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Ridley Scott has been talking a little more about his upcoming Prometheus sequel, Alien: Covenant, at a press conference in Sydney and whilst some of the details are something he’s said before there’s actually quite a lot of new interesting information in this report from The Hollywood Reporter including confirmation of a new trilogy of films starting with Alien: Covenant:

“Its a very complex story. Its an evolution of what I first did with Prometheus 1," he said of the new film, which tells the story of the crew of the colony ship Covenant, who discover what they think is an uncharted paradise but is actually a dark, dangerous world, whose sole inhabitant is the synthetic David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

“Prometheus 1 was borne out of my frustration that on Alien 1 in 1979 – I only did one as I don’t normally do sequels. I was amazed that in the 3 that followed  that no-one asked the question “why the Alien, who made it and why?” Very basic questions. So I came up with the notion of Prometheus 1, which starts to indicate who might have made it and where it came from.

So I'm now going to the next one, which is the next evolution directly connected with the first one, which was this Shaw, when he replaced Michael Fassbender in two pieces and we'll kind of pick it up there and it will evolve. When that's finished there'll be another one and then another one which will gradually drive into the back entrance of the film in 1979.”

At the press conference Ridley Scott also confirmed that shooting of Alien: Covenant would commence in March 2016 with Michael Fassbender arriving in Sydney in mid-March for a 16 week shoot. Scott also confirms that Noomi Rapace’s Shaw will be in Alien: Covenant, albeit briefly: “Other casting hasn't been confirmed, although Scott did say that Prometheus 1 star Noomi Rapace will only appear briefly in Covenant.”

He also talked a little about shooting the film in both studio shoots and on location: “Shooting will be  a mix of location and studio shoots with location requiting "monumental forest and monumental rock and the rest will be in the studio with fairly formidable CGI. The Martian was made for the most part 94 pecent in a Budapest studio. With green screen I now can't tell what was studio and what was shot in Wadi Rum.”

Scott also spoke about the notion of filming the other Prometheus sequels in Australia as well, moving away from England and Pinewood Studios where he shot the original Alien and Prometheus. Thanks to Willie Goldman for the news.

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Wait the article suggests that Alien covenant is to be the start of a trilogy? No Scott, NO, Prometheus was the start of this Trilogy!

Follow up on what you've set up in Prometheus to continue and further expand and explore in Alien Covenant.

Then conclude the series of events established with your 3rd final film that connects to the events of Alien, whether that's approached as a flash black to millions of years ago where we see the Engineer/Space Jockey fly his ship only for him to succumb to a chestburster leading him to crash on LV-426. On the other hand Prometheus established that the Engineer bio suit has an exoskeleton quality thus "NOT MAKING IT FOSSILIZED AS DALLAS FROM ALIEN HAD MISTAKEN IT TO BE." 

STOP with your bullshit "Oh I wasn't 100% satisfied with Prometheus being the jumping off point of this Trilogy but this next installment shall Truly begin the Trilogy."

STOP IT SCOTT, STOP TRYING TO GO HOBBIT UNNECESSARY FRANCHISE. Alien and Aliens are phenomenal achievements, but they're Sc-Fi/Thriller/Horror/Action Monster movies, the franchise has a certain appeal, the audience doesn't equal that of the more recent block buster films. That's probably why he's making multiple films, more movies more money to be made with this cash cow.

It is however impressive that due to the hype of what people thought they were getting with Prometheus that the movie grossed 400 million, over quarter of a billion, but its not something easily repeated, I doubt that Alien Covenant will quite gross that amount as Prometheus, now that the fans who felt burned out by Prometheus will probably be unwilling to give this sequel a chance it won't be a big of a box office.

And making a film with an incomplete narrative because your already setting up a sequel leaves us dissatisfied. Just focus on crafting a good film and let us the audience and fans demand more installments!

STOP EXPLOITING THE SERIES WITH ENDLESS AMOUNT OF PREQUELS!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2015, 07:27:46 AM"So I'm now going to the next one, which is the next evolution directly connected with the first one, which was this Shaw, when he replaced Michael Fassbender in two pieces and we'll kind of pick it up there and it will evolve."

In the words of the Virgin Mary... Come again?

I am not surprised that this will be a trilogy.  Scott had already hinted that there would be 2, maybe 3 sequels in the works.   These will all no doubt fit in between 'Prometheus' and 'ALIEN'. 

This will be the first time any 'ALIEN' movies have ever been planned to be more than just a single film.  It will be interesting to see how this trilogy bridges the gap between the 2012 movie and the original one from 1979.  It's good to see that some kind of over arching intention with 3 movies is being planned rather than linking together the piecemeal iterations we have seen released in the past. 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all pans out.

-Windebieste.

4 month+ is a long shoot and lots of green screen.... This is going to be a big film. Its sounding good so far.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 27, 2015, 09:09:02 AM
This will be the first time any 'ALIEN' movies have ever been planned to be more than just a single film.  It will be interesting to see how this trilogy bridges the gap between the 2012 movie and the original one from 1979.  It's good to see that some kind of over arching intention with 3 movies is being planned rather than linking together the piecemeal iterations we have seen released in the past. 

I am looking forward to seeing how this all pans out.

This is the bit that interests me most. Prometheus was a complete mess. No denying that. I was worried about how the prequel trilogy would pan out with that being a part of it. I'm more confident and interested in seeing Covenant as the start of the new series. Hopefully they've actually found and planned an actual direction this time instead of just clusterf**king it.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 27, 2015, 08:55:10 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2015, 07:27:46 AM"So I'm now going to the next one, which is the next evolution directly connected with the first one, which was this Shaw, when he replaced Michael Fassbender in two pieces and we'll kind of pick it up there and it will evolve."

In the words of the Virgin Mary... Come again?

Yeah. No idea either.

Is Prometheus like the Hobbit was to the LOrd of the rings trilogy ??

In the context that once all three of these new films are released, 'Prometheus' will end being considered as a Prelude to the greater drama of the new 'ALIEN' trilogy? 

Yeah.  That's my thinking, too.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 27, 2015, 10:32:47 AM
In the context that once all three of these new films are released, 'Prometheus' will end being considered as a Prelude to the greater drama of the new 'ALIEN' trilogy? 

Yeah.  That's my thinking, too.

-Windebieste.

They must stick with it now !! I still believe !!

I am hyped! A whole new trilogy! And somewhere in between another Aliens with a new Pulse Rifle!

Now- that that is settled- whats with the Predator? You got the Books and Comics rolling- gimme some Bad Ass Predator Duel Hunting Horror Survival Movie!

And then you will get all my money!

Man does Google translate have a Ridley Scott algorithm? I'm pretty sure he means the sequel A:C will take place directly after Prometheus and that Shaw will repair David and the story starts from there. Never the less I am thrilled as can be that we're getting a trilogy out of this book ended by Prometheus and Alien.

The down side of this is that if the numbers for Alien Covenant don't hold up to what they hope we may not get the other sequels  >:(  I hate when they plan ahead for a series/franchises outline only for them to give up when the results aren't enough!

I can speak English and fluent Drunkenese, but I've got no clue what Ridley just said lmao

Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Nov 27, 2015, 12:40:13 PM
I can speak English and fluent Drunkenese, but I've got no clue what Ridley just said lmao

I am seriously confused by what he just said as well LOL!

"Which was this Shaw, when he replaced Michael Fassbender" what?

Could just be an error from whoever transcribed it though.

That could be the case too. XD I doubt Ridley would be high as hell when doing interviews.

Funny how around 70% of the people who come on this website prefer the action packed dumbed down cannon fodder stick em up Aliens instead of the horror side of Alien...Must be Predator fans mostly.

Not really. There's a reasonable diversity of opinions on the matter. Both your posts so far have been directed with some hostility towards fans who like the action of Aliens, I'd suggest you tone down that attitude please. We're all fans here and the series has very different films. People will like different films in them.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2015, 09:22:30 AM
This is the bit that interests me most. Prometheus was a complete mess. No denying that. I was worried about how the prequel trilogy would pan out with that being a part of it. I'm more confident and interested in seeing Covenant as the start of the new series. Hopefully they've actually found and planned an actual direction this time instead of just clusterf**king it.

You know, I'd be quite happy if they basically just ignore whatever happened in Prometheus and start afresh with a new trilogy. By all means keep David but don't reference any of the events in Prometheus. Make it so that you can watch Alien: Covenant (and it's sequels) without needing to watch Prometheus beforehand.

Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Nov 27, 2015, 02:42:34 PM
That could be the case too. XD I doubt Ridley would be high as hell when doing interviews.

Sometimes he is a little bit tiddly though. He actually owns a vineyard and loves his Vodka as well.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
You know, I'd be quite happy if they basically just ignore whatever happened in Prometheus and start afresh with a new trilogy. By all means keep David but don't reference any of the events in Prometheus. Make it so that you can watch Alien: Covenant (and it's sequels) without needing to watch Prometheus beforehand.

To be fair to them they probably could get away with that. It depends where they're going with this whole evolution of the Alien thing. If they try to tie it into the mess that was Prometheus then maybe not.

I still feel like Shaw's fate is going to play a part in Covenant though.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:36:23 PMMake it so that you can watch Alien: Covenant (and it's sequels) without needing to watch Prometheus beforehand.

Exactly what Aliens and Alien 3 did.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 27, 2015, 03:42:49 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:36:23 PMMake it so that you can watch Alien: Covenant (and it's sequels) without needing to watch Prometheus beforehand.

Exactly what Aliens and Alien 3 did.

True enough. They built on the previous entry and provided the exposition without being bogged down.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 27, 2015, 03:42:49 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:36:23 PMMake it so that you can watch Alien: Covenant (and it's sequels) without needing to watch Prometheus beforehand.

Exactly what Aliens and Alien 3 did.

Not really no. If you were to watch Alien 3 without having seen Alien or Aliens you'd still have lots of questions regarding Ripley and her previous encounters with the beast. How did she end up on the Sulaco with a child, a marine and half-a-droid? Why is she so distressed about their deaths? How come she knows so much about the beast? Aliens also heavily references the events in Alien.

I'm talking about pretending Prometheus never happened.

I'm at a bit of a loss.  Just posting here so I get updates on this thread.  If somebody finds a way to decipher what Ridley just said, let me know.  David himself couldn't make out full sense here.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:51:39 PMNot really no. If you were to watch Alien 3 without having seen Alien or Aliens you'd still have lots of questions regarding Ripley and her previous encounters with the beast. How did she end up on the Sulaco with a child, a marine and half-a-droid? Why is she so distressed about their deaths? How come she knows so much about the beast? Aliens also heavily references the events in Alien.

Not at all. Case in point - Alien 3 was the first one I saw, quite a long time before the others, and it still made sense all by itself. Sure, you might get more out of it if you've seen the previous movies, but it's not necessary to enjoy the film. Everything that's really important - that Ripley cared about Hicks and Newt, that they had history, that she's met this Alien before, and that it's very, very bad - is clearly laid out in the first act of the film.

Same with Aliens, although that goes even further by literally summarising the plot of the preceding film.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 27, 2015, 03:58:07 PM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 03:51:39 PMNot really no. If you were to watch Alien 3 without having seen Alien or Aliens you'd still have lots of questions regarding Ripley and her previous encounters with the beast. How did she end up on the Sulaco with a child, a marine and half-a-droid? Why is she so distressed about their deaths? How come she knows so much about the beast? Aliens also heavily references the events in Alien.

Not at all. Case in point - Alien 3 was the first one I saw, quite a long time before the others, and it still made sense all by itself. Sure, you might get more out of it if you've seen the previous movies, but it's not necessary to enjoy the film. Everything that's really important - that Ripley cared about Hicks and Newt, that they had history, that she's met this Alien before, and that it's very, very bad - is clearly laid out in the first act of the film.

Same with Aliens, although that goes even further by literally summarising the plot of the preceding film.

I think if you had to watch Alien 3 it would actually be preferable to watch it first before the other films.  Aliens creates a lot of "baggage" that builds you up for something that Alien 3 never delivers.  If you watch Alien 3 first, you don't have all those expectations with you and hence you can enjoy Alien 3 completely on its own merits.  On a side note, considering that Aliens is your first Alien experience, it probably explains a lot why you don't appear to have a strong connection to Hicks and Newt as some others might.  Understandable.  Anyway, I expect that the experience of seeing Alien 3 was a lot more enjoyable for you than for a lot of the other fans who were familiar with the first 2 films prior to seeing Alien 3.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 27, 2015, 03:58:07 PM
Not at all. Case in point - Alien 3 was the first one I saw, quite a long time before the others, and it still made sense all by itself. Sure, you might get more out of it if you've seen the previous movies, but it's not necessary to enjoy the film. Everything that's really important - that Ripley cared about Hicks and Newt, that they had history, that she's met this Alien before, and that it's very, very bad - is clearly laid out in the first act of the film.

Same with Aliens, although that goes even further by literally summarising the plot of the preceding film.

I know what you're saying but the fact remains, Aliens and Alien 3 both reference (and acknowledges) the film/s before them. You might not have needed to watch the previous film/s to enjoy or understand Aliens and Alien 3 but they are still connected to each other.

I'm basically talking about a kind of retcon/remake here, ignoring Prometheus to such an extent that it cannot really be considered part of the new series anymore.

David's inclusion would mean you can't. His comes with a lot of baggage.

Making it a trilogy seems fine by me, although I was expecting a standalone movie, or at most dependent on Prometheus only. But if it ends with a cliffhanger, I swear ...

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 27, 2015, 04:09:41 PMOn a side note, considering that Aliens is your first Alien experience, it probably explains a lot why you don't appear to have a strong connection to Hicks and Newt as some others might.

Aliens was actually the last Alien film I saw. It's also my favourite. And I loved those characters. Hicks was freaking awesome. I just don't wanna see a daft retcon because someone's still not over the fact they're dead twenty-five years later.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 04:11:29 PMI know what you're saying but the fact remains, Aliens and Alien 3 both reference (and acknowledges) the film/s before them. You might not have needed to watch the previous film/s to enjoy or understand Aliens and Alien 3 but they are still connected to each other.

I never said they weren't connected. I just said you don't need to have seen the preceding movie to understand and enjoy two or three. The relevant plot points are all laid out. It's not like The Lord of the Rings where you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
David's inclusion would mean you can't. His comes with a lot of baggage.

His head is certainly in the baggage!  :P

And another interesting new thing:

QuoteShooting will be a mix of location and studio shoots with location requiting "monumental forest and monumental rock and the rest will be in the studio with fairly formidable CGI.

So looks like Paradise will literally be a .... paradise? Wonder if they'll be shooting in the Gondwana rain-forests not far from Sydney? Certainly very impressive and monumental. It also served as inspiration for the CGI forests seen in Avatar IIRC.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.audiencemedia.com%2Fvar%2Fphotoreview%2Fstorage%2Fimages%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fgondwana-20rainforest-20-e2-80-93-20alistair-20paton_m%2F893-1-eng-GB%2Fgondwana-20rainforest-20-e2-80-93-20alistair-20paton_m_gallery_view.jpg&hash=cacbc91b4aad64b945a296289b478742c0036b8c)

I once pointed out that this is basically turning out to be Scott's Avatar in terms of the number of films being made but it looks like there may be more literal overtones here...

I think this all sounds great. Scott and fantasy-scenery is certifiable. Plus he is coming off of The Martian, with what I'll bet will be much of the same creative team; the success of which will likely afford him a certain degree of carte-blanche, creatively speaking.

I was listening to one of the Podcasts recently and want to reiterate and agree with Corporal Hicks about something here:

I think (as much as I understand why people like practical effects) a practical-sets  heavy, Alien film with a Homeworld-setting, is a waste of a huge opportunity. I hope they utilize the Giger-landscapes and designs that FOX paid to own the rights to years ago, and use all this Green screen to scale all of that stuff way up, and they do NOT waste this opportunity! Who doesn't want to see a Giger-landscape heavy homeworld?! The promise of that has been in the back of fans minds for decades. The success of The Martian prolly affords Scott the opportunity budget-wise here. Fingers crossed that we get to see SOME of that at least.

I also really hope with all of these writers and with the official announcement of a complete Trilogy, that they are taking steps to develop where the next two films are headed, if not just outright mapping it out by giving it the full treatment.

---

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 27, 2015, 05:28:45 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
David's inclusion would mean you can't. His comes with a lot of baggage.

His head is certainly in the baggage!  :P

And another interesting new thing:

QuoteShooting will be a mix of location and studio shoots with location requiting "monumental forest and monumental rock and the rest will be in the studio with fairly formidable CGI.

So looks like Paradise will literally be a .... paradise? Wonder if they'll be shooting in the Gondwana rain-forests not far from Sydney? Certainly very impressive and monumental. It also served as inspiration for the CGI forests seen in Avatar IIRC.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.audiencemedia.com%2Fvar%2Fphotoreview%2Fstorage%2Fimages%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fgondwana-20rainforest-20-e2-80-93-20alistair-20paton_m%2F893-1-eng-GB%2Fgondwana-20rainforest-20-e2-80-93-20alistair-20paton_m_gallery_view.jpg&hash=cacbc91b4aad64b945a296289b478742c0036b8c)

Sydney is ideally located for access various types of terrain.

While I'm disappointed that Shaw is being sidelined, I'm overall very excited.  It seems like Ridley more and more has a cohesive narrative and vision, which will make the story more focused than in Prometheus.

There's no reason to believe that Shaw has been 'sidelined'.  Scott is the movie industry's Biggest Troll.  Hell, he's already had us believe this movie was called something else.  Twice.  Twice he's done that.

I'd be very surprised if Noomi doesn't reprise her role.   Why should Scott tell us anything about her in this movie?  I'd rather it be kept under wraps until release, anyway. 

It's like Mark Hamill's role in Star Wars VII.  You tell me what it will be.  We know he's in it and likely to be playing Luke again; but Abrams is holding those cards close to his chest.  Scott is doing something similar with Noomi, I'd say.

In this Age of Internet Leaks, film makers have to do so.  Otherwise audiences already know about movie's details months ahead of its release.  I'm happy for Scott to withhold such information. 

Actually, the more he does so, then it's for the better, I say.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 28, 2015, 03:29:06 AM
There's no reason to believe that Shaw has been 'sidelined'.  Scott is the movie industry's Biggest Troll.  Hell, he's already had us believe this movie was called something else.  Twice.  Twice he's done that.

I'd be very surprised if Noomi doesn't reprise her role.   Why should Scott tell us anything about her in this movie?  I'd rather it be kept under wraps until release, anyway. 

It's like Mark Hamill's role in Star Wars VII.  You tell me what it will be.  We know he's in it and likely to be playing Luke again; but Abrams is holding those cards close to his chest.  Scott is doing something similar with Noomi, I'd say.

In this Age of Internet Leaks, film makers have to do so.  Otherwise audiences already know about movie's details months ahead of its release.  I'm happy for Scott to withhold such information. 

Actually, the more he does so, then it's for the better, I say.

-Windebieste.

Well according to The Hollywood Reporter, Shaw will have a minor role. Ridley seems to just babble on and on at press conferences and in interviews without really caring about what he's giving up.

I'm guessing Shaw WILL have a minor role. It seems like they are trying to go against what didn't work in the first film and rectify it in Covenant. Hence them making it more Alien-y and reducing the role of silly Shaw while doubling up on their Fassbender.

Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Nov 27, 2015, 12:38:41 PM
The down side of this is that if the numbers for Alien Covenant don't hold up to what they hope we may not get the other sequels  >:(  I hate when they plan ahead for a series/franchises outline only for them to give up when the results aren't enough!

This....

I would feel a lot better if they filmed all three movies concurrently.

It wouldn't be too difficult to ignore the events of Prometheus.

1) almost everyone is dead
2) no real answers were given to the biggest questions


All David would need to say.  "I was on a previous mission that discovered an outpost to this species.  Everyone died and I was damaged, but I was able to learn their technology and fly a ship here."

You got everything you need to know.

Ridley Scott yesterday, inside one of the huge soundstages where Alien: Covenant will be filmed.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUzJrShVEAAGBf2.jpg:large)

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Nov 28, 2015, 01:12:21 PM
It wouldn't be too difficult to ignore the events of Prometheus.

1) almost everyone is dead
2) no real answers were given to the biggest questions

All David would need to say.  "I was on a previous mission that discovered an outpost to this species.  Everyone died and I was damaged, but I was able to learn their technology and fly a ship here."

You got everything you need to know.

Yep, the less ties it has to Prometheus the better IMO. The casual movie-goer will be reluctant to watch it if they didn't see Prometheus and think they will get left behind with regards to the story. Those that did watch Prometheus will think it will just be more of the same - bad writing, unlikable dumbass characters, unresolved plot points etc.

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Nov 28, 2015, 01:12:21 PM

Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Nov 27, 2015, 12:38:41 PM
The down side of this is that if the numbers for Alien Covenant don't hold up to what they hope we may not get the other sequels  >:(  I hate when they plan ahead for a series/franchises outline only for them to give up when the results aren't enough!

This....

I would feel a lot better if they filmed all three movies concurrently.

It wouldn't be too difficult to ignore the events of Prometheus.

1) almost everyone is dead
2) no real answers were given to the biggest questions


All David would need to say.  "I was on a previous mission that discovered an outpost to this species.  Everyone died and I was damaged, but I was able to learn their technology and fly a ship here."

You got everything you need to know.

Haahha it is almost like a reboot in some ways.
Yeah if Ridley wants to do 3 sequels it most likely means we're going to get another half baked thin story.

There's one thing I'm finding very interesting and standing out here that some people appear to either ignore or be unaware of.  This upcoming film is being labeled as the first part of a Trilogy of new 'ALIEN' films.  While it still has it's associations with 'Prometheus', without being completely divorced from it, it's largely removed from being solely a series of sequels to that movie.  Continuing to think of it as just a sequel to 'Prometheus' should almost be considered obsolete.   Especially when we know just about nothing regarding them.

I totally get that content from 'Prometheus' is the springboard for this upcoming series; but I am hoping that this new Trilogy will embrace the ambiance of Scott's 1979 movie more fully.  The  vibe I am getting here is that 'Prometheus' is relevant as a Prologue of sorts - but its not the focus of this Trilogy.   Scott has told us more about how these new films are intended to directly dovetail into 'ALIEN' as a precursor Trilogy and I'm finding he's placing more emphasis on that plot development than anything 'Prometheus' related.

After all, the first upcoming movie is called 'ALIEN: Covenant'.  No mention of 'Prometheus' in the title any longer.  We are getting a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy; not the final parts of a 'Prometheus' Quartet.  There is a difference.

Basically, it's too premature to make claims that these movies are 'half baked' solely on their association with the 2012 movie.  For a start, we might be best to stop thinking of it as a 'Prometheus' movie and be more receptive of the important moniker change it has been given and appreciate it as a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy where 'Prometheus' was the Prologue.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 28, 2015, 11:45:52 PM
There's one thing I'm finding very interesting and standing out here that some people appear to either ignore or be unaware of.  This upcoming film is being labeled as the first part of a Trilogy of new 'ALIEN' films.  While it still has it's associations with 'Prometheus', without being completely divorced from it, it's largely removed from being solely a series of sequels to that movie.  Continuing to think of it as just a sequel to 'Prometheus' should almost be considered obsolete.   Especially when we know just about nothing regarding them.

I totally get that content from 'Prometheus' is the springboard for this upcoming series; but I am hoping that this new Trilogy will embrace the ambiance of Scott's 1979 movie more fully.  The  vibe I am getting here is that 'Prometheus' is relevant as a Prologue of sorts - but its not the focus of this Trilogy.   Scott has told us more about how these new films are intended to directly dovetail into 'ALIEN' as a precursor Trilogy and I'm finding he's placing more emphasis on that plot development than anything 'Prometheus' related.

After all, the first upcoming movie is called 'ALIEN: Covenant'.  No mention of 'Prometheus' in the title any longer.  We are getting a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy; not the final parts of a 'Prometheus' Quartet.  There is a difference.

Basically, it's too premature to make claims that these movies are 'half baked' solely on their association with the 2012 movie.  For a start, we might be best to stop thinking of it as a 'Prometheus' movie and be more receptive of the important moniker change it has been given and appreciate it as a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy where 'Prometheus' was the Prologue.

-Windebieste.

Whats strange is this sorta bookended thing with two trilogies, one with Prometheus as a bookend, and one with Resurrection.
Ive always wanted A:R to be the jumping off point for a series, which in this day in age, isn't an impossibility.

I think this new trilogy is going to be a lot grander, maybe. Like the story isn't just gonna be about stopping this creature from getting to Earth, but be expanded to have a much bigger story to tell IE; Engineers vrs Gods. Ridley seems to want to tell us what was going on ages ago with ancient alien races. But who knows... Have to wait and see!
I just hope they have enough sense to take the opp to do A5 after this, still.

Covenant doesn't need to go into a lot of detail regarding the Prometheus mission, but I would consider it a kick in the teeth to the people who supported Prometheus if the main questions remain unanswered.

Why did the Engineers create and cultivate human civilization?

Was the black goo bombing always part of the plan?  Or was it something that the Engineers decided later?

While it should be its own thing, separating itself completely from Prometheus makes little sense, especially if Fassbender is going to have a more central role.  People don't just fly around in giant horseshoes with robot heads for companions for no reason at all.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Nov 29, 2015, 01:57:23 AM
While it should be its own thing, separating itself completely from Prometheus makes little sense, especially if Fassbender is going to have a more central role.  People don't just fly around in giant horseshoes with robot heads for companions for no reason at all.

Im taking all that with a grain of salt. To me, this is Fox saying, ALIEN needs to be in the title so fans know what this is and there is less confusion, and there needs to be a xeno. This all goes back to the press releases for Prometheus and how it was a prequel and then wasnt etc etc... What Scott is saying now, Im thinking is prolly just doing what the studio wants and this is still very much a Prometheus sequel.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 28, 2015, 11:45:52 PM
There's one thing I'm finding very interesting and standing out here that some people appear to either ignore or be unaware of.  This upcoming film is being labeled as the first part of a Trilogy of new 'ALIEN' films.  While it still has it's associations with 'Prometheus', without being completely divorced from it, it's largely removed from being solely a series of sequels to that movie.  Continuing to think of it as just a sequel to 'Prometheus' should almost be considered obsolete.   Especially when we know just about nothing regarding them.

I totally get that content from 'Prometheus' is the springboard for this upcoming series; but I am hoping that this new Trilogy will embrace the ambiance of Scott's 1979 movie more fully.  The  vibe I am getting here is that 'Prometheus' is relevant as a Prologue of sorts - but its not the focus of this Trilogy.   Scott has told us more about how these new films are intended to directly dovetail into 'ALIEN' as a precursor Trilogy and I'm finding he's placing more emphasis on that plot development than anything 'Prometheus' related.

After all, the first upcoming movie is called 'ALIEN: Covenant'.  No mention of 'Prometheus' in the title any longer.  We are getting a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy; not the final parts of a 'Prometheus' Quartet.  There is a difference.

Basically, it's too premature to make claims that these movies are 'half baked' solely on their association with the 2012 movie.  For a start, we might be best to stop thinking of it as a 'Prometheus' movie and be more receptive of the important moniker change it has been given and appreciate it as a new 'ALIEN' Trilogy where 'Prometheus' was the Prologue.

-Windebieste.

It's actually been labelled the 2nd part of prequel trilogy in the official synopsis from the studio. Scott is just talking his usual nonsense.

I was amazed that in the 3 that followed  that no-one asked the question "why the Alien, who made it and why? - Perhaps everybody realized it was a naturally occurring life form.

More like an assumption made by the Directors of the sequels and fans themselves, I'd say.  There's nothing ever mentioned in any of the movies that suggests that the Alien was the result of natural evolutionary process.

No one ever asked Scott about it, I guess.  After all, this thing was his in the first place and it does not look natural:

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-VdtezdPbGTI%2FUyX2wj98h3I%2FAAAAAAAA264%2FkmM2OubrfW0%2Fs1600%2Falien%2B666.jpg&hash=94e18ece37d757f848875c9e6e94d6d564a90bd2)

That thing looks manufactured rather than the result of a natural process to me.

I'm happy to see Scott address how the Creature was 'made'.   I'm hoping he doesn't mess things up.  Fingers crossed and anxiously awaiting more information about these movies.

I'm happy to see the origin of the Alien explained if Scott is the one to do it.  I'd hate to entrust this difficult task to anyone else.  There's a whole series of missing links that he could explore that would dovetail into what he intends to do with these movies.   Why does its larval stage fit neatly upon a Human face with its long appendages wrapped around its victim's head?  Why is the embryo so compatible with a human host?  Why is the adult bipedal and possesses the basic morphology of a human being..?  From what we have seen in 'Prometheus' - and what Scott has hinted at - it certainly does look like the Alien was a manufactured bio-weapon purposefully constructed to eradicate Humans.  BUT WHY? 

There are more important questions that Scott is posing to us.   Why would someone make it such a personal affront to Humanity?  Was it really the Engineers who made this thing to exterminate us  ... and why Us?  Why make it so personal?  What have we done to deserve this thing cast upon us?  WHY..???

This is the intriguing path I am hoping that Scott hopes to take us down if this is his intention to explain the Alien's purpose and its relationship to us.  I'm thinking this is something Scott has spent quite some time thinking about and hopefully he will deliver answers that don't end in a massive face palm. 

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 29, 2015, 10:38:00 PM

I'm happy to see Scott address how the Creature was 'made'.   I'm hoping he doesn't mess things up.  Fingers crossed and anxiously awaiting more information about these movies.

I'm happy to see the origin of the Alien explained if Scott is the one to do it.  I'd hate to entrust this difficult task to anyone else.  There's a whole series of missing links that he could explore that would dovetail into what he intends to do with these movies.   Why does its larval stage fit neatly upon a Human face with its long appendages wrapped around its victim's head?  Why is the embryo so compatible with a human host?  Why is the adult bipedal and possesses the basic morphology of a human being..?  From what we have seen in 'Prometheus' - and what Scott has hinted at - it certainly does look like the Alien was a manufactured bio-weapon purposefully constructed to eradicate Humans.  BUT WHY? 

There are more important questions that Scott is posing to us.   Why would someone make it such a personal affront to Humanity?  Was it really the Engineers who made this thing to exterminate us  ... and why Us?  Why make it so personal?  What have we done to deserve this thing cast upon us?  WHY..???

This is the intriguing path I am hoping that Scott hopes to take us down if this is his intention to explain the Alien's purpose and its relationship to us.  I'm thinking this is something Scott has spent quite some time thinking about and hopefully he will deliver answers that don't end in a massive face palm. 

-Windebieste.

Initially the ALIEN was meant to be an creature indigenous to LV446.  That concept was tossed out when the pyramid idea was thrown away due to cost considerations.  I think it's safe to say that the Xeno origin story has been fluid for decades, and probably hasn't nailed down until recently.  Hell, I'm not even sure Ridley had any idea about the Xeno origin when he did Prometheus.

Keeping Prometheus in mind, I don't think the Xeno was made to destroy humans.  I'm coming at it from another direction.  I think they were created from humans which would explain their biological morphology.

What do we know.

1) Engineers created life on earth, and humans are a direct biological offspring.

Perhaps the real target of the Xeno is a group of Engineers.

2) Engineers visited earth over the millennia in order to give humans biological as well as technological upgrades.  WHY?

My theory here is that they wanted humans to achieve a specific level of development and a large enough population density.  The equivalent of waiting for the fruit to grow and ripen before harvest.

3) What was the purpose of the black goo? 

Humans were always scheduled for a dose of black goo at a specific point of development.  We were never meant to be left to our own devices and develop space travel.

That's a very fair appraisal of the situation and  I agree.   I'm sure no one has seriously addressed the Alien's origin until Scott and Co.  First tackled the notion when 'Prometheus' was first called 'ALIEN: Origins'.  Then, of course, a lot of things changed.  They always do.  Then they get recycled, like the reappearance of the pyramid concept from the early 'ALIEN' scripts turns up again in 'Prometheus'.

In this regard, I sometimes think 'Prometheus' resembles what 'ALIEN' could have been had such elements been included.   

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Nov 30, 2015, 12:54:05 AM
Humans were always scheduled for a dose of black goo at a specific point of development.  We were never meant to be left to our own devices and develop space travel.

I think this statement is the key to everything this series represents.  My own pet theory is that the Derelict didn't crash on Acheron.  It was deliberately placed there.  As a bait in the form of a warning, set to trap Humans once we became a space faring species.   The derelict may turn out to be the Galaxy's great mouse trap, set to eradicate out of control vermin.  Namely, Us.

Kind of like the inverse of the monolith found on the Moon during the events depicted in '2001 - A Space Odyssey'.  Except the purpose of the derelict is much more malign and it was intended to keep us away from that particular region of space - or suffer the consequences for ignoring the 'warning' message. 

I really like what Scott is doing here.  I found 'Prometheus' to be a very uneven movie, but it laid the foundation for an extremely intriguing premise that I am happy to watch unfold during the next few years.  I suspect this is going to be a very exciting time to be an 'ALIEN' fan. 

-Windebieste.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 30, 2015, 02:42:13 AM
That's a very fair appraisal of the situation and  I agree.   I'm sure no one has seriously addressed the Alien's origin until Scott and Co.  First tackled the notion when 'Prometheus' was first called 'ALIEN: Origins'.  Then, of course, a lot of things changed.  They always do.  Then they get recycled, like the reappearance of the pyramid concept from the early 'ALIEN' scripts turns up again in 'Prometheus'.

In this regard, I sometimes think 'Prometheus' resembles what 'ALIEN' could have been had such elements been included.   

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Nov 30, 2015, 12:54:05 AM
Humans were always scheduled for a dose of black goo at a specific point of development.  We were never meant to be left to our own devices and develop space travel.

I think this statement is the key to everything this series represents.  My own pet theory is that the Derelict didn't crash on Acheron.  It was deliberately placed there.  As a bait in the form of a warning, set to trap Humans once we became a space faring species.   The derelict may turn out to be the Galaxy's great mouse trap, set to eradicate out of control vermin.  Namely, Us.

Kind of like the inverse of the monolith found on the Moon during the events depicted in '2001 - A Space Odyssey'.  Except the purpose of the derelict is much more malign and it was intended to keep us away from that particular region of space - or suffer the consequences for ignoring the 'warning' message. 

I really like what Scott is doing here.  I found 'Prometheus' to be a very uneven movie, but it laid the foundation for an extremely intriguing premise that I am happy to watch unfold during the next few years.  I suspect this is going to be a very exciting time to be an 'ALIEN' fan. 

-Windebieste.

I like the idea of these places we explore on these moons, essentially being like mouse traps or in the case of Prometheus, roach bait. We bring it back to the nest and infect everyone else with it.

I also like this idea of question if the Alien evolved or was made. I suppose, and I don't think Ive ever discussed this before, but in my mind, while watching Alien, I was thinking, here we are encountering a creature who's defenses have evolved to survive and/or destroy all the conventions of space travel. That's what I was thinking, anyway. IE; that the creature has been surviving off of other species it encounters via space vehicles of some sort. I suppose the idea that someone made it for that reason, also works, if not even better. Like, maybe some Alien species don't want other alien species to know about them, so they manufactured this pest for them to discover and find, and then be killed by before any civilization can venture further outward into space and interfere with their own cultural advancement.

Quote from: windebieste on Nov 29, 2015, 10:38:00 PMNo one ever asked Scott about it, I guess.

Technically they did, and according to him, it's an artificially engineered species. At least one of the various Alien documentaries quotes him as saying that.

Ironic also that there have been several scripts that intended to introduce that idea as fact into the series, but in each case it's never quite made it to the screen.

My only issue with the mouse trap scenario is that it seems like a round about way to get the job done. 

The Engineers clearly meant to deliver a mass quantity of goo to the earth 2000 years ago.  The reaction of the final Engineer is also telling.  He appears to have a WTF are they doing here reaction after being woke up, and not a "Welcome children, this black goo is your birthright and will solve all your problems.  Take it home with you"

Well, that's a good point.  They do seem to conflict each other.  On the other hand, we don't have all the facts, either.  3 more movies coming could deliver any explanation.  That is, if one is forthcoming.

We know that the black goo has transformative properties.  Maybe the goo was originally intended to be delivered and change humanity in  a more positive way.  Maybe we were to become like the Engineers themselves.   But the black goo was a bad batch.  Maybe the stuff has just 'gone off' during the Centuries it's been lying in neat little stacks inside the Juggernaut.  Maybe it's gone stale.  It's been 'left out of the refrigerator for too long' and it's former positive properties have altered and become come something less desirable.  lol.  Like  yogurt that's been sitting on the kitchen bench for a week...  Eating it is not going to do the good things it was originally intended for.  At this point, we just don't know. 

Maybe the Prometheus crew stumbled on the Galactic equivalent of the fully stocked Cosmic Ice Cream Truck that's been locked inside its depot for 20 years. 

There's just so many details we have no idea about at this stage.  There's a large chasm between 'Prometheus' and 'ALIEN' that might need a very carefully crafted trilogy to bridge properly.  Where's my popcorn?

-Windebieste.

This is going to end up with the Space Jockey from the original Alien actually turning out to have been David. Isn't it?

HAHA!  ...why not? 

Maybe it's Shaw.  After all, Scott has confirmed Rapace will reprise her role as a "minor part" in 'ALIEN: Covenant'. 

A role long enough, maybe, for her to get face hugged and then strap herself down in the Jockey's chair.  Now that would be a real treat, huh.  lol.

-Windebieste.

Quote from: irn on Nov 30, 2015, 09:32:13 PM
This is going to end up with the Space Jockey from the original Alien actually turning out to have been David. Isn't it?

Or Shaw......  Which has been a theory since before Prometheus was released.

The problem there is the timeline.  There isn't much time between Prometheus and Alien for David to get to paradise let events to play out.

1) turn the crew of the Covenant into eggs
2) fly back to lv426, and get infected
3) become fossilized

;)

I wouldn't give much credence to the idea of the space jockey being fossilized.  Dallas looked at the thing for 1 minute and made a judgment call that wasn't his to make.  Even the characters in Prometheus at first thought the helmet of the space jockey was a complete head until they discovered there was a person inside.  If it is Shaw in the derelict and the thing is fossilized, then we are in time travel territory my friends.

It's like Burke saying Amanda Ripley McLaren was dead.  That whole idea could change with one keystroke.

You know I was thinking about the title covenant... none of you guys suppose Ridley's going down the Alien Cult Route do you? Read that as worship, fanboy or believers.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 30, 2015, 11:34:53 PM
You know I was thinking about the title covenant... none of you guys suppose Ridley's going down the Alien Cult Route do you? Read that as worship, fanboy or believers.

A covenant implies an agreement or commitment, but I rarely hear the term outside of religious discussions.  Then again, I'm agnostic so I really don't get involved in too many religious conversations if I can at all help it.

Lots of options for a covenant.

1) Between Engineers and David
2) Between Engineers and humanity
3) Between Engineers and Xenomorps
4) Between Engineers and their creators

5) Between David and Shaw
6) Between David and the creators of the Engineers

and on and on...

Then you have repercussions to breaking a covenant which sounds much more ominous than breaking an agreement.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get with the idea of the Alien being nothing but a manufactured weapon.  If that's the case, we might as well name the series Construct.

@Mustangjeff: Yea I can live with all of those examples you gave. It's just that I hope Covenant does mean a agreement between god(insert deity aka David etc) and the masses.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Dec 01, 2015, 12:55:19 AM
I'm sorry, but I just can't get with the idea of the Alien being nothing but a manufactured weapon.  If that's the case, we might as well name the series Construct.

I'm kind of ok, sort of, with the idea that it is a manufactured weapon. However I would prefer it be a naturally occurring spices that was merely corrupted by the engineers. Perhaps, since there is religious connotations in the premise, the Alien is the engineers attempt to resurrect god.

The idea that the Xenos were engineered ceases to be disturbing when you consider the context of the Prometheus film which entails humans being engineered by the pale white tall guys.  By this rationale you can consider that the Alien is as natural as a cat or an ant.  They are species that are able to function in their environment.  Perhaps somewhere out there, they also have Xenos running around on a planet in some ecosystem.  That could still mean they're engineered as weapons, but then it could mean the same thing about humans.  Perhaps we are the engineered weapons...

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Dec 01, 2015, 12:55:19 AMI'm sorry, but I just can't get with the idea of the Alien being nothing but a manufactured weapon.  If that's the case, we might as well name the series Construct.

Who's to say they didn't start out as a construct before taking on a life of their own? The Alien we see now may not be what was originally created.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 01, 2015, 09:04:54 AM

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Dec 01, 2015, 12:55:19 AMI'm sorry, but I just can't get with the idea of the Alien being nothing but a manufactured weapon.  If that's the case, we might as well name the series Construct.

Who's to say they didn't start out as a construct before taking on a life of their own? The Alien we see now may not be what was originally created.

True.  I love how they created something so compelling that it makes us keep trying to solve this mystery in our heads even though it is completely a work of fiction and they seem to be making it up as they go along...

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Dec 01, 2015, 12:55:19 AM
I'm sorry, but I just can't get with the idea of the Alien being nothing but a manufactured weapon.  If that's the case, we might as well name the series Construct.

Don't be so hard on this Cold Light... If you think about it, this weaponizing of the Deacon, is kind of like the way humans have manufactured Dog breeds. I believe that's the way Ridley means to have the xeno 'manufactured' anyway... Like they took an already dangerous species and amplified or accelerated all the aspects that made it dangerous...

Maybe this Covenant is some sort of agreement made between the warring gods... Like we were made to be hosts for these monsters, and then some of the gods loved us (as in Paradise Lost) but some of the gods could care less about us and wanted us to be used as the hosts. And what we saw in Prometheus was the ones that hated us, determined to destroy us and use us for research.
Maybe a covenant was made between the gods, where they agreed that the bad Engineers,... they could use some of us as hosts to do research and develop this monsters with, provided they left the rest of us alone, on earth... But then things got violent between them because the Engineers were jealous of Gods love for us (Paradise Lost) and they destroyed themselves.
So what we saw in Prometheus was some of the last survivors trying to destroy us or evolve us,...
I dunno, something like that...

Since corroboration usually builds credibility...
It appears that Scott really does plan Covenant + 2 more sequels and he's doing it to build a franchise inspired by Star Wars.

I found the first link freshly-posted on Games Radar.
http://www.gamesradar.com/star-wars-inspired-ridley-scott-revisit-alien/

The source for that is here:
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/ridley-scott-hopes-to-shoot-three-new-alien-movies-in-sydney-20151127-gl93o1.html

Scott claims he's going to tell us everything. Admittedly, I am not catching much enthusiasm for any of this. The inane aspects of Prometheus left a horrible aftertaste. But who knows? Maybe something good will happen. I guess we'll see.

'Prometheus' was such an uneven movie; yet 'The Martian' delivered in ways that was exceptional in every way where Scott's previous film was flawed.

'ALIEN: Covenant' could go either way. 

Right now; and at this point in time, I say "Flip a coin.  Hope for the best."

-Windebieste.

If Aliens were created in the same bizarre manner that humans were, I might be okay with it; I just don't want to see them coming off an assembly line, and being nothing more than another weapon in the Engineers' arsenal.

Maybe Aliens/Deacons/whatever else the Engineers created could be derived from a heretofore unknown species; one more terrifying and dangerous than the creations.  Maybe the black goo could be its could be fluid from its body.

Quote from: windebieste on Dec 01, 2015, 10:26:09 PM
'Prometheus' was such an uneven movie; yet 'The Martian' delivered in ways that was exceptional in every way where Scott's previous film was flawed.

'ALIEN: Covenant' could go either way. 

Right now; and at this point in time, I say "Flip a coin.  Hope for the best."

-Windebieste.

I think that the fact that he has a saga and franchise in mind is a positive sign, in that it shows more focus.

Sorry to go back to Babylon 5 here, but I wonder if we might see something akin to the shadow wars.

The basic synopsis is that at a time in the past, the "first ones" decided to leave the known galaxy behind.  The first ones were a group of ancient species that were first to developed sentience in the galaxy.  When the first ones departed, they left two caretakers behind to watch over the younger developing species.  They were the Vorlons, and the Shadows.

At some point the Vorlons and shadows stopped agreeing on how to foster the younger races.

Vorlons - preferred order and obedience.  They appeared to the younger races as angelic creatures, and tinkered genetically which created telephaths. 

Shadows - preferred chaos.  Wars allowed the strong to survive and the weak to be destroyed.  Mother is the necessity of invention.

Eventually the know galaxy became a proxy war for the two different viewpoints.  The Vorlons and Shadows would not attack each other outright, but allowed the younger races to fight terrible wars on their behalf.

Where am I going with this?

Makes me wonder if this could be where we are headed in the ALIEN universe.

Xeno - represents chaos, physical power, instinctual.

Humans - Weak, but technologically advanced,

The survivor inherits the universe.

To pull one out of the box maybe the aliens were given the same star map and just beat us to the engineers. The mural in the giant head room was a warning to not trust those guys. The giant head was just a memorial to the guy that stopped them. At which point they decided to terminate all their experiments in the sector before evacuating.

Like seriously too. That one mural had a xeno holding an open egg. It was like, here's our gift to you, engineer looks in and that dude is f**ked as is everyone else in the facility.

I'd just like to say that I hope they give pause for thought for the score and sound effects in this movie, as well as the lighting. All these sucked in Prometheus. Done with forethought, they could really make Covenant special. I'm not a fan of Aliens as an "Alien" film, but I like it a lot as a standalone action film, in fact love it. But with Alien it's about the atmosphere, and building suspense, something you can't do with the characters chatting all the time and no alone time with the characters like Lambert or Parker in their moment of horror.

I've listened to Alien lots of times without actually watching it and it's like a symphony. If I could walk about of the IMAX thinking this about Covenant then Sir Ridley is back. Finally, make it horror please like Alien, but how to? I would say the only horror left is sharing a good actor's horrific experience of slowly changing into an alien or something, no sure how but horror not action. There's no horror left in the beast, no fear from being stalked by it or it jumping out house-of-horrors style like Alien, so how about fear you can relate to like a horrible forced change into a nightmare creature. I remember reading a leaked false plot here on something like that before Prometheus dropped. Acting out knowing that you will become "the alien" and the horror of being powerless to stop it could be one way to bring the trilogy back to the majesty of Alien. Multiple Davids, could be good if acted as well as Prometheus but plays more into the hand of Blade Runner sci-fi and thinking about AI then horror for me.

Okay, that explains more.

Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Dec 02, 2015, 01:38:27 PM
I'd just like to say that I hope they give pause for thought for the score and sound effects in this movie, as well as the lighting. All these sucked in Prometheus. Done with forethought, they could really make Covenant special. I'm not a fan of Aliens as an "Alien" film, but I like it a lot as a standalone action film, in fact love it. But with Alien it's about the atmosphere, and building suspense, something you can't do with the characters chatting all the time and no alone time with the characters like Lambert or Parker in their moment of horror.

I've listened to Alien lots of times without actually watching it and it's like a symphony. If I could walk about of the IMAX thinking this about Covenant then Sir Ridley is back. Finally, make it horror please like Alien, but how to? I would say the only horror left is sharing a good actor's horrific experience of slowly changing into an alien or something, no sure how but horror not action. There's no horror left in the beast, no fear from being stalked by it or it jumping out house-of-horrors style like Alien, so how about fear you can relate to like a horrible forced change into a nightmare creature. I remember reading a leaked false plot here on something like that before Prometheus dropped. Acting out knowing that you will become "the alien" and the horror of being powerless to stop it could be one way to bring the trilogy back to the majesty of Alien. Multiple Davids, could be good if acted as well as Prometheus but plays more into the hand of Blade Runner sci-fi and thinking about AI then horror for me.

WHAT YOU SAY HERE ABOUT ATMOSPHERE!!!!
This is so on point. IN FACT - I would argue that it is precisely what they have almost never gotten right since ALIEN 3. And say whatever you want about ALIEN 3 but DAVID FINCHER is an absolute MASTER of ATMOSPHERE and that movie is no exception.

This is my biggest gripe with PROMETHEUS. At some points it does a fine job of creating atmosphere... But then it almost seems to shit on the atmosphere Ridley created in ALIEN. And that is the biggest shame of them all.
The fact that it does capture it sometimes is almost worse than it not capturing that atmosphere at all.

The scene where they find the giant head is a fine example of this. The image of that was stunning and eerie, but in execution, within the film, the camera never lingers on the grandeur of those sets for long enough to do what was done in the derelict with atmosphere in ALIEN. And the reason for that is sometime very easy to pin-point.
TIME.
To create the right atmosphere for ALIEN, you have to let things take time and lots of it. Its a slow build.
I actually disagree about ALIENS not creating atmosphere. Its not as abundant or thick and dense as the atmosphere in Alien and Alien 3 but, Aliens takes its time to build its world.
Much is said about all the action in Aliens but, truthfully that film has been on for almost an hour with almost no action yet... The opening with the Narcissus and her dreams, and the exploration of the Hive and the abandoned colony... All atmosphere building.... And this is what they need to accomplish again.
Take time. Build atmosphere. f**k run time. Give RS 2.5 hours FOX. Find a really great composer. I was listening to a WARP guy today called Oneohpoint Trix Never, that guys stuff was awesome.... I dunno. I wasnt happy with the PRometheus music.
Couldn't agree with this last post more.

Not sure what I think yet of this new trilogy. All I'm really certain of is that I don't want the new films to follow suit with Prometheus by being too big, epic and overblown. Keep it dark, menacing and personal like the original.

Quote from: CainsSon on Dec 05, 2015, 08:22:35 AM
WHAT YOU SAY HERE ABOUT ATMOSPHERE!!!!

Needz moar beehive smoke.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 05, 2015, 03:51:40 PM

Quote from: CainsSon on Dec 05, 2015, 08:22:35 AM
WHAT YOU SAY HERE ABOUT ATMOSPHERE!!!!

Needz moar beehive smoke.

Nah, needs more Cowbell

For me since 1979 the ALIEN was a ALIEN Creature evolved on LV 426...
The space jockey Visited that planet...Was infected with the ALIEN...and when trying leaving, he crashed on LV 426 when the ALIEN bursted out of his chest...

But sadly enough this idea was completely killed, by prometheus... suddenly its al human..LMAO...

QuoteDon't be so hard on this Cold Light... If you think about it, this weaponizing of the Deacon, is kind of like the way humans have manufactured Dog breeds. I believe that's the way Ridley means to have the xeno 'manufactured' anyway... Like they took an already dangerous species and amplified or accelerated all the aspects that made it dangerous...

This was my take on things. If the Engineers existed millions of years ago, when life first began on Earth, whose to say they haven't been around millions more, or even billions? If they created life on Earth, whose to say they haven't created life period, including themselves? This doesn't nerf the creature in any way, in my opinion. What if they were some form of interdimensional superconsciousness that the Engineers wrote into the framework of spacetime itself. They trivially travel between star systems and galaxy, and whose to say they haven't created entire planets, or galaxies, as well? I could keep going.

Quote from: itshouldneverhavebeenabug on Dec 02, 2015, 01:38:27 PM
I'd just like to say that I hope they give pause for thought for the score and sound effects in this movie, as well as the lighting. All these sucked in Prometheus. Done with forethought, they could really make Covenant special. I'm not a fan of Aliens as an "Alien" film, but I like it a lot as a standalone action film, in fact love it. But with Alien it's about the atmosphere, and building suspense, something you can't do with the characters chatting all the time and no alone time with the characters like Lambert or Parker in their moment of horror.

I've listened to Alien lots of times without actually watching it and it's like a symphony. If I could walk about of the IMAX thinking this about Covenant then Sir Ridley is back. Finally, make it horror please like Alien, but how to? I would say the only horror left is sharing a good actor's horrific experience of slowly changing into an alien or something, no sure how but horror not action. There's no horror left in the beast, no fear from being stalked by it or it jumping out house-of-horrors style like Alien, so how about fear you can relate to like a horrible forced change into a nightmare creature. I remember reading a leaked false plot here on something like that before Prometheus dropped. Acting out knowing that you will become "the alien" and the horror of being powerless to stop it could be one way to bring the trilogy back to the majesty of Alien. Multiple Davids, could be good if acted as well as Prometheus but plays more into the hand of Blade Runner sci-fi and thinking about AI then horror for me.

I like this, a lot. Just keep in mind the 'bug' thing can be "Lovecraftianed" just like any other sci-fi thing can be made utterly terrifying. If you've seen "Empire of the Ants", you'll understand how dark it can be. Imagine a concept of a terrifying interdimensional "psychic" parasite that was written into physical form via a hyperpowerful hyper-advanced technological empire of beings that create life trivially, and one of the first forms of life ever to become into existence, and designed to be an "ultimate" bio-weapon with a trans-dimensional and metaphysical power source. All of this with that exact kind of atmosphere you described. A being that is seemingly unstoppable slowly killing these poor individuals one by one, and are seemingly powerless to stop it. And most of all, make it strange. Make it so weird and out of normality that it is something that seems as though it shouldn't exist, but could. Make it look as though it were smiling, with massive teeth and hands, really light upon the sheer length of its fingers and limbs, only showing the hands and limbs (including tail) for most of the movie. Have it move erratically, or glide upon its tail as it seemingly 'hovers' toward the victim. Make it sadistic and terrifying. Like Clive Barker/Wes Craven/H.P. Lovecraft mixed.

I'd like Ridley to come out and tell us what genre Covenant is going to be and set up our expectations for the trilogy. I don't call sci-fi a genre in this respect, i'd call it a setting, and maybe that's where Prometheus went wrong as it tried to define itself as sci-fi and that's not a base enough genre like action, thriller, horror, romance ... to make a movie tick along nicely. There's not much you can really do with a cinema run time of what, 2hrs ... so keep it simple, shock us, excite us, make us cry or scare us (which I might add he did say he wanted to do and didn't deliver).

I believe from the extras, interviews etc. from Prometheus that he wanted to scare us and also mix up ancient astronauts ... but like a confused 1st year university student's essay he wants to say so much but talks gibberish as he's only got 1500 words to say it in. So I put my case forward that I hope he comes out and says "I want to scare the life out of you." Well, okay Sir Ridley don't get off the pot ... Lay this fact down and get on with it, it's going to be an 18 period ... and stop confusing us as to what you're going to do to us when you get us sat down infront of Covenant for a couple of hours just scare us.

Just reading through the other comments, yeah Clive Barker wouldn't mess about if he said and just quoting Sir Ridley again "I want to scare the life out of you" or whatever he actually said about fear ... Alien was like Hellraiser for so long for me, it scared me, like really scared me, but the image of the beast has been used in marketing so much it's removed all fear from it. Pinhead is similar to this over marketed and not scary anymore but the box ... and what happens if you play with it, very very scary and always will be and if you you're going to reboot hellraiser you're not going to be fielding questions even right up to its realise about its certificate. Its going to be 18 and scary and if not it's going to be a watered down chimera of what hellraiser meant. But the thing is for me, okay reboot Alien but what did Alien mean. I mean like Hellraiser, take away pin head and the cenobites which were so so scary before over marketed, what do you have, someone messing with their soul, playing a game and suddenly in hell and never able to escape, or whatnot, for me a scary experience to live through via the skills of the actors brought in to turn the story into life. So there is life in hellraiser even after the suits market the characters in products ... but what is the abstract fear in Alien ... well they nailed it with in space no one can hear you scream. So forget trying to do anything else other than scare us with this mantra. It worked poetically in Alien.

Horror in a sci-fi setting is hard to do, in my opinion, and the only film that genuinely still scares me, and I wish that they hadn't overly marketed the beast as then Alien would still do it, is event horizon. I'm in my 40's and can honestly say I can't watch that movie as it gives me nightmares, pretty much like hellraiser 1 and 2. Sam Neill is simply terrifying in it, and what he suggests at the end like you never really left when you think you are safely back at earth is scary for even a cynical 40 something. I honestly can't watch that movie, even though I bought the dvd, so it did its job it scared me and the dvd sits in my collection menacingly.

So what my stream of consciousness is trying to say is I hope so much that Covenant and the trilogy is a horror in a sci-fi setting, and Ridley delivers what he wanted to do with Prometheus, to scare us which he was a complete master of in Alien. just keep repeating in space no one can hear you scream as it is so poetic perfectly mixing horror in a sci fi setting in 8 words, even hemmingway would have been impressed with this line so run with it please Ridley.

Just wanted to say I agree too with Alien 3 comments, the quality of acting really made that movie for me, it was westend theatre quality acting and the lighting and music were really on point, the big issue for me is the alien went small, fast, cat like, not the alien in the spirit of alien, the giant slowly moving snarling alien showered in water that kills parker. Alien alien nailed all the horror creature basics, it was text book and really strange too, it even moved slowly as its so horrific and scarey it doesnt need to move quickly as its going to get you even if it moves in slow motion! If it had been this alien alien then Alien 3 would have been for me a great film not just a good film. And just thinking about this maybe Barker paid homeage to this in a way and tipped his hat to Sir Ridley with his snarling cenobite ...

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Dec 02, 2015, 12:07:19 PM
Sorry to go back to Babylon 5 here, but I wonder if we might see something akin to the shadow wars.

The basic synopsis is that at a time in the past, the "first ones" decided to leave the known galaxy behind.  The first ones were a group of ancient species that were first to developed sentience in the galaxy.  When the first ones departed, they left two caretakers behind to watch over the younger developing species.  They were the Vorlons, and the Shadows.

At some point the Vorlons and shadows stopped agreeing on how to foster the younger races.

Vorlons - preferred order and obedience.  They appeared to the younger races as angelic creatures, and tinkered genetically which created telephaths. 

Shadows - preferred chaos.  Wars allowed the strong to survive and the weak to be destroyed.  Mother is the necessity of invention.

Eventually the know galaxy became a proxy war for the two different viewpoints.  The Vorlons and Shadows would not attack each other outright, but allowed the younger races to fight terrible wars on their behalf.

Where am I going with this?

Makes me wonder if this could be where we are headed in the ALIEN universe.

Xeno - represents chaos, physical power, instinctual.

Humans - Weak, but technologically advanced,

The survivor inherits the universe.

Babylon 5... Good series, at least seasons 2-4. I don't think this is what  Ridley is doing. I think the overarching plot is the Engineers created humans and Xenos. Humans proved disappointing, Xenos were supposed to erase them. Seems to me, it would have been simpler to drop something large from orbit, nuke the planet, or just spray a part of it with black goo and let twisted nature take its course. How we end up back on LV426 is not clear. If the derelict is only a few decades old, that will be disappointing. If it turns out to be Shaw in the pilot's seat, that will be silly. I see lot of ways these sequels can turn out badly, a lot of ways they never get made.

QuoteBabylon 5... Good series, at least seasons 2-4. I don't think this is what  Ridley is doing. I think the overarching plot is the Engineers created humans and Xenos. Humans proved disappointing, Xenos were supposed to erase them. Seems to me, it would have been simpler to drop something large from orbit, nuke the planet, or just spray a part of it with black goo and let twisted nature take its course. How we end up back on LV426 is not clear. If the derelict is only a few decades old, that will be disappointing. If it turns out to be Shaw in the pilot's seat, that will be silly. I see lot of ways these sequels can turn out badly, a lot of ways they never get made.

I wasn't being too serious with the B5 Shadow War reference, but the Shadows were pretty creepy when it came to their biotechnology.

I still can't get my head around any circumstance where the Xeno was created to kill humans.  The only scenario that would remotely seem feasible would be if the Xeno's were created to take out a particular faction of Engineers, and they want to use humans as a test bed to see how effective they would be. 

Personally, I think there are two possibilities why they created humans.

1) use as incubators and food for the Xenos.

2) The back goo was meant to weaponized us to possibly fight the Xeno's.  Our final form was meant to be.   

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prometheus-movie.com%2Fmedia%2Fconcept001.jpg&hash=9799e6d91c0a90e9ba557e5575435e9d16de4ed0)

I'd like to think that the Space Jockey in Alien is the oldest/last of its kind and were treated like Gods by the Enginners, which is why they made their space suits look like they did. Lol well its a theory

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Dec 07, 2015, 04:25:31 AM
2) The back goo was meant to weaponized us to possibly fight the Xeno's.  Our final form was meant to be.

That would be a twist, what if the goo mission was never meant to kill off man but to evolve man. However when David finds this out he out right lies to everyone because it contradicts his own goal.

Sometimes to create, one first has to destroy... would be all turned upside down like that shit Obi-Wan pulled on Luke with his "point of view" speech. :P

Still the issue of the Engineer's reaction though.

He was just upset when he found out David was an android. Android'est culture.  8)

Ha, maybe the thing that killed them was a robot and not an experiment that went wrong; the alien experiment was supposed to stop the machines when it decided that it liked people more. Alright now I'm just being silly. :P

Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 07, 2015, 01:47:54 PM
What if the goo mission was never meant to kill off man but to evolve man. However when David finds this out he out right lies to everyone because it contradicts his own goal.

That's basically what the Engineers had been doing for millennia in the Spaiths script via the black goo.

Quote[Holloway] In my studies I discovered a pattern I couldn't explain. Every eleven hundred years, sudden advances in agriculture, tool use, technology. Inventions.

Something caused a great leap forward. Every eleven centuries. The pattern holds as far back as our data goes.

I was analyzing historical changes in human DNA. I found the same pattern. Every eleven centuries, a pulse of new information in the genome of the human race. All over the world. Evolution can't do that. Something was changing us. Changing the DNA of our species.

They guided us to civilization. Lifted us up, again and again. I call them the Engineers.

In Spaiht's script he's pissed off when he gets woken up because he's impregnated too. So that works out and makes sense.

Yea so... maybe he killed them because of that and then he didn't want to get fired for oversleeping. Hey that chestburster might be popping out... but the dues still got a job to do. Gotta make sure the wife and kids get that pension. We can fit this into Lindelof's scripts by saying the trilobite actually suffocated the engineer and rather impregnated the alien inside of his chest.... ha. f**king-A.

That still wouldn't work because he's already awake and killing folk by that point.

Daisey Ridley could play a good female lead role.

Quote from: Infected on Dec 10, 2015, 02:02:01 PM
Daisey Ridley could play a good female lead role.

I'm tempted to agree, but I instead hope that after Star Wars, she'll get into some more down-to-earth dramatic roles. She has a lot of promise, and I'd hate to see her typecast as a 'space hero' when her career is really just beginning.

Quote from: Mustangjeff on Dec 07, 2015, 04:25:31 AM

QuoteBabylon 5... Good series, at least seasons 2-4. I don't think this is what  Ridley is doing. I think the overarching plot is the Engineers created humans and Xenos. Humans proved disappointing, Xenos were supposed to erase them. Seems to me, it would have been simpler to drop something large from orbit, nuke the planet, or just spray a part of it with black goo and let twisted nature take its course. How we end up back on LV426 is not clear. If the derelict is only a few decades old, that will be disappointing. If it turns out to be Shaw in the pilot's seat, that will be silly. I see lot of ways these sequels can turn out badly, a lot of ways they never get made.

I wasn't being too serious with the B5 Shadow War reference, but the Shadows were pretty creepy when it came to their biotechnology.

I still can't get my head around any circumstance where the Xeno was created to kill humans.  The only scenario that would remotely seem feasible would be if the Xeno's were created to take out a particular faction of Engineers, and they want to use humans as a test bed to see how effective they would be. 

Personally, I think there are two possibilities why they created humans.

1) use as incubators and food for the Xenos.

2) The back goo was meant to weaponized us to possibly fight the Xeno's.  Our final form was meant to be.   

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prometheus-movie.com%2Fmedia%2Fconcept001.jpg&hash=9799e6d91c0a90e9ba557e5575435e9d16de4ed0)

Straczynski is a fan of Lovecraft and the B5 elder races all owe at least something to Lovecraft. The Shadows do this most blatantly, I think. And they had creepy biotech and servitor races like the Drakh.

We don't know enough about the Engineers' mindset or motivations to say what makes sense to them. Someone around here mentioned the idea of a war between the Engineers and Predators. That could be an interesting thing, and the possibility is supported (albeit indirectly) in the canon of the films. Both the Engineers and the Predators have a valid claim on the development of humanity. Predator 2 pointed out that the preds have been visiting earth for a long time,  and AVP goes even further. Allowing events of AVP into the Alien canon is contentious, but I'd say, you can't really deny it. I think it makes sense to accept that they all share one big, not-so-happy universe.

As far as making humans to be food/incubators for xenos, that seems unlikely. What we're given in Prometheus indicates the engineers - At least some of the Engineers, wanted humanity to develop and thrive. There is no reason to make humans as incubators because xeno eggs or the ampules could be seeded on any world or installation where the engineers wished to eradicate or modify a particular lifeform.

As for what humanity was supposed to become or what the black goo was actually supposed to do, the dog-men are one possibility.

Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Nov 29, 2015, 01:57:23 AM
While it should be its own thing, separating itself completely from Prometheus makes little sense, especially if Fassbender is going to have a more central role.  People don't just fly around in giant horseshoes with robot heads for companions for no reason at all.

You've obviously never been to the upper east coast of the states. Lol