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Back in August Bloody Disgusting reported that Neill Blomkamp’s Alien 5 (or 3.2) was being held back due to Ridley Scott’s Prometheus sequel. Blomkamp took to Twitter a few days later and reported that wasn’t quite true. However, according to the latest Tweet from Blomkamp Alien 5 is actually “kinda holding/ pending prometheus 2“.

alien is kinda holding/ pending prometheus 2. So I shall be working on other things… as much as I love the xeno- and Lt ripley

— Иeill BlomkΛmp (@NeillBlomkamp) October 30, 2015

To what extent Alien 5 is being held back is unknown but it may appear to be a significant delay considering that Blomkamp is moving his energies elsewhere in the meantime. So I would expect to see less news on Alien 5 and more on Ridley Scott’s Alien: Paradise Lost which starts filming early next year.

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I'm disappointed but on the bright side it does mean we're not being overloaded. I imagine franchise fatigue might be an actual concern now-a-days.

To be fair, both of these films are going to have a fight winning most of the fans over. Means they get to focus their energies, I guess.

Wasn't expecting it for 2-3 years anyway, so it's no surprise he's working on other stuff...

Arrrrrghhhhhh this is bull crap! Who the heck wants to see Prometheus 2?! Who?! I'm guessing this is Fox wanting to stay in business with Ridley Scott after The Martian took off. Even though Exodus was a big budget dud and The Counselor didn't do them any favors either...Truly disappointing.

This can either be a good thing.. or a bad thing.. Hard to say but I'm seeing this as a neutral thing.

As for an over-load.. well... I don't think there is an over-saturation going on but you know.. it is what is. Maybe we'll see Paradise Lost, Shane's Predator, and then Alien 3.2.

It might be healthy for story development.

Not surprised at all. Also agree with razeak.

As long as he ignores Alien 3 (not that I hate Alien 3, I love it but.. I don't want him touching it), and doesn't go the dream or memory implant route, I don't care how long it takes.

I think Fox have seen the poor reception Terminator Genisys received (i know fox no longer have the rights) in the western box office (even though it performed better in china) and have got cold feet at the risk of doing either a retcon or alternate timeline approach to the Alien franchise. This coupled with Blomkamps recent films not exactly performing as expected and fox is a business, they would put the project on hold and place more emphasis on Scott with his prometheus sequel, after the success of the martian.With Ridley going back in the direction of exploring the alien franchise too, i think the studio will invest more in that, Scott has a story to tell and the studio seem to like it. I for one would much prefer to see a prometheus sequel, which explores the xenomorphs origins and  the engineers more, i'm looking forward to alien:paradise lost. If there is still a link to Ellen Ripleys character, i think it will either be the nostromo or another character related by name.

Very mixed in this regard.  On one hand, I was looking forward to seeing what Blomkamp could do with Alien animatronics.  On the other hand, I'm kind of happy that we aren't getting some simplistic retcon of the series that might have taken out A3 and Resurrection.  Also, this will probably mean that Prometheus 2 will be bigger and grander and have more Alien elements, but on the other hand, if it isn't good, we won't be able to say "Oh well, at least we have Alien 5 to look forward to."

aaaaaand this movie is not happening.
The director saying he is going to do other things just doesnt mean him alone. This means everyone else is now going out to do other things.

Now they will have to reschedule everything again when this thing restarts. And that will probably delay it even more.

This thing is not happening.

Maybe they'll ditch the idea of bringing back Ripley and Hicks and actually move the series forward.

Funny how Fox specifically didn't want Prometheus to be direct Alien film, it did ok business but not great word of mouth and sequel is now a direct Alien movie. Blah. #HickLives

Quote from: Wobblyboddle77 on Oct 30, 2015, 04:03:35 AM
I think Fox have seen the poor reception Terminator Genisys received (i know fox no longer have the rights) in the western box office (even though it performed better in china) and have got cold feet at the risk of doing either a retcon or alternate timeline approach to the Alien franchise. This coupled with Blomkamps recent films not exactly performing as expected and fox is a business, they would put the project on hold and place more emphasis on Scott with his prometheus sequel, after the success of the martian.With Ridley going back in the direction of exploring the alien franchise too, i think the studio will invest more in that, Scott has a story to tell and the studio seem to like it. I for one would much prefer to see a prometheus sequel, which explores the xenomorphs origins and  the engineers more, i'm looking forward to alien:paradise lost. If there is still a link to Ellen Ripleys character, i think it will either be the nostromo or another character related by name.

^This^

Blomkamps idea to retcon the series is not reassuring. Especially seeing how Genisys (which tried to do the same thing) was rejected by audiences and critics alike.  Compare that to Ridley Scott who just hit it out of the park with the Martian and its no wonder why Fox has decided to move ahead with the Prometheus sequel and not a Alien retcon.

Quote from: viendammage on Oct 30, 2015, 02:11:08 AM
Arrrrrghhhhhh this is bull crap! Who the heck wants to see Prometheus 2?! Who?! I'm guessing this is Fox wanting to stay in business with Ridley Scott after The Martian took off. Even though Exodus was a big budget dud and The Counselor didn't do them any favors either...Truly disappointing.

^This, nobody cares about Prometheus 2 anymore, Alien 5 was where all the attention was.

Yeah, no, not really. I'm not surprised this thing has evaporated after his last two bombs. It always came off as a derivative rehash of his other films which he was trying to get off the ground based solely on social media hype. And it doesn't look enough like a new story, really - just looks like run 'n gun fanfic.

wow that SUCKS!  screw prometheus,  I want Alien 5!  *sigh*

Who is saying that Alien 5 or Alien 3.2, whichever you want to call this movie is not happening? It's just simply being delayed until Ridley Scott manages to get the Prometheus sequel out of the way. I mean it's going to happen but when.. not sure. If the movie is cancelled, I can tell you that a lot of fans are going to be pissed because they have put in a lot of emotional investment into this. And with Ridley producing the Alien movie, why would he even abandon it?

Also.. How is Terminator Genisys affecting Fox's view on Blomkamp's movie retconning Alien 3 and Resurrection? Genisys is not their movie and it shouldn't be any concern of theirs. As for Fox getting cold feet on retconning Alien 3 and Resurrection... if they had cold feet, there is no way they would've allowed Blomkamp to do the vision which he wants to do. He's already indicated where the movie fits and how it does. If Fox didn't want him to do the retcon, he'd have walked out before the thing was even announced.

I'm not all that surprised, but bummed out. The notion of these Alien films (both Sir Ridley's and Blomkamp's) having a grander large scale story unfold from both ends of the spectrum was really tantalizing. We'd get the creepier Lovecraftian stuff in prequel land with Paradise Lost, while Blomkamp's idea of an older perhaps wiser Ripley confronting the creatures a few decades after Aliens in sequel land. Blomkamp's film likely would have been a bit more like Cameron's approach, which to me is fine. It would've provided a bit of a contrast to what Ridley seems to be exploring with his strand of Alien/Prometheus story DNA.

Shared universe storytelling is all the rage these days. I find a lot of the shared universe stuff being announced nowadays to feel too gimmicky (Ghostbusters, Men In Black + 21 Jumpstreet ???). What was being hinted at here with two strands of storytelling for Alien was really a cool and potentially new idea for a shared universe saga. It's definitely a downer knowing that we will only see a smaller nugget of that larger scale storyline.

Not gonna lie... A small part of me is angry with this news.

Yeah I'm not surprised. Ridley Scott just made an epic sci fi movie (possibly even best picture for the year) The Martian is making tons of money, and it only proves Ridley Scott gets first dibs. The Martian was a hit and Chappie wasn't (I'm not saying I didn't like Chappie mind you)

My guess is that when they compared stories they didn't make much sense. Fox probably decided to go with Scott's Alien story instead.

On top of all that did you really want to see Siguorney Weaver fighting Aliens in her 60's??? This might be good news for the franchise. Plus what would they do for Newt? Re-cast? Kill off the character again? Hire some smoking hot blonde and say she aged in her cryo tube?

Ripleys story line is semi over. It sucks they made Ressurection, but I don't want them continuing that story line. Let's see what Alien Paradise Lost brings to the table. Also lets hope Ridley Scott lost Damon Lindeloffs phone number.

The thing is, Blomkamp and Fox really... don't have the best relationship. Not since Fox had butted heads with Blomkamp over the cancelled Halo movie. I'm just wondering if this will lead to a repeat of things and leave a lot of fans soured.. Really soured.

im sick of this shet, you know what fark this movie , im not waiting 5 years now, to watch it, for what because of Prometheus 2, alien 5 is where its at and since fox would rather wait till that box office plays out then dam, because of these problems surrounding the combination of these two films with ridley scott producing them both count me out on seeing ether one at theaters, buying or better yet ever watching ether one. why not wait one more day and release the news on Halloween ? time to break my Prometheus blue ray disc

terminator genisys fell short in the states because of Jurassic world, that film was predicted to make around 110 million first weekend, well it made double, terminator was always in trouble box office wise as soon as those numbers came in, or better yet any movie in its release slot, its just logic. don't know what the big deal was about Jurassic world, Jurassic park 3 sucked, and look at those box office numbers for that film

Hopefully, this and the failure of Genisys will put a crimp in the nostalgia-heavy side of modern movie making.  I mean, a few nods here and there are okay, but stuff like Genisys and what this movie was looking like just go too far; you can't keep a franchise alive long term with "back in the day" feels.  If anything, Jurassic World paved the way for how things should be done; a restart of a franchise that is the beginning of its own epic and might well have the same impact on the decade's culture as Jurassic Park did in the 90s, while not retconning anything and having some well-placed nods to the first film.  That is how I think reboots of classic franchises should be; respect for old continuity while creating something unique and different for a new era.

Let's give this generation their own Alien saga, not some 80s retrofuturistic retread.

I for one welcome this news.

It's for the best, really.

I'm actually kinda surprised by this, given that Scott was only recently dropping 2017 as a release date for Blomkamp's film.

What people are saying about the Genisys effect makes a lot of sense though. To be honest, scrapping a silly retcon is great news as far as I concerned, but it sounds like it might not be totally off the table yet.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Oct 30, 2015, 06:26:57 AMThat is how I think reboots of classic franchises should be; respect for old continuity while creating something unique and different for a new era.

If it follows on from the existing continuity, then by definition it is not a reboot. People (a lot of the media included) really need to learn what the word reboot means in a serial fiction context. It doesn't just mean "new entry after a long time".

whos confused? i am. but honestly i rather see Prometheus 2 no matter how sloppy will be the script because of Fassbender than an Alien 3 rewrite with Mr Idirectthesamemoviesallthetime guy

YAY!!!!! no fanboy retcon fanfilm.

Quote from: swarm87 on Oct 30, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
YAY!!!!! no fanboy retcon fanfilm.

Pretty much this. Alien3 lives on (for now) and I couldn't be happier.

Well we ALL know what this means.... NB for AVP³!

Seriously dudes.

FOX probably doesn't want to spend the money and resources for two separate Alien movies at this point.  It's one thing for a crew to film two sequels back to back, but this would've involved the work of two entire production crews working on separate but similar projects.

Quote from: DaddyYautja on Oct 30, 2015, 04:12:47 AM
aaaaaand this movie is not happening.
The director saying he is going to do other things just doesnt mean him alone. This means everyone else is now going out to do other things.

Now they will have to reschedule everything again when this thing restarts. And that will probably delay it even more.

This thing is not happening.

No one else was attached to this movie aside from Blomkamp, Scott and Weaver. It's not like they already had a cast and film crew signed on or were busy building props and sets. The first draft of the script was only handed in recently.

Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Oct 30, 2015, 04:31:54 AM
Yeah, no, not really. I'm not surprised this thing has evaporated after his last two bombs.

Elysium and Chappie bombed?  ???

Quote from: Kelgaard on Oct 30, 2015, 11:15:51 AM
FOX probably doesn't want to spend the money and resources for two separate Alien movies at this point.  It's one thing for a crew to film two sequels back to back, but this would've involved the work of two entire production crews working on separate but similar projects.

Most likely, as I said a while back, it's likely just an issue of funding and scheduling.

Scott has a long standing relationship with Fox, producing and directing. If The Martian hadn't done as well I bet they would have given Blomkamp the go ahead with return of Ripley. I honestly don't know who at the studio is amped for Prometheus 2 or that Scott himself is chomping at the bit to do it. It makes sense business wise since Pro has the young  cast and recent exposure but word around an Aliens 2 has generally been positive and stirred up excitement since the artwork dropped months ago. Whereas Prometheus garnered some bonafide anger from viewers even though I liked it well enough.
As a bigger fan of Aliens over Alien or Prometheus, I couldn't help but smack my lips at the prospect of Ripley and Hicks 30 years later, the possibilities of a new, broader world with an old school action grit could really be something interesting. Versus offering a half baked origin story about the space jockey that should have already been answered if Prometheus wasn't half prequel, half reboot.
The Terminator comparison has some merit but in that case having Arnold might have hurt the film as he's way too much in the public eye after governor, divorce, love child, etc. People just don't want to pay to see him even when he's been making excellent films. Plus the concept isn't as fresh and the CGI is no longer groundbreaking.
Having Weaver and Biehn back is a hardcore fans dream come true while neither is gonna guarantee or repel seats in butts. If the trailers looked good and Blomkamp does his job, the concept and visuals would be enough to sell it. I also think it could be a smaller picture and investment but who knows. I still want to see Aliens 2 and maybe it will happen but it just lost all of its momentum in favor of a movie that it seems no one is clamoring for.

^Good post.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Oct 30, 2015, 11:12:04 AM
Well we ALL know what this means.... NB for AVP³!

Seriously dudes.

Bring it!

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 30, 2015, 09:35:11 AM
I'm actually kinda surprised by this, given that Scott was only recently dropping 2017 as a release date for Blomkamp's film.

I was actually kinda surprised by Scott's "2017" release date. Was figuring it would release sometime in 2018, because in order to get it into cinemas by 2017, Blomkamp would have needed to start filming hot off the heels of Paradise Lost which already has a development lead of about 2 years.

Well I think this is good news. Means we have Alien 3 for longer and it fits with the fact that Blomkamp had to change elements of his planned story because of what Ridley wanted to do with Paradise Lost.

Also means I can get back to my script (Provisionally titles; Alien : Bloodlines)

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 30, 2015, 01:19:18 PMI was actually kinda surprised by Scott's "2017" release date. Was figuring it would release sometime in 2018, because in order to get it into cinemas by 2017, Blomkamp would have needed to start filming hot off the heels of Paradise Lost which already has a development lead of about 2 years.

Fair point, but still, it implies the film was still on course when he said it, and that was only recently.

I am hearing a lot of people say that the Alien 3 retcon  not happening even if Blomkamp does his movie later on. Where on any film news site do they stay this?

It doesn't. People keep saying the delay is indefinite which isn't what Blomkamp said.

I like that Blomkamp specifically mentioned "Ripley" in his post which implies that she will factor into his film.  However, this is probably the worst news of the year so far with regards to the Aliens universe.  While there is nothing to suggest that the film is permanently off the rails, this does not bode well.  I think it is literally the most important thing to reset the continuity after the Aliens film if the franchise is to be saved.  Many people share this opinion, and many don't.  Anyway, it's just opinion.

I make a point of not posting this often to not be a pain in the ass, but given today's happenings, I would like to invite people who are in favor of a franchise reset post-Aliens to join the page on Facebook dedicated to this.  Look for Aliens.Continuity.Change on Facebook if you support the idea of a retcon or just want to see how this plays out.  Cheers!

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Oct 30, 2015, 02:28:08 PMI think it is literally the most important thing to reset the continuity after the Aliens film if the franchise is to be saved.

To suggest that is literally the only way for things to move forward is ridiculous in the extreme.

Huda why are you disparaging my opinions?  I don't disparage yours.  They're just opinions.

What the hell has 'Genisys' got to do with this? The reasons that failed have nothing to do with it being a retcon and everything to do with poor script, direction and casting.

'Terminator 2' effectively retconned some of 'The Terminator'. Are we also going to say retcon = success because of that, too? A lot of people also seemed to like how the recent 'X-Men' film has also retconned a lot of that history, too - and that was successful. Silliness...

The reason for this undoubtedly has everything to do with Ridley Scott being a producer on Blomkamp's enterprise. He won't be able to do an effective job of that if he's simultaneously so immersed in helming the 'Prometheus' sequel. To say that slight delay therefore must mean the other film will no longer happen, has no basis in reality. It's been green-lit - the budget has been authorised. It's simply a matter of timing, no more, no less. Hardly a first in Hollywood.

Also, look at the quote: "Alien is kinda holding/pending 'Prometheus 2'."

That means P2's schedule is responsible for altering A5's. It's nothing to do with whether or not there is/isn't a retcon or whether it would/wouldn't work. Assuming a retcon features, any potential problems Fox might have with that would have already been dealt with.

It's just Scott having his fingers in too many pies and needing more time to commit. Possibly also some story elements he's told NB he'd like to have crossed over, but which need revealing in P2, first. But almost certainly finding time for obligatory producer duties.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Hopefully the extra time allows them to make the movie even better when it does come to fruition.

Alien 5 is still happening guys, just saying.  We just have to wait longer.  And I guarantee, EVERYONE on this site will see it when it comes out eventually, just like P2.  We're alien fans, after all.

I just REALLY hope A5's not changed to drastically.  I mean, this was/is THE 1st Alien-only movie since 1997's A:R!  No predators or Prometheus crap mixed in.  Pure Alien(s).  How it should be imo.  And even better, its a sequel to Aliens!.........cant wait to see it..........one day........

YES YES YES!!! I hope Fox reconsider the direction they're taking with the Alien franchise with Blomhack, is he's not good enough writer/director to come with a good original idea then he doesn't deserve to be part of an Alien movie.

Worst news of the year! You can bet this delay is indefinite. Sucks, I wanted to see Blompkamp's vision. Also, pretty sure this has little to do with Genysis, and more to do with how the Martian is doing. It show's that Scott still has "it". Genysis retconned the franchise's mlst beloved movies (the first two). Alien 5 would continue off of the favorited movies of the Alien franchise (the first two) and ignore the 3rd and 4th, which a lot of people were HAPPY to hear
*sigh*

"...as much as I love the xeno- and Lt ripley"

Exactly!, he doesn't love the Alien movies, he just want Ripley be AGAIN AND AGAIN the main protagonist instead create a good story, he just want to erase Alien 3 in favor of wet fanfiction just because, I hope Fox get another writer/director who truly respect and love the Alien franchise.

Quote from: Beatnation on Oct 30, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
"...as much as I love the xeno- and Lt ripley"

Exactly!, he doesn't love the Alien movies, he just want Ripley be AGAIN AND AGAIN the main protagonist instead create a good story, he just want to erase Alien 3 in favor of wet fanfiction just because, I hope Fox get another writer/director who truly respect and love the Alien franchise.

Yeah, Alien 3 and Resurrection sure knew how to continue in the direction with new, interesting protagonists without bringing Ripley back.... wait...

But Resurrection didn't have any bullshit fanfic shit, like Ripley clones and Ripley having Alien superpowers and having psychic connections to the Aliens... right?!

To me Alien:RE it's an isolated story, it's so far ahead in the future it doesn't bothers me,  but Alien 3 should have been the end of Ripley story, if they want more Alien movies... that's actually great, but find a new lead, Ripley story ended with Alien 3, get over it.

It's not a surprise. We knew it was going to be a while before it came out. But what happens to Weaver, Biehn and Blomkamp in the mean time? Isn't Weaver going to be tied up with three Avatar sequels in the near future. They can't really leave it for that much longer. There's much more hype for this Blomkamp project than anything Ridley Scott is doing. I guess all the interest in Alien 5 has kickstarted Ridley Scott to get his act together and get Prometheus 2 made. Maybe Ridley should take a page out of Blomkamp's book and post some concept art too.

Quote from: Darkness on Oct 30, 2015, 03:58:58 PM
It's not a surprise. We knew it was going to be a while before it came out. But what happens to Weaver, Biehn and Blomkamp in the mean time? Isn't Weaver going to be tied up with three Avatar sequels in the near future. They can't really leave it for that much longer. There's much more hype for this Blomkamp project than anything Ridley Scott is doing. I guess all the interest in Alien 5 has kickstarted Ridley Scott to get his act together and get Prometheus 2 made. Maybe Ridley should take a page out of Blomkamp's book and post some concept art too.

It's up to Blomkamp to go off and do a kick ass movie that is a big hit. Then Fox will be begging for him to come back to do Aliens 2. Flip side is that he may lose interest or he'll go do a flop and Fox won't want to be in business with him. Weaver will not struggle for work and Biehn is financially stable from all the conventions he does to the point he turns down random roles. Which is sad for me cause I'd like to see more of him in movies. I hope this comes back around but man was that announcement a punch in the movie going fan gut!

Quote from: Beatnation on Oct 30, 2015, 03:55:25 PM
To me Alien:RE it's an isolated story, it's so far ahead in the future it doesn't bothers me,  but Alien 3 should have been the end of Ripley story, if they want more Alien movies... that's actually great, but find a new lead, Ripley story ended with Alien 3, get over it.

Tell that to FOX. FOX has NEVER been able to let go of Ripley. Alien: Resurrection was the prime example of that. People would have been fine with it ended with A:3, but nope. And of course, we have the new books, Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows (which had Ripley's descendent, who has a psychic connection to the damn Aliens!).

So if this movie continues Ripley's story and also brings it to a close while ignoring A3 and beyond... I'm okay with that.

Ugh, he called the alien a 'xeno'.

This really is just as well. I was little more than morbidly curious, anyway.

This guy is pissing me off! he keeps chatting shit first by retconning Alien 3 then this what next!

[Rage induced screaming intensifies], who in their right mind would have EVER WANTED Prometheus, let alone Prometheus 2. I hated the first one with the rage of two million suns. It completely fudged up everything it tried to do. I've wanted an Alien 5 for years, and now it get's the shaft because of this crappy sequel. At this rate we'll all be in nursing home chairs trying to get a peek at this beautiful gem.

This is great news for two reasons really. Firstly, it means that it's going away for a while and may be forgotten. Secondly, if it does come back hopefully a new story is worked out that makes sense and Fox bring someone in to write the screenplay.

I'm sure it's about both Genisys and Scott's new hit.

Putting aside Ridley Scott and the success of The Martian, Terminator: Genisys was a huge, retro nostalgia-infused gamble designed to reignite that flagging franchise and create a new revitalized "cinematic universe" for the property from which that studio could spin out many more sequels. Sound familiar? They were even talking about a new TV show. But the film was one of the biggest turkeys of the year, and that's all been scuttled.

I have no doubt Fox (and other studios) took stock of the Terminator situation, and decided maybe having a director whose last two films were very poorly received mount a similar kind of revival which largely resembles not only all his other films but also glorified retro-nostalgia fanfiction was not in their best interest.

I knew that this would happen. Fox will always ruin something when something too good happens. Remember when Cameron wanted to do Alien 5 in the early 2000's and Fox had the project die in order to do AVP. History has repeated itself again. This is why I feel like that we will never get a Alien 5 because something else has to get in the way first.

Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

"Nerd fan fic retcon" I get, but I think you'll have to elaborate on "pussified".

Again, this is an opportunity to do the Alien equivalent of Jurassic World; a story completely in continuity, yet introduces totally new plot lines and characters for the next generation.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 30, 2015, 08:48:48 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

"Nerd fan fic retcon" I get, but I think you'll have to elaborate on "pussified".

The crybaby "waaaahh waaaahhhhhh hicks and newt are dead" nerd faction who were then thrilled by the idea of a 23 year old plot point being "fixed". I just feel like these people were supporting artistic drivel, people who want things to be exactly like they wish and can't get over a 23 year old creative decision. Grow a pair, get a life!

I wasn't too keen on Blomkamp's ideas for the film so this "delay" doesn't bother me one bit.

I'm more excited for Paradise Lost and would take another story that expands an existing world rather than retconing away interesting stories from the old canon.

Shane Black said it best, why reboot when the old universe has such a rich lore to explore? Alien doesn't need to constantly rely on Ripley. Is it so hard for Mr. Blompamp to make a new strong female lead for the film? Isolation gave us Amanda Ripley, sure technically she's Ripley, but not ELLEN Ripley. I'd rather he get more creative and give us some new characters to enjoy.

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 09:06:24 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 30, 2015, 08:48:48 PM

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

"Nerd fan fic retcon" I get, but I think you'll have to elaborate on "pussified".

The crybaby "waaaahh waaaahhhhhh hicks and newt are dead" nerd faction who were then thrilled by the idea of a 23 year old plot point being "fixed". I just feel like these people were supporting artistic drivel, people who want things to be exactly like they wish and can't get over a 23 year old creative decision. Grow a pair, get a life!

Yea that's pretty much pussy. Guys need to just learn to deal with it. Hick and newt are dead and I can live with that.  :laugh:

For those Alien³ haters however, Ridley will retcon the movie by stating that the Alien was a bioweapon designed to only destroy man via the host method. Yep, it's like a virus and only attacks the host it was designed too. So, sorry, no dog or ox alien, Alien³ is done for. :P

As much as I want to see another alien movie... kind of glad the movie being hinted at won't happen.

^
Oi, viruses mutate!  :P

I am with you though, whiterabbit, I'd much rather see a new and interesting story with new and interesting characters that expands existing stories rather than contradicting them. Why can't he just not mention Alien 3 and Resurrection?

Predators ignored Predator 2, it didn't overwrite it so it's easy for people who enjoyed Predator 2 to also enjoy Predators as part of the same universe.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 30, 2015, 03:11:05 PM
What the hell has 'Genisys' got to do with this? The reasons that failed have nothing to do with it being a retcon and everything to do with poor script, direction and casting.

'Terminator 2' effectively retconned some of 'The Terminator'. Are we also going to say retcon = success because of that, too? A lot of people also seemed to like how the recent 'X-Men' film has also retconned a lot of that history, too - and that was successful. Silliness...

The reason for this undoubtedly has everything to do with Ridley Scott being a producer on Blomkamp's enterprise. He won't be able to do an effective job of that if he's simultaneously so immersed in helming the 'Prometheus' sequel. To say that slight delay therefore must mean the other film will no longer happen, has no basis in reality. It's been green-lit - the budget has been authorised. It's simply a matter of timing, no more, no less. Hardly a first in Hollywood.

Also, look at the quote: "Alien is kinda holding/pending 'Prometheus 2'."

That means P2's schedule is responsible for altering A5's. It's nothing to do with whether or not there is/isn't a retcon or whether it would/wouldn't work. Assuming a retcon features, any potential problems Fox might have with that would have already been dealt with.

It's just Scott having his fingers in too many pies and needing more time to commit. Possibly also some story elements he's told NB he'd like to have crossed over, but which need revealing in P2, first. But almost certainly finding time for obligatory producer duties.

Quoted for Wisdom, Truth and Clarity!

Nothing has been written in stone. In fact, until we hear otherwise, this movie will happen. Way too much excitement [FOX -read "money"] for this to become a crumpled pile in the trash.

I love how this news post has devolved into the typical banter of "Retcon/No Retcon." Born of Cold Light has the idea I believe more fans should embrace. New characters, same timeline/universe.

Respect people's opinions guys, girls and guests. No need to get nasty.   

Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Oct 31, 2015, 12:23:53 AM
New characters, same timeline/universe.

Are we sure that this movie is going to be in the same timeline as Alien 3? I mean all signs point to it not really being such, given Blomkamp's statements regarding Ellen Ripley and the fact we're seeing a pulse rifle, which likely would've been discontinued in manufacturing post Resurrection era.

The problem is people are too critical of this darn movie. It's like, yes its a cash grab, we know it, it's not going to re-invent the wheel, it's just another take like JC's Aliens on steriods. Nothing wrong with it, it will happen but the marketing machine tells us not to think about it too hard right now. I'm comfortable with that.

Quote from: Beatnation on Oct 30, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
"...as much as I love the xeno- and Lt ripley"

Exactly!, he doesn't love the Alien movies, he just want Ripley be AGAIN AND AGAIN the main protagonist instead create a good story, he just want to erase Alien 3 in favor of wet fanfiction just because, I hope Fox get another writer/director who truly respect and love the Alien franchise.

If you had read or watched any interviews with the guy, you would never have written that. The guy loves the films. Has seen the original on a massive screen, in a way the rest of us simply can't afford to. Has been one of the few directors out there to say the series needs to return Freudian Lovecraftian themes to the subtext and Giger's biomechanics.

And you claim he doesn't appreciate the films?

You also forget he had an original story in mind already and it was Weaver who convinced him to modify it, so that Ripley can return.

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

Nobody on this site, including you, has even the slightest idea of what the story will be. Passing judgement on it at this point is arrogant in the extreme.

If that's true, then I wish he'd stick with whatever his original idea was.

I think it'd make this whole canon argument mute as he'd be able to tell a self contained story that'd fit in the rich lore of the original films and add more with whatever it is he brings to the plate. I'm all about adding more interesting stories to an existing one, giving it an in-universe history to look back on.

In the end, whatever happens, happens. It's his film and he's the one getting paid by Fox should this not get cancelled, he doesn't really owe us anything.

And yet, I still hope he doesn't incorporate Ripley into it. I want him to for once break the cycle and give us interesting new faces to meet.

Oh well, it's still not going to stop me from enjoying Alien 3 and Resurrection and just borrow whatever concept I may like in this new film to add to the old while disregarding the fact it has Ripley in it, I'll just pretend it's Hick's cryotube fuelled dream or something, Blonkamp can mess with the canon all he wants, but he can't mess with the power of head canons.  ;D

Right now, the Alien franchise could very well be the best weapon that FOX has against Disney's Star Wars.  Yes, Star Wars has a wider appeal but I can't recall any other Sci-Fi franchise under FOX's command that you can add prequels and sequels to that also has so much mainstream appeal (that also goes back 35 years).

Maybe FOX should try to capitalize on this franchise from multiple ends...just like what Disney is doing with Star Wars with the new sequels and anthology films.

Quote from: Ash 937 on Oct 31, 2015, 01:50:03 AM
Right now, the Alien franchise could very well be the best weapon that FOX has against Disney's Star Wars.  Yes, Star Wars has a wider appeal but I can't recall any other Sci-Fi franchise under FOX's command that you can add prequels and sequels to that also has so much mainstream appeal (that also goes back 35 years).

Maybe FOX should try to capitalize on this franchise from multiple ends...just like what Disney is doing with Star Wars with the new sequels and anthology films.

I couldn't be more agree

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Oct 31, 2015, 03:06:51 AM

Quote from: Ash 937 on Oct 31, 2015, 01:50:03 AM
Right now, the Alien franchise could very well be the best weapon that FOX has against Disney's Star Wars.  Yes, Star Wars has a wider appeal but I can't recall any other Sci-Fi franchise under FOX's command that you can add prequels and sequels to that also has so much mainstream appeal (that also goes back 35 years).

Maybe FOX should try to capitalize on this franchise from multiple ends...just like what Disney is doing with Star Wars with the new sequels and anthology films.

I couldn't be more agree

As do I. Here we have a beloved and seemingly disregarded franchise where the recent movies (spanning back to A:R) were mixed between let downs and just utter crap. The fan-base is strong nonetheless. ALIEN changed films, just as Star Wars did. They are two of the largest scifi franchises in existence, even if one outguns the other in sheer volume, both have their share of devoted fans who want nothing more than to see their respective series shine bright.

@Rakei: You are so worried friend. Every post I read from you seeps dread regarding the timeline. I wouldn't be so concerned about that detail as the story and characters involved. They can "get the timing right" but if the rest of the movie smells, well, let's just say we'll ALL be let down.......again. All the concept art released has this movie pinned as either:
A. Fork in the road    or     B. In between 2 and 3.                                         Either way, it supports A3 or ignores it without destroying it.

The points about Blomkamp wanting to go back to the Giger roots are well-taken, and like I've said before, he's excellent at doing special effects in a manner than isn't hyper-reliant on CGI.  Honestly, the only major complaint that I have is his insistence on using Ripley and Hicks; unfortunately, it's a big one.  I am a strong believer in respecting continuity, even if parts of said continuity are less than stellar.  I personally find many reboots to be disrespectful, and this would be no exception.  Let's make an Alien series for a new generation, but allow that new generation to appreciate all of the old films completely.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Oct 31, 2015, 03:30:10 AM
The points about Blomkamp wanting to go back to the Giger roots are well-taken, and like I've said before, he's excellent at doing special effects in a manner than isn't hyper-reliant on CGI.  Honestly, the only major complaint that I have is his insistence on using Ripley and Hicks; unfortunately, it's a big one.  I am a strong believer in respecting continuity, even if parts of said continuity are less than stellar.  I personally find many reboots to be disrespectful, and this would be no exception.  Let's make an Alien series for a new generation, but allow that new generation to appreciate all of the old films completely.

What would you say to a mid-movie wake up, ala Out of the Shadows? Personally, I find it faulty and disingenuous. I wouldn't be happy if they decided to go that route and say "They all awoke before A3 and had an adventure and went back to sleep."

Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Oct 31, 2015, 03:56:49 AM

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Oct 31, 2015, 03:30:10 AM
The points about Blomkamp wanting to go back to the Giger roots are well-taken, and like I've said before, he's excellent at doing special effects in a manner than isn't hyper-reliant on CGI.  Honestly, the only major complaint that I have is his insistence on using Ripley and Hicks; unfortunately, it's a big one.  I am a strong believer in respecting continuity, even if parts of said continuity are less than stellar.  I personally find many reboots to be disrespectful, and this would be no exception.  Let's make an Alien series for a new generation, but allow that new generation to appreciate all of the old films completely.

What would you say to a mid-movie wake up, ala Out of the Shadows? Personally, I find it faulty and disingenuous. I wouldn't be happy if they decided to go that route and say "They all awoke before A3 and had an adventure and went back to sleep."

I'm not so sure about it, as it really doesn't leave room for much long term development, even if there are sequels.  Also, no matter how triumphant the ending is, the shadow of Alien 3 will linger over everything.

Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Oct 31, 2015, 03:28:46 AM
@Rakei: You are so worried friend. Every post I read from you seeps dread regarding the timeline. I wouldn't be so concerned about that detail as the story and characters involved. They can "get the timing right" but if the rest of the movie smells, well, let's just say we'll ALL be let down.......again. All the concept art released has this movie pinned as either:
A. Fork in the road    or     B. In between 2 and 3.                                         Either way, it supports A3 or ignores it without destroying it.

I wouldn't say worried.. But more like... I want to just enjoy this thing as it's own on a good note. Believe it or not, I would prefer it if Blomkamp's Alien movie straight up ignores Alien 3 and serves as an alternate Alien 3. So far it seems like that's what Blomkamp is trying to do. I don't want it to do what "PREDATORS" did and leave it as something of an ambiguous sequel (you know the whole debate if it's an alternate Predator 2 or a genuine Predator 3).

At this point.. if I had to choose, I would choose option A.. the fork in the road. Unpopular opinion but the fork in the road would allow me a choice as to which sequel I would want. If I like both great, if I prefer Blomkamp's movie that's great, if I prefer Alien 3.. great. I mean.. one way or another.. based on the statements Blomkamp gave.. well.. I'm just not gonna say the obvious.

I just want alternatives, and not feel like I have to take this sequel as a necessary supplement.

I am shocked how indifferent I am to the fact, that the movie is delayed, since Alien is my favourite movie franchise.

It must have something to do with the fact, that it was going to retcon Alien 3, which, for me, is brilliant movie on par with Alien & Aliens.
And even if a movie is set in between Aliens & Alien 3, there's still another problem - Blomkamp. Well, I kinda like D9, but not love it. I've seen it two times, and after my second viewing, which was five years ago I didn't return to it anymore. Elysium had unbelievably stupid script, particularly ending, It was almost as stupid as Skyfall. And Chappie - not that bad, but again, ending killed it for me completely, and I am not really sure if I want that director to have anything to do with Aliens.

Well, in fact I don't.
And I am not interested in seeing movies with Ripley & Hicks - For me, they are DEAD (I consider A:R to be fun piece of fan fiction, and nothing more). And leave it that way.

Pacific Rim 2, friday 13th, Halloween, terminator sequels on hold, and now ``Alien 3 Neill Blomkamp Edition``

While this shitstorm of delays and cancelation happens, to horror and monster movies we are getting 4/5 superhero movies per year, plus more michael bay trashformers. yaaay.... ._.   :-\

But back on topic..

I am way more excited for the prometheus sequel than Blomkamp's stupid retcon fanfic.

For me, alien fans that think the franchise can`t go past the alien itself and f**king ripley are not true fans.

There`s so much potential in that universe, so much to explore and do. And Prometheus just expanded the possibilities even more.

Still... in a way i kinda sad. 2 Aliens movies in the same year? how awesome is that? now we dont even know if the movie is going to happen, but if it do, i hope Neill forget this ``Rihplai nids toh be in it, cawze its dope!`` crap. Seriously! he wants to do a alien movie in the aliens time-line? FINE! AWESOME! but why Ripley? Hicks? it's that f**king hard to create a new character? he sounds like those people that say stupid shit like the terminator franchise is nothing without Arnold and Sarah Connor.

I agree with the people saying he would be better directing a AVP movie. :)

Quote

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

Nobody on this site, including you, has even the slightest idea of what the story will be. Passing judgement on it at this point is arrogant in the extreme.

I think it's fair to say all signs were pointing in that direction. The project has probably been in statis for months and Blomkamp was trying to reignite interest by cracking the nostalgia whip by dropping pulse rifle pictures and more Ripley/Hicks pictures.

Maybe in the end he'll get to do one of the Prometheus sequels.
I mean I'm not holding my breathe for Paradise Lost to be good. I don't think Scott is "back on form", I think with The Martian he just got handed a cohesive script.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 31, 2015, 01:20:31 AM

Quote from: Beatnation on Oct 30, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
"...as much as I love the xeno- and Lt ripley"

Exactly!, he doesn't love the Alien movies, he just want Ripley be AGAIN AND AGAIN the main protagonist instead create a good story, he just want to erase Alien 3 in favor of wet fanfiction just because, I hope Fox get another writer/director who truly respect and love the Alien franchise.

If you had read or watched any interviews with the guy, you would never have written that. The guy loves the films. Has seen the original on a massive screen, in a way the rest of us simply can't afford to. Has been one of the few directors out there to say the series needs to return Freudian Lovecraftian themes to the subtext and Giger's biomechanics.

And you claim he doesn't appreciate the films?

You also forget he had an original story in mind already and it was Weaver who convinced him to modify it, so that Ripley can return.

Quote from: tmjhur on Oct 30, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
Well I for one am glad this pussified nerd fan fic retcon isn't happening.

Nobody on this site, including you, has even the slightest idea of what the story will be. Passing judgement on it at this point is arrogant in the extreme.

No use posting facts or trying to engage in sensible discourse on an internet forum Xenomorphine. You're just pissing into the wind mate.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 31, 2015, 01:41:00 AM
If that's true, then I wish he'd stick with whatever his original idea was.

I'd agree, but put yourself in his position: You can keep pipe-dreaming or know you've got a shot at actually making one of your dream projects and working with one of your childhood heroes. Weaver's involvement and brainstorming seems to have been what it took to get Fox to listen.

This isn't like 'Resurrection', where Whedon got told to force Ripley into his story with a deadline attached. This process seems to be a lot more creatively fluid and natural.

I haven't got a clue whether I'll like the end result or not. None of us have. But I'm giving it a chance, because we know next to nothing about it.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 31, 2015, 11:53:12 AM
No use posting facts or trying to engage in sensible discourse on an internet forum Xenomorphine. You're just pissing into the wind mate.

We have standards to uphold, damn it! :laugh:

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 31, 2015, 04:36:29 PM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Oct 31, 2015, 01:41:00 AM
If that's true, then I wish he'd stick with whatever his original idea was.

I'd agree, but put yourself in his position: You can keep pipe-dreaming or know you've got a shot at actually making one of your dream projects and working with one of your childhood heroes. Weaver's involvement and brainstorming seems to have been what it took to get Fox to listen.

This isn't like 'Resurrection', where Whedon got told to force Ripley into his story with a deadline attached. This process seems to be a lot more creatively fluid and natural.

I haven't got a clue whether I'll like the end result or not. None of us have. But I'm giving it a chance, because we know next to nothing about it.

Weaver must've been very convincing, because there's no way I'd continue that direction. Unless she said "let's continue Ripley 8's story" in which case, it'd make sense since her clone didn't die. And it'd be a great opportunity to explore the world established in Resurrection. Maybe even do a resurgence of Weyland-Yutani as Sea of Sorrows hinted at. There's so many other things to explore.

I'm still curious for Alien 5, I'm just not going to lose any sleep if it got cancelled.

Paradise Lost however... that sounds infinitely more exciting to me because I know it's going to explore new directions. I am curious for the Ripley connection as well, since Ellen was born in 2092 and Prometheus took place mostly in 2093, the connection could be one of her parents or something. This is the kind of thing I want to see, something that keeps me wondering what new things will show up, not a rehash of nostalgia.

I love Aliens and I always want to see Colonial Marines, it's just this messing with the timelines as if forcing me to choose which sequel to follow rather than enjoy them both from the same timeline. Why can't it be like Jurassic World? Fits perfectly with Jurassic Park but starts a new chapter for a new generation, leaving the doors open for them to enjoy the old stuff and link it to the new timeline.

Born of Cold Light says it best, I too believe in respecting continuity and for me, rebooting just feels lazy and is an excuse not to explore the rich lore of a previous universe. At least Shane Black was wise enough to go "hang on, Predator has got so much unexplored potential, why do I need to reboot it?" and is instead working on a sequel as far as we know so far. Blonkamp should reconsider, unless Ellen Ripley shows up in some flashbacks or something, I can't find a way to make sense of her return and link it to the previously established lore.

Eh, I might just enjoy it as a Hollywood fan film and nothing official. If it has some things I like such as new Alien abilities or a new technology, I'll just migrate it to the old continuity and disregard the nonsensical story. I just honestly can't make sense of the concept so far. Like I said, Weaver must've been really convincing during the brain storming because there's just no way this makes sense...

Quote from: acrediblesource on Oct 31, 2015, 12:53:17 AM
The problem is people are too critical of this darn movie. It's like, yes its a cash grab, we know it, it's not going to re-invent the wheel, it's just another take like JC's Aliens on steriods. Nothing wrong with it, it will happen but the marketing machine tells us not to think about it too hard right now. I'm comfortable with that.

I don't think its a cash grab any more than any other movie.  It is probably going to be a more logical continuation of Aliens than Alien 3 was.  It is driven by one man's PASSION for the Aliens film.  That cam first.

I have a good feeling about this.

Blomkamp's Alien Xeno draft was finished recently could mean he's at the point of prep where he cant move forward 'cause Scott has no time because he's very into prepro for the filming of A:Paradise Lost.

I hope thats the reason Blomkamp need to stop.
Maybe he has another film plan he want to write snd still has time to polish characters and story for the alien.Hopefully the project will move forward.
Its very strange Scott talked about the film and he said everything is fine and will be out in 2017, than Blomkamp tweets this ??? Very annoying.

@Guan Thwei
For the continuity:I really like A 3 both versions and i like Res.  But A3 shouldn't need to kill Hicks and Newt .
They could simply leave them on the Sulaco if the facehugger only attacks Ripleys tube .The Sulaco could relase her  tube to prevent fire.
And if Hicks and Newt appear on Fury with Bishop II in the end,Ripley would have a reason to live and the sequel could continue with them and Res never happens .
So the A3script was selfish to kill these characters for no reason.Then Fox desperatedly wanted Ripley back in the fourth..how can they be that stupid?

If Weaver wanted Ripley to die than why she want to play her again? Thats why the franchise is in this impossible situation. ::)

Very good news. This Alien 5 would've been a disaster. Have you ever heard of a good movie that was inspired by a so-and-so-filmmaker's postings on Instagram or Twitter?

Quote from: Scree on Nov 01, 2015, 11:04:52 AM
Very good news. This Alien 5 would've been a disaster. Have you ever heard of a good movie that was inspired by a so-and-so-filmmaker's postings on Instagram or Twitter?

Good thing then that the film wasn't inspired by "a so-and-so-filmaker's postings on Instagram or Twitter".

Quit talking bollocks.

Ok. So now what. We're just going to wait around for A:PL? Does this Alien 5 forum even have a purpose anymore?

It's only delayed at this stage Rabbit. Not cancelled.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 30, 2015, 01:45:05 AM
Alien 5 Delayed "Pending" Alien: Paradise Lost

There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 01, 2015, 02:21:40 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Phew! That's good news, I thought I was committing political suicide there for a second.  :laugh:

Quote from: Danny Harrigan on Nov 01, 2015, 01:29:24 AM
@Guan Thwei
For the continuity:I really like A 3 both versions and i like Res.  But A3 shouldn't need to kill Hicks and Newt .
They could simply leave them on the Sulaco if the facehugger only attacks Ripleys tube .The Sulaco could relase her  tube to prevent fire.
And if Hicks and Newt appear on Fury with Bishop II in the end,Ripley would have a reason to live and the sequel could continue with them and Res never happens .
So the A3script was selfish to kill these characters for no reason.Then Fox desperatedly wanted Ripley back in the fourth..how can they be that stupid?

They weren't killed off for no reason, they were killed off for a very good reason. Let me explain. Alien is explicitly about copulation and birth, the imagery in that film is very sexual and gender reversal is a prominent theme - male rape, male birth, etc. People are raped, things are born. Birth. Aliens is explicitly about motherhood/parenthood. It's rather heavy-handed but the theme is extremely prominent in the film. What was born in Alien is now a child and we're dealing with a different relationship, the next logical stage of the first film's symbolism. Alien3 is explicitly about death. It's the most logical next step. There is a funeral in the film, an autopsy, the soundtrack is full of religious liturgical text, most of the characters are murderers. Ripley kills herself. Death is the prominent theme. If Newt and Hicks weren't killed, there wouldn't be a funeral scene (an outstanding scene, by the way, cross cutting with the Alien's birth), and then there wouldn't be a symbolic recapitulation of the same funeral scene for Ripley's death, which brings the whole film back round and completes its message. Without Hicks and News being dead, Alien3 is nothing.

This is the problem with fandoms, really. Not just Alien, but all of them. People become obsessed with their favourite franchise without fully understanding that a film is not just "a bunch of stuff that happens". There's themes, ideas, symbols floating around and a film has to exist on multiple levels. No you can't just "have Hicks and Newt still be alive" because the whole film falls apart, you lose the powerful imagery and association conjured up by the presence of a "death" theme, and the film simply becomes "a bunch of stuff that happens".

People are so offended by "their favourite characters being dead", by such a superficial event, that they declare Alien3 a disaster, despite the fact that it actually concludes what is basically a near-perfect trilogy. I understand the hate, but I don't sympathise with it. People are idiots, Alien3 is great (Assembly cut especially), and trying to retcon an entire section of canon just because you "don't like that your favourite characters died" is extremely selfish and extremely disrespectful to the thousands of hours, to the dozens of actors, to the hundreds of technicians and set designers who put their hearts and souls into the making of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection. Whether you like it or not, nobody has the right to do that, least of all Neil Blomkamp.

Well spoken, Neon.

That's why I don't like Alien Resurrection: because its theme is "let's go get some more of that Alien money."  :D

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 03:40:22 PM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 01, 2015, 02:21:40 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Phew! That's good news, I thought I was committing political suicide there for a second.  :laugh:

We gotta stick together man!  ;D

Quote from: Neon_Knight on Nov 01, 2015, 03:54:59 PM

Quote from: Danny Harrigan on Nov 01, 2015, 01:29:24 AM
@Guan Thwei
For the continuity:I really like A 3 both versions and i like Res.  But A3 shouldn't need to kill Hicks and Newt .
They could simply leave them on the Sulaco if the facehugger only attacks Ripleys tube .The Sulaco could relase her  tube to prevent fire.
And if Hicks and Newt appear on Fury with Bishop II in the end,Ripley would have a reason to live and the sequel could continue with them and Res never happens .
So the A3script was selfish to kill these characters for no reason.Then Fox desperatedly wanted Ripley back in the fourth..how can they be that stupid?

They weren't killed off for no reason, they were killed off for a very good reason. Let me explain. Alien is explicitly about copulation and birth, the imagery in that film is very sexual and gender reversal is a prominent theme - male rape, male birth, etc. People are raped, things are born. Birth. Aliens is explicitly about motherhood/parenthood. It's rather heavy-handed but the theme is extremely prominent in the film. What was born in Alien is now a child and we're dealing with a different relationship, the next logical stage of the first film's symbolism. Alien3 is explicitly about death. It's the most logical next step. There is a funeral in the film, an autopsy, the soundtrack is full of religious liturgical text, most of the characters are murderers. Ripley kills herself. Death is the prominent theme. If Newt and Hicks weren't killed, there wouldn't be a funeral scene (an outstanding scene, by the way, cross cutting with the Alien's birth), and then there wouldn't be a symbolic recapitulation of the same funeral scene for Ripley's death, which brings the whole film back round and completes its message. Without Hicks and News being dead, Alien3 is nothing.

This is the problem with fandoms, really. Not just Alien, but all of them. People become obsessed with their favourite franchise without fully understanding that a film is not just "a bunch of stuff that happens". There's themes, ideas, symbols floating around and a film has to exist on multiple levels. No you can't just "have Hicks and Newt still be alive" because the whole film falls apart, you lose the powerful imagery and association conjured up by the presence of a "death" theme, and the film simply becomes "a bunch of stuff that happens".

People are so offended by "their favourite characters being dead", by such a superficial event, that they declare Alien3 a disaster, despite the fact that it actually concludes what is basically a near-perfect trilogy. I understand the hate, but I don't sympathise with it. People are idiots, Alien3 is great (Assembly cut especially), and trying to retcon an entire section of canon just because you "don't like that your favourite characters died" is extremely selfish and extremely disrespectful to the thousands of hours, to the dozens of actors, to the hundreds of technicians and set designers who put their hearts and souls into the making of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection. Whether you like it or not, nobody has the right to do that, least of all Neil Blomkamp.

THANK YOU!

You are a saint!

This couldn't have been said any better. You should be Blonpamp's advisor lol.

What scares me is that Ridley had NO idea what he wanted to do until Prometheus failed and he saw the excitement surrounding Blomkamp's Alien concept. Then, he promised to stay away from the whole "Alien" idea! (It was reported here as well, AM I the only one??) Then, he personally torpedoed Neil's movie via his pull with Fox's executives to make another Ridley cash grab $$$$ runaway script (Thanks to Martian..his one hit in many years he took sole credit for).


That doesn't ring in too well for a great script or plot.....clearly, they are being generated very quickly. One does not change direction sooo much and start filming immediately with any sort of solid script in hand. Get ready for "Alien: Director Lost" Plot hole edition.

Still more exciting than "The Real Alien 3: Return of Undead Ripley: Nostalgia Cut" 

I'm just kidding. I couldn't help myself there.  ;D

You have to admit though, Blonkamp himself doesn't have a perfect track record either when it comes to movies. I only saw District 9, so I can't pass judgement on his other movies, yet so many people said they were mediocre films.

I had no problem with Prometheus, but judging by everyone's reactions, Ridley is a hit n' miss kind of director. He either makes a great movie, or he doesn't. But with Blonkamp, has he ever made a film that was as big as Alien or The Martian? I'd like to know. This could've affected Fox's decision since "money talks" as far as they're concerned.

Ridley has always only been as good as his scripts and unfortunately his track record of projects that he has developed has been appalling over the past 8-10 years.
The Martian was semi decent (didn't love it personally) because he was handed a coherent screenplay by a good writer. Much like how he was handed the original Alien.

The fact that he developed Paradise Lost himself does not bode well for the project. That and his reluctance to indulge in the biomechanics of Giger in the first Prometheus - if he carries on taking these regressive aesthetic steps then things will surely turn out poorly.

Hardly surprising, I'll be happy if Blompy's fan-fiction is never made, sure I'd be curious, but this is a nihilistic universe; not happy nuclear families in space with toy pulse rifles.

Quote from: Flexserve on Nov 01, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
What scares me is that Ridley had NO idea what he wanted to do until Prometheus failed and he saw the excitement surrounding Blomkamp's Alien concept. Then, he promised to stay away from the whole "Alien" idea! (It was reported here as well, AM I the only one??) Then, he personally torpedoed Neil's movie via his pull with Fox's executives to make another Ridley cash grab $$$$ runaway script (Thanks to Martian..his one hit in many years he took sole credit for).

Whoooooole lotta assumptions going on here.

Quote from: Flexserve on Nov 01, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
What scares me is that Ridley had NO idea what he wanted to do until Prometheus failed and he saw the excitement surrounding Blomkamp's Alien concept. Then, he promised to stay away from the whole "Alien" idea! (It was reported here as well, AM I the only one??) Then, he personally torpedoed Neil's movie via his pull with Fox's executives to make another Ridley cash grab $$$$ runaway script (Thanks to Martian..his one hit in many years he took sole credit for).

Ridley Scott is the producer for Blomkamp's Alien film. Why would he want to scuttle one of his own projects? Just two weeks ago he was saying that Blomkamp's first screenplay draft for Alien 5 is already "looking pretty good" and that the film will be out in 2017.

Quote from: Ridley Scott"We have Neill Blomkamp's Alien, which will be out in 2017. We just have the first [screenplay] draft in so far but it looks pretty good."

And with regards to the Paradise script:

QuoteThat doesn't ring in too well for a great script or plot.....clearly, they are being generated very quickly. One does not change direction sooo much and start filming immediately with any sort of solid script in hand. Get ready for "Alien: Director Lost" Plot hole edition.

Development on the Paradise Lost script was started around the beginning of 2013 and at last count was already at the 15th draft. Development on Blomkamp's screenplay likely only started around February this year.

Quote from: Neon_Knight on Nov 01, 2015, 03:54:59 PM
People are so offended by "their favourite characters being dead", by such a superficial event, that they declare Alien3 a disaster, despite the fact that it actually concludes what is basically a near-perfect trilogy. I understand the hate, but I don't sympathise with it. People are idiots, Alien3 is great (Assembly cut especially), and trying to retcon an entire section of canon just because you "don't like that your favourite characters died" is extremely selfish and extremely disrespectful to the thousands of hours, to the dozens of actors, to the hundreds of technicians and set designers who put their hearts and souls into the making of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection. Whether you like it or not, nobody has the right to do that, least of all Neil Blomkamp.

Great post.

Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Nov 01, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

I've every confidence that if egg-morphing had been up on the screen, JC would have worked with it.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Nov 01, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

James Cameron didn't have to ignore egg-morphing. Scott himself cut it from theatrical release of Alien.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Nov 01, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

Only a fan might consider a deleted scene as something important (and in some critical cases as part of the canon). Now, ignoring something that is on the screen is other thing  :P

Quote from: NickisSmart on Nov 01, 2015, 08:22:57 PM

Quote from: Neon_Knight on Nov 01, 2015, 03:54:59 PM
People are so offended by "their favourite characters being dead", by such a superficial event, that they declare Alien3 a disaster, despite the fact that it actually concludes what is basically a near-perfect trilogy. I understand the hate, but I don't sympathise with it. People are idiots, Alien3 is great (Assembly cut especially), and trying to retcon an entire section of canon just because you "don't like that your favourite characters died" is extremely selfish and extremely disrespectful to the thousands of hours, to the dozens of actors, to the hundreds of technicians and set designers who put their hearts and souls into the making of Alien3 and Alien Resurrection. Whether you like it or not, nobody has the right to do that, least of all Neil Blomkamp.

Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

Indeed. If Neon_Knight can find an original Alien 3 crew or cast member that actually gives a shit whether Alien 3 gets retconnected or not, I'll happily eat my hat. The "dozens of actors, the hundreds of technicians and set designers" were all professional filmmakers. They completed the job, they got paid, they moved on. The film still exists and will continue to exist even if Fincher himself might have wished otherwise.

Elliot Goldenthal considers Alien3 to be his best score.

Not to mention, a lot of work and effort was put into the Assembly cut, if you've seen it. It's rather radically different to the theatrical cut. A lot of care, and a lot of attention went into that. If that was "just a job", then frankly nowhere near as much effort would have been put into making it. Seriously, watch it.

Your point is moot considering James Cameron considered Alien3 to be "a slap in the face" because they killed off Hicks and Newt. Doesn't sound like James Cameron "did a job, got paid, and moved on", does it? Sounds like he considers his films to be something like his legacy. Sounds like he's proud of his films like they're his children and he wants to protect them, doesn't it? Film makers who consider their work be a case of "complete the job, and move on" are bad film makers. You should spend less time amidst the porn genre - you've betrayed a fairly severe misunderstanding of the nature of the film business. If people just want to make money, trust me, there are far better ways of doing it than getting into film making. Nobody gets into film making to make money, and nobody works in the film business because it's "just a job". It's so unbelievably difficult to get even anywhere as a film maker, nobody makes it into the profession without really wanting it. Film is an art-form whether you like it or not, and people who work on films, generally care an awful lot about it. Whether an audience likes it or not, and whether you personally consider it to be "good" or not is totally irrelevant. Nobody deliberately produces bad work. The very idea that the people who spent their time and creative efforts working on Alien3 would just "not give a shit" about their own work is so unbelievably absurd, I'm shocked that I'm even entertaining it by responding to you. 

Quote from: Neon_Knight on Nov 01, 2015, 10:09:07 PM
Not to mention, a lot of work and effort was put into the Assembly cut, if you've seen it. It's rather radically different to the theatrical cut. A lot of care, and a lot of attention went into that. If that was "just a job", then frankly nowhere near as much effort would have been put into making it. Seriously, watch it.

The "Assembly Cut" is Charles de Lauzirika's cut. Although he had nothing to do with the original film he always had a soft spot for it. So it's essentially a "fan boys" cut of Alien 3. A labour of love indeed.

QuoteYour point is moot considering James Cameron considered Alien3 to be "a slap in the face" because they killed off Hicks and Newt. Doesn't sound like James Cameron "did a job, got paid, and moved on", does it? Sounds like he considers his films to be something like his legacy. Sounds like he's proud of his films like they're his children and he wants to protect them, doesn't it?

James Cameron was the author and director (or auteur rather) of Aliens. It was his baby. He wasn't a director-for-hire or a stage hand that got paid by the hour. I was referring to the deckhands.

QuoteYou should spend less time amidst the porn genre - you've betrayed a fairly severe misunderstanding of the nature of the film business. If people just want to make money, trust me, there are far better ways of doing it than getting into film making. Nobody gets into film making to make money, and nobody works in the film business because it's "just a job". It's so unbelievably difficult to get even anywhere as a film maker, nobody makes it into the profession without really wanting it. Film is an art-form whether you like it or not, and people who work on films, generally care an awful lot about it. Whether an audience likes it or not, and whether you personally consider it to be "good" or not is totally irrelevant.

No, we're actually a pretty jaded bunch in reality.

QuoteNobody deliberately produces bad work. The very idea that the people who spent their time and creative efforts working on Alien3 would just "not give a shit" about their own work is so unbelievably absurd, I'm shocked that I'm even entertaining it by responding to you.

Kid, they got hired to do a job and they did it to the best of their ability. That's what professionals do. The notion that everyone who worked on Alien 3 twenty-three-years ago is suddenly going to go all emo because it's no longer going to be considered "canon" is completely absurd.

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 03:40:22 PM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 01, 2015, 02:21:40 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Phew! That's good news, I thought I was committing political suicide there for a second.  :laugh:

Paradise lost is infinitely more intriguing. I think people need to understand that what NB was promising to deliver was "the sequel to a 1986 movie that we were all expecting in a 1992 movie". You don't need to know anything about the movie to know what we should be expecting to get and you know what; it simply too damn late for it.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 01, 2015, 10:58:27 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 03:40:22 PM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 01, 2015, 02:21:40 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Phew! That's good news, I thought I was committing political suicide there for a second.  :laugh:

Paradise lost is infinitely more intriguing. I think people need to understand that what NB was promising to deliver was "the sequel to a 1986 movie that we were all expecting in a 1992 movie". You don't need to know anything about the movie to know what we should be expecting to get and you know what; it simply too damn late for it.

Ok but what if NB's movie were to dovetail into what Ridley was setting up in Prometheus?  Neill's Aliens sounds awesome and I hope it gets made.

Just flying off in another direction for a second here:

I watched half of Elysium a few days ago (didn't really feel compelled to finish it), and I have to say, Blomkamp's predilection for handheld shots is very un-Alien/Aliens-like. Almost every damn shot in that movie was handheld - which is an effective device, but was something that Scott and Cameron used only very carefully. The handheld shots worked fine for Elysium I suppose, and they were absolutely essential for District 9. But a presentation like that certainly wouldn't feel like a 'spiritual successor' to the first two Alien films.

Of course there's no guarantee he'd shoot A5 that way, but it sure seems to be his 'comfort zone'. Or maybe not anymore; anybody seen Chappie?

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 01, 2015, 11:01:05 PM

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 01, 2015, 10:58:27 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 03:40:22 PM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 01, 2015, 02:21:40 PM

Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 01, 2015, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

I love the Forbes! As usual with Forbes' articles; I tend to agree with the sentiments of the writer. And I know some of you will hate me for this, but I look forward to Paradise Lost.

I am definitely more excited for Paradise Lost. So don't worry about being hated by yourself, I'll join you.  :laugh:

Phew! That's good news, I thought I was committing political suicide there for a second.  :laugh:

Paradise lost is infinitely more intriguing. I think people need to understand that what NB was promising to deliver was "the sequel to a 1986 movie that we were all expecting in a 1992 movie". You don't need to know anything about the movie to know what we should be expecting to get and you know what; it simply too damn late for it.

Ok but what if NB's movie were to dovetail into what Ridley was setting up in Prometheus?  Neill's Aliens sounds awesome and I hope it gets made.

Well I kind of figured that both movies were heading for the same destination; the alien home world. I mean lets be honest, that's where the majority of us want to go I presume. Of course another thing that most of us desire is another "Aliens" movie. However from my perspective that sequel is lost in time. He should just focus on making his own Aliens movie. That being said I didn't care much for District 9, I like Elysium much more even though I didn't like the antagonist in the film (but of course that was the idea) and Chappie was an utterly horrible watch for me. The dude should step into the waters via an AVP movie. If that works then he should hit the Aliens movie.

No reason to play chicken with Blomkamp on this film.  Cameron, Fincher, and Jeunet had their chance.  Let Blomkamp have his.  His film could really be awesome.  There wasn't a single director that ever came to the series with his level of enthusiasm.

Alien 3 -Assembly Cut- is a masterpiece, glad Fox do something good for once and don't let Blomhack make his fanfic wet dream retconning this amazing movie.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 02, 2015, 02:43:24 AM
No reason to play chicken with Blomkamp on this film.  Cameron, Fincher, and Jeunet had their chance.  Let Blomkamp have his.  His film could really be awesome.  There wasn't a single director that ever came to the series with his level of enthusiasm.

The truth is, all the movies are good movies. Yea even Jeunets. I have no reservations in NB's skill and enthusiasm in creating an excellent Aliens movie, but I don't think that is what's need right now with APL in the works. Which is why I'm thinking an AVP movie would be better.

I'm starting to feel more confident about NB creating an AvP film instead, considering his artistic style from his other films. Have colonial marines in it so you can use your fancy pulse rifle on screen too.

Perhaps they are ultimately waiting on completing this film until Alien PL comes out, to judge it based on popular response.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Nov 01, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Whatever. If Neil makes a film that ignores Alien 3, the film still exists. He can make whatever film he wants. He has to right to ignore Alien 3 just as James Cameron had the right to ignore egg-morphing.

Agreed. There will always be a balance between using the source material exactly and taking creative liberties.

Everyone is saying that Blomkamp should do an AVP.. Well... as interesting as it might be, Blomkamp thinks that the concept of Alien and Predator sharing the same celluloid and even universe is the biggest mistake. Personally.. I disagree with him, I disagree with Blomkamp on many things, especially Alien 3 and Resurrection, and even the AVPs.. There was a time after seeing D9, that I wanted to see him do an AVP but now? Well.. the man said it himself, he's not interested in doing it.

Something is being left out. People are praising Blomkamp's forward-ness because he posted this on Twitter, but TO ME, it reads like diplomacy at best. It's because he has been forthcoming that I think what he tweeted actually comes across as less-than-the-whole-story. It's too general.
To say A5 is 'ON-HOLD for PROMETHEUS' is a deliberately vague statement, and I'm sure his hands are tied but...
The troubling part of that is either way you look at it, it doesn't really make sense. Is he waiting for SCOTT to free up time to produce?  At least from a Production standpoint, SCOTT would only be too distracted to PRODUCE this, during the actual shoot of PARADISE LOST. So once the shoot wrapped he could easily oversee Production for this, unless the purchase of soundstages is the issue here. So, if that's the case, and SCOTT is just waiting for that to be done, because thee is just no way to obtain the space or other logistics, now, a 'HOLD' makes sense (but this likely will irritate Blomkamp). PARADISE LOST doesnt start shooting until January...and they will wrap on the shoot by the end of May, at the latest. If they are waiting for the shoot of PARADISE LOST to wrap to begin PRE-PRODUCTION on ALIEN 5, BLOMKAMP simply does not really have time to work on something else without pushing ALIEN 5 back further and openly risking that it won't happen. And he does specifically say he intends to work on other things... Given what he has said about his reasons for hesitating to work on FRANCHISE films, this could be his way of saying to FOX," I don't want to wait so long to begin working, FOX." But that's bad, because if he picks up something else now, there is now way A5 will go into prep for a while. Which brings me to this:
The only other possibility, could be that SCOTT and FOX wants to see where this is going, when it concerns the franchises popularity,...  Which means bad things for BLOMKAMP because, lets say PARADISE LOST does excellent in theatres, why make A5 at all then? If people are eager for PROMETHEUS 3, why not just move ahead with that? If PARADISE LOST does badly in theatres, that could go either way. And if it goes "HEY! Remember that A5 thing? This franchise is sinking, lets get it going now!"
To me, this all seems like a push/pull thing. Blomkamp's statement does not read like any contracts have been signed and almost seems like his A5 project was used to build publicity for both his last film and now PARADISE LOST... It will be a shame to see it go.
As much as I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THE IDEA OF RETCON-ING ALIEN 3, I think the failure to wrap up Ripley's story is a crushing blow to what, as of now, is the best Sci-Fi franchise of all time, IMHO. If they can do that somehow, it would just tie it all together nicely.

Sigourney Weaver is getting older now.  This may be the last chance to gest her into an Alien film.  I hope we gest the Alien 3 retcon full steam ahead.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 02, 2015, 04:42:58 AM
Sigourney Weaver is getting older now.  This may be the last chance to gest her into an Alien film.  I hope we gest the Alien 3 retcon full steam ahead.

It's only delayed. Not halted. I'm sure we'll get the film..

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Oct 30, 2015, 03:05:03 PMHuda why are you disparaging my opinions?  I don't disparage yours.  They're just opinions.

I wasn't disparaging your opinion. You want a retcon, great. That's your preference.

But acting like it's the only possible way the series can progress is just silly. ACM followed that logic, with it's ridiculous Hicks-isn't-dead retcon, and was universally ridiculed. Isolation, on the other hand, didn't screw about with daft retcons and tried to do something new with it's own story, and was praised pretty much across the board.

So saying a retcon is the only way forward has already been disproven right there.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 02, 2015, 06:35:05 AM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 02, 2015, 04:42:58 AM
Sigourney Weaver is getting older now.  This may be the last chance to gest her into an Alien film.  I hope we gest the Alien 3 retcon full steam ahead.

It's only delayed. Not halted. I'm sure we'll get the film..

Hey if we're going to crash this boat we might as well crash it full steam into a planet just like Ripley did in A|R.

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 01, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
There's a very good article in Forbes that analyzes this turn of events: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/10/30/why-prometheus-2-over-alien-5-is-the-right-choice/)

To sum it up, the author correctly argues that Prometheus was a worldwide blockbuster, while the Alien franchise hasn't had a hit since the 80's.  He goes on to saying that Ridley Scott is coming off of The Martian ($400 million worldwide and looks to win an Oscar for Best Picture) while Neill Blomkamp has had two disappointing offerings in the six years since District 9. These are the reasons why fox would  pursue a Prometheus sequel over an Alien one.

There is absolutely no denying that Prometheus was a commercial success. There's also no denying that Ridley Scott is coming in hot off of a commercial and critical sucess in The Martian. However, don't forget that the Prometheus sequel is actually now an Alien film, one of those no blockbuster named films. At the end of the day, Paradise Lost is ready to go. We've known it would be next for a little while.

---

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 01, 2015, 08:10:23 PM

Quote from: Flexserve on Nov 01, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
What scares me is that Ridley had NO idea what he wanted to do until Prometheus failed and he saw the excitement surrounding Blomkamp's Alien concept. Then, he promised to stay away from the whole "Alien" idea! (It was reported here as well, AM I the only one??) Then, he personally torpedoed Neil's movie via his pull with Fox's executives to make another Ridley cash grab $$$$ runaway script (Thanks to Martian..his one hit in many years he took sole credit for).

Ridley Scott is the producer for Blomkamp's Alien film. Why would he want to scuttle one of his own projects? Just two weeks ago he was saying that Blomkamp's first screenplay draft for Alien 5 is already "looking pretty good" and that the film will be out in 2017.

I'm personally sick of hearing this. I seriously doubt there's any sort of personal vengeance going on against Blomkamp's project. I'm quite sure it's a case of resources and business. Paradise Lost is ready to go go - it's that simple. Alien 3.2 isn't. They've only just handed in the first draft.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 02, 2015, 04:42:58 AM
Sigourney Weaver is getting older now.  This may be the last chance to gest her into an Alien film.  I hope we gest the Alien 3 retcon full steam ahead.

She was on a comedy drama, here in the UK, just the other day: 'Doc Martin'. I was surprised to see her on a British TV show!

Obviously, doesn't look as young as she did in 'Aliens', but she really doesn't look her age, at all (and UK TV doesn't have nearly the same level of budget or talent for make-up and lighting as a big budget Hollywood film production would). I don't think she'll have any problems.

Dudes it doesn't take youth and big muscles to squeeze the trigger of a M41A pulse rifle. Remember, feel the weight! Weaver can definitely still kick some ass and look good while doing it.

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 02, 2015, 03:48:41 AM
Something is being left out. People are praising Blomkamp's forward-ness because he posted this on Twitter, but TO ME, it reads like diplomacy at best. It's because he has been forthcoming that I think what he tweeted actually comes across as less-than-the-whole-story. It's too general.
To say A5 is 'ON-HOLD for PROMETHEUS' is a deliberately vague statement, and I'm sure his hands are tied but...
The troubling part of that is either way you look at it, it doesn't really make sense. Is he waiting for SCOTT to free up time to produce?  At least from a Production standpoint, SCOTT would only be too distracted to PRODUCE this, during the actual shoot of PARADISE LOST. So once the shoot wrapped he could easily oversee Production for this, unless the purchase of soundstages is the issue here. So, if that's the case, and SCOTT is just waiting for that to be done, because thee is just no way to obtain the space or other logistics, now, a 'HOLD' makes sense (but this likely will irritate Blomkamp). PARADISE LOST doesnt start shooting until January...and they will wrap on the shoot by the end of May, at the latest. If they are waiting for the shoot of PARADISE LOST to wrap to begin PRE-PRODUCTION on ALIEN 5, BLOMKAMP simply does not really have time to work on something else without pushing ALIEN 5 back further and openly risking that it won't happen. And he does specifically say he intends to work on other things... Given what he has said about his reasons for hesitating to work on FRANCHISE films, this could be his way of saying to FOX," I don't want to wait so long to begin working, FOX." But that's bad, because if he picks up something else now, there is now way A5 will go into prep for a while. Which brings me to this:
The only other possibility, could be that SCOTT and FOX wants to see where this is going, when it concerns the franchises popularity,...  Which means bad things for BLOMKAMP because, lets say PARADISE LOST does excellent in theatres, why make A5 at all then? If people are eager for PROMETHEUS 3, why not just move ahead with that? If PARADISE LOST does badly in theatres, that could go either way. And if it goes "HEY! Remember that A5 thing? This franchise is sinking, lets get it going now!"
To me, this all seems like a push/pull thing. Blomkamp's statement does not read like any contracts have been signed and almost seems like his A5 project was used to build publicity for both his last film and now PARADISE LOST... It will be a shame to see it go.
As much as I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THE IDEA OF RETCON-ING ALIEN 3, I think the failure to wrap up Ripley's story is a crushing blow to what, as of now, is the best Sci-Fi franchise of all time, IMHO. If they can do that somehow, it would just tie it all together nicely.

Some astute reasoning there CainsSon and I mostly agree with your deductions.

Though I'm pretty sure Blomkamp would have signed some kind of contract with Fox before putting in 10 months of development work. He got burned with the Halo fiasco and would have been very cautious embarking on a new venture with the very same company again. But it certainly doesn't look like any other contracts were signed with any cast or crew. Biehn at least confirmed this with regards to his involvement. Still, I very much doubt this was intentionally all just a big publicity stunt for Chappie and Paradise Lost.

In retrospect, it looks to me like he initially made his pitch to Fox back at the end of 2014. Fox was likely hemming-and-hawing over whether to go forward with it and Blomkamp possibly got impatient and decided to post some of the pitch art on his instagram account in order to provoke a media response. He got the reaction that he was seeking and less than 48 days later the project was officially greenlit.

It could very well be that he's playing the media game again in order to fast-track the production. That recent Pulse Rifle pic made headlines on several mainstream media sites. But as the Corporal mentioned, it's very likely a case of resources and scheduling that's creating the hold-up on Fox's side. Paradise Lost had a very long development lead over Blomkamp's film. It makes sense to do it first and put Alien 5 on hold for a little while.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 02, 2015, 01:05:18 PM

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 02, 2015, 03:48:41 AM
Something is being left out. People are praising Blomkamp's forward-ness because he posted this on Twitter, but TO ME, it reads like diplomacy at best. It's because he has been forthcoming that I think what he tweeted actually comes across as less-than-the-whole-story. It's too general.
To say A5 is 'ON-HOLD for PROMETHEUS' is a deliberately vague statement, and I'm sure his hands are tied but...
The troubling part of that is either way you look at it, it doesn't really make sense. Is he waiting for SCOTT to free up time to produce?  At least from a Production standpoint, SCOTT would only be too distracted to PRODUCE this, during the actual shoot of PARADISE LOST. So once the shoot wrapped he could easily oversee Production for this, unless the purchase of soundstages is the issue here. So, if that's the case, and SCOTT is just waiting for that to be done, because thee is just no way to obtain the space or other logistics, now, a 'HOLD' makes sense (but this likely will irritate Blomkamp). PARADISE LOST doesn't start shooting until January...and they will wrap on the shoot by the end of May, at the latest. If they are waiting for the shoot of PARADISE LOST to wrap to begin PRE-PRODUCTION on ALIEN 5, BLOMKAMP simply does not really have time to work on something else without pushing ALIEN 5 back further and openly risking that it won't happen. And he does specifically say he intends to work on other things... Given what he has said about his reasons for hesitating to work on FRANCHISE films, this could be his way of saying to FOX," I don't want to wait so long to begin working, FOX." But that's bad, because if he picks up something else now, there is now way A5 will go into prep for a while. Which brings me to this:
The only other possibility, could be that SCOTT and FOX wants to see where this is going, when it concerns the franchises popularity,...  Which means bad things for BLOMKAMP because, lets say PARADISE LOST does excellent in theatres, why make A5 at all then? If people are eager for PROMETHEUS 3, why not just move ahead with that? If PARADISE LOST does badly in theatres, that could go either way. And if it goes "HEY! Remember that A5 thing? This franchise is sinking, lets get it going now!"
To me, this all seems like a push/pull thing. Blomkamp's statement does not read like any contracts have been signed and almost seems like his A5 project was used to build publicity for both his last film and now PARADISE LOST... It will be a shame to see it go.
As much as I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THE IDEA OF RETCON-ING ALIEN 3, I think the failure to wrap up Ripley's story is a crushing blow to what, as of now, is the best Sci-Fi franchise of all time, IMHO. If they can do that somehow, it would just tie it all together nicely.

Some astute reasoning there CainsSon and I mostly agree with your deductions.

Though I'm pretty sure Blomkamp would have signed some kind of contract with Fox before putting in 10 months of development work. He got burned with the Halo fiasco and would have been very cautious embarking on a new venture with the very same company again. But it certainly doesn't look like any other contracts were signed with any cast or crew. Biehn at least confirmed this with regards to his involvement. Still, I very much doubt this was intentionally all just a big publicity stunt for Chappie and Paradise Lost.

In retrospect, it looks to me like he initially made his pitch to Fox back at the end of 2014. Fox was likely hemming-and-hawing over whether to go forward with it and Blomkamp possibly got impatient and decided to post some of the pitch art on his instagram account in order to provoke a media response. He got the reaction that he was seeking and less than 48 days later the project was officially greenlit.

It could very well be that he's playing the media game again in order to fast-track the production. That recent Pulse Rifle pic made headlines on several mainstream media sites. But as the Corporal mentioned, it's very likely a case of resources and scheduling that's creating the hold-up on Fox's side. Paradise Lost had a very long development lead over Blomkamp's film. It makes sense to do it first and put Alien 5 on hold for a little while.

Alot of what I wrote above was kinda stream of consciousness...
Of course, I agree... there must have been some Prep contracts and script payments and etc. But the details of that is confusing, no? I mean, based on what he wrote on twitter, anyway.

After reading someone else's replies, to someone else, I think something else. Given the success of THE MARTIAN, and the fact that Ridley Scott's name produced TWO successful ALIEN films already, AAAAND considering that BLOMKAMP's last film did not perform too well, FOX/SCOTT (and maybe even Sigourney Weaver) may not want to move forward without 100% of Ridley Scott's attention. I think that would be a good idea. If FOX is basically saying to BLOMKAMP, "Look, you need to understand that the ALIEN franchise is now entirely RIDLEY SCOTT'S show, and we want him involved as much as possible, in your ALIEN 5 team, so you have to back off until he is ready and able to focus on this." Maybe that's an affront to BLOMKAMP'S ego, and he thinks, "Well... I could be doing something else! What kinda time frame are we talking about?" To which FOX would logically think "Again, RIDLEY SCOTT is more reliable when it concerns ALIEN. Let's not push this issue with him."
So the overall idea being, that they want RIDLEY SCOTT to produce this, similar the way Spielberg produced Gremlins, The Goonies, and Poltergeist... Where those films and now ALIEN 5 are really shaped and guided by the producer. Something like that makes sense to me and I think, if this is the case, its a smart move. For all the woes, which fan-reactions to PROMETHEUS extracted, no one could deny that it felt as grand and elaborate as the first 3 films... When it comes to creating other worlds, SCOTT is key.

good! neil is a mediocre director and also, I didn't like them ignoring A3.

I wish they had the balls to give it to Fincher, with FULL artistic control.

Or Nolan.

Or Paul Thomas anderson.

Or Soderbergh.

Or Mann.

Or Ang Lee.

Or Gunn.

Or...

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 02, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
good! neil is a mediocre director and also, I didn't like them ignoring A3.

I wish they had the balls to give it to Fincher, with FULL artistic control.

Or Nolan.

Or Paul Thomas anderson.

Or Soderbergh.

Or Mann.

Or Ang Lee.

Or Gunn.

Or...

Guillermo del Toro!   :P

Seriously, the guy has some really good practical effects works such as in Hellboy and in the recent TV show, The Strain. I think he can do a good Alien film.

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 02, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Or Ang Lee.

There is absolutely no way he'd make a good Alien movie. >:(

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 02, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
Alot of what I wrote above was kinda stream of consciousness...
Of course, I agree... there must have been some Prep contracts and script payments and etc. But the details of that is confusing, no? I mean, based on what he wrote on twitter, anyway.

After reading someone else's replies, to someone else, I think something else. Given the success of THE MARTIAN, and the fact that Ridley Scott's name produced TWO successful ALIEN films already, AAAAND considering that BLOMKAMP's last film did not perform too well, FOX/SCOTT (and maybe even Sigourney Weaver) may not want to move forward without 100% of Ridley Scott's attention. I think that would be a good idea. If FOX is basically saying to BLOMKAMP, "Look, you need to understand that the ALIEN franchise is now entirely RIDLEY SCOTT'S show, and we want him involved as much as possible, in your ALIEN 5 team, so you have to back off until he is ready and able to focus on this." Maybe that's an affront to BLOMKAMP'S ego, and he thinks, "Well... I could be doing something else! What kinda time frame are we talking about?" To which FOX would logically think "Again, RIDLEY SCOTT is more reliable when it concerns ALIEN. Let's not push this issue with him."
So the overall idea being, that they want RIDLEY SCOTT to produce this, similar the way Spielberg produced Gremlins, The Goonies, and Poltergeist... Where those films and now ALIEN 5 are really shaped and guided by the producer. Something like that makes sense to me and I think, if this is the case, its a smart move. For all the woes, which fan-reactions to PROMETHEUS extracted, no one could deny that it felt as grand and elaborate as the first 3 films... When it comes to creating other worlds, SCOTT is key.

The details are rather vague, but perhaps intentionally so? It's certainly causing a lot of confusion, some are blaming Scott, some are blaming Fox while some people are assuming the film is permanently canned etc. At the very least it's definitely generating a lot of debate about the film.

Getting Scott to produce was certainly a smart move from Fox. No doubt about that. It's actually a very similar strategy to how Sony marketed District 9 whereby they splashed Peter Jackson's name all over the marketing even though he was the producer, not director. The film even started off with the words "Peter Jackson Presents". In fact, Jackson's name was so ubiquitous that people leaving the cinema were saying things like "Wow! Peter Jackson has done it again!"

Now, I don't think Blomkamp really minded that. He doesn't really come across as someone with ego issues. Jackson is also pretty laid-back and knew when to back off and allow Blomkamp to do his own thing.

Scott is a bit different though, at least in his capacity as a director. He likes to micromanage everything, he knows exactly what he wants and he always gets what he wants. He once joked that he preferred working with British crews as they would never question his ideas or motives. They would simply say "yes guv'nor" and get him what he wanted. But this could become an issue if he gets too actively involved with Blomkamp's film especially if it becomes a producer driven film. You'd effectively end up with a "two captains, one ship" situation. Blomkamp being the junior and less experienced of the two would be under studio pressure to yield to Scott's suggestions, ideas and vision. Not an enviable position for an auteur to find himself in.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 02, 2015, 10:08:29 PM

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 02, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
Alot of what I wrote above was kinda stream of consciousness...
Of course, I agree... there must have been some Prep contracts and script payments and etc. But the details of that is confusing, no? I mean, based on what he wrote on twitter, anyway.

After reading someone else's replies, to someone else, I think something else. Given the success of THE MARTIAN, and the fact that Ridley Scott's name produced TWO successful ALIEN films already, AAAAND considering that BLOMKAMP's last film did not perform too well, FOX/SCOTT (and maybe even Sigourney Weaver) may not want to move forward without 100% of Ridley Scott's attention. I think that would be a good idea. If FOX is basically saying to BLOMKAMP, "Look, you need to understand that the ALIEN franchise is now entirely RIDLEY SCOTT'S show, and we want him involved as much as possible, in your ALIEN 5 team, so you have to back off until he is ready and able to focus on this." Maybe that's an affront to BLOMKAMP'S ego, and he thinks, "Well... I could be doing something else! What kinda time frame are we talking about?" To which FOX would logically think "Again, RIDLEY SCOTT is more reliable when it concerns ALIEN. Let's not push this issue with him."
So the overall idea being, that they want RIDLEY SCOTT to produce this, similar the way Spielberg produced Gremlins, The Goonies, and Poltergeist... Where those films and now ALIEN 5 are really shaped and guided by the producer. Something like that makes sense to me and I think, if this is the case, its a smart move. For all the woes, which fan-reactions to PROMETHEUS extracted, no one could deny that it felt as grand and elaborate as the first 3 films... When it comes to creating other worlds, SCOTT is key.

The details are rather vague, but perhaps intentionally so? It's certainly causing a lot of confusion, some are blaming Scott, some are blaming Fox while some people are assuming the film is permanently canned etc. At the very least it's definitely generating a lot of debate about the film.

Getting Scott to produce was certainly a smart move from Fox. No doubt about that. It's actually a very similar strategy to how Sony marketed District 9 whereby they splashed Peter Jackson's name all over the marketing even though he was the producer, not director. The film even started off with the words "Peter Jackson Presents". In fact, Jackson's name was so ubiquitous that people leaving the cinema were saying things like "Wow! Peter Jackson has done it again!"

Now, I don't think Blomkamp really minded that. He doesn't really come across as someone with ego issues. Jackson is also pretty laid-back and knew when to back off and allow Blomkamp to do his own thing.

Scott is a bit different though, at least in his capacity as a director. He likes to micromanage everything, he knows exactly what he wants and he always gets what he wants. He once joked that he preferred working with British crews as they would never question his ideas or motives. They would simply say "yes guv'nor" and get him what he wanted. But this could become an issue if he gets too actively involved with Blomkamp's film especially if it becomes a producer driven film. You'd effectively end up with a "two captains, one ship" situation. Blomkamp being the junior and less experienced of the two would be under studio pressure to yield to Scott's suggestions, ideas and vision. Not an enviable position for an auteur to find himself in.

If it did become a two captains, one ship thing, we could have the production on Alien 3 all over again with Giler and Hill getting in and going behind Fincher's back and then changing everything every five minutes

Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 01, 2015, 08:08:44 PM

Quote from: Flexserve on Nov 01, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
What scares me is that Ridley had NO idea what he wanted to do until Prometheus failed and he saw the excitement surrounding Blomkamp's Alien concept. Then, he promised to stay away from the whole "Alien" idea! (It was reported here as well, AM I the only one??) Then, he personally torpedoed Neil's movie via his pull with Fox's executives to make another Ridley cash grab $$$$ runaway script (Thanks to Martian..his one hit in many years he took sole credit for).

Whoooooole lotta assumptions going on here.

Indeed, especially considering the Prometheus 2 script was completed before Blomkamp's movie was even announced.

Moreover, Ridley Scott said he likes Blomkamp's script.  Also, he has agreed to produce Blomkamp's film.  And Blomkamp was able to modify his script to accommodate minor changes required to make it work with Scott's film.

Truth is nobody knows the status of the film other than what is being cryptically posted by Blomkamp et al.

It does make sense that the film would be delayed to not collide with the A:PL, but it could just as easily be derailed permanently.  There's no way of knowing right now.

I honestly hope Blomkamp's film gets made though.  I think he is doing what needs to be done with the film franchise though the bar is set really high and the possibility of failure is really great.

It's not getting derailed permanently. I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

If Fox, for whatever reason, didn't want it and didn't have faith in it to make profit, they would never have green-lit the project. They have and it's now clearly at the stage where actual props have gone past the concept phase and into actual production.

It's happening and the only question is when.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
It's happening and the only question is when.

I'd wager 2018 or 2019.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
It's not getting derailed permanently. I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

If Fox, for whatever reason, didn't want it and didn't have faith in it to make profit, they would never have green-lit the project. They have and it's now clearly at the stage where actual props have gone past the concept phase and into actual production.

It's happening and the only question is when.

You're right.  It's all speculation.  I'm with you on this subject.  It's happening!  ..somewhat later..

It's just hyperbole. The majority of reports I have seen all report its been cancelled and etc, rather than what is actually said.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AMIt's not getting derailed permanently. I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

While I completely agree, there's also a chance the film could slip into development hell. It wouldn't be the first time a new sequel to a series has languished in limbo for years. Look at Beverly Hills Cop 4.

Maybe Scott is being very literal with the title of his next movie. There will never be an Alien 5 as long as he lives! Alien: Paradise Lost would be right.  :laugh:

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 04, 2015, 09:17:16 AM
Maybe Scott is being very literal with the title of his next movie. There will never be an Alien 5 as long as he lives! Alien: Paradise Lost would be right.  :laugh:

He'll make sure that "Paradise" is "Lost" to some people.  :laugh:

Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Nov 03, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
If it did become a two captains, one ship thing, we could have the production on Alien 3 all over again with Giler and Hill getting in and going behind Fincher's back and then changing everything every five minutes

Exactly, it could become an Alien 3 production hell redux. So I wonder if Blomkamp is trying to fast-track the film with the intention of shooting it while Scott still has his hands full with Paradise Lost in order to pre-empt this? This could prove equally disastrous if he were to enter production with a half-baked script.

This is all just wild speculation, mind you.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
It's not getting derailed permanently. I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

"On Hold" has kind of become Hollywood speak for development hell or a nice way of saying it's canceled. While it's not really true (plenty of films still get made after being put on hold for years) many people just automatically assume it's the case.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
They have and it's now clearly at the stage where actual props have gone past the concept phase and into actual production.

There's no indication that any props have been built unless WETA Workshop or ADI are keeping an extremely tight lid on things. That pulse rifle was probably from Blomkamp's personal collection, something he was just tinkering with. You wouldn't be mass producing props anyway unless there is already a date set for filming. And then you'd typically start building the sets and props around three months (sometimes longer depending on the project) out.

Though it's always possible some prototypes have been built even though the first draft of the script has only recently been handed-in. But generally there's no use building stuff that might get dropped later on after re-writes plus we don't even know if a budget has been allocated yet. At the end of the day there simply is not enough information regarding this film that has been made public yet. All we really have are some cryptic tweets and pictures from Blomkamp who's seemingly engaged with some kind of political maneuvering.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 04, 2015, 01:16:29 PMThis could prove equally disastrous if he were to enter production with a half-baked script.

Retcon ALIEN 3 and bring back Ripley and Hicks.  There's your half-baked script right there.  That has to change first.

If Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn are going to be in this movie, it's got to happen fast.  They aren't getting any younger.  In which case, if the movie is fast tracked, then it highly risks raising all the issues that a Project rushed through development brings with it.   

If the movie takes its time, then Ripley and Hicks are going to be Senior Citizens in space with flamethrowers and pulse rifles.  In which case Blomkamp's movie will just be embarrassing.

The real problem here is Fox has missed the boat.  Blomkamp's proposal would have been great, back in 1988.  Unfortunately, that ship sailed over a quarter of a Century ago.  This desperate attempt on Blomkamp's part to make up for lost ground is folly.  Fox and Scott have become aware of that.

Honestly, I don't think that most really fans care about who is holding the pulse rifles and smartguns.  Most fans want to see more Colonial Marine action in this series.  It doesn't have to be Ripley and Hicks all the time, y'know.  It could easily be a fresh cast.  Blomkamp's initial proposal is so hung up on nostalgia it forgets how much more this series has to offer and risks strangulating it to death with love for what's preceded. 

There's no reason to retcon anything.  Who doesn't want another movie featuring the USCM confronting Xenos once again?  I'm all for it.  it could easily parallel the events of 'ALIEN 3' and everyone would be happy.  Wow!  What a radical idea.

But this fan service bullshit that Blomkamp is attempting to strap us down with is no different than the ludicrous nonsense of Hicks returning in 'A:CM'; and frankly, I'd be happy to see it die.   

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 04, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 04, 2015, 01:16:29 PMThis could prove equally disastrous if he were to enter production with a half-baked script.

Retcon ALIEN 3 and bring back Ripley and Hicks.  There's your half-baked script right there.  That has to change first.

If Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn are going to be in this movie, it's got to happen fast.  They aren't getting any younger.  In which case, if the movie is fast tracked, then it highly risks raising all the issues that a Project rushed through development brings with it.   

If the movie takes its time, then Ripley and Hicks are going to be Senior Citizens in space with flamethrowers and pulse rifles.  In which case Blomkamp's movie will just be embarrassing.

The real problem here is Fox has missed the boat.  Blomkamp's proposal would have been great, back in 1988.  Unfortunately, that ship sailed over a quarter of a Century ago.  This desperate attempt on Blomkamp's part to make up for lost ground is folly.  Fox and Scott have become aware of that.

Honestly, I don't think that most really fans care about who is holding the pulse rifles and smartguns.  Most fans want to see more Colonial Marine action in this series.  It doesn't have to be Ripley and Hicks all the time, y'know.  It could easily be a fresh cast.  Blomkamp's initial proposal is so hung up on nostalgia it forgets how much more this series has to offer and risks strangulating it to death with love for what's preceded. 

There's no reason to retcon anything.  Who doesn't want another movie featuring the USCM confronting Xenos once again?  I'm all for it.  it could easily parallel the events of 'ALIEN 3' and everyone would be happy.  Wow!  What a radical idea.

But this fan service bullshit that Blomkamp is attempting to strap us down with is no different than the ludicrous nonsense of Hicks returning in 'A:CM'; and frankly, I'd be happy to see it die.   

-Windebieste.

^

This, I couldn't have said it any better!

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 02, 2015, 09:51:29 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 02, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
good! neil is a mediocre director and also, I didn't like them ignoring A3.

I wish they had the balls to give it to Fincher, with FULL artistic control.

Or Nolan.

Or Paul Thomas anderson.

Or Soderbergh.

Or Mann.

Or Ang Lee.

Or Gunn.

Or...

Guillermo del Toro!   :P

Seriously, the guy has some really good practical effects works such as in Hellboy and in the recent TV show, The Strain. I think he can do a good Alien film.

I was really disapointed with Pacific Rim. Script , dialogues, actors etc. Mediocre.

---

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 02, 2015, 09:52:27 PM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 02, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Or Ang Lee.

There is absolutely no way he'd make a good Alien movie. >:(

I may be the only person that loves his Hulk.

---

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

maybe someone at fox watched Neil's last two horrible movies?

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 04, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 04, 2015, 01:16:29 PMThis could prove equally disastrous if he were to enter production with a half-baked script.

Retcon ALIEN 3 and bring back Ripley and Hicks.  There's your half-baked script right there.  That has to change first.

If Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn are going to be in this movie, it's got to happen fast.  They aren't getting any younger.  In which case, if the movie is fast tracked, then it highly risks raising all the issues that a Project rushed through development brings with it.   

If the movie takes its time, then Ripley and Hicks are going to be Senior Citizens in space with flamethrowers and pulse rifles.  In which case Blomkamp's movie will just be embarrassing.

The real problem here is Fox has missed the boat.  Blomkamp's proposal would have been great, back in 1988.  Unfortunately, that ship sailed over a quarter of a Century ago.  This desperate attempt on Blomkamp's part to make up for lost ground is folly.  Fox and Scott have become aware of that.

Honestly, I don't think that most really fans care about who is holding the pulse rifles and smartguns.  Most fans want to see more Colonial Marine action in this series.  It doesn't have to be Ripley and Hicks all the time, y'know.  It could easily be a fresh cast.  Blomkamp's initial proposal is so hung up on nostalgia it forgets how much more this series has to offer and risks strangulating it to death with love for what's preceded. 

There's no reason to retcon anything.  Who doesn't want another movie featuring the USCM confronting Xenos once again?  I'm all for it.  it could easily parallel the events of 'ALIEN 3' and everyone would be happy.  Wow!  What a radical idea.

But this fan service bullshit that Blomkamp is attempting to strap us down with is no different than the ludicrous nonsense of Hicks returning in 'A:CM'; and frankly, I'd be happy to see it die.   

-Windebieste.

Not this.  I couldn't disagree more.  Alien 3 and Resurrection are both implausible nightmares that the series can't seem to wake up from.  They are great films in their own way but they need to be retconned and in a big way.  The time to do this is now before Biehn and Weaver get too old.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 04, 2015, 03:03:15 AM
It's not getting derailed permanently. I'm utterly mystified why people have suddenly begun to speculate that.

Alright I'm going to come right out and suggest it. Perhaps it's what we secretly want to happen. I mean I really want to see the movie made but at the same time I kind of don't. If you get my drift.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 11:46:49 PM

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 04, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 04, 2015, 01:16:29 PMThis could prove equally disastrous if he were to enter production with a half-baked script.

Retcon ALIEN 3 and bring back Ripley and Hicks.  There's your half-baked script right there.  That has to change first.

If Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn are going to be in this movie, it's got to happen fast.  They aren't getting any younger.  In which case, if the movie is fast tracked, then it highly risks raising all the issues that a Project rushed through development brings with it.   

If the movie takes its time, then Ripley and Hicks are going to be Senior Citizens in space with flamethrowers and pulse rifles.  In which case Blomkamp's movie will just be embarrassing.

The real problem here is Fox has missed the boat.  Blomkamp's proposal would have been great, back in 1988.  Unfortunately, that ship sailed over a quarter of a Century ago.  This desperate attempt on Blomkamp's part to make up for lost ground is folly.  Fox and Scott have become aware of that.

Honestly, I don't think that most really fans care about who is holding the pulse rifles and smartguns.  Most fans want to see more Colonial Marine action in this series.  It doesn't have to be Ripley and Hicks all the time, y'know.  It could easily be a fresh cast.  Blomkamp's initial proposal is so hung up on nostalgia it forgets how much more this series has to offer and risks strangulating it to death with love for what's preceded. 

There's no reason to retcon anything.  Who doesn't want another movie featuring the USCM confronting Xenos once again?  I'm all for it.  it could easily parallel the events of 'ALIEN 3' and everyone would be happy.  Wow!  What a radical idea.

But this fan service bullshit that Blomkamp is attempting to strap us down with is no different than the ludicrous nonsense of Hicks returning in 'A:CM'; and frankly, I'd be happy to see it die.   

-Windebieste.

Not this.  I couldn't disagree more.  Alien 3 and Resurrection are both implausible nightmares that the series can't seem to wake up from.  They are great films in their own way but they need to be retconned and in a big way.  The time to do this is now before Biehn and Weaver get too old.

Here's a suggestion, why not just do a George Lucas Edit and fix the 3rd movie digitally. Completely change the ending and have Rip, Hicks and Newt all survive instead. It's the only way to save shit that's this old. :P

But in all honesty it's way too late to pull a decent retcon off using the same actors. The integrity of the franchise already has enough problems. In my opinion it really would be wiser to move into new territory. Wow now that I think about it, they really should fix the 3rd movie's puppet composting.

God dammit I love you scott, but come on!!!

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 04, 2015, 11:33:03 PMI may be the only person that loves his Hulk.

No, there's two of us :) Much better than the insipid Norton version!

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 11:46:49 PMThey are great films in their own way but they need to be retconned and in a big way.

They just don't though. There are literally an infinite number of things you could do to move the franchise forwards without arbitrarily screwing with what's already there.

Yet you're stubbornly adamant they need to be undone or else the series will die. I think the continued popularity of the franchise after almost 20 years without an actual Alien movie disproves that pretty convincingly. You seem to have got it into your heard that a retcon the only possible course of action, which is blatantly untrue.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 11:46:49 PM
Not this.  I couldn't disagree more.  Alien 3 and Resurrection are both implausible nightmares that the series can't seem to wake up from.  They are great films in their own way but they need to be retconned and in a big way.  The time to do this is now before Biehn and Weaver get too old.

They don't need to do anything, like Huda said, the franchise's popularity shows that it's still pretty much alive. This is a huge sci fi franchise in its own way which has inspired some other big sci fi franchises such as Halo.

They could retcon it if they want to, but to say they need to just sounds desperate. They could just as easily make an original Alien 5 with new faces and still revitalize the franchise which is nowhere close to dying anyway.  :)

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 05, 2015, 12:33:23 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 04, 2015, 11:46:49 PM
Not this.  I couldn't disagree more.  Alien 3 and Resurrection are both implausible nightmares that the series can't seem to wake up from.  They are great films in their own way but they need to be retconned and in a big way.  The time to do this is now before Biehn and Weaver get too old.

They don't need to do anything, like Huda said, the franchise's popularity shows that it's still pretty much alive. This is a huge sci fi franchise in its own way which has inspired some other big sci fi franchises such as Halo.

They could retcon it if they want to, but to say they need to just sounds desperate. They could just as easily make an original Alien 5 with new faces and still revitalize the franchise which is nowhere close to dying anyway.  :)

Or set it in between.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 05, 2015, 08:49:56 AM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 04, 2015, 11:33:03 PMI may be the only person that loves his Hulk.

No, there's two of us :) Much better than the insipid Norton version!

I didn't dislike it either, but Ang Lee's is really close to a masterpiece. (crappy CGI aside...)

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 05, 2015, 07:28:45 PM

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 05, 2015, 08:49:56 AM

Quote from: Tough little S.O.B. on Nov 04, 2015, 11:33:03 PMI may be the only person that loves his Hulk.

No, there's two of us :) Much better than the insipid Norton version!

I didn't dislike it either, but Ang Lee's is really close to a masterpiece. (crappy CGI aside...)

I too liked Ang Lee's Hulk, and the game that is set after the movie. They're a part of my childhood.

I think John Carpenter or Clive Barker should direct, personally. If not James Cameron himself.

Barker wasn't even going to direct his own 'Hellraiser' remake. I don't see him wanting to handle someone else's property.

Carpenter hasn't done a decent film in a long time...

Would be interrested in what Cameron would want to do, but his post-'The Abyss' projects have felt very Hollywood-ised and lack the blue collar magic which made his own earlier era feel so classic.

Plus, recently declaring the recent 'Terminator' sequel was supposedly fantastic, genuinely makes me wonder what in the world was going on with his judgement. It's not as if he needed the money.

Cameron's is an industry man; he'll support any cause if asked too.

Ah yeah.  That's right.  'Genisys' was a soft retcon of movies 3 and 4 in 'The Teminator' series.  That worked out well, didn't it.  lol.

All it did was make an even bigger mess of the extant situation that the 'Terminator'  series may never recover from, including the cancellation of any immediate follow up movies.  Pfft.  The whole exercise was a perfect demonstration of retconning the lesser movies for the sake of shoehorning the lead actor back into the series and how it was too much of a gamble that failed miserably.  It's not worth it.  Retconning 'T3' and 'Salvation' with what amounts to a movie that was even more shit was a tragedy; and yet some people here want to risk the same thing happening with the 'ALIEN' series by bringing back Ripley and Hicks.   So retarded.  So risky. 

There's plenty of opportunities to take this series into more constructive avenues, but no. The Blomkamp Boo-hoo Brigade just want a remake of 'ALIENS'.   f**k that.   Blomkamp could take 'ALIEN 5' into much better places than that.

-Windebieste.

Yes what "windebieste" says.

There's absolutely no denying that Alien 3 was a trainwreck of a movie. I love it. There's lots in it I think is simply brilliant. But I can understand why people hate it and would like to see it revised. However, I don't think a revision is what is needed to "save the franchise". A good film is what is needed. There's an dependence on Ripley for Alien and I think that also really harms the series.

I'd prefer to see them go in a different direction and do something not a retcon. And Blomkamp is a bit of a risk in either direction because he's been quite hit and miss. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved District 9 and I also liked Chappie (but I like Die Antwoord) but I think anything he's attached to could be quite hit or miss too. If Alien 3.2 ends up being good and better than Alien 3 then I'll be happy.

Wasn't expecting to see blomkamps alien until after alien paradise lost anyway.but as alot of films lately haven't been as good as they should have been I don't hold much hope and Ridley Scott had better deliver this time.as good as Prometheus was its no ALIEN.he is capable of making the alien scary again if he puts his mind to it.these 2 films are the films I've been looking forward to for a while and they had better deliver don't want no pg13 rubbish I want full on r rating

Alien 3 is undeniably a mess, and I can absolutely see why people dislike it, hate it even, but what I don't get is this at times morbid obsession with permanently writing it off, seemingly at any cost. It's like scrapping the third film is more important to some people than actually progressing the series in a meaningful way.

I don't call pressing the reset button after almost 25 years progress. Not when there's so much more potential than that.

Although I felt it was a bad way to start Alien³ with Hicks and Newt dead, my grieving for them was done a long time ago ; until recently, I was quite opposed to a retcon. But there is a part of me which started to say ''Why not ?'' for Blomkamp's next Alien film.

Let's have Alien 3.2 like he wants, like 'it should have been'. No need, afterwards, to expand on that timeline he created. End of Ripley's and Hick's story with that movie.

Then have Alien 5 with new characters AND the original timeline...

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 06, 2015, 06:37:44 AM
Ah yeah.  That's right.  'Genisys' was a soft retcon of movies 3 and 4 in 'The Teminator' series.  That worked out well, didn't it.  lol.

All it did was make an even bigger mess of the extant situation that the 'Terminator'  series may never recover from, including the cancellation of any immediate follow up movies.  Pfft.  The whole exercise was a perfect demonstration of retconning the lesser movies for the sake of shoehorning the lead actor back into the series and how it was too much of a gamble that failed miserably.  It's not worth it.  Retconning 'T3' and 'Salvation' with what amounts to a movie that was even more shit was a tragedy; and yet some people here want to risk the same thing happening with the 'ALIEN' series by bringing back Ripley and Hicks.   So retarded.  So risky. 

There's plenty of opportunities to take this series into more constructive avenues, but no. The Blomkamp Boo-hoo Brigade just want a remake of 'ALIENS'.   f**k that.   Blomkamp could take 'ALIEN 5' into much better places than that.

-Windebieste.

This

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 06, 2015, 06:37:44 AM
'Genisys' was a soft retcon of movies 3 and 4 in 'The Teminator' series.

Of all of them.

QuoteRetconning 'T3' and 'Salvation' with what amounts to a movie that was even more shit was a tragedy; and yet some people here want to risk the same thing happening with the 'ALIEN' series by bringing back Ripley and Hicks.   So retarded.  So risky.

If you're saying retcons are bad for the sake that they're retcons, that's simply untrue. Stuff like the recent 'X-Men' film and the 'Battlestar Galactica' TV show achieved both widespread acclaim and commercial success.

Yes, a retcon is a gamble, but it isn't one which is destined to fail. The same charge can just as easily be said of sequels, in general.

QuoteThere's plenty of opportunities to take this series into more constructive avenues, but no. The Blomkamp Boo-hoo Brigade just want a remake of 'ALIENS'.   f**k that.   Blomkamp could take 'ALIEN 5' into much better places than that.

-Windebieste.

You realise that, from everything he's said, he's more of an 'Alien' fan than an 'Aliens' fan, right?

All this name-calling... Yeesh. None of us have the slightest idea what story elements are planned for this (aside from Weyland-Yutani returning to replacing the inept USM, which is a potentially very good development) - and it's Weaver who is responsible for bringing Ripley (and, by extension, Hicks) back into frame. Are we going to collectively start ranting about how Sigourney Weaver's a 'Hicks and Newt fan-girl'? Because she was very assertive of her appreciation for both 'Alien 3' and 'Alien Resurrection' in the past.

Whatever the story's going to be, it's just a modification of one which, by Blomkamp's own admission, originally did take account of 'Alien 3'.

I also find it tiring to see the repeated accusation that critics of 'Alien 3' only care about Hicks and Newt surviving. The film could have kept them alive and it would still have had a mess of flaws.

I don't support the retcon out of hate for Alien 3.   I just think it would be great to see the characters again.  It would feel like getting together with old friends.  Sentimentalist nostalgia?  Maybe, but if that's the worst offense this movie commits, we're going to be alright.

The terminator is a multiverse "time travel" universe... mainstream movie goers may not know what the hell that means however all of the movies happened in that series so TG is not a retcon. In fact inside of TG's timeline T1 and T2 had to have happened while T3 and TG didn't happen in that precise timeline. So far we don't have any of this time travel bullshit in alien and I don't think they should start now.

Still I don't see the difference between a remake from alien and a retcon of Alien³. I mean it's been over 30 years, why not just start from the beginning already if you are going to use the same principle character and just reboot this bitch as a new trilogy. Otherwise at least be honest and call the retcon, Alien 3: Retroactive Continuity.

The recent Battlestar Galactica wasn't a retcon - it was a tabula rasa 're-imaging' of the show.   The producers completely re-started it afresh. 

The new BSG producers didn't approach their project with cries of "Oh, boo-hoo! My favourite characters died mid-season* it's time we fixed this.  Let's bring them back, ignore the rest of the series and use the same aging actors to play their beloved characters 30 years later.  That way, we can give them the ending they deserve!  It'll be so much better this time." 

You know why they didn't do that?  Coz that would have been shit. 

Instead, they took a fresh direction with the core material and totally owned it without relying on sentimentalist nostalgia.  The new BSG is at its best when the stakes are high and popular characters come to an abrupt end with the remaining characters demonstrating their strengths and weaknesses as they respond to these situations.  Such deaths lend a sense of vulnerability to all the characters in the series which was one of the critical and core themes of the show that made it so engaging.  All the characters became susceptible to an untimely demise and their vulnerability is what made them humanly credible and valuable as characters - not a wish fulfillment re-iteration of them returning the sake of nostalgia or vilification.

May as well make Ripley and Hicks invulnerable against rubber-toothed Xenos for all the credibility 'giving them the ending they deserve' will deliver. 

Actually, I could do with a good comedy right now.

-Windebieste.

*While I can't recall any decent characters dying mid-season in original BSG, that's not the point being illustrated here.

I can see your internet vein bulging.

That's my hard on.  come get some.   ;D

-Windebieste.

*runs screaming*

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 06, 2015, 10:19:44 PM
The new BSG producers didn't approach their project with cries of "Oh, boo-hoo! My favourite characters died mid-season* it's time we fixed this.  Let's bring them back, ignore the rest of the series and use the same aging actors to play their beloved characters 30 years later.  That way, we can give them the ending they deserve!  It'll be so much better this time."

You know why they didn't do that?  Coz that would have been shit.

But neither is Blomkamp.

When have you seen him interviewed and express seething anger over Hicks, Newt or even Ripley dying? Never has.

Again, his original story was going to take account of 'Alien 3'. If you want to blame anyone for switching that around, then Sigourney's your girl.

The same actress who repeatedly spoke of appreciation and admiration of the third and fourth films in successive interviews, down the years, when virtually nobody else had wanted to. :)

It suits your prejudice to imagine Blomkamp as some kind of hate-fuelled fan-boy type, who's doing this purely to resurrect Hicks/Newt (let's not lose sight of how Newt hasn't featured in any released material and, for all we know, might be dying in this film's story, too), but that's not the slightest bit accurate to the real guy. He's doing this because he loves the original two films and the work of HR Giger, in particular. He loves the first one more than the second. He's also been influenced by 'Alien Isolation' to try and make this project look and feel very like it. He wants to bring back the psychosexual stuff which was completely, utterly absent from the third and fourth films.

So, please, people... Let's relax and stop building up this false ideal of what his motivations are. None of us want to see 'Pitchford - The Motion Picture' and there's not so much as a hint of anything close to that. So far as I can see, this is going to have the visual tone of 'Alien Isolation', the action sequences of 'Aliens' and a legitimate stab at replicating the nightmarish horror of 'Alien'.

If it succeeds in that, how could it possibly be a bad thing?

Let's just hope it does and that we're entertained along the way.

I think NB has an admirer.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 12:19:16 AM
I think NB has an admirer.

He has lots of admirers; I'm one too.

I believe Blomkamp is capable of making a very good 'ALIEN' movie.  As a Director, I think he can pull it off.  I've seen all of his stuff to date and it's a mixed bag, for sure.  He's technically very competent and capable of placing something on the big screen that will be a very engaging piece of cinema framed within this series. 

To do so, he will need a great script and a completely fresh cast to fill the necessary roles of pitching the USCM against Xenos.  It would be the bomb! 

I want to see that movie get made.   The presence of Ripley and Hicks just complicates the entire situation.  Needlessly.

-Windebieste

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 12:19:16 AM
I think NB has an admirer.

For the record, I was one of the loudest critics against the spontaneous outpouring to champion getting the project green-lit, based on nothing but some pretty concept art being dumped into the public domain. I was very mindful that 'Colonial Marines' had some nice pictures when that was in development, too.

However, I'm also a big believer in giving a film a chance, so long as it's being helmed by competent talent. Some of the interviews have given me hope it won't be as superficial as some were fearing, certainly. Especially when he was very open and up front about acknowledging the flaws of 'Elysium' (which is more than can be said for Ridley Scott, in regards to 'Prometheus').

Until we get some concrete news, either way, I'm content to just sit back and hope for the best. I just don't see the sense in hyping or bitching about it, when we're cruising along in an absence of information.

A few people seem to be acting as if this isnt bad news for Blomkamps Alien film. Yes, its 'holding' but Blomkamp also says it is 'pending' Prometheus 2... And he says 'as much as I like Ripley and the Aliens' he will be working on other things. He is saying basically that he isnt sure that its going to happen and isnt waiting, and he wont know until fox approves that its miving forward PENDING prometheus 2...  For whatever reason Fox wants to wait for Prometheus 2 to be finished before moving forward... Thats means its indefinite. He is telling us, because of that, for now he is moving on.

I think the delay is going to be a good thing and like I have said before; NB can definitely pull it off. I'd just prefer something ~newer. I also don't think the delay is a death sentence, fox needs an R-rated sci-fi/horror/action movie in it's repertoire and Alien fits that bill perfectly.

Oh and the reason I feel he wants to redue alien³ is because that is what he has hinted at since he made the announcement. You know, to make the sequel to aliens that he wants too. It is what it is. Not an alien movie persay, but his version of the sequel he wanted to see ~25 years ago. I don't think he needs to do that nor do I want them to go into that direction and yes that is where I think the movie was headed. However I'll take whatever he gives us to be honest. :P

Go Neil Bloomkamp. *waves xeno-flag™ in the air. Go team NB. :P

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 07, 2015, 02:46:19 AM
A few people seem to be acting as if this isnt bad news for Blomkamps Alien film. Yes, its 'holding' but Blomkamp also says it is 'pending' Prometheus 2... And he says 'as much as I like Ripley and the Aliens' he will be working on other things. He is saying basically that he isnt sure that its going to happen and isnt waiting, and he wont know until fox approves that its miving forward PENDING prometheus 2...  For whatever reason Fox wants to wait for Prometheus 2 to be finished before moving forward... Thats means its indefinite. He is telling us, because of that, for now he is moving on.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwbbOitP.jpg&hash=5ac8e96bbed83b213f993529d5bc3772fa71187d)

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 07, 2015, 02:46:19 AM
He is telling us, because of that, for now he is moving on.

https://twitter.com/NeillBlomkamp/status/659897245353951236 (https://twitter.com/NeillBlomkamp/status/659897245353951236)

The omission of the words "in the meantime" in that tweet is quite interesting actually. One could interpret it as, "he's done with Alien, he's moving on, not going back".

But it could also just be a way of putting pressure on the studio again. I think they realise that they would need Blomkamp to make it happen. It's their IP but Blomkamp's story. Would he allow them to develop his story under a different director if he were to leave the project?

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 12:19:16 AM
I think NB has an admirer.

Posting facts makes him neither an admirer nor a critic.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 07, 2015, 01:40:59 PM

Quote from: CainsSon on Nov 07, 2015, 02:46:19 AM
He is telling us, because of that, for now he is moving on.

https://twitter.com/NeillBlomkamp/status/659897245353951236 (https://twitter.com/NeillBlomkamp/status/659897245353951236)

The omission of the words "in the meantime" in that tweet is quite interesting actually. One could interpret it as, "he's done with Alien, he's moving on, not going back".

But it could also just be a way of putting pressure on the studio again. I think they realise that they would need Blomkamp to make it happen. It's their IP but Blomkamp's story. Would he allow them to develop his story under a different director if he were to leave the project?

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 12:19:16 AM
I think NB has an admirer.

Posting facts makes him neither an admirer nor a critic.

... or those words exceeded the 185 character limit on twitter... they're not facts, just conjecture. The only fact posted on this board is that none of us know what the hell's going on. Besides, why so serious. The comment has no meaning. Just after all the negativity someone came out and said it. None of us know much about it.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 30, 2015, 11:00:03 AM

Quote from: swarm87 on Oct 30, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
YAY!!!!! no fanboy retcon fanfilm.

Pretty much this. Alien3 lives on (for now) and I couldn't be happier.

Alien 3 fans have scored some breathing space.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 07, 2015, 12:59:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wbbOitP.jpg

You're assuming he had a say in it.

That's because Ridley is the Master and Blompkamp is the Apprentice.

The only way they'll let Blomkamp do A5 now is if Paradise Lost is a total bomb that fans hate it. Hence the "pending" part of his tweet.

The only other way would be if he did one of the Prometheus sequels (which would be cool as he is pro the psycho-sexual Giger aesthetic) or if he took an element from the Prometheus series and made a continuation of it set sometime beyond Resurrection. I just don't see the A3 retcon ever happening now.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 09:17:20 PM
... or those words exceeded the 185 character limit on twitter...

Nah, if you add those words it would still be within Twitter's 140 character limit. Go on, count 'em rabbit! You know you want to.  :P

Quotethey're not facts, just conjecture.

Xenomorphine was quoting from interviews conducted with Blomkamp, how can it be "just conjecture"?

Quote from: SiL on Nov 08, 2015, 03:02:23 AM
You're assuming he had a say in it.

Oh, I'm sure Ridley Scott's the one who had the ultimate say in it. :)

Quote from: tmjhur on Nov 08, 2015, 01:33:17 PM
The only way they'll let Blomkamp do A5 now is if Paradise Lost is a total bomb that fans hate it. Hence the "pending" part of his tweet.

The only other way would be if he did one of the Prometheus sequels (which would be cool as he is pro the psycho-sexual Giger aesthetic) or if he took an element from the Prometheus series and made a continuation of it set sometime beyond Resurrection. I just don't see the A3 retcon ever happening now.

Except Blomkamp's film has already been green-lit and is far enough into the pre-production phase for actual props to be getting machined and fabricated.

There reason he wrote 'pending' really wasn't cryptic. There isn't any need to go searching for hidden meanings. Scott's the main producer. That's the single most important person on a film set. The moment the 'Prometheus' sequel is wrapped, then things will be full steam ahead. At this point, the project can afford to be that way - they won't be losing money by simply pausing for a while.

If they were already filming, it would be a very different story.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 08, 2015, 02:19:30 PM

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 07, 2015, 09:17:20 PM
... or those words exceeded the 185 character limit on twitter...

Nah, if you add those words it would still be within Twitter's 140 character limit. Go on, count 'em rabbit! You know you want to.  :P

Quotethey're not facts, just conjecture.

Xenomorphine was quoting from interviews conducted with Blomkamp, how can it be "just conjecture"?

First, I thought twitter increased their character limit but then again, twitter is something I don't bother with and second, he said none of us know what the film is about. Hence the conjecture on the part of all of us. Which is why I agree with Xenomorphine that we don't know what the plan is nor where all of the hate for NB is coming from. I'm just happy that there's interest in the alien franchise.

That being said, what kind of fan boy are you? Retcon or wet-my-undies? :P

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 08, 2015, 08:59:18 PM
That being said, what kind of fan boy are you? Retcon or wet-my-undies? :P

The Eighth shall remain inscrutably enigmatic, as always. ;)

Aslong as both films are true to the alien franchise I don't really care as alien 3 and resurection to be honest are not that good.just hope alien paradise lost will be what the title suggests didn't mind Prometheus but was expecting at least a proper xeno connection not just that deacon at the end

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 08, 2015, 08:23:56 PM
That's the single most important person on a film set.

Director's most important on set. Producer's most important in getting the thing off the ground.

As for being enough into preproduction to machine prototypes, that really doesn't mean anything. That prop wouldn't have been expensive or time-consuming. Alien3 had sets constructed when they scrapped their entire script and brought on an entirely new director, not to mention direction, for the film.

When the director walks away from pre-production of a movie to work on entirely unrelated projects, that is worrying, even with the pretense he'd be back. If the film was a sure thing they'd continue pre-production for as long as possible and use the time extension to their advantage, not disband and send their energies elsewhere. If Alien5 does happen down the line, there's now a very good chance that Blomkamp will no longer be confirmed as director without a fresh negotiation, leaving the project open for others.

Quote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2015, 11:36:11 AMAlien3 had sets constructed when they scrapped their entire script and brought on an entirely new director, not to mention direction, for the film.

But they had a script (even if they ultimately ditched it).

They hadn't just turned in a first draft a couple of weeks previously. Ward's script had been under development for months.

The point stands: a single pulse rifle prop doesn't indicate the movie is a "sure thing".

No, I agree. Blomkamp could've paid to have that bashed together himself as a pre-vis. In fact I'd wager that's exactly what the situation is.

Hell, being the Alien(s) fanboy he purports to be, it might just be one he's owned himself for years, and has nothing in particular to do with the new movie.

Oh well. Considering Alien:Isolation was the only good thing that happened to the Alien during the last 23 years, i couldn't be more indifferent today. For all i care, they can cancel both Alien 5 and Prometheus 2.

Blomkamp's looking at his next project - http://deadline.com/2015/11/the-gone-world-neill-blomkamp-fox-science-fiction-district-9-1201618007/

If he can't deliver a film more on par with District 9, as opposed to the disappointing Elysium and CHAPPiE, then I really will start to wonder whether he's just a one-trick pony.

Hopefully basing his new movie on someone else's story might help iron out the wrinkles in Blomkamp's script-writing abilities.

I liked Chappie when I saw it in the cinema. I thought it was pretty quirky and Chappie himself was a great character. But yeah, I do hope this next one actually returns him to his District 9 quality.

I've enjoyed all of his films, but the ones since District 9 have been terribly uneven, with glaring flaws that offset everything that's good in them. CHAPPiE was the worst offender for this, it veered wildly between brilliant and kinda rubbish. I did enjoy it quite a bit, but I can totally see why a lot of people weren't impressed.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 11, 2015, 10:30:36 AM
Blomkamp's looking at his next project - http://deadline.com/2015/11/the-gone-world-neill-blomkamp-fox-science-fiction-district-9-1201618007/

Empire has a slightly longer article: http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/neill-blomkamp-talks-write-direct-gone-world/ (http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/neill-blomkamp-talks-write-direct-gone-world/)

Quote"a sci-fi time travel procedural"

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nootsnotes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FBugs-Bunny2.jpg&hash=da763f7cd4deddd5cfebbb484fc98c2c49d8dff6)

To be honest, I'd rather he do District 10, Marvin or some other original IP of his own invention.

I'm calling it now: If Blomkamp makes another film that continues his downward spiral then the chances of him making Alien 5 are over.  Make no mistake, Fox will be watching to see if he can pull off another district 9, or if gone world will go the way of Elysium and Chappie.  This will be make or break for Blomkamp. No studio in their right mind would let a director who's films have consistently done worse and worse near a big name franchise like Alien.

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 11, 2015, 08:38:39 PM
I'm calling it now: If Blomkamp makes another film that continues his downward spiral then the chances of him making Alien 5 are over.  Make no mistake, Fox will be watching to see if he can pull off another district 9, or if gone world will go the way of Elysium and Chappie.  This will be make or break for Blomkamp. No studio in their right mind would let a director who's films have consistently done worse and worse near a big name franchise like Alien.

You're "calling" the most blatantly obvious observation ever?

Quote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
Director's most important on set. Producer's most important in getting the thing off the ground.

Well, exactly. You can have as many directors on set as you want, but they won't be doing anything if the budget's not being managed.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 10, 2015, 11:44:11 AM
No, I agree. Blomkamp could've paid to have that bashed together himself as a pre-vis. In fact I'd wager that's exactly what the situation is.

That side of things is generally done in computer, these days.

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 11, 2015, 08:38:39 PM
I'm calling it now: If Blomkamp makes another film that continues his downward spiral then the chances of him making Alien 5 are over.  Make no mistake, Fox will be watching to see if he can pull off another district 9, or if gone world will go the way of Elysium and Chappie.  This will be make or break for Blomkamp.

You see a "downward spiral". I don't. I liked 'District 9' and 'Chappie' equally. The only exception is really 'Elysium' - and he's done the mature thing, stood up and very publicly acknowledged its flaws in a way which heavily implied he's going to try and rectify what led to them on future projects.

I won't care if it's not made, but all this prophetic doom-mongering feels hysterical, man. :/

QuoteNo studio in their right mind would let a director who's films have consistently done worse and worse near a big name franchise like Alien.

That'd be the same studio which prided itself on taking someone who had helmed nothing but adverts and music videos, for the sequel to 'Aliens', right? :)

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PM
You see a "downward spiral". I don't. I liked 'District 9' and 'Chappie' equally. The only exception is really 'Elysium' - and he's done the mature thing, stood up and very publicly acknowledged its flaws in a way which heavily implied he's going to try and rectify what led to them on future projects.

Critically and financially yes, its been down hill since District 9.  I also admire that he had the integrity to acknowledge the flaws in Elysium. Time will tell if he learned from his mistakes. It all depends on how this new film turns out.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PM
That'd be the same studio which prided itself on taking someone who had helmed nothing but adverts and music videos, for the sequel to 'Aliens', right? :)

good point.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PM

Quote from: marrerom on Nov 11, 2015, 08:38:39 PM
I'm calling it now: If Blomkamp makes another film that continues his downward spiral then the chances of him making Alien 5 are over.  Make no mistake, Fox will be watching to see if he can pull off another district 9, or if gone world will go the way of Elysium and Chappie.  This will be make or break for Blomkamp.

You see a "downward spiral". I don't. I liked 'District 9' and 'Chappie' equally. The only exception is really 'Elysium' - and he's done the mature thing, stood up and very publicly acknowledged its flaws in a way which heavily implied he's going to try and rectify what led to them on future projects.

I won't care if it's not made, but all this prophetic doom-mongering feels hysterical, man. :/

I liked Chappie too but only because of Chappie himself and I like Die Antwoord for some strange reason. Critically, financially  and general opinion have this being another Elyisum for him.

I'm expecting it to all go to pot if his next film is a tank too.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PMThat side of things is generally done in computer, these days.

You're forgetting that Blomkamp is a massive weapons buff and loves to have things like that built practically ahead of time. There were a huge number of alien weapons built for District 9 that never even made it into the film. This kind of thing is his forte.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PMYou see a "downward spiral". I don't.

Pretty sure the vast majority of people would disagree. CHAPPiE was wildly uneven whereas District 9 was infinitely more consistent.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 11, 2015, 11:27:33 PM
Well, exactly. You can have as many directors on set as you want, but they won't be doing anything if the budget's not being managed.

Producer doesn't manage the money on set. Line producer mostly does that.

QuoteThat'd be the same studio which prided itself on taking someone who had helmed nothing but adverts and music videos, for the sequel to 'Aliens', right? :)

They prided themselves on hiring relative unknowns for all of the movies to that point. Scott had The Deulists and Cameron was given the director's chair before The Terminator was widely released. They saw in Fincher someone with potential and vision, like they had the last two times.

Blomkamp has a track record and although D9 was successful and well received his other two films haven't been at the same level. They're not taking a chance on an unknown, they're gambling on an inconsistent known quantity.

Yesterday i read a news article that the whole Alien 5 is shut down, because Ridles wants to end the franchise with his own style,
and thus ending up at the first Alien.
Anyone who can confrm this?

I wouldn't put much stock in it. It seems to stem from a comment a few months ago that Scott wanted to do the Prometheus sequels himself because he regrets not getting to do the other Aliens. IGN took that as he wants to do all Alien films himself and compound that with people taking Blomkamp's "on hold" tweet to mean cancelled and you get this recent crap.

I'm definitely annoyed by this, Blomkamp's Alien V seemed to be a step in the right direction, while this "Covenant" synopsis looks like Scott is simply going to do ONCE AGAIN the same plot from all the Alien films he has directed. What a bummer =(

Quote from: Magegg on Nov 22, 2015, 05:40:12 PM
I'm definitely annoyed by this, Blomkamp's Alien V seemed to be a step in the right direction, while this "Covenant" synopsis looks like Scott is simply going to do ONCE AGAIN the same plot from all the Alien films he has directed. What a bummer =(

What do you base this assumption on?

Prometheus was nothing like Alien save for including some aesthetics and the Deacon at the end.

What if Blomkamp's film turns out to be another Aliens? Let's see, it's got Hicks, RIpley, Newt, Colonial Marines and Xenos.

What else had all of that? Aliens did.

Needless to say, this was a step in the right direction, Covenant looks like it will at east explore more of the Engineers and other NEW things Prometheus introduced.

While all Alien V seems to be promising is a confusing timeline and dead characters being resurrected without explanation.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 22, 2015, 08:37:06 PMPrometheus was nothing like Alien save for including some aesthetics and the Deacon at the end.

It was just like Alien. An exploration team goes in a ship, they inspect some ancient structure, creatures inside it infect passengers, a creature breaks free and start killing everyone.

Covenant I guess it's going to be just the same as that, more cannon fodder expedition members, another variant of the xeno, probably Fassbender giving some exposition in the middle... it's like either Scott only likes to do that, or Fox wants to keep the same formula to ensure good box office... and we all are going to watch it.

Quote from: Magegg on Nov 23, 2015, 01:15:28 AM

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 22, 2015, 08:37:06 PMPrometheus was nothing like Alien save for including some aesthetics and the Deacon at the end.

It was just like Alien. An exploration team goes in a ship, they inspect some ancient structure, creatures inside it infect passengers, a creature breaks free and start killing everyone.

Covenant I guess it's going to be just the same as that, more cannon fodder expedition members, another variant of the xeno, probably Fassbender giving some exposition in the middle... it's like either Scott only likes to do that, or Fox wants to keep the same formula to ensure good box office... and we all are going to watch it.

I see what you mean.

I do love it when new things get introduced, my favourite things about Prometheus is them introducing the Engineers and how they seed life. This has introduced the possibility of there being more life out there, and some being as intelligent as us too.

So I understand why you are cautious about Covenant re-treading on old things and repeating the cycle.

To me however, Covenant feels like it will introduce new things like Prometheus did with the Engineers while Alien V (from what I've mostly been hearing) seems to want to re-do what Aliens did and with the same characters to boot. The only "new" stuff I've seen is some strange monolith like structure from the concept art.

In the end though, so long as the films are good, I won't be too bothered. But I'm with you on hoping that new things get explored like finally meeting the Arcturians. It's like a breath of fresh air. Best thing is wait and see how it turns out.

Promethues didn't introduce something new, just brought on board the ancient aliens theory and added a lot of unexplained nonsense... hell, Damon "Mr. Lost" Lindelof walked out of the sequel because not even him could explain or give a direction to all the bullshit he included at that movie =/
I mean, I loved the movie, it was a great nostalgic throwback to the original Alien, but doing it just once again becomes unacceptable this time...

The only difference with this one is going to be that this time it will actually tie in with Alien, but that's just bad planning, Prometheus could have finished with the Jockey crashing on LV-### (whatever number it was the Alien derelict ship) and then there wouldn't be any need for this movie.

Just greenlight Blomkamp's sequel, god dammit :/

How do you know Blomkamp's sequel will not do the exact same thing that's been done?

Neil Blomkamp isn't famous for making some innovative stellar masterpieces out there. I haven't seen his other films besides District 9 and from what I heard, that's basically his best film.

So how do you know Alien V won't just be Colonial Marines (with Hicks, Ripley and Newt again) vs Aliens? I mean, Blomkamp isn't exactly Steven Spielberg here, no offense to the guy at least he's no Uwe Boll.

At least Covenant has the decency of introducing new characters instead of bringing back old ones.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 02:00:18 AMHow do you know Blomkamp's sequel will not do the exact same thing that's been done? So how do you know Alien V won't just be Colonial Marines (with Hicks, Ripley and Newt again) vs Aliens?

I wouldn't be against repeating Aliens all over, that's something the movie series has never done, while Prometheus is largely a repetition of the first Alien plot, we don't need TWO repetitions of that, ha ha.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 23, 2015, 02:00:18 AMAt least Covenant has the decency of introducing new characters instead of bringing back old ones.

Yeah, new characters that are either cannon fodder for the xenos, or that they're going to abandon right away, just like they did with Shaw from Prometheus, since whoever is writing doesn't know what to do with them next.

At least Blomkamp's would give us the pleasure of having back two of our favorite characters, also they would be seasoned xeno hunters most likely, so they wouldn't be "fooled twice" and that makes it more likely to not repeat the same plot as the past movies...

Quote from: Magegg on Nov 23, 2015, 01:32:59 AMPromethues didn't introduce something new

As opposed to Blomkamp literally hitting the reset button...?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of either proposed Alien-verse movie, but this argument seems a little hypocritical.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 23, 2015, 09:01:47 AM

Quote from: Magegg on Nov 23, 2015, 01:32:59 AMPromethues didn't introduce something new

As opposed to Blomkamp literally hitting the reset button...?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of either proposed Alien-verse movie, but this argument seems a little hypocritical.

For what the concept art looks, it's going to be radically different to Aliens. And the fact it's hitting the reset button doesn't mean anything, as they're not doing a remake but an alternate sequel; you can tell new kinds of stories using the same characters... specially since they've developed after the events of the past movie.
As for what Ridley's sequel looks like, they're just getting other näive and innocent goo-touching explorers or something.

And you surmised this from a small synopsis?

Nah. We don't know enough about either film to make those sort of assumptions yet.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 23, 2015, 10:33:18 AM
And you surmised this from a small synopsis?

Nah. We don't know enough about either film to make those sort of assumptions yet.

Pretty much this.

We'll learn more in the upcoming months.

With regards to the introduction of new things. In truth, Ive been disappointed with this aspect of the franchise more than Ive been happy with it.
The Queen was cool. The Dog-Alien, I loved. The stuff in A:R I liked, in concept, alone. The Newborn looked bad, Ripley 8 was cool if she was actually weirder and not shoehorned into being an Action-hero, the clones were cool (I really wanted to see what was cut out of Ripley 7), I hated the amphibian webbed feet on the xenos, the Predalien looked cool but made zero sense, the Engineers in the beginning of Prometheus are cool but once they wear those suits and have glowing holograms coming out of the Giger-esque tech, I hate them. Also, their suits would have been cool if they actually merged with their flesh and I got to see that, the snakes were cool, the Fifield-mutation was lame, the Trilobyte sucked, and the deacon was too big when it chest-bursted from the Engineer, it didn't look right coming out. I wish we had never seen a chest-burster in Prometheus at all. However, I liked it (the Deacon and Prometheus) overall.

And when they finally start making Alien 5 in maybe 2025, Weaver or/and Biehn die at a heart attack before the first day. f**king typical it would be  :D

I just can't take all of this mess seriously anymore  ;D

I'm very happy we got two classics and one decent film out of this series,that's enough for me.

Quote from: stroggificated on Nov 28, 2015, 05:40:11 PM
And when they finally start making Alien 5 in maybe 2025, Weaver or/and Biehn die at a heart attack before the first day. f**king typical it would be  :D

I just can't take all of this mess seriously anymore  ;D

:D

Why scott is doing this? Alien 5 could be amazing movie and his Alien: Paradise Lost will be the same ridiculous and stupid as Prometheus.
Scott I hate you . I want Alien 5 with Weaver and Biehn !!!!

There's nothing to really indicate how good Alien 3.2 would be yet. Let's give them time so we can get actual information.

Quote from: keymillo on Dec 01, 2015, 08:10:11 PM
Why scott is doing this? Alien 5 could be amazing movie and his Alien: Paradise Lost will be the same ridiculous and stupid as Prometheus.
Scott I hate you . I want Alien 5 with Weaver and Biehn !!!!

I think it was Fox that wants to do Prometheus 2 first. Alien 5 is a curse. Everytime someone wants to make Alien 5, it ends up never happening. I remember Cameron wanted to Alien 5, but Fox want to AVP instead.

Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 03, 2015, 09:08:18 PM

Quote from: keymillo on Dec 01, 2015, 08:10:11 PM
Why scott is doing this? Alien 5 could be amazing movie and his Alien: Paradise Lost will be the same ridiculous and stupid as Prometheus.
Scott I hate you . I want Alien 5 with Weaver and Biehn !!!!

I think it was Fox that wants to do Prometheus 2 first. Alien 5 is a curse. Everytime someone wants to make Alien 5, it ends up never happening. I remember Cameron wanted to Alien 5, but Fox want to AVP instead.

Because it is always somebody trying to take on the project all by themselves instead of letting others bring in their own unique talents and have multiple people working together as a team to make it happen without snags.

Quote from: LCpl. D. Grant on Dec 05, 2015, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 03, 2015, 09:08:18 PM

Quote from: keymillo on Dec 01, 2015, 08:10:11 PM
Why scott is doing this? Alien 5 could be amazing movie and his Alien: Paradise Lost will be the same ridiculous and stupid as Prometheus.
Scott I hate you . I want Alien 5 with Weaver and Biehn !!!!

I think it was Fox that wants to do Prometheus 2 first. Alien 5 is a curse. Everytime someone wants to make Alien 5, it ends up never happening. I remember Cameron wanted to Alien 5, but Fox want to AVP instead.

Because it is always somebody trying to take on the project all by themselves instead of letting others bring in their own unique talents and have multiple people working together as a team to make it happen without snags.

You can also run into the snag of "too many hands in the pie" and delay a project because no one can agree on anything.

I think the best case scenario here is that Scott and Blomkamp bounce really well off each other. I think it's good to have a guiding hand looking over the franchise but we really need Scott to be on point.

What they both really need is a strong writer to work alongside them.

I think if the movie comes out late then it could still do well. Mad Max 4 and Rambo 4 both did well for sequels release decades later. I think if the word of mouth is good and the marketing is good then people will still be up for another Alien movie with Ripley.

I hope it gets delayed out of existence. Just felt cheesy and fanish to begin with, and the whole idea to ignore A3 and A:R is just cheap and lazy. Made it feel like yet another Alien franchise video game, novel or comic with no bearing.

With that said I really hope we will get a "proper" ALIEN Alien movie with Alien Covenant (Alien: Paradise Lost).

I know you're vehemently against the idea of a retcon - I'm not too fussed myself - but it's far too early to meaningfully judge the quality of the film based on that one dislike.

Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Dec 12, 2015, 07:22:42 AM
I think if the movie comes out late then it could still do well. Mad Max 4 and Rambo 4 both did well for sequels release decades later. I think if the word of mouth is good and the marketing is good then people will still be up for another Alien movie with Ripley.

Mad Max 4 is also a good example of a film that was stuck in development hell for literally decades and yet was not only eventually made but also turned out magnificently.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 07, 2015, 08:34:46 AM
I think the best case scenario here is that Scott and Blomkamp bounce really well off each other. I think it's good to have a guiding hand looking over the franchise but we really need Scott to be on point.

What they both really need is a strong writer to work alongside them.

I agree. Good direction is one thing but without good writing that direction pretty much amounts to a Michael Bay film.... guns, explosions, fires, and a bunch of screaming. Not that it's any less entertaining.. but definitely not what I want to see in another alien film. Especially if it is trying to put the franchise back on the rails.

Considering how Star Wars Episode VII is also a film for fans and its subsequent success, would Blomkamp's Alien V really be that bad of an idea?

But Episode 7 didn't overwrite any of the films though.

(Yes, it did overwrite the EU and that pissed off so many fans just like Blomkamp's idea is to some of the fans here, except his one wants to undo two films apparently.)

Let's see the response you get from fans when you suggest to them 'The Force Awakens' should be retconned because Han Solo died.   It was just a dream and he should get the ending he deserves.

This will be good.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2015, 09:35:47 PM
Let's see the response you get from fans when you suggest to them 'The Force Awakens' should be retconned because Han Solo died.   It was just a dream and he should get the ending he deserves.

This will be good.

-Windebieste.

LOL!  Touche!

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2015, 09:35:47 PM
Let's see the response you get from fans when you suggest to them 'The Force Awakens' should be retconned because Han Solo died.   It was just a dream and he should get the ending he deserves.

This will be good.

-Windebieste.

Return of the Jedi should be retconned because Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader didn't die and deserve a better ending!

*Feels a rumble, a raging fanboy stampede*

I'm outta here! May the Force be with you all!

If they do retcon Alien 3 and Resurrection, they better not do the dream route..

I don't mind the retcon if they simply ignore it... because then I could well... give this fandom/franchise up on a good note.

Quote from: predxeno on Dec 31, 2015, 08:24:17 PMConsidering how Star Wars Episode VII is also a film for fans and its subsequent success, would Blomkamp's Alien V really be that bad of an idea?

Take away the continuous fan-pleasing homages and The Force Awakens was an incredibly empty movie. Absolutely not what I want from an Alien film.

The new STAR WARS movie played it too safe.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 31, 2015, 09:43:08 PM

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2015, 09:35:47 PM
Let's see the response you get from fans when you suggest to them 'The Force Awakens' should be retconned because Han Solo died.   It was just a dream and he should get the ending he deserves.

This will be good.

-Windebieste.

LOL!  Touche!

Ok, this is OT, but there are at least 2 significant differences to consider between Newt / Hicks and Han Solo's deaths.

1.  The death of Han Solo was an integral part of the Star Wars 7 film whereas the death of Newt / Hicks was done in a sleight of hand manner in the opening credits of the film as if the characters did not have any value.  Han Solo had a "good death" paying full respect to the fans' emotional investment, while Newt / Hicks were disposed of like trash, thereby insulting the fans' emotional investment.

3.  Resultingly the fan response to Alien 3 was terrible, while the fan response to Star Wars was terrific.  There is no need to worry about retconning a film that had a terrific fan response.  Questionable, fluffy story notwithstanding.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 01, 2016, 09:30:23 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 31, 2015, 09:43:08 PM

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2015, 09:35:47 PM
Let's see the response you get from fans when you suggest to them 'The Force Awakens' should be retconned because Han Solo died.   It was just a dream and he should get the ending he deserves.

This will be good.

-Windebieste.

LOL!  Touche!

Ok, this is OT, but there are at least 2 significant differences to consider between Newt / Hicks and Han Solo's deaths.

1.  The death of Han Solo was an integral part of the Star Wars 7 film whereas the death of Newt / Hicks was done in a sleight of hand manner in the opening credits of the film as if the characters did not have any value.  Han Solo had a "good death" paying full respect to the fans' emotional investment, while Newt / Hicks were disposed of like trash, thereby insulting the fans' emotional investment.

3.  Resultingly the fan response to Alien 3 was terrible, while the fan response to Star Wars was terrific.  There is no need to worry about retconning a film that had a terrific fan response.  Questionable, fluffy story notwithstanding.

It wasn't terrible(unlike P2)It was a hit in Europe but now it is more appreciated because of the directors cut.

Out of curiosity, how many people watch the "director's cut"?  I get the feeling only the hardcore Alien/sci-fi fans watched it while more casual moviegoers are happy to settle for the theatrical release that's always been available.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 05:19:27 AM
Out of curiosity, how many people watch the "director's cut"?  I get the feeling only the hardcore Alien/sci-fi fans watched it while more casual moviegoers are happy to settle for the theatrical release that's always been available.

I think more casual people just dont pay attention to Alien 3.  The idea that Alien 3 was well received by fans baffles me.  How do you gauge that in a pre-Internet age?  Just going by the numbers alone doesn't tell us the true or complete story.  The fact that a lot of people went to see the film internationally, just means that people wanted to see a great follow-up to Aliens most likely.  It was Aliens that brought them into the theaters.  Yes it could have been a commercial success with a lot of people walking out of the theaters being like, "what the f--k did I just see?"

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 02, 2016, 06:39:35 AM
It was Aliens that brought them into the theaters.  Yes it could have been a commercial success with a lot of people walking out of the theaters being like, "what the f--k did I just see?"

So basically the same reaction to every Michael Bay Transformers film after the first one. :laugh:

Michael Bay should make 'ALIENS: Colonial Marines' into a movie.

Who cares if it's any good?  Will still make bank. 

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1019.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf318%2FkarenMac%2FkarenMac%2520Album%2FBWAHAHA2.jpg&hash=f6b46805a9dc5dcaa1f5149f53f702858f5a03bb)

-Windebieste.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 01, 2016, 09:30:23 PM1.  The death of Han Solo was an integral part of the Star Wars 7 film whereas the death of Newt / Hicks was done in a sleight of hand manner in the opening credits of the film as if the characters did not have any value.

The death of Hicks an newt was an integral part of the film in that it set up the tone of the following movie and established Ripley's entire character for the rest of the film. Just because you didn't like how they did it, you can't claim it wasn't integral to the movie.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 02, 2016, 10:47:55 AM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 01, 2016, 09:30:23 PM1.  The death of Han Solo was an integral part of the Star Wars 7 film whereas the death of Newt / Hicks was done in a sleight of hand manner in the opening credits of the film as if the characters did not have any value.

The death of Hicks an newt was an integral part of the film in that it set up the tone of the following movie and established Ripley's entire character for the rest of the film. Just because you didn't like how they did it, you can't claim it wasn't integral to the movie.

What if you missed the beginning because you were waiting in line for popcorn... yea it was just sort of something that they did and it pissed off most people. Hell they should just cut the first 5 minutes out. :P

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 02, 2016, 11:04:43 AMWhat if you missed the beginning because you were waiting in line for popcorn...

If you missed it then you wouldn't understand what the hell was going on afterwards. Ergo, integral to the movie.

Quote from: windebieste on Jan 02, 2016, 08:31:38 AM
Michael Bay should make 'ALIENS: Colonial Marines' into a movie.

Who cares if it's any good?  Will still make bank. 

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af318/karenMac/karenMac%20Album/BWAHAHA2.jpg

-Windebieste.

Bayliens!  :laugh:

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 02, 2016, 11:50:20 AM

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 02, 2016, 11:04:43 AMWhat if you missed the beginning because you were waiting in line for popcorn...

If you missed it then you wouldn't understand what the hell was going on afterwards. Ergo, integral to the movie.

I think people overly romanticize their deaths; Alien 3 was never anything truly more than a rip-off of the first film.

Completely disagree. It having 1 Alien does not make it a rip-off of the first.

Well, I wouldn't call it a perfect rip-off; it does have much more originality than many actual "homage-films" these days so it may be unfair of me to call it such.  However, many people over-romanticize the deaths of Hicks and Newt to the point that their demise is part of a bigger plan of sorts when in reality it was likely just lazy writing; many people involved in the previous film(s) such as James Cameron, Michael Biehn, and Alan Dean Foster perceived it as much.

It's unfair of you to call it a rip off because it simply isn't.

Yes I concede that, I probably instead should have said it's a poor follow-up to Aliens by forcing itself to follow too closely in Alien's footsteps which resulted in giving some of the franchise's most beloved characters the ultimate movie humiliation: off-screen deaths.

And how do you think that adds up?

Fans of Alien 3 claim that the death of Hicks and Newt were necessary because it darkens the mood and atmosphere of the film, however this statement requires the writers of the movie to place importance on these characters, which wasn't the case.  As many people know, Alien 3 had a messy pre-production where countless ideas for a sequel were vetted and replaced; at one point Aliens were even going to invade Earth, another script had Hicks leading a group of people including Newt to safety while Ripley was in a coma.  Eventually a script was settled upon where Ripley would fight the Alien in a monastery setting (later turned into prison planet Fiorina 161); as the script was reworked, the story moved further in this direction until eventually the characters of Hicks and Newt were not included at all.

It was at this point that the writers of the story realized that their idea of an Alien sequel wasn't congruent with the ending of Aliens as the story required Ripley to be by herself without the characters from the previous film.  As a result, they decided that the cheapest (and most cost-efficient) way to deal with their problem would be to kill these characters offscreen; this way, their problem is wrapped up neatly and they wouldn't have to pay any money to give these characters a proper death scene. 

The new Independence Day movie has a similar problem where Will Smith's character suffers an offscreen death; the reason this happened wasn't to darken the mood of the film or to somehow build an emotional investment on that offscreen incident, rather it was done because 20th Century Fox felt the actor was "too expensive."  The same applies here for Alien 3, the writers didn't kill Hicks and Newt because it would add emotional value to the story, they weren't even in the original script at all.  Regardless of franchise, offscreen deaths are never designed as a way to add meaning but rather as the most convenient way to get rid of unwanted stars.

I don't have a problem with people who like Alien 3, but I do ask that they not romanticize the way the writers discarded Hicks and Newt to be something it's not.  The writers wanted an Alien story they liked (one that was just like the first film), Hicks and Newt interfered with that vision so their lives were tossed in the garbage can like yesterday's newspaper; the fans of Aliens deserved better than that.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:29:26 AMFans of Alien 3 claim that the death of Hicks and Newt were necessary because it darkens the mood and atmosphere of the film.

I've never said they were necessary. Just integral to the movie that opens with that event, which entirely accurate.

That's pretty much the same argument I was referring to earlier, Hick's and Newt's death weren't "integral" at all, in fact they weren't even in the original script.  If their deaths were as important as you say then they would have received actual death scenes; Ripley waking up in her pod as a beam impales strikes Hicks and Newt drowns alive would have had a much more profound impact on the opening, not to mention the funeral.  However, none of this was done because the writers didn't think the characters were important enough to add to a script that never featured them in the first place; they didn't even write the death sequences of these characters, they were only added after the fact when the producers realized viewers would ask questions if their fate wasn't addressed so their deaths were NOT integral to anything at all.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 04:29:44 PMThat's pretty much the same argument I was referring to earlier, Hick's and Newt's death weren't "integral" at all, in fact they weren't even in the original script.

Hicks and newt died in literally every one of the many Alien 3 scripts with the exception of William Gibson's initial effort (which has nothing to do with the movie they eventually made). In many of those scripts, their deaths had literally no impact on the rest of the story, which most certainly is not the case with the movie they eventually made.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 04:29:44 PM...so their deaths were NOT integral to anything at all.

Their deaths are integral to establishing Ripley's entire character for the movie. Her losing them makes her the person she is in the third film and establishes the themes of loss and the loss of hope that are so strong in it. If they were still alive, her entire persona and the tone of the film would be completely different. Necessary? No. Important to the story being told? Absolutely.

Can you forward me to a link saying so?  My source says otherwise but I'd be interested in reading what you've got.  Regardless, every offscreen death in movie history from Will Smith in Independence Day: Resurgence to Sarah Connor in Terminator 3 was never added to add emotional value but to lazily tie off a lose end because the studio either couldn't get a returning character or simply wanted the easiest way of disposing with them.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 04:54:51 PMCan you forward me to a link saying so?

Easier to just read the scripts. They're all on here.

Eric Red has them all turned into Eggs aboard the Sulaco. David Twohy unceremoniously kills everyone off before the story even starts. Vincent Ward has them killed aboard the Sulaco by Aliens before Ripley launches in the escape pod. Finally the shooting script has them die in the EEV crash.

Only Gibson kept the characters alive.

Ok thanks, I'll give them a quick look through before I post a more concrete response.

---

Ok, I'm back, I was only able to find 1 script for Alien 3 on AvPGalaxy and it's the same one the movie is based off of, could you point me in the right direction?  Also, since you were kind enough to share your source with me I feel it's only fair that I do the same with you.

QuoteWhy didn't Michael Biehn reprise his role as Corp. Dwayne Hicks?

It wasn't for want of interest. After the release of Aliens, director James Cameron mentioned the possibility of a third installment in the series, concentrating on the last three survivors: Ripley, Hicks and Newt. Cameron thought it would be interesting to further explore the family dynamic established in the previous film. In interviews, Michael Biehn admitted being interested in reprising his role. Several script treatments were written and rewritten, including one in which Hicks would lead a group of survivors (including Newt) to safety while Ripley was unconscious or in a coma. As the script was reworked, however, the story moved further and further away from this concept, until, eventually, the characters of Hicks and Newt were not included at all. When Biehn learned this, he stated that he was 'heartbroken'. Biehn's agent actually went to the studios when Alien 3 went into preproduction (still under the impression that the Hicks character would, at the very least, make an appearance) to negotiate his participation but learned that the producers didn't wish to make use of Biehn's services. On his way out of the studio, the agent walked past the special effects workshop and saw several artists working on a dummy in Biehn's likeness with a hole in its chest (he wrongly assumed that Hicks was to die from an alien bursting out of him, but this was never the case). Upon hearing the news, Biehn threatened to sue the production for using his likeness without his approval. The studio offered him money but Biehn refused, saying he didn't want to end up as a chestburster victim in the movie, no matter what amount of money he was offered (Biehn joked that he 'was really stupid back then.'). The studio then offered him money to use his picture in one of the movie's scenes, to which he agreed, since the character was never intended to be a victim of the alien anyway. This picture is Biehn's entire appearance in the movie (the impaled Hicks is a dummy that cannot be facially identified). Biehn admitted that this fee for his picture was about the same as his entire salary for Aliens.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103644/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm#.2.1.9 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103644/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm#.2.1.9)

Feel free to analyze it and figure out how it fits into your own argument.  One additional thing I have to say is that I don't think ALL but one Alien 3 script killed off Hicks and Newt like you say; in addition to the script I mentioned previously of Hicks leading Newt and other survivors to safety, I think I remember another version where Newt was left with her grandma while Ripley and Hicks went Alien hunting.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 03, 2016, 04:17:41 PM

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:29:26 AMFans of Alien 3 claim that the death of Hicks and Newt were necessary because it darkens the mood and atmosphere of the film.

I've never said they were necessary. Just integral to the movie that opens with that event, which entirely accurate.

I don't know.  It seems to me that if Ripley landed on Fury 161 directly in her Narcissus shuttle, all by herself, we would still have more or less the same film sans the scenes in the morgue and the cremation.  Once those aspects were taken care of, the film kind of moves on as if those deaths never happened.  I mean Ripley is screwing some random guy within hours or days of arriving on the planet.  The dark tone of the film is because it is a crusty prison facility with a bunch of prisoners who took on religion.

It seems to me like you're trying to dignify those deaths as if they had a greater significance other than that they were just lazy writing or some recondite studios machinations that resulted in Michael Biehn and Carrie Henn not getting cast in the film.  If the characters had so much relevance to the film why not have them take an active role and die somewhere in the middle of the film?  Simple, they didn't really impact the film.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AM
I don't know.  It seems to me that if Ripley landed on Fury 161 directly in her Narcissus shuttle, all by herself, we would still have more or less the same film sans the scenes in the morgue and the cremation.

We would have the exact same film. The morgue and cremation scenes could easily be saved or just as easily replaced. Would people have liked it better, I dunno since I can't turn back time. I'm sure people would have been like, where the f**k is Hicks, Newt and Bishop? So less hate; more confusion.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 04, 2016, 06:42:26 AM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AM
I don't know.  It seems to me that if Ripley landed on Fury 161 directly in her Narcissus shuttle, all by herself, we would still have more or less the same film sans the scenes in the morgue and the cremation.

We would have the exact same film. The morgue and cremation scenes could easily be saved or just as easily replaced. Would people have liked it better, I dunno since I can't turn back time. I'm sure people would have been like, where the f**k is Hicks, Newt and Bishop? So less hate; more confusion.

Now that I think of it, it would make a pretty good fan edit to have the Narcissus land on Fiorina and just pretend Aliens never happened. 

It would be an interesting exercise to excise the funeral and autopsy scenes.  Then digitally replace the EEV shots with the Narcissus.  Then make any other tidy up work and see how 'ALIEN 3' works as a direct sequel to 'ALIEN', completely ignoring the events of 'ALIENS' altogether.

Has anything like that ever been attempted?

-Windebieste.

I've actually thought up this scenario myself, however I'm no video expert so I wouldn't even begin to know how to put together a new edit of the film.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:29:26 AM
Fans of Alien 3 claim that the death of Hicks and Newt were necessary because it darkens the mood and atmosphere of the film, however this statement requires the writers of the movie to place importance on these characters, which wasn't the case.  As many people know, Alien 3 had a messy pre-production where countless ideas for a sequel were vetted and replaced; at one point Aliens were even going to invade Earth, another script had Hicks leading a group of people including Newt to safety while Ripley was in a coma.  Eventually a script was settled upon where Ripley would fight the Alien in a monastery setting (later turned into prison planet Fiorina 161); as the script was reworked, the story moved further in this direction until eventually the characters of Hicks and Newt were not included at all.

It was at this point that the writers of the story realized that their idea of an Alien sequel wasn't congruent with the ending of Aliens as the story required Ripley to be by herself without the characters from the previous film.  As a result, they decided that the cheapest (and most cost-efficient) way to deal with their problem would be to kill these characters offscreen; this way, their problem is wrapped up neatly and they wouldn't have to pay any money to give these characters a proper death scene. 

The new Independence Day movie has a similar problem where Will Smith's character suffers an offscreen death; the reason this happened wasn't to darken the mood of the film or to somehow build an emotional investment on that offscreen incident, rather it was done because 20th Century Fox felt the actor was "too expensive."  The same applies here for Alien 3, the writers didn't kill Hicks and Newt because it would add emotional value to the story, they weren't even in the original script at all.  Regardless of franchise, offscreen deaths are never designed as a way to add meaning but rather as the most convenient way to get rid of unwanted stars.

I don't have a problem with people who like Alien 3, but I do ask that they not romanticize the way the writers discarded Hicks and Newt to be something it's not.  The writers wanted an Alien story they liked (one that was just like the first film), Hicks and Newt interfered with that vision so their lives were tossed in the garbage can like yesterday's newspaper; the fans of Aliens deserved better than that.

Whilst that's a nice write up of your opinions of Hicks and Newt's death...it doesn't answer my question. How does that all stem from "forcing itself to follow too closely in Alien's footsteps which resulted in giving some of the franchise's most beloved characters the ultimate movie humiliation: off-screen deaths."

---

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 05:00:48 PM
Ok thanks, I'll give them a quick look through before I post a more concrete response.

---

Ok, I'm back, I was only able to find 1 script for Alien 3 on AvPGalaxy and it's the same one the movie is based off of, could you point me in the right direction?  Also, since you were kind enough to share your source with me I feel it's only fair that I do the same with you.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/

All there in the downloads section.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 08:25:30 AM

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:29:26 AM
Fans of Alien 3 claim that the death of Hicks and Newt were necessary because it darkens the mood and atmosphere of the film, however this statement requires the writers of the movie to place importance on these characters, which wasn't the case.  As many people know, Alien 3 had a messy pre-production where countless ideas for a sequel were vetted and replaced; at one point Aliens were even going to invade Earth, another script had Hicks leading a group of people including Newt to safety while Ripley was in a coma.  Eventually a script was settled upon where Ripley would fight the Alien in a monastery setting (later turned into prison planet Fiorina 161); as the script was reworked, the story moved further in this direction until eventually the characters of Hicks and Newt were not included at all.

It was at this point that the writers of the story realized that their idea of an Alien sequel wasn't congruent with the ending of Aliens as the story required Ripley to be by herself without the characters from the previous film.  As a result, they decided that the cheapest (and most cost-efficient) way to deal with their problem would be to kill these characters offscreen; this way, their problem is wrapped up neatly and they wouldn't have to pay any money to give these characters a proper death scene. 

The new Independence Day movie has a similar problem where Will Smith's character suffers an offscreen death; the reason this happened wasn't to darken the mood of the film or to somehow build an emotional investment on that offscreen incident, rather it was done because 20th Century Fox felt the actor was "too expensive."  The same applies here for Alien 3, the writers didn't kill Hicks and Newt because it would add emotional value to the story, they weren't even in the original script at all.  Regardless of franchise, offscreen deaths are never designed as a way to add meaning but rather as the most convenient way to get rid of unwanted stars.

I don't have a problem with people who like Alien 3, but I do ask that they not romanticize the way the writers discarded Hicks and Newt to be something it's not.  The writers wanted an Alien story they liked (one that was just like the first film), Hicks and Newt interfered with that vision so their lives were tossed in the garbage can like yesterday's newspaper; the fans of Aliens deserved better than that.

Whilst that's a nice write up of your opinions of Hicks and Newt's death...it doesn't answer my question. How does that all stem from "forcing itself to follow too closely in Alien's footsteps which resulted in giving some of the franchise's most beloved characters the ultimate movie humiliation: off-screen deaths."

Well as I said, multiple scripts were presented that followed Aliens in a manner more reminiscent of James Cameron's film.  Alien 3's story, on the other hand, rests on trying to mimic the first film.  Hicks' and Newt's presence interfered with that and ultimately they were cast aside because of it.

Thanks for the link, I'll check up on the downloads section as soon as I get some free time.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 08:31:41 AM
Well as I said, multiple scripts were presented that followed Aliens in a manner more reminiscent of James Cameron's film.  Alien 3's story, on the other hand, rests on trying to mimic the first film.  Hicks' and Newt's presence interfered with that and ultimately they were cast aside because of it.

As I've said previously, just because both have one Alien doesn't mean it's trying to copy Alien. That is pretty much the only similarity between the two. They're completely different films - especially in tone and narrative.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 08:35:44 AMAs I've said previously, just because both have one Alien doesn't mean it's trying to copy Alien. That is pretty much the only similarity between the two. They're completely different films - especially in tone and narrative.

If anything, Aliens is more of a rip-off of Alien than the third film is. The second movie recycles plot points and even entire scenes from the first. Tonally it's very different, of course, but there's are a lot of elements that are simply copy-pasted in it. Alien 3, by and large, is more original in its storytelling.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AMI don't know.  It seems to me that if Ripley landed on Fury 161 directly in her Narcissus shuttle, all by herself, we would still have more or less the same film sans the scenes in the morgue and the cremation.

Sure. But this isn't a sequel to Alien. It's a sequel to Aliens.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AMIt seems to me like you're trying to dignify those deaths as if they had a greater significance other than that they were just lazy writing or some recondite studios machinations that resulted in Michael Biehn and Carrie Henn not getting cast in the film.

I'm not trying to "dignify" or aggrandise anything. I'm simply pointing out the deaths of Hicks and Newt are an important part of the narrative that was told. The entire first act of the third movie is about Ripley dealing with losing everything to the Alien... again. That loss then sets up her character for the remainder of the film, making her a much more forlorn and closed-off individual than she was at the end of the previous movie. That change in character is the core of Ripley's arc in the film. If ol' Hix n' Noot were still alive, you can bet she would be a very different person in Alien 3.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AMIf the characters had so much relevance to the film why not have them take an active role and die somewhere in the middle of the film?

???

Hicks and Newt had no relevance to the film at all. Their deaths, and their effect on Ripley, did.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:59:52 AM

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 04, 2016, 06:42:26 AM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 06:20:36 AM
I don't know.  It seems to me that if Ripley landed on Fury 161 directly in her Narcissus shuttle, all by herself, we would still have more or less the same film sans the scenes in the morgue and the cremation.

We would have the exact same film. The morgue and cremation scenes could easily be saved or just as easily replaced. Would people have liked it better, I dunno since I can't turn back time. I'm sure people would have been like, where the f**k is Hicks, Newt and Bishop? So less hate; more confusion.

Now that I think of it, it would make a pretty good fan edit to have the Narcissus land on Fiorina and just pretend Aliens never happened.

Yea but we'd be back with bed wetting Ripley instead of Bad Ass Ripley. Although jonesy could have had the run of the prison. Hell Jonsey watching the prisoners being pick off one by one as they try to catch him would have improved the movie.  ::)

Alien³ is different enough that it's not ripping off either prequel. Aside from being another monster movie in space. :P

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Today at 06:20:36 AM
If the characters had so much relevance to the film why not have them take an active role and die somewhere in the middle of the film?



Hicks and Newt had no relevance to the film at all. Their deaths, and their effect on Ripley, did.

That's exactly my point, Hicks and Newt had be relevance to the film.  Here in lies the salient point of differentiation between Han Solo's death and theirs.  On the one hand, you have key characters who are not afforded a proper end in the film, and are killed in the opening credits as if they didn't matter, on the other hand you have Han Solo who was much loved and went with a hero's finish.  This is why the general public mostly dislikes or even disregards Alien 3, while they like the new Star Wars.  So back to the question that started this, will we have fans clamp ring to retcon Han Solo's death?  Probably, but not likely to the extent as with Alien 3.  The one film fulfilled the promise of a good Star Wars sequel (for most people) while the other left a bad taste in most people's mouths.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThat's exactly my point, Hicks and Newt had be relevance to the film.

But they didn't have to be relevant to the film. The first three Alien films (and subsequently Resurrection) are Ripley's story, not theirs.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMHere in lies the salient point of differentiation between Han Solo's death and theirs.

Han Solo has nothing to do with the argument I was making. Someone said the deaths of Hicks and Newt weren't integral to Alien 3, when that couldn't be less true. That's all I was saying.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThis is why the general public mostly dislikes or even disregards Alien 3, while they like the new Star Wars.

The general public disliked the film because it was bleak and depressing, and that's not what they wanted after the high-octane action of Aliens. I'm willing to bet only the hardcore fans really care that much about the fates of two specific supporting characters who had already served their purpose. Even now, flicking through critical reviews online, most don't even seem to mention the deaths of Hicks and Newt among the negative points they single out. Seems the majority of the people who disliked it were more bothered by the overall tone than anything else.

And again you're overlooking the fact someone else pointed out earlier that the film actually did really well outside of America, especially in Europe. For all intents and purposes, it made just as much money as Aliens did, it just did it in different parts of the world.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThe one film fulfilled the promise of a good Star Wars sequel (for most people) while the other left a bad taste in most people's mouths.

I'd argue Star Wars wasn't a "good" sequel at all. Just like Jurassic World, it was really a very bland movie that relied almost entirely on the franchise name and recycled ideas. Take all those away and there was almost nothing left. But because of the title, there was no way it wouldn't make money.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 08:35:44 AM

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 08:31:41 AM
Well as I said, multiple scripts were presented that followed Aliens in a manner more reminiscent of James Cameron's film.  Alien 3's story, on the other hand, rests on trying to mimic the first film.  Hicks' and Newt's presence interfered with that and ultimately they were cast aside because of it.

As I've said previously, just because both have one Alien doesn't mean it's trying to copy Alien. That is pretty much the only similarity between the two. They're completely different films - especially in tone and narrative.

All right, I don't want to mince words over a technicality that the point gets lost along the way; if you say the two films aren't similar, I'll concede to your opinion.  The more important point I'm trying to make, though, is that the presence of Hicks and Newt wasn't a key element in the plot of Alien 3 at all (regardless of its origin).

QuoteThe general public disliked the film because it was bleak and depressing, and that's not what they wanted after the high-octane action of Aliens. I'm willing to bet only the hardcore fans really care that much about the fates of two specific supporting characters who had already served their purpose. Even now, flicking through critical reviews online, most don't even seem to mention the deaths of Hicks and Newt among the negative points they single out. Seems the majority of the people who disliked it were more bothered by the overall tone than anything else.

Regardless of whether or not Hicks' and Newt's deaths offered anything of value to the movie (tone or otherwise), there is still the fact that every single offscreen death utilized in media has never been to add emotional impact at all to a film rather it was always the least expensive way to get rid of a character of importance from previous films.  You're telling us that Alien 3 is the exception to the rule, but if my source is accurate (I've yet to take a thorough look at yours, but assuming they're both true) then Newt and Hicks were never even featured in the original script for the movie we got and their deaths were just added after-the-fact.

Quote
I'd argue Star Wars wasn't a "good" sequel at all. Just like Jurassic World, it was really a very bland movie that relied almost entirely on the franchise name and recycled ideas. Take all those away and there was almost nothing left. But because of the title, there was no way it wouldn't make money.

I pretty much agree with this opinion, if either of those films were released only a couple of years after their predecessors instead of an entire decade they definitely would not have been the box office success they were and people would have more easily seen how much of a rip-off (or disaster) those films actually were.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 04, 2016, 03:23:06 PM

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThat's exactly my point, Hicks and Newt had be relevance to the film.

But they didn't have to be relevant to the film. The first three Alien films (and subsequently Resurrection) are Ripley's story, not theirs.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMHere in lies the salient point of differentiation between Han Solo's death and theirs.

Han Solo has nothing to do with the argument I was making. Someone said the deaths of Hicks and Newt weren't integral to Alien 3, when that couldn't be less true. That's all I was saying.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThis is why the general public mostly dislikes or even disregards Alien 3, while they like the new Star Wars.

The general public disliked the film because it was bleak and depressing, and that's not what they wanted after the high-octane action of Aliens. I'm willing to bet only the hardcore fans really care that much about the fates of two specific supporting characters who had already served their purpose. Even now, flicking through critical reviews online, most don't even seem to mention the deaths of Hicks and Newt among the negative points they single out. Seems the majority of the people who disliked it were more bothered by the overall tone than anything else.

And again you're overlooking the fact someone else pointed out earlier that the film actually did really well outside of America, especially in Europe. For all intents and purposes, it made just as much money as Aliens did, it just did it in different parts of the world.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:27:16 PMThe one film fulfilled the promise of a good Star Wars sequel (for most people) while the other left a bad taste in most people's mouths.

I'd argue Star Wars wasn't a "good" sequel at all. Just like Jurassic World, it was really a very bland movie that relied almost entirely on the franchise name and recycled ideas. Take all those away and there was almost nothing left. But because of the title, there was no way it wouldn't make money.

I'd agree with you on the last bit about Star Wars and Jurassic World doing as well as they did based on the name of the franchise.  They could do no wrong from a numbers perspective, but time will tell how the fans really feel about the films.  Anyway, you are illustrating my argument that the reason for Alien 3's success is basically that it rode the coattails of Aliens.  There was no way it could fail after Aliens did so well.  So those numbers don't mean its a good film, much like the numbers for the new Star Wars can't tell the same story.

This sub-debate started with a comparison of Han Solo's demise to the demise of Newt and Hicks and its tough to say that the latter's deaths were any more than cheap tricks.  They needed the characters out of the way and it seems the fallout from that was an unwanted element that the film was saddled with, whereas the Han Solo death was the hingepoint of the new Star Wars.  Bottom line is, you could tell the tale of Alien 3 without the deaths of the 2 characters at the beginning and it would be basically the tale of Alien.  You couldn't tell the tale of the new Star Wars film without the death of Han Solo being central.  So OT, I know.  Sorry folks...

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 03, 2016, 04:58:58 PM

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 04:54:51 PMCan you forward me to a link saying so?

Easier to just read the scripts. They're all on here.

Eric Red has them all turned into Eggs aboard the Sulaco. David Twohy unceremoniously kills everyone off before the story even starts. Vincent Ward has them killed aboard the Sulaco by Aliens before Ripley launches in the escape pod. Finally the shooting script has them die in the EEV crash.

Only Gibson kept the characters alive.

Okay, the scripts are naturally VERY long and trying to find the information I'm looking for is like looking for a needle in a haystack; if you could, directing me to the correct pages would be very helpful.  Also since you seem to be an expert on the subject, could you list every script that has Hicks and Newt die?  You've already listed 2 out of 10 scripts on this site that has Hicks and Newt die (I didn't find the Vincent Ward script you mentioned :(), that's currently only 1/5 of all available scripts on this site, let alone ever produced.

Just an FYI but all those scripts on the website are all the ones that are readily available online.

The only scripts where Hicks and Newt survive are the 2 William Gibson drafts that were done first. Then no-one survived until Vincent Ward came along and it was Ripley who survived, no-one else. And then it moves on to all the scripts done by Hill and Giler that also see Ripley return. So only 2 scripts had Hicks and Newt survive and they were the very first 2 by William Gibson.

In regards to killing them off - yeah, there's no getting around the fact that when production started on the film they didn't know who would be returning. They didn't even know if Weaver would come back. And at the end of the day, it didn't save them money because Biehn received more for that one picture of Hicks than he did for the entirety of Aliens.

They made it work for the film though. It sets the tone for the film and it greatly informs Ripley's character for most of the film. But they could have done it differently to the same effect - have them lost and adrift in space, for example.

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 05:48:00 PMOkay, the scripts are naturally VERY long and trying to find the information I'm looking for is like looking for a needle in a haystack; if you could, directing me to the correct pages would be very helpful.

I'm afraid I can't, I don't have access to them right now and to be honest I'm not sure they had page numbers at all (and others have been copied into Word from .pdf which likely messed up the page numbering anyway).

Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 05:48:00 PMAlso since you seem to be an expert on the subject, could you list every script that has Hicks and Newt die?  You've already listed 2 out of 10 scripts on this site that has Hicks and Newt die (I didn't find the Vincent Ward script you mentioned :(), that's currently only 1/5 of all available scripts on this site, let alone ever produced.

Well first was William Gibson, who did two very different versions of the same basic story, both featuring Hicks and Bishop as the lead characters and both having Ripley and Newt survive (although Ripley's comatose throughout).

Next was Eric Red, who did one script, in which Ripley, Hicks and newt are all found Eggmorphed aboard the Sulaco in the opening scene - it's not entirely clear if this scene is meant to actually be a real event, or simply a nightmare based on what happened, but either way the implication that they're all dead is the same.

Following Red was David Twohy, who doesn't even mention the characters or the previous movies with the exception of a photo of Ripley labelled "deceased" seen on a monitor in one scene. Thinking back, Hicks and Newt aren't mentioned at all, but again the fact the story is so disassociated (and that Ripley is stated to be dead) made me feel like everyone else was supposed to be dead and disposed of.

Then came Vincent Ward and John Fasano's famous wooden planet script (credited to just Fasano on here), in which Ripley states Hicks and Newt were killed by Aliens aboard the Sulaco before she fled in the escape pod.

That accounts for the first five Alien 3 scripts on this site. The final five are all various drafts of the shooting script, which basically just merged Ward's story with the prison setting from Twohy's script. These have differences here and there, but the story is basically the same as the final film in each one and crucially they all have Hicks and Newt die in the EEV crash right at the start.

EDIT: The Corporal basically just beat me to it :)

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2016, 09:19:12 AMBut they could have done it differently to the same effect - have them lost and adrift in space, for example.

I'm not sure I actually agree with that. It's the fact Ripley definitively knows they're dead that moulds her character. If there was any chance they weren't dead, it would probably change her outlook.

Whenever horror movies kill off main characters at the beginning of the story; it's less for plot value and more often for shock value, which is actually rather cheap.  The movies that do this that I can remember are The Grudge (2 & 3), Cabin Fever 2, and Hostel 2.  The Outbreak and Hostel series were both started by Eli Roth and their characterization is nothing except sickening gore and no redeeming story whatsoever.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 05, 2016, 09:19:46 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2016, 09:19:12 AMBut they could have done it differently to the same effect - have them lost and adrift in space, for example.

I'm not sure I actually agree with that. It's the fact Ripley definitively knows they're dead that moulds her character. If there was any chance they weren't dead, it would probably change her outlook.

Alan Dean Foster, author of the novelization of Alien 1-3, wanted to keep Newt alive but trapped in a damage hyperspace capsule where it would be unsafe to wake her until technology had evolved sufficiently enough to release her safely.  This would give Ripley a cause to fight for and a reason for sacrificing herself at the end; doing so would give Newt a brighter future to wake up to rather than doing it for the human race (where she says in Aliens that she didn't know which species was worse, the Aliens or us).  In this context, I'd say killing Newt off wasn't the best choice they could have made for the movie.

So um, yeah, that Alien 5 sure seems like its going to take a lot longer to gestate now that we have Alien: Covenant in the works...  Any idea ho many scripts it took to get where we are today with the Covenant script?

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 06, 2016, 12:38:31 AM
So um, yeah, that Alien 5 sure seems like its going to take a lot longer to gestate now that we have Alien: Covenant in the works...  Any idea ho many scripts it took to get where we are today with the Covenant script?

Back in October 2014, the "Prometheus 2" script was already at 15 drafts. Goodness knows how many revisions it's had since. But not really that unusual for a Hollywood movie though.

We only know of one Alien 5 script draft that has been completed so far.