn't much more than honourary.
SM, I'm trying to get through the ACM game now. On the "raven" level now. On the downside, there are many inconsistencies, but the feel of the film is often well captured. Anyone notice that somehow there is only enough space for one dropship suddenly in the Sulaco's dropship bay? Oh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics. Wish those never happened...
QuoteAnyone notice that somehow there is only enough space for one dropship suddenly in the Sulaco's dropship bay?
Many people noticed. Apparently none of them worked for Gearbox. And that's only the beginning.
QuoteOh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics.
Storywise, they had much more going for them for at least half the run.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Oh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics. Wish those never happened...
Considering that the Alien/Predator EU is going the way of the New 52.. Either those are now rendered an AU or they simply aren't canon anymore. :-[
Resurrection already did a pretty good job of that.
QuoteOh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics.
Storywise, they had much more going for them for at least half the run.
[/quote]
At the risk of being OT, I agree on this point. It kind of started off good and then they changed the plan of the comic run from 12 issues to 10. I don't know the machinations in the background of what happened with the series, but its like they totally changed direction halfway through, creating a story that went nowhere. I suspect that maybe Dark Horse received new direction from Fox and they had to deep six their ideas. It's interesting how similar "Royal Jelly" was to the "Black Goo". Those "Bug Men" were very much along the lines of Fifield from Prometheus...
I don't think Fox was terribly hands on back then. The CM comics nose dived after they left Bracken's World and it's like they rushed to finish the story off in a manner that was nothing short of dreadful.
Quote from: SM on Jul 28, 2014, 10:04:17 PM
QuoteYou shouldnt be getting headaches, theres not that many inconsistencies, at the most no where near as many as Aliens, or Alien 3, or Prometheus.
The only inconsistencies in A:CM are the premise and every single location that tries to recreate a film on location. On a couple of levels.
Not many at all...
But your not taking into account the remodeling of some of the sections done by WY.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
SM, I'm trying to get through the ACM game now. On the "raven" level now. On the downside, there are many inconsistencies, but the feel of the film is often well captured. Anyone notice that somehow there is only enough space for one dropship suddenly in the Sulaco's dropship bay? Oh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics. Wish those never happened...
Might have something to so with a protection procedure. Just like in the NAVY the humans ships are compartmentalized, since Infestation takes place a little before ACM something may have closed to prevent damage to both dropships when the giant alien went flying into space as a result of explosive damage.
Just a interesting note, in one of the multiplayer maps aboard the Sulaco, one of the computers shows damage to the ship where that alien in infestation was blown out into space.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 29, 2014, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Oh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics. Wish those never happened...
Considering that the Alien/Predator EU is going the way of the New 52.. Either those are now rendered an AU or they simply aren't canon anymore. :-[
Going by what the said and sega they are canon and in the same universe =] If you don't like that remember you pointed out there are unlimited verses were anything can and has happened, or not happened ; ).
lol
QuoteBut your not taking into account the remodeling of some of the sections done by WY.
Correct. Because such a notion is ridiculous.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 29, 2014, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 28, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
Oh we'll, it is certainly better than the old Aliens Colonial Marines comics. Wish those never happened...
Considering that the Alien/Predator EU is going the way of the New 52.. Either those are now rendered an AU or they simply aren't canon anymore. :-[
I don't remember anyone definitively saying anything of the sort.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 30, 2014, 04:11:17 AM
I don't remember anyone definitively saying anything of the sort.
Mike Richardson said it over at the RedditAMA, he said and I quote: "Basically, we're starting over."
You sure as hell don't get anymore clear, to the point and blunt as that.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 30, 2014, 04:30:59 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 30, 2014, 04:11:17 AM
I don't remember anyone definitively saying anything of the sort.
Mike Richardson said it over at the RedditAMA, he said and I quote: "Basically, we're starting over again."
You sure as hell don't get anymore clear, to the point and blunt as that.
They said they were "starting over" with the DH Press novels too, and then those ended up not contradicting anything and in fact actually referencing prior EU stuff anyway.
Mike Richardson also works for Dark Horse, not for FOX. We'll see if the new stuff actually messes anything up (I doubt it).
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 30, 2014, 04:30:59 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 30, 2014, 04:11:17 AM
I don't remember anyone definitively saying anything of the sort.
Mike Richardson said it over at the RedditAMA, he said and I quote: "Basically, we're starting over."
You sure as hell don't get anymore clear, to the point and blunt as that.
Interesting. Unsurprising, but still interesting.
Quote from: SM on Jul 29, 2014, 12:59:34 AM
Resurrection already did a pretty good job of that.
But...but...the Big Deletion! :P
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jul 30, 2014, 04:30:59 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 30, 2014, 04:11:17 AM
I don't remember anyone definitively saying anything of the sort.
Mike Richardson said it over at the RedditAMA, he said and I quote: "Basically, we're starting over."
You sure as hell don't get anymore clear, to the point and blunt as that.
Good. I hope they actually try and be consistent here.
I don't think the EU as it currently stands is anywhere near as inconsistent as some people want to believe.
has there been any news on the comics?
Are they stil l supposed to come out in the next few months?
Yes they are, they'll start rolling out over the course of September and October.
http://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga (http://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga)
Hi PO: there's a lively discussion about that article going on over here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51438.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51438.0)
Quote from: Russ on Oct 06, 2014, 12:06:04 PM
Hi PO: there's a lively discussion about that article going on over here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51438.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51438.0)
Thanks Russ, that's great. Also, here is the link to a Facebook fanpage in support of this idea. All are invited.
https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 18, 2014, 02:39:30 AM
SM, you make valid points. Naturally, nobody stays up at night thinking about this, but the world was very different 22 years ago. There was no way to really let Fox know what fans are clamoring for. It was because of Dark Horse's ideas that AVP comics were created, and it was because of the online demands by the fans that the AVP movies were created. We the fans now have way more power than before as we are true stakeholders in the franchise. If enough of us want this, it could happen. It's not the first time a film series revamped its continuity half way through. The Halloween franchise did this even before Rob Zombie came on board.
Hicks, Newt, Ripley, and Bishop aren't dead (their signs are real low but they ain't dead ;-) ) because they're just fictional characters in a movie. I don't believe that most people got over this 22 years ago. Most people would agree and probably even Fox that it was a bad decision to kill off all the main characters in Alien3. Basically, the film makers just painted themselves into a corner with no possibility for continuation unless something ridiculous like resurrection happened. They've been trying to think of something clever to make the franchise work again, but I think they are starting to realize that a great way to save the franchise is to continue where Aliens (the biggest hit) left off. People were so emotionally invested in those characters. This sort of approach may actually bring James Cameron back to the Aliens series. He has expressed how much he was connected to the characters he created. It's ok to dream of the ultimate Aliens continuation by James Cameron. Why not? Are you saying you wouldn't enjoy such a film?
But really, nobody's forcing anybody into anything. I'm starting a movement because James Cameron's film Aliens had a tremendous impact on me as an industrial designer and it would be worth the effort for me to see him do another installment. Who's in?
Join www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (http://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change). Let Fox know how much we would all love a proper James Cameron sequel to Aliens...
Lmao at thinking corporations listen to fans. Ever heard of Nickelodeon?
Xeno cameo in Avatar II btw
It certainly seems that with Neill Blomkamp's recent Aliens related activities, the possibility of a retcon which features Hicks is on the table. If you are interested in following the Alien 5 development story and the possibility of Hicks or Newt's inclusion in the next ALien 5, please join us at:
www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (http://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
Didn't OmegaZilla already warn you about this?
Yes but that was after I already posted the above. Sorry about that folks.
From now on I will keep these ideas within this thread.
Anyway, there is now an interesting petition which is apparently supported by Michael Biehn to bring back his classic Hicks character. I invite people who are in support of the idea to join the petition.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/20th_Century_Fox_studio_Bring_back_M_Biehn_as_Hicks_and_S_Weaver_as_Ripley_to_the_new_Alien_movie/?nIftQib
Nope.
Much as I would like to have Hicks and everyone back, I see no wish to retcon Alien 3.
You don't even need to retcon Alien3 to bring back Hicks.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 18, 2015, 06:41:01 AM
You don't even need to retcon Alien3 to bring back Hicks.
Then what would be the point of bringing Hicks back? :P
I'm in the "it's over and done with" camp.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 18, 2015, 06:41:01 AM
You don't even need to retcon Alien3 to bring back Hicks.
...We don't speak of that game!
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 18, 2015, 08:53:36 AM...We don't speak of that game!
I think he was referring to the possibility of cloning Hicks.
At least, I hope he wasn't suggesting
ACM...
But the issue with cloning is - what would be the point?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 18, 2015, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 18, 2015, 08:53:36 AM...We don't speak of that game!
I think he was referring to the possibility of cloning Hicks.
At least, I hope he wasn't suggesting ACM...
But the issue with cloning is - what would be the point?
Oh you'd better believe I was referring to ACM. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 18, 2015, 02:19:48 PMOh you'd better believe I was referring to ACM. :P
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.badassdigest.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F15417%2Fnooooooooooo__span.jpg&hash=69f70f10ba3a97d9ade6ea89e6dea088dce34590)
Hud, call Mr. Weyland, tell him we need to have someone "disappear" for using "unsanitary methods". not even they would even use A:CM :laugh:
Ok, so it looks like we will have Alien 5 with all the buzz generated. This is truly awesome. I think whether you are a fan of the retcon or not, you have to admit that this is the most exciting Alien news of the year so far. Now this is still conjecture but it seems based on the art, it seems that Michael Biehn / Hicks will be involved. If so, I see some distinct possibilities on how that will play out. The below 3 come to mind. Which do you prefer most?
-Full retcon - Alien 3 and AR did not happen. A new continuity is established post-Aliens.
-Semi retcon - Alien 3 and AR remain canon. This would be basically along the lines of A:CM video game.
-Full continuity - Alien 3 and AR remain canon but for some arcane reason Hicks comes back weather through cloning or as an android some other reason.
We don't know if the art is indicative of the direction Blomkamp will actually take the movie, the art was pretty much just him spitballing ideas for a fantasy project. We'll have to wait and see what actually plays out.
Yeah, we've no idea yet if the new film even has anything to do with Blomkamp's leaked concept art. It might go in a totally new (Hicks-less) direction if Fox don't want to override the events of the previous films.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2015, 09:22:36 AM
Yeah, we've no idea yet if the new film even has anything to do with Blomkamp's leaked concept art. It might go in a totally new (Hicks-less) direction if Fox don't want to override the events of the previous films.
I am hoping for this.. I am STRONGLY hoping for this.
Same.
While I'm not averse to Hicks coming back per se, the problem I have is that every means for that happening that I have seen suggested on here is, at best, completely unbelievable and nonsensical, and at worst, utterly ridiculous and stupid.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2015, 09:29:44 AM
While I'm not averse to Hicks coming back per se, the problem I have is that every means for that happening that I have seen suggested on here is, at best, completely unbelievable and nonsensical, and at worst, utterly ridiculous and stupid.
For me anyway, bringing back Hicks seems like it's just done for fan pandering.. Which is what happened in a certain video game which we will not speak of. Like I said, in regards to Dwayne Hicks... let sleeping dogs lie.
Well naturally, its conjecture until everything is confirmed, but I think that due to the photos we've seen it is a fair discussion to discuss the possibility of a Hicks Ripley return, and what would us fans think is the best way to do that...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 02:44:23 PM
Well naturally, its conjecture until everything is confirmed, but I think that due to the photos we've seen it is a fair discussion to discuss the possibility of a Hicks Ripley return, and what would us fans think is the best way to do that...
Oh by all means continue discussing it! There is strong evidence to suggest that we could get Ripley and Hicks back due to the concept art but keep in mind, that was Blomkamp essentially doing a fan thing... until he got the job anyway. So discuss away but I have to ask myself, is this really what fans want? Ellen Ripley (not Ripley 8) and Dwayne Hicks returning?
I'll say this.. fans don't know what they want until they get it.
Well that's partly true. I mean, I want Hicks and Ripley to return in a direct continuation to Aliens, but if the execution is bad or the story is stupid then naturally I would just prefer the status quo. Would it be fair to say that if a retcon were done right and at the same quality level as Scott's and Cameron's works that most fans would accept such a change? I think so, but everybody is entitled to their own opinion...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 05:23:16 PM
Well that's partly true. I mean, I want Hicks and Ripley to return in a direct continuation to Aliens, but if the execution is bad or the story is stupid then naturally I would just prefer the status quo. Would it be fair to say that if a retcon were done right and at the same quality level as Scott's and Cameron's works that most fans would accept such a change? I think so, but everybody is entitled to their own opinion...
I am actually one of the people who liked Alien 3. I am actually one of the people who liked Alien 3 a little bit more when I watched the Assembly Cut. Completely different movies, if you compare the Theatrical and Assembly cut. I accept the Assembly cut as canon over the theatrical cut. Oh, I am aware that for the most part, theatrical releases are definitive unless stated otherwise but if you ask me, the Assembly cut is the better of the two Alien 3's.
If a retcon happens and if it's on the same level of Scott or Cameron's? You know, I wouldn't really like a retcon at all. I mean if it's good, great.. I can pick and choose which of the sequels I want as canon or treat both as alternative canons. Fine. But for me.. I just am getting a little exhausted with all the retconning. And I'm more of a Predator/AVP fan than Alien.. and yet, the idea of a retcon still irks me.
But I still stand by what I say, fan's don't know what they want until they get it.. And when they get it, either they don't want it or they'll take and accept it.
I really wanted the AVP films to happen and then it did, and it was a big let-down so who knows?
Anyway, I've said it many times, I love ALIEN 3. Its one of my favorite films of all time. I often put it on in the background as I am working on something. And I agree that the alternate version is way better. Those moments on the beach at the beginning? Priceless.
A retcon doesn't mean that someone will come and take your movie away. It can remain a cult classic. As long as Blomkamp does a good job, I think there is the serious potential for something really great to happen. Its an exciting time!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 05:55:29 PM
I really wanted the AVP films to happen and then it did, and it was a big let-down so who knows?
I liked the AVP movies because they, or at least the first movie took some elements of the old EU material such as Predators harvesting Xenomorphs, using them for their initiation rite rituals, and I actually liked the whole Ancient Aliens angle which it brought. Sure a lot of people said the first movie did nothing to expand but it did with the whole pyramid thing. Was it the movie which we wanted where it was set in space and had colonial marines? No, not at all and I think we as a fandom whole would've been happier had the movie been set in space and set more in an ALIENS related era. But I'm happy with the first film as it is..
Now Requiem on the other hand... I used to defend this movie but people have pointed out it's flaws. And over time I have come to recognize those flaws while watching the movie without the rose tinted glasses. To say it in the nicest, possible way-- it's a very flawed movie. From the Alien designs, to the one sided treatment.. Yeah, I get why people hate this movie.. But you know.. I still can't help but just enjoy it.
...I'm expecting pitchforks and torches now.. Ha ha!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 05:55:29 PM
Anyway, I've said it many times, I love ALIEN 3. Its one of my favorite films of all time. I often put it on in the background as I am working on something. And I agree that the alternate version is way better. Those moments on the beach at the beginning? Priceless.
The Assembly Cut had a lot going for it and it makes you realize that Alien 3 is a an unrealized diamond in the rough. There is more content in the movie, there is more character development and character relationship build up. The Assembly cut has so much more going for it and it makes you wonder exactly WHY did Fox try to interfere with the way the movie was going? One could only imagine had Fincher been able to do with the movie had he not been fired from the set and allowed to do what he set out to do. I mean in my opinion, Alien 3 gets a lot of flak because it's not a happy ending.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 05:55:29 PM
A retcon doesn't mean that someone will come and take your movie away. It can remain a cult classic. As long as Blomkamp does a good job, I think there is the serious potential for something really great to happen. Its an exciting time!
That much is true and while we do have the memories, be they pleasant or bad... there is a sense of.. I don't know, validation? I think that's the word. A sense of validation that fans get when something is made canon or remains in the canon. So when something is retconned, they no longer feel that their view of this fictional world is no longer validated. I think that's what I am trying to say here in regards to these negative feelings of two entries being retconned. Not just for myself but other fans who liked, the last two Alien movies.
I liked Blomkamp's District 9. As soon as I saw it I wanted him to do an Alien, Predator or even an AvP movie. And now that it's happening, it is exciting but I am indifferent right now and will wait to hear more news.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 20, 2015, 06:22:32 PMThe Assembly cut has so much more going for it and it makes you wonder exactly WHY did Fox try to interfere with the way the movie was going?
Because studios are f*cking idiots. Look at the two cuts of
Kingdom of Heaven.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 20, 2015, 06:54:55 PM
Because studios are f*cking idiots. Look at the two cuts of Kingdom of Heaven.
Never saw that movie.
The hacked-up theatrical version is a mess, but the Director's Cut (which in this case is a legit director's cut) is one of Ridley's best films in my eyes.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 20, 2015, 04:24:09 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 20, 2015, 02:44:23 PM
Well naturally, its conjecture until everything is confirmed, but I think that due to the photos we've seen it is a fair discussion to discuss the possibility of a Hicks Ripley return, and what would us fans think is the best way to do that...
Oh by all means continue discussing it! There is strong evidence to suggest that we could get Ripley and Hicks back due to the concept art but keep in mind, that was Blomkamp essentially doing a fan thing... until he got the job anyway. So discuss away but I have to ask myself, is this really what fans want? Ellen Ripley (not Ripley 8) and Dwayne Hicks returning?
I'm guessing that Blomkamp would like to bring back Rip and Hicks, but the producers will probably want him to rework his ideas into more of a stand-alone film. I expect that what we'll get is a film that will be what an
Aliens sequel could have been with just a few alterations.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 21, 2015, 05:26:32 AMI expect that what we'll get is a film that will be what an Aliens sequel could have been with just a few alterations.
We have an
Aliens sequel. It's called
Alien 3.
If you're talking about an
Aliens clone, then that's exactly what I
don't want. Apart from the fact it will likely be inferior, thanks to how iconic the original is, the way in which all the
Alien films are so different is my favourite thing about them. None of them simply aped what came before, but, for better or worse, went in a different direction.
QuoteWe have an Aliens sequel. It's called Alien 3.
Never heard of it. :P
What I mean is we may get what could have been a sequel with Ripley and Hicks, only it won't be Ripley and Hicks. It will be with new characters in a similar situation.
And if we
do get Ripley and Hicks, that doesn't necessarily mean the film will be an
Aliens clone.
Ideally, an Aliens sequel with Hicks and Rip should be helmed by James Cameron, but that will not happen. ALiens was much more than just the performance of the actors. It was about Cameron's filmmaking which is incomparable. The wawy he uses blue colors in everything is amazing. Blomkamp will not and probably should not try to replicate that. Its anybody's guess how good this film will be, but Hicks and Rip combo makes me optimistic. Its the story I've wanted to see for 30 years. So many people on here are in denial about what they really want to see. But maybe it makes sense to lower your expectations and have a disdain for the return of Hicks and Ripley. It will make your enjoyment of their comebuck that much greater...
Just give me the pulse rifle sound...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 21, 2015, 05:29:00 PMSo many people on here are in denial about what they really want to see.
:laugh: Thank God you know what I want better then myself. Where would I be without you.
Can't we all just agree that we want aliens in the next alien movie?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 23, 2015, 07:00:47 AM
Can't we all just agree that we want aliens in the next alien movie?
No, this is a fan forum. We can't agree on anything.
Quote from: Russ on Feb 23, 2015, 09:59:15 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 23, 2015, 07:00:47 AM
Can't we all just agree that we want aliens in the next alien movie?
No, this is a fan forum. We can't agree on anything.
Agreed. Let's agree to disagree...
Hard to believe that I started the Aliens Continuity Change Facebook page on July 17, 2014 and 7 months later we have confirmation that this is exactly what is going to happen. I mean I don't pretend to think that this is my doing but the timing is perfect. Mission accomplished.
Let's go retcon, let's go!! Let's go retcon, let's go!!
Hey hey, ho ho! Alien 3 has got to go!
Not so fast there, you've seen Blomkamp's latest quote, right? :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
Not so fast there, you've seen Blomkamp's latest quote, right? :)
Earlier statements suggest he's not following Alien 3 or Resurrection though.. but they're not rendered non-canon.
Still, I find it hard that another Alien movie would take place between Aliens and Alien 3. How long were Ripley, Newt and Hicks floating in space from LV-426 to Fury-161?
Nevermind.. According to this Calendar: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/calendar.aspx?y=2179 (http://www.worldtimeserver.com/calendar.aspx?y=2179)
And of course SM's Alien timeline: http://timeline.alienexperience.com/2127to2179.html (http://timeline.alienexperience.com/2127to2179.html)
There is a span of twelve days from July 28th 2179 to August 8th, 2179. Technically speaking, something COULD theoretically happen within a span of twelve days.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 28, 2015, 05:38:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
Not so fast there, you've seen Blomkamp's latest quote, right? :)
Earlier statements suggest he's not following Alien 3 or Resurrection though.. but they're not rendered non-canon.
Still, I find it hard that another Alien movie would take place between Aliens and Alien 3. How long were Ripley, Newt and Hicks floating in space from LV-426 to Fury-161?
Nevermind.. According to this Calendar: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/calendar.aspx?y=2179 (http://www.worldtimeserver.com/calendar.aspx?y=2179)
And of course SM's Alien timeline: http://timeline.alienexperience.com/2127to2179.html (http://timeline.alienexperience.com/2127to2179.html)
There is a span of twelve days from July 28th 2179 to August 8th, 2179. Technically speaking, something COULD theoretically happen within a span of twelve days.
On the first day of Alienmas, my true love gave to me...
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 28, 2015, 05:38:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
Not so fast there, you've seen Blomkamp's latest quote, right? :)
Earlier statements suggest he's not following Alien 3 or Resurrection though.. but they're not rendered non-canon.
"Not following" can mean a whole lot of things. 'Predators' didn't "follow" 'Predator 2' or AvP, but it didn't erase them from the timeline, either.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 06:06:06 AM
"Not following" can mean a whole lot of things. 'Predators' didn't "follow" 'Predator 2' or AvP, but it didn't erase them from the timeline, either.
Like how Godzilla 1985 served as a direct sequel to the original 1954 movie and didn't follow the other Showa era films?
I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say here, but I don't think you want it to be said because you don't like the idea.
It's going to be an alternate timeline, and everyone needs to deal with it.
Mark my words, because tiptoeing around it would be the equivalent to ACM's hoaky garbage.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 28, 2015, 06:45:01 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 06:06:06 AM
"Not following" can mean a whole lot of things. 'Predators' didn't "follow" 'Predator 2' or AvP, but it didn't erase them from the timeline, either.
Like how Godzilla 1985 served as a direct sequel to the original 1954 movie and didn't follow the other Showa era films?
I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say here, but I don't think you want it to be said because you don't like the idea.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. :) He's outright said he isn't planning to undo Alien3 or Resurrection.
Which could mean he isn't going to try and George Lucas it, just make an alternate timeline story.
But that would undo Alien3 and Resurrection.
"Alternate timelines" is a concept that only makes sense in a franchise with, you know, time travel. Star Trek and Back to the Future have "alternate timelines".
The Alien series isn't known for its time-travel.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 08:56:07 PM
But that would undo Alien3 and Resurrection.
"Alternate timelines" is a concept that only makes sense in a franchise with, you know, time travel. Star Trek and Back to the Future have "alternate timelines".
The Alien series isn't known for its time-travel.
No, SW (Star Wars) has had alternate stories and that's what this'll be.
Two separate canons essentially, one does not invalidate the other.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Feb 28, 2015, 09:10:53 PM
No, SW (Star Wars) has had alternate stories and that's what this'll be.
Two separate canons essentially, one does not invalidate the other.
Or again, doing what the Godzilla franchise has done with the Showa, Heisei and Millennium era films. Which is the same thing you said. All of them are their own seprate continuities and canons. All in all, I am in agreement with you and I hope that's what happening here.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Feb 28, 2015, 09:10:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 08:56:07 PM
But that would undo Alien3 and Resurrection.
"Alternate timelines" is a concept that only makes sense in a franchise with, you know, time travel. Star Trek and Back to the Future have "alternate timelines".
The Alien series isn't known for its time-travel.
No, SW (Star Wars) has had alternate stories and that's what this'll be.
Two separate canons essentially, one does not invalidate the other.
That's not really an equivalent comparison - up until recently, Star Wars had "canon" and "non canon". Now they still do, it's just that a ton of stuff has been moved from "canon" to "non canon" (with the option to potentially move some of it back as time goes on).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:14:56 AM
That's not really an equivalent comparison - up until recently, Star Wars had "canon" and "non canon". Now they still do, it's just that a ton of stuff has been moved from "canon" to "non canon" (with the option to potentially move some of it back as time goes on).
Then it would be better to compare our franchise with either Godzilla, Halloween, Robocop.
Godzilla has different continuities, some of them being mutually exclusive, others sharing and branching off from certain movies. We've got the Showa, Heisei, Millennium.. and now Legendary. In the case of the Millennium series, the only one with a true continuity is Godzilla x MechaGodzilla, and Tokyo SOS-- which shares continuity with Godzilla 1954, Mothra and War of the Gargantuas. I've heard some fans state that Toho has admitted that there are alternate timelines/universes but I've found no official statements... Yet.
And then of course the Robocop franchise, namely the original-- that one has multiple timelines and the studio which owns that franchise hasn't stated explicitly there are alternate timelines though there are. You've got the Robocop movie timeline, the Marvel-Sunbow timeline, TV live-Action Series timeline, and now.. the Reboot timeline. In the case of the first three, they branch off the original 1987 movie. All are different timelines. No time travel needed to explain that there's more than one.
Halloween's franchise? Again.. alternate timelines. Halloween IV through VI and the H20 timeline are mutually exclusive. Of course, they were intended to be one shared continuity but that attempt never made it on screen and was left on the cutting room floor, so therefore, there are two timelines. Infact, I remember reading a statement that someone official from H20 said there were alternate timelines.
Why can't the same be said for the Alien-Predator franchise? And don't say it's because they can't, or you don't like it.
QuoteWhy can't the same be said for the Alien-Predator franchise? And don't say it's because they can't, or you don't like it.
Because up until now we've had no reason to believe there were ever multiple timelines at work in the Alien franchise. Even when there were monumental contradictions (Alien3 wiping out large swaths of the comics, for instance), there were retcons done to bring it all back into one singular timeline.
And no, I don't like it, and I've explained why to you in a bunch of other threads. I'm okay with multiple timelines in plenty of other franchises, but A/P/AvP is not among them.
Every franchise doesn't need to be a multiverse, and in fact, some of them aren't. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:40:46 AM
Because up until now we've had no reason to believe there were ever multiple timelines at work in the Alien franchise. Even when there were monumental contradictions (Alien3 wiping out large swaths of the comics, for instance), there were retcons done to bring it all back into one singular timeline.
Sure, we've had no reason to believe there were multiple timelines at work. The same could be said about Halloween and Robocop. Godzilla? Not so much considering that in the Heisei film Godzilla vs King Ghidora, there was time travel involved which more or less retconned the original 1954 movie and the events of 1954 didn't happen. But in the case of Halloween and Robocop, we were never really given a reason to believe there were multiple timelines.. but proof is in the pudding that there is.
I am aware of the retcons. I know that Hicks and Newt in the original material were rewritten as Wilkes and Billy, and I know that Ripley was re-written to be a synthetic. But as SM had pointed out, Resurrection came along and more or less negated that.. but then the EU material had to retcon that retcon with the Big Deletion.
Now, I haven't read the Titan Publishing books (and I don't care to) and I haven't read Fire and Stone either (again, I don't care to) but I've read comments here and there that more or less, they tossed out the whole Big Deletion angle too on the forums. At least from Ultramorphs notations on the new reading material.
But I know what you're trying to do.. Give me the old run around. I'm not playing this game. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 01:40:46 AM
And no, I don't like it, and I've explained why to you in a bunch of other threads. I'm okay with multiple timelines in plenty of other franchises, but A/P/AvP is not among them. Every franchise doesn't need to be a multiverse, and in fact, some of them aren't. :)
Remind me again as to
WHY you don't like it?
QuoteNow, I haven't read the Titan Publishing books (and I don't care to) and I haven't read Fire and Stone either (again, I don't care to) but I've read comments here and there that more or less, they tossed out the whole Big Deletion angle too on the forums. At least from Ultramorphs notations on the new reading material.
Fire and Stone takes place 200+ years pre-Deletion anyway.
QuoteRemind me again as to WHY you don't like it?
You just quoted it. :)
I prefer the Alien series to be a single timeline. That's how it has been, that's how I'd prefer it to stay.
Could someone pls clarify for me what the big deletion is?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 01, 2015, 02:54:45 PM
Could someone pls clarify for me what the big deletion is?
A big pile of dung. Trying to circumvent information in Alien: Resurrection (The aliens apparent extinction.)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 01, 2015, 02:54:45 PMCould someone pls clarify for me what the big deletion is?
It was a pretty ridiculous event the comics came up with to try and justify how everyone in the fourth film has no memory of the Earth being completely taken over by the Aliens, as happens in the comic books.
The big deletion was indeed a weak explanation. Even if all tangible evidence of the aliens was wiped out, given all the stuff that happened in the comics, many stories would have been passed down.
It also implies literally nothing is noted down on physical formats in the future. I find it pretty hard to believe no one scrawled something on a wall while the shit was hitting the fan. Cavemen manages that just fine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 01, 2015, 05:21:23 PM
It also implies literally nothing is noted down on physical formats in the future. I find it pretty hard to believe no one scrawled something on a wall while the shit was hitting the fan. Cavemen manages that just fine.
The Big Deletion is a sloppy solution for a problem that wasn't nearly as big as The Big Deletion (and many fans) made it out to be. It's very easy to interpret Alien Resurrection's characters as being nowhere near as oblivious as some might like to believe, and doing so renders the Big Deletion unnecessary anyway.
They were pretty straightforward in saying that "for all intents and purposes, she succeeded" in exterminating the Aliens. If there were any other sources that the USM could have obtained their Alien specimens from they surely would have done it that way rather than going through the trouble of cloning Ripley eight times.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 02, 2015, 01:14:42 AM
They were pretty straightforward in saying that "for all intents and purposes, she succeeded" in exterminating the Aliens. If there were any other sources that the USM could have obtained their Alien specimens from they surely would have done it that way rather than going through the trouble of cloning Ripley eight times.
This, IMO the simple fact was the EU was generally not very intelligent.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 02, 2015, 01:38:43 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 02, 2015, 01:14:42 AM
They were pretty straightforward in saying that "for all intents and purposes, she succeeded" in exterminating the Aliens. If there were any other sources that the USM could have obtained their Alien specimens from they surely would have done it that way rather than going through the trouble of cloning Ripley eight times.
This, IMO the simple fact was the EU was generally not very intelligent.
Aside from that not being a "fact" (it's an opinion), there's plenty of intelligent EU stuff out there.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 02, 2015, 01:14:42 AM
They were pretty straightforward in saying that "for all intents and purposes, she succeeded" in exterminating the Aliens. If there were any other sources that the USM could have obtained their Alien specimens from they surely would have done it that way rather than going through the trouble of cloning Ripley eight times.
You said it yourself: if there were any other sources. Perhaps there weren't?
I guess you missed the IMO- which means "in my opinion"
I got caught up on that word "fact" you used I guess.
The big deletion could be the fact that most if not all humans on earth were wiped out. I'm getting that most people think of deletion as a cover up or simple deletion of historical records and data. Earth's a shit hole in the movie, the place looks f**king dead, so much so you can crash a star ship into it, wipe out a quarter of South America(was it?) and no one appears to care.
To be fair the Auriga's destruction wasn't quite that destructive - it exploded in the upper atmosphere.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2Fwmf09s.png&hash=e8f24782f11cef11bbba108519546dc380cf814e)
I had to check just to be sure but that is not a tiny explosion at all. :P
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 02, 2015, 01:14:42 AM
They were pretty straightforward in saying that "for all intents and purposes, she succeeded" in exterminating the Aliens. If there were any other sources that the USM could have obtained their Alien specimens from they surely would have done it that way rather than going through the trouble of cloning Ripley eight times.
I actually find that to be a somewhat vague statement. If everything in the EU happened between Alien 3 and Resurrection but ended with humans losing touch with xenomorphs, then she did in fact succeed in her own way.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 02, 2015, 06:43:46 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2Fwmf09s.png&hash=e8f24782f11cef11bbba108519546dc380cf814e)
I had to check just to be sure but that is not a tiny explosion at all. :P
It isn't, but the idea is that the Auriga hit the upper atmosphere and crumpled like a beer can, exploding from bow to stern without actually hitting the ground. The Auriga miniature was actually rigged to explode like that, similar to how the building destruction effects were filmed for 'Independence Day', but the shot ultimately wasn't used. Incidentally it was recreated in CGI form in the Alien Resurrection video game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qb6duwyzsE#).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 08:14:46 AMIt isn't, but the idea is that the Auriga hit the upper atmosphere and crumpled like a beer can, exploding from bow to stern without actually hitting the ground.
You mean like how that comparatively tiny asteroid in Russia exploded in the upper atmosphere and did huge amounts of damage?
Or the Tunguska asteroid, which was also an airburst and far smaller than the Auriga, yet which blew with a force 1,000 times greater than that of the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima?
The ending of
Resurrection is laughable, they would've killed millions. Why didn't they just fly the ship into the sun? Or another uninhabited planet?
Maybe explosions are weaker in the Alien franchise for whatever reason. I mean the Atmosphere Processor exploded in 'Aliens' but Hadley's Hope survived it, and the Nostromo exploded three times but the flight recorder managed to survive the blast.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
The Auriga crashes into an uninhabited part of Africa.
The end.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 08:59:07 AMI mean the Atmosphere Processor exploded in 'Aliens' but Hadley's Hope survived it
According to a really shit game that was full of moon-sized plot holes... including that one. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 08:59:07 AMthe Nostromo exploded three times but the flight recorder managed to survive the blast.
On a serious note, I always assumed the flight recorder was automatically jettisoned before the explosion. It had a whole five minutes where the process is irreversible before actual detonation.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 09:20:14 AMThe Auriga crashes into an uninhabited part of Africa.
Makes no difference. An explosion the size of the one in the screenshot above would seriously f*ck the planet.
HuDaFuk, correct, correct and correct.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 09:37:43 AM
Makes no difference. An explosion the size of the one in the screenshot above would seriously f*ck the planet.
That depends on a lot of things.
Tungaska et al. exploded much, much closer to the ground, for one thing. If the area underneath the explosion was uninhabited/uninhabitable, it's not going to kill anyone. It's not a nuclear explosion, so no radiation. The atmosphere already looks like it's screwed (Johnner flat-out calls Earth a shithole and France looks like it's been nuked in the DC, so...), so dust and debris thrown up aren't going to make matters much worse.
It's a very big explosion that would be heard and felt around the world and seriously f**k with anyone under it (had the area not been uninhabited), but it's not some Earth-destroying event.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 11:12:57 AMIt's a very big explosion that would be heard and felt around the world and seriously f**k with anyone under it (had the area not been uninhabited), but it's not some Earth-destroying event.
Look at the size of that fireball. It's
vast. An explosion that big is going to have global consequences. Not to mention you can actually see the shockwave spreading from it through the clouds - a shockwave moving that fast with sufficient energy to move the entire cloud layer on that scale is going to literally flatten everything in its path.
I never said the blast would destroy the entire world, but it'd certainly make a dent (metaphorically, before you complain it wouldn't literally make a hole in it).
I agree, the explosion of Auriga is shown to be very, very big. It's size of a country! It's always bothered me as well, but it obviously has to be sloppy CGI put together at the last minute. Must have been a slow brain day for the team back then, because it's pretty apparent how out of scale it is.
Unless Auriga itself is size of a small country...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 09:37:43 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 02, 2015, 08:59:07 AMthe Nostromo exploded three times but the flight recorder managed to survive the blast.
On a serious note, I always assumed the flight recorder was automatically jettisoned before the explosion. It had a whole five minutes where the process is irreversible before actual detonation.
I agree, that's how I rationalized it as well.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 02, 2015, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 11:12:57 AMIt's a very big explosion that would be heard and felt around the world and seriously f**k with anyone under it (had the area not been uninhabited), but it's not some Earth-destroying event.
Look at the size of that fireball. It's vast. An explosion that big is going to have global consequences. Not to mention you can actually see the shockwave spreading from it through the clouds
That's why I maintain that the explosion is misleading. I can blot the sun out with my thumb, but that's because my thumb is a lot closer to my face than the sun is. The explosion could appear to be much larger and more destructive than it is because it's actually happening in the upper edge of the atmosphere, many miles above sea level, much closer to the perspective of "the audience" than something that's actually hitting the ground.
The Auriga was over 2 miles in length and least us not forget that the plan was to RAM it into the earth. Even an atmospheric detonation would have been disastrous for miles and miles. What's shown in the movie is a very bad day for anyone near that event.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 03, 2015, 05:06:35 AM
The Auriga was over 2 miles in length and least us not forget that the plan was to RAM it into the earth. Even an atmospheric detonation would have been disastrous for miles and miles. What's shown in the movie is a very bad day for anyone near that event.
I don't really dispute that, although it's worth pointing out that even if they intended to crash the ship, that doesn't mean that's what happened - the Space Shuttle needed to come in at a very precise angle otherwise it would burn up on re-entry, and I somehow doubt they were giving much consideration for the Auriga's safe passage to the ground when it was coming in at a
massively steep angle. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 03, 2015, 04:47:10 AMI can blot the sun out with my thumb, but that's because my thumb is a lot closer to my face than the sun is. The explosion could appear to be much larger and more destructive than it is because it's actually happening in the upper edge of the atmosphere, many miles above sea level, much closer to the perspective of "the audience" than something that's actually hitting the ground.
While that
might conceivably account for the size of the fireball, it does nothing to mitigate the shockwave. I restate what I said earlier - a shockwave moving that fast with sufficient energy to move the entire cloud layer on that scale is going to literally flatten everything in its path.
Ka-pow.
Yep, the shockwave looked like it was going to spread quite far around the earth as well, so yeah, a bad day for everyone there and if it was ground level, I presume some tsunamis would happen too.
From the looks of things in the director's cut version, it doesn't look like things could have gotten much worse.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 03, 2015, 08:55:02 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 03, 2015, 04:47:10 AMI can blot the sun out with my thumb, but that's because my thumb is a lot closer to my face than the sun is. The explosion could appear to be much larger and more destructive than it is because it's actually happening in the upper edge of the atmosphere, many miles above sea level, much closer to the perspective of "the audience" than something that's actually hitting the ground.
While that might conceivably account for the size of the fireball, it does nothing to mitigate the shockwave. I restate what I said earlier - a shockwave moving that fast with sufficient energy to move the entire cloud layer on that scale is going to literally flatten everything in its path.
I always took the spreading clouds to be more evidence that it was happening at a really high altitude.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 04, 2015, 03:17:57 AMI always took the spreading clouds to be more evidence that it was happening at a really high altitude.
Even if it was, the amount of cloud movement there would be catastrophic on the ground. Plus, it would probably be worse if the explosion was in the atmosphere. That's why nuclear bombs use airburst detonation - it makes the damage on the ground more severe.
Least to mention that it had inertia and the mass of a 2 mile long ship. All of that is still heading in the same direction after the explosion.