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Alien vs. Predator Galaxy can exclusively share with you all one of John Logan’s earlier Alien: Covenant scripts! I believe this may actually be one of, if not the, first drafts that John Logan completed.

Dated November 20th 2015 (it was first reported in early November that Logan would be revising existing scripts), this script follows the same over all structure as what ended up on screen for the finished film but has several differences.

The most notable element is a sub-plot involving a quarantine field around the Engineer homeworld that Tennessee, Ricks and Upworth have to deal with, giving their characters more to do while the expedition team is on the surface of the planet.

Among many smaller differences, the character of Rosenthall is completely missing, there’s a small set piece of an “astronomical model” on the roof of the Citadel (which you can see a concept of below) and Shaw’s distress call is different.

“SHAW'S IMAGE walks through a WALL, and they RUSH TO FOLLOW–

SHAW is in anguish now. She falls to her knees and prays. The words of the Catholic prayer for the dead desperately whispered–“

Check out the script in its entirety and be sure to let us know how you feel it compares to the finished film!

In addition to this first look at one of the Alien: Covenant scripts, you can also check out scripts for the rest of the Alien and Predator films, including 2 of Jon Spaihts scripts for Prometheus, in our Downloads section. Head on over and give them a read!

Keep a close eye on Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest on Alien: Covenant! You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to get the latest on your social media walls. You can also join in with fellow Alien fans on our forums!

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Sweet!

Nice!  ;D

Awesome!

the Shaw's prayer for the dead is interesting! (for the dead Engineers, presumably) A detail that would fit into the "gothic" mood. Ominous and goosebumpy. IMO they changed it because, sadly, some people were bitching about religious tones in Prometheus.

Not only Rosenthal is missing. Ankor too. Very little detail. No transitions from one scene to the next like in the neomorph attack. And why is Jack Paglen not credited?

p 29

QuoteSergeant HALLET and Privates LEDWARD and ANKER complete the
landing party.

Not sure what you mean by 'no transitions'.

I mean, in the film, after the lander blows up the crew is wandering for a while on the wheat field before they are attacked by the neomorphs.

Quote from: joylit on Aug 15, 2017, 11:02:39 AM
And why is Jack Paglen not credited?

My guess is that it's not significantly different enough from Paglen's story.

One of the things that I found interesting about the movie was actually cut out. The scene where mother is talking in a literal sense with Walter. I don't know how the average fan reads this but I always took the mu/th/ur program to be purely a coded operating system. Not a system that would bother to interact "humanly" much less point out a random fallacy. I suppose that's the entire "I was made like this cause your people are more comfortable interacting with your own kind" comment David made about having to wear the suit.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2017, 11:25:34 AM

Quote from: joylit on Aug 15, 2017, 11:02:39 AM
And why is Jack Paglen not credited?

My guess is that it's significantly different enough from Paglen's story.

Possibly a Guild arbitration thing.

Quote from: joylit on Aug 15, 2017, 11:23:19 AM
I mean, in the film, after the lander blows up the crew is wandering for a while on the wheat field before they are attacked by the neomorphs.

They're just standing on the shore with weapons ready while Daniels tries to contact Tennessee in the film.

No flute??????

Funny, some of the dialogue is switched. David says: You have a light step, and Walter responds with: Me and the fog, on little cat feet. It's the other way around in the film. Interesting. Also, it seems the Xenomorph has the ability to regenerate, like the Hammerpedes.

That was in the original Alien script where it gets an appendage ripped off in the airlock hatch, and Ash talks about the hugger 'self regenerating', though ultimately left out.

Yeah, I wonder if they'll ever actually implement it in a film.

Also, the ending makes more sense here. Instead of asking about the cabin on the lake, Daniels asks David what song they played at Jacobs funeral, because she wants him to play the same song for her funeral in case she dies. David of course doesn't know the answer, and that's how Daniels finds out it's actually David. In the film, David could have just said yes, when Daniels asked him to help her build the cabin. But for some reason, he doesn't. I guess he was just messing with her.

Fookin' A! 

Thanks Corporal

239 light years from earth

Some distance further than lv 426 and lv 223

I take upon arrival a lot if terraforming was to happen . Perhaps a lot of the crew would remain in stasis until proper terraforming was complete.

Feels a lot like the start to Aliens.

Besides expanding of the shield in paradise, I prefer what we saw in the final cut. Hope other scripts are floating around with the deleted Shaw sequences.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 15, 2017, 09:19:06 AM
Alien vs. Predator Galaxy can exclusively share with you all one of John Logan's earlier Alien: Covenant scripts.

Did Fox give it to you guys? Considering the timing and all.

I'll have to let Jeff Winger do the talking for me on this one...

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m00wo0UFpS1qi6jbho1_r2_250.gif&hash=204c68b208a0511839582bd955c50d198ca5a2fa)

Going all cloak-and-dagger on me Corporal?  :laugh:

Just finished reading this and, I have to say, I think the finished film fared better. Definite pacing and dialogue improvements in the filmed product.

---

Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 15, 2017, 02:27:56 PM
Besides expanding of the shield in paradise, I prefer what we saw in the final cut. Hope other scripts are floating around with the deleted Shaw sequences.

Agreed!

I really missed some more david - shaw elements, it's just a big mystery what happened (other than that he killed her). I mean shaw was the one of the main character in P.

Thanks!

Exactly. I have the feeling Logan didn't try hard enough. He writes like someone who is convinced he is involved in a "minor" genre film, and saves his best chops for "serious" projects. He should know that we take this stuff very seriously, and there are very well written, Oscar nominated adult sci-fi scripts as well, in case he has't seen "Arrival" or Ex Machina". I feel like awarding "Alien Covenant" a couple extra points for trying so hard and not becoming an even worse movie. Honestly, poor Ridley Scott.

Yeah, he turned off his serious chops. He didn't mean to, and didn't do it maliciously. He accidentally ratted himself out when he said he wanted "to make a fun rollercoaster horror movie". And the movie wasn't even fun!

Oh brother, John. Go rub The Aviator and The Last Samurai DVDs all over your body. Serious movies, serious genres!

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Aug 15, 2017, 06:25:22 PM
Oh brother, John. Go rub The Aviator and The Last Samurai DVDs all over your body. Serious movies, serious genres!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The image is priceless.

Thanks for sharing this.
I have to agree pacing is better in the final film. What is good about this script version is that it sheds enough light on some topics, at least it let us in the head of the writers and Ridley in regards of what is happening in planet4.

This was the most interesting part to me, David commenting on the dead facehugger:

QuoteDavid carefully stretches open the dead fingers, spreading
the beast for Oram to observe the horrible maw.
DAVID
This one's a true survivor. Not
unlike myself I suppose ... It can
evolve very quickly under certain
circumstances. Sadly, this one
became aggressive so I had to do
away with it. Such a shame.

The "survivor" part seems to indicate that the eggs were stored somewhere by the engineers, and that the specimen had survived the bombing and whatever happened to planet 4 during the 4 days disaster (mentioned by David earlier in the script), until David found it, had to kill it, then studied how the engineers created it and took it from there.

I don't know how to feel now. Sure, some of these comments by David create more mystery, cause further info is shared but no conclusive answers are given. However, the answers seem to point to rather unsatisfying concepts, like all xxx-morph creatures being just parasites or engineered biological weapons.
No nightmarish conceptions, unknown origins, sex machines deviations, no giger. :(

Observations and things I like:

-There's an artificial forcefield around the planet. Probably why David didn't leave because here he
mentions intact ships.
-The walking part after David rescues the crew seems longer as they describe more of the city.
-David's attack on the city is a little different. He drops urns of goo, they break and then it starts.
The attack is described more in detail. So this scene was also meant to be longer.
-More info about Engineer technology.
They were highly advanced in some ways, but still so limited.
Spacefaring for a billion years -- yet binary logic never occurred to them.
Many things about them were primitive.
-More about how David looks down on mankind.
-The crew is more suspicious of David. Also more mentions about his behaviour.
-Daniels appears less "weak". It reads like she would look different.
-The garden scene is more detailed. The garden itself is described as something beautiful full of trees and flowers.
Appears a lot bigger.
-David talks more about life and creation
-David's rooms are different. No mention of a small study or the flutes.
The lab doesn't have drawings, it contains specimens, some dissected, some in jars,...
The egg room is around a corner.
The drawings are in a seperate gallery that has a secret room dedicated to his work on Shaw.
We also see David drawing.
-The first egg-facehugger scene is better and makes more sense.
And so does the second scene.

I think all this would've improved the final result.
But the fruit tasting scene isn't as strong as the flute teaching moment. A combination might have been the best.

"Yeah, he turned off his serious chops. He didn't mean to, and didn't do it maliciously. He accidentally ratted himself out when he said he wanted "to make a fun rollercoaster horror movie". And the movie wasn't even fun!

Oh brother, John. Go rub The Aviator and The Last Samurai DVDs all over your body. Serious movies, serious genres!"

I have no idea what you're on about. Are *you* being serious?

The Last Samurai, The Aviator?

What?

So random.

The final version was much better but there were a few small details which would have been nice, or interesting. The afflicted(?) Organisms, a hint of the pathogen was interesting to read

I really liked Lope's teeth being knocked out during the facehugger attack. Really made it seem more violent.

Its great to have an earlier script to compare with. Hope we get more :)

Hopefully the Paglen and Green drafts make it out there eventually.

I've come into possession of another complete draft by Logan and the beginning of a second later draft (essentially an earlier version of the Crossing viral) both from August of 2015 so it would appear this draft wasn't one of the first done by him!

Cool. Are you gonna make it public?

Hopefully. Bare with.

Nice!

Sweet

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 09, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
I've come into possession of another complete draft by Logan and the beginning of a second later draft (essentially an earlier version of the Crossing viral) both from August of 2015 so it would appear this draft wasn't one of the first done by him!

Yessss! I've been waiting for this. Thank you.

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/yall-got-anymore-5a8bb7.jpg)

I've still gotta finish sanitising it (I've really not been arsed to do much in the way of Alien or Predator this last week and a bit) and making sure it's okay to share first.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 20, 2018, 08:30:14 AM
I've still gotta finish sanitising it (I've really not been arsed to do much in the way of Alien or Predator this last week and a bit) and making sure it's okay to share first.

Sanitise?

Yeah, has to be ok to share. Didn't think about that last night.

I assume he means checking if it's genuine. There's so many fake scripts out there doing the rounds. There was actually one fake one that surfaced several months before Covenant came out. Claimed to be an early Jack Paglen draft IRRC.

I've seen a fake Paglen and a fake Green.

Got a feeling they're gonna (try) keep the early scripts offline until the last part in the trilogy is made. Because they might use ideas from those for the last movie.
If they're going with a Planet David scenario, it's likely they'll use things from the Prometheus 2/Alien: Paradise scripts.

Yeah, they have a tendency to cannibalize the old scripts. Indiana Jones is the same.

Quote from: KiramidHead on Feb 21, 2018, 01:32:23 AM
Yeah, they have a tendency to cannibalize the old scripts. Indiana Jones is the same.

In this case, I'm hoping they do. I presume most concept art was based on a one of the drafts and I found most of it quite intriguing. So I'd just love to know more about them. Either in movie or script format. Preferably both  ;D

Honestly, I don't believe there was really that much of a difference between the older ones and what we got. I've been speaking to someone who I'm aware worked on the project when it was called Prometheus 2 and there's very very little difference.

Hmmm... Not sure what to think of that.
Khang-Le's and Carlos Huante's work gave me the impression the differences would be bigger.
I know that out of all the concept art only few things are actually used but they're usually drawn for a reason, no?

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Honestly, I don't believe there was really that much of a difference between the older ones and what we got. I've been speaking to someone who I'm aware worked on the project when it was called Prometheus 2 and there's very very little difference.

So even without the shoehorned Alien, the story was almost the same. Well I don't blame them. After all, and despite some nice eye candy, Prometheus plot is so messy.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Feb 21, 2018, 02:35:52 PM
Hmmm... Not sure what to think of that.
Khang-Le's and Carlos Huante's work gave me the impression the differences would be bigger.
I know that out of all the concept art only few things are actually used but they're usually drawn for a reason, no?

I don't know, because at Khang's website one can find some familiar stuffs like the mass death of the Engineers and a previous version of David's lab. Mutant Engineers seem to suggest a longer and alternate flashback. But overall I am seeing more aesthetic differences, such as the architecture of the necropolis: more akin with the facilities of LV-223 with some Giger´s references.

Apparently, even when it was Prometheus 2, there were Aliens involved. The only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit. Didn't get an answer on her fate though.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Apparently, even when it was Prometheus 2, there were Aliens involved. The only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit. Didn't get an answer on her fate though.

If only it was like that in the film.  :'(

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Apparently, even when it was Prometheus 2, there were Aliens involved. The only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit. Didn't get an answer on her fate though.

Being a fan of Rapace it hurts to read that. That's what I imagined happening. I had the idea that Shaw managed to survive and helped the Covenant crew survive David and the xenos. Though, sadly we got a slap in the face instead.

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Feb 21, 2018, 09:01:20 PMI don't know, because at Khang's website one can find some familiar stuffs like the mass death of the Engineers and a previous version of David's lab. Mutant Engineers seem to suggest a longer and alternate flashback. But overall I am seeing more aesthetic differences, such as the architecture of the necropolis: more akin with the facilities of LV-223 with some Giger´s references.

The mass death is similar, yes.
But the weapon used seems different. Instead of pathogen it appears like bugs. Sorta makes sense since after the attack parasites emerge from the Engineers.
There's the "sick" Engineer sitting with others, there's an Engineer becoming a 'morph (but this could be the sick one).
And later on a bunch of those 'morphs. So at some point multiple Engineers drank 'morph goo and changed.
If it happened after David's attack, that could mean there were still Engineers present when the Covenant arrived.
David's lab includes 3 humans stuck in something. What happened there? What was he doing?

Maybe the overal structure of the movie is the same, but the filling seems better.
More Engineers, more creations, more to discuss.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Apparently, even when it was Prometheus 2, there were Aliens involved. The only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit. Didn't get an answer on her fate though.

The Aliens were probably the Engineers who drank the goo. I'm guessing the movie would end with them attacking.
We'd might to know more about their race and the xeno.
And they would've made the xeno instead of David.

Shaw survived?! Aw, lawd! Why didn't they keep this in the movie.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Feb 21, 2018, 10:21:06 PM
Shaw survived?! Aw, lawd! Why didn't they keep this in the movie.

If this movie really is Prometheus... David will resurrect Shaw. So yea we will see her again.

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 21, 2018, 10:19:30 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Apparently, even when it was Prometheus 2, there were Aliens involved. The only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit. Didn't get an answer on her fate though.

Being a fan of Rapace it hurts to read that. That's what I imagined happening. I had the idea that Shaw managed to survive and helped the Covenant crew survive David and the xenos. Though, sadly we got a slap in the face instead.

Maybe Rapace didn't like the direction the script was going that focused less on the plot of Prometheus and something more Alien, and she decided she didn't want to be involved with the project. I mean that's been the reasoning in my head this whole time. She didn't want to be involved in the project in any major way, so they wrote her out because she wouldn't spend that much time in it.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PMThe only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit.

Please fire the idiot who thought that this was a bad idea.

It would have been preferable to her getting the Alien 3 treatmemt.

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Feb 22, 2018, 11:35:50 AM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2018, 10:02:10 PMThe only major differences I'm hearing is that Shaw survived to be found by the Covenant crew and helped them out a bit.

Please fire the idiot who thought that this was a bad idea.

That's what I want to know. Who was the person or group of persons @ Fox who decided to kill her off since 2012 and on I'd always remember press interviews were Noomi would always talked about wanting to do Prometheus 2 or how the script was coming along. Then, everything went quiet.

I could easily imagine what would of happened with Shaw in Covenant. Shaw was experimented on Though survived and escaped David's lab of horrors. At this junction,  Shaw would look like a hybrid engineer, bald headed with black eyes. She lives in a distant part of the planet. She notices the Covenant transport and quickly goes towards their location. As we see in the film, the group splits apart, Shaw comes across the crew who takes scientific samples and warns them of the habitat. However, she sees what happens to the soldier and she's the one who rushes to take him to the ship, and keep him quarantined. They lock him in the bay while the pilot and scientist stay outside with Shaw when they see the birth of the neo. Shaw realizes that neo is about to burst out of the bay and orders the two women to grab weapons and run while she torches the ship. They run to safety and Shaw blows the ship. They run towards her hideout when the neo chases after the three and Shaw seeing this with the weapon she kills the neo. In the distance, they see the other half of the crew come back and have their own neo encounter and the appearance of David. The two women want to go with the group though, she stops them.

From there, Shaw tells the women of her mission and what occurred when she arrived and how David lost his mind. She hatches a plan to the rescue the rest of the crew from David. The film continues the same as it is until we see david murder half Of the crew via experiments or luring them into his egg dungeon. Shaw reaches the temple to discover what he did and rescues Danny, Lope, and Walter.  we have a boss fight between David and Shaw. Shaw at first takes the upper hand though His strength is too much for her and Walter orders her and Danny to leave and while he finishes David off. The movie remains the same from what we saw with the difference that it's Shaw who gets rid off the xeno in the Covenant. Then, at the end it's Shaw instead of Danny, David reveals himself too.

From writing this, I do see the film being longer though we would spend more time with Shaw and the world she arrived to and how exactly David went mental on her and the engineers.

What if Naomi was just hesitant to reprise her role if the part she played would be shortened from finding answers at the end of Prometheus, to being introduced midway as an action sidekick to the Covenant crew. We all want Shaw back, but from where I see it, it would be really hard for an actress who already knows the character so well to suddenly be the help. I mean she was probably disappointed with the direction the movie was going with her character and decided that the role she had didn't fit what she knew of the Shaw character.

Having her just help the Covenant crew mid way.....I don't know, it doesn't sound like the Shaw in Prometheus. As much as we all wanted her to return, I don't see a way she could if it was just introduced midway, there probably would have been added exposition etc...Honestly if they wanted to make Alien Covenant they kind of dodged a bullet by not adding Survival Shaw Bear Grills, or at least that's how it sounds to me.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Feb 22, 2018, 02:35:42 PM
What if Naomi was just hesitant to reprise her role if the part she played would be shortened from finding answers at the end of Prometheus, to being introduced midway as an action sidekick to the Covenant crew. We all want Shaw back, but from where I see it, it would be really hard for an actress who already knows the character so well to suddenly be the help. I mean she was probably disappointed with the direction the movie was going with her character and decided that the role she had didn't fit what she knew of the Shaw character.

Having her just help the Covenant crew mid way.....I don't know, it doesn't sound like the Shaw in Prometheus. As much as we all wanted her to return, I don't see a way she could if it was just introduced midway, there probably would have been added exposition etc...Honestly if they wanted to make Alien Covenant they kind of dodged a bullet by not adding Survival Shaw Bear Grills, or at least that's how it sounds to me.

Yeah, I agree. Either give her the lead role, or kill her and make her death really meaningful. Sadly they chose to kill her, and make her death sort of meaningful.. but I think it could have been handled better.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Feb 22, 2018, 02:35:42 PM

I don't know, it doesn't sound like the Shaw in Prometheus. As much as we all wanted her to return, I don't see a way she could if it was just introduced midway, there probably would have been added exposition etc...

That also could be said of David. David of Prometheus was more ambiguous than what we see in Covenant.

In the end, we got what we got. So we have to live with it.

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 22, 2018, 03:10:01 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Feb 22, 2018, 02:35:42 PM

I don't know, it doesn't sound like the Shaw in Prometheus. As much as we all wanted her to return, I don't see a way she could if it was just introduced midway, there probably would have been added exposition etc...

That also could be said of David. David of Prometheus was more ambiguous than what we see in Covenant.

In the end, we got what we got. So we have to live with it.

So in the script in question we would have a bunch of exposition from both Shaw and David, David being the unreliable narrator to Shaw's reliable probably, that tells the Covenant crew David has lost his milky marbles. I don't know, it just seems like such a weird thing to do with her character, have her introduced midway just to say "WAIT, DAVID'S THE ASSHOLE, FOLLOW ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE". That's just not the way the character was. Admittedly, I'm just working off what I think is in the script, it could be totally different. But "introduced midway to help the Covenant Crew" after being stranded for so long....yeah that's a really weird and simplistic direction to take the character.

Maybe if they got rid of David instead and made this about David killing the Engineers, but David dying and Shaw surviving only to live among the ruins of the people she wanted answers from, living in the necropolis instead trying to piece together the history of the Engineers; but being unable to grasp their motives. Just giving all hope of escape and wanting to get answers in the wake of David's shitty actions that ruined her dreams, trying to find answers like Ahab and the white whale. Then the Covenant crew show up for the same reasons as the film, but they enter an area contaminated by David's bombing, that Shaw carefully sealed herself away from, and becomes somewhat the antagonist for completely justifiable reasons to the audience, while the Covenant are fleshed out couples that are equally relatable to the audience. The question then becomes, at what price does Shaw want her answers, and does it mean sealing off people who are dying, or does she help them. Has she been gone alone for so long that her faith has completely driven her to the edge surrounded by nothing but monolithic reminders of dead Engineers, that she blames herself for even coming here and ending the Engineers? That the Covenant crew's naive attempt of getting the apple somewhat reflects her own naivety she doesn't want to admit exists? David's words ring through her ears, and so does her response: "I deserve to know why." That would be more appropriate as an exploration of Shaw's character.

But you know, that just makes too much character sense. Let's introduce her midpoint in the script as the hardened survivalist.

I get where you guys are coming from, but that really doesn't sound like something I'd want from Shaw's character.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Feb 22, 2018, 03:57:28 PM

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 22, 2018, 03:10:01 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Feb 22, 2018, 02:35:42 PM

I don't know, it doesn't sound like the Shaw in Prometheus. As much as we all wanted her to return, I don't see a way she could if it was just introduced midway, there probably would have been added exposition etc...

That also could be said of David. David of Prometheus was more ambiguous than what we see in Covenant.

In the end, we got what we got. So we have to live with it.

So in the script in question we would have a bunch of exposition from both Shaw and David, David being the unreliable narrator to Shaw's reliable probably, that tells the Covenant crew David has lost his milky marbles. I don't know, it just seems like such a weird thing to do with her character, have her introduced midway just to say "WAIT, DAVID'S THE ASSHOLE, FOLLOW ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE". That's just not the way the character was. Admittedly, I'm just working off what I think is in the script, it could be totally different. But "introduced midway to help the Covenant Crew" after being stranded for so long....yeah that's a really weird and simplistic direction to take the character.

Maybe if they got rid of David instead and made this about David killing the Engineers, but David dying and Shaw surviving only to live among the ruins of the people she wanted answers from, living in the necropolis instead trying to piece together the history of the Engineers; but being unable to grasp their motives. Just giving all hope of escape and wanting to get answers in the wake of David's shitty actions that ruined her dreams, trying to find answers like Ahab and the white whale. Then the Covenant crew show up for the same reasons as the film, but they enter an area contaminated by David's bombing, that Shaw carefully sealed herself away from, and becomes somewhat the antagonist for completely justifiable reasons to the audience, while the Covenant are fleshed out couples that are equally relatable to the audience. The question then becomes, at what price does Shaw want her answers, and does it mean sealing off people who are dying, or does she help them. Has she been gone alone for so long that her faith has completely driven her to the edge surrounded by nothing but monolithic reminders of dead Engineers, that she blames herself for even coming here and ending the Engineers? That the Covenant crew's naive attempt of getting the apple somewhat reflects her own naivety she doesn't want to admit exists? David's words ring through her ears, and so does her response: "I deserve to know why." That would be more appropriate as an exploration of Shaw's character.

But you know, that just makes too much character sense. Let's introduce her midpoint in the script as the hardened survivalist.

I get where you guys are coming from, but that really doesn't sound like something I'd want from Shaw's character.

Great point!

In my part, I just wanted a better fate for her than being butchered and left in a slab. At least in Alien3, they gave Hicks and Newt a beautiful funeral ceremony.

It all goes back to the producers and writers not doing justice to the character, and just focusing on David and the Aliens that they lost their way in the process and perhaps that led to Covenant's dismal box office results. I like many fans of Prometheus had issues with the film, though Shaw wasn't one them, and when they heard what was done to Shaw, perhaps and that's my speculation, that many didn't even bother watching the film.  I had friends who were mad with what was done with her, so its not just me, perhaps more people feel the same, though you don't hear from them in AVP Galaxy or other online sites.

For Awakening, if it ever gets done, I hope someone is there and steers them in the right direction.
 

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 22, 2018, 12:49:31 PM
That's what I want to know. Who was the person or group of persons @ Fox who decided to kill her off since 2012 and on I'd always remember press interviews were Noomi would always talked about wanting to do Prometheus 2 or how the script was coming along. Then, everything went quiet.

I could easily imagine what would of happened with Shaw in Covenant. Shaw was experimented on Though survived and escaped David's lab of horrors. At this junction,  Shaw would look like a hybrid engineer, bald headed with black eyes. She lives in a distant part of the planet. She notices the Covenant transport and quickly goes towards their location. As we see in the film, the group splits apart, Shaw comes across the crew who takes scientific samples and warns them of the habitat. However, she sees what happens to the soldier and she's the one who rushes to take him to the ship, and keep him quarantined. They lock him in the bay while the pilot and scientist stay outside with Shaw when they see the birth of the neo. Shaw realizes that neo is about to burst out of the bay and orders the two women to grab weapons and run while she torches the ship. They run to safety and Shaw blows the ship. They run towards her hideout when the neo chases after the three and Shaw seeing this with the weapon she kills the neo. In the distance, they see the other half of the crew come back and have their own neo encounter and the appearance of David. The two women want to go with the group though, she stops them.

From there, Shaw tells the women of her mission and what occurred when she arrived and how David lost his mind. She hatches a plan to the rescue the rest of the crew from David. The film continues the same as it is until we see david murder half Of the crew via experiments or luring them into his egg dungeon. Shaw reaches the temple to discover what he did and rescues Danny, Lope, and Walter.  we have a boss fight between David and Shaw. Shaw at first takes the upper hand though His strength is too much for her and Walter orders her and Danny to leave and while he finishes David off. The movie remains the same from what we saw with the difference that it's Shaw who gets rid off the xeno in the Covenant. Then, at the end it's Shaw instead of Danny, David reveals himself too.

From writing this, I do see the film being longer though we would spend more time with Shaw and the world she arrived to and how exactly David went mental on her and the engineers.

I'm largely with you on this. Little addition, the forcefield around the planet (it's in the concept art).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/egg-room-telescope-03-on_orig.jpg)

Shaw offers to try and shut down the forcefield so the Covenant crew can escape. Walter comes along. They fail.
She ends up on the table (bottom left corner) and Walter is broken.
Daniels finds out about David (bottom right corner). Walter returns.
He battles David for a moment until the Engineers turned xenomorphs arrive.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/disease-04-c_orig.jpg)

David wins, body switch, egg grab,... Stuff remains the same except there are more xenos attacking the ship and David regurgitates a xeno embryo.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Feb 22, 2018, 05:09:08 PM

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 22, 2018, 12:49:31 PM
That's what I want to know. Who was the person or group of persons @ Fox who decided to kill her off since 2012 and on I'd always remember press interviews were Noomi would always talked about wanting to do Prometheus 2 or how the script was coming along. Then, everything went quiet.

I could easily imagine what would of happened with Shaw in Covenant. Shaw was experimented on Though survived and escaped David's lab of horrors. At this junction,  Shaw would look like a hybrid engineer, bald headed with black eyes. She lives in a distant part of the planet. She notices the Covenant transport and quickly goes towards their location. As we see in the film, the group splits apart, Shaw comes across the crew who takes scientific samples and warns them of the habitat. However, she sees what happens to the soldier and she's the one who rushes to take him to the ship, and keep him quarantined. They lock him in the bay while the pilot and scientist stay outside with Shaw when they see the birth of the neo. Shaw realizes that neo is about to burst out of the bay and orders the two women to grab weapons and run while she torches the ship. They run to safety and Shaw blows the ship. They run towards her hideout when the neo chases after the three and Shaw seeing this with the weapon she kills the neo. In the distance, they see the other half of the crew come back and have their own neo encounter and the appearance of David. The two women want to go with the group though, she stops them.

From there, Shaw tells the women of her mission and what occurred when she arrived and how David lost his mind. She hatches a plan to the rescue the rest of the crew from David. The film continues the same as it is until we see david murder half Of the crew via experiments or luring them into his egg dungeon. Shaw reaches the temple to discover what he did and rescues Danny, Lope, and Walter.  we have a boss fight between David and Shaw. Shaw at first takes the upper hand though His strength is too much for her and Walter orders her and Danny to leave and while he finishes David off. The movie remains the same from what we saw with the difference that it's Shaw who gets rid off the xeno in the Covenant. Then, at the end it's Shaw instead of Danny, David reveals himself too.

From writing this, I do see the film being longer though we would spend more time with Shaw and the world she arrived to and how exactly David went mental on her and the engineers.

I'm largely with you on this. Little addition, the forcefield around the planet (it's in the concept art).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/egg-room-telescope-03-on_orig.jpg)

Shaw offers to try and shut down the forcefield so the Covenant crew can escape. Walter comes along. They fail.
She ends up on the table (bottom left corner) and Walter is broken.
Daniels finds out about David (bottom right corner). Walter returns.
He battles David for a moment until the Engineers turned xenomorphs arrive.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/disease-04-c_orig.jpg)

David wins, body switch, egg grab,... Stuff remains the same except there are more xenos attacking the ship and David regurgitates a xeno embryo.

Much more could have been done that sadly was dropped. Though, it would had been great to see Khang-Le's Covenant concept used.

Quote from: 0321recon on Feb 22, 2018, 12:49:31 PM
I could easily imagine what would of happened with Shaw in Covenant. Shaw was experimented on Though survived and escaped David's lab of horrors. At this junction,  Shaw would look like a hybrid engineer, bald headed with black eyes. She lives in a distant part of the planet. She notices the Covenant transport and quickly goes towards their location.

Insane and worth watching 😎

I'll be posting the new ones on the site later today.

Woohoow!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 05, 2018, 09:34:13 AM
I'll be posting the new ones on the site later today.

Looking forward to it!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 05, 2018, 09:34:13 AM
I'll be posting the new ones on the site later today.

There goes my productivity for the day. GAME OVER MAN!

can't stop refreshing

Sorry for the delay. I ended up falling to sleep before I got chance to do anything last night. Just waiting for the boss to upload the scripts to the site and it'll be on the front page.  :)

heh Hicks fell asleep. That is most definitely canon.

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/Paradise-Prologue-06062015.pdf
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/ParadiseLost-%2019082015.pdf

They're up!

Nice, reading now.  :)

Thanks for sharing!

I think what I like most about this draft is the scenery of the planet. It all seems thicker and fuller.
Kudos to Space Shrimp for spotting the solar panels.

The prologue bit almost made me sad.

Do you know anything about an October 2014 Prometheus: Pandemonium draft?
It's mentioned in the comments here http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47150

Sweet!

Got them downloaded before Hicks posted. ;)

Interesting.  Walter has a bit more personality in this draft.

Haven't read the script itself, though read through the entire Prologue script, I was more than surprised that some of the dialogue that we heard in the YouTube video came from this. Knowing what Pietro talked about of that twelve minute bridge being cut out I have feeling they actually shot this prologue script or a version of it, though cut everything out to that 2 minute blurb.

I feel horrible for Dr. Shaw, though at least this somewhat closes her character than just showing her dissected.

After reading this, I want to see the Prologue assembled back into the film a'la alternate beginning for Alien3 or being put after David and Weyland's prologue sequence. If that footage doesn't get to see the light of day, at least we know what was shot.

The thread that will launch a thousand clickbait Youtube videos about the REAL ANSWERS TO ALIEN COVENANT!!

Somehting's bothering me about the draft, if these things are written by professional writers, then why are there so many spelling errors?

Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 06, 2018, 11:53:01 PM
Somehting's bothering me about the draft, if these things are written by professional writers, then why are there so many spelling errors?

It happens more often than you'd think. Christ, just look at Red's Alien III. The man couldn't spell "ceiling" to save his life.

David killing Shaw in the prologue is just too much. I'm glad that's not how the film starts.

I need more!

Time for a Scott Free Productions heist...

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 07, 2018, 01:12:20 AM
I need more!

Time for a Scott Free Productions heist...

Yo Kim Jong Un, you hear what Ridley Scott said about yo mama?!?

Quote from: Evanus on Mar 07, 2018, 12:29:35 AM
David killing Shaw in the prologue is just too much. I'm glad that's not how the film starts.

I liked how they were setting up the world Shaw was living through the journey, and how she had issues in helping David out. Though, being remorseful, helps him out. After that, both build a bond with each other. Then, out of nowhere, Scott pulls a Psycho on us.   

It rubbed me on the wrong way like you since she was excited on meeting her creators when David murders her and the engineers in that fashion.

However, from what we saw in the YouTube short, David puts her to sleep in the engineer cryopod. Perhaps the final version of the Prologue they went with, Shaw was asleep when David bombarded Paradise. Though who knows. In my part, Shaw deserved better than this. Rather have hybrid engineer rambolina Shaw than what we read on this prologue or what we saw in the film - a dissected on a slab Shaw.

Like I mentioned before I'd like to see this as an alternative start to the film on a blu-ray, or at least, release the entire sequence as a deleted scene. 

I'm still not sure what kind of fate I actually wanted for Shaw.
Personally, I think it would've been nice to see David and her explore the planet for a while.
David could've bombed the place, woke her up after a few days and said it was like that when they arrived.
And Shaw and David's conversations could be used to deliver us some Engineer info.
After that she ends up in her lab or something. Or becomes a prisoner?

Maybe she was held prisoner by David, gets saved by Walter, they bound, Daniels dies, Shaw ends in cryo thinking she finally escaped her captor then David reveals himself.

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 07, 2018, 01:19:15 AM
Yo Kim Jong Un, you hear what Ridley Scott said about yo mama?!?

Where's the fun in that? I wanna do an Alien version of the movie Fanboys, without any of us being terminally ill ofcourse.

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 07, 2018, 03:06:45 AM
I'm still not sure what kind of fate I actually wanted for Shaw.
Personally, I think it would've been nice to see David and her explore the planet for a while.
David could've bombed the place, woke her up after a few days and said it was like that when they arrived.
And Shaw and David's conversations could be used to deliver us some Engineer info.
After that she ends up in her lab or something. Or becomes a prisoner?

Maybe she was held prisoner by David, gets saved by Walter, they bound, Daniels dies, Shaw ends in cryo thinking she finally escaped her captor then David reveals himself..

After Prometheus was initially released, I had imagined them reaching Paradise and finding it already bombarded. They explore the planet and find the answers that Shaw wanted though in that process come across proto-xenos and both of them needing to escape the planet. Though, they went somewhere else with the story. 

Like I've mentioned before, I hope we get to see this sequence on a double dip blu-ray release someday.

Yeah, exactly what I imagined too. And I also agree with what you said about the prologue.

I hope they release more deleted scenes at some point, and maybe even an extended cut. It's so odd they only released one Blu-ray/DVD version, there isn't even a proper special edition or something.

Quote from: Evanus on Mar 07, 2018, 03:53:42 AM
I hope they release more deleted scenes at some point, and maybe even an extended cut. It's so odd they only released one Blu-ray/DVD version, there isn't even a proper special edition or something.

It's surprising how haphazard the blu-ray release was against what the other films in the franchise received. Shove a commentary,  a half-assed behind the scenes, and deleted scenes that didn't augment the story keeping the nuggets such as the alternate beginning out of it.

I know the film under-performed, though they should had pulled all the stops with a special edition to recoup their theatrical loses. Look at Kingdom of Heaven, it was a box office failure, though it received DVD and Blu ray extended cut and look at it now, its still praised as one of the best home video releases due to the behind the scenes and its three cuts.

It's wishful thinking and I know Covenant had its issues though, they should had at least milked the home release with three cuts. - Theatrical, one with the Alternate beginning by itself, and the other, have both openings cut together into the film. Let's see what happens.

Despite this movies disappointments, for me at least as a fan if they had started the movie with David and Shaw and this beautiful moment then that shocking twist plus all those cool moments with David on the planet experimenting on the Space Jockeys from those production stills, this movie would of been awesome!

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 06, 2018, 10:42:09 PM
Do you know anything about an October 2014 Prometheus: Pandemonium draft?
It's mentioned in the comments here http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47150

I'm afraid I don't.

---

Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 06, 2018, 11:06:21 PM
Haven't read the script itself, though read through the entire Prologue script, I was more than surprised that some of the dialogue that we heard in the YouTube video came from this. Knowing what Pietro talked about of that twelve minute bridge being cut out I have feeling they actually shot this prologue script or a version of it, though cut everything out to that 2 minute blurb.

I feel horrible for Dr. Shaw, though at least this somewhat closes her character than just showing her dissected.

After reading this, I want to see the Prologue assembled back into the film a'la alternate beginning for Alien3 or being put after David and Weyland's prologue sequence. If that footage doesn't get to see the light of day, at least we know what was shot.

My understanding is that they definitely shot the David's head floating outside the ship. How much more of it they shot, I don't know.

---

Quote from: SM on Mar 06, 2018, 11:08:50 PM
The thread that will launch a thousand clickbait Youtube videos about the REAL ANSWERS TO ALIEN COVENANT!!

I'm just waiting for them!  :P

I haven't read it yet, but David's head outside conjures up images of Kevin Kline dangling John Cleese out a window.

Damn... The prologue is great. It should have stayed in the movie.

Great to see more of what could have been?

I'm not keen on Shaw's demise in the prologue, its a bit sudden. I prefer that in the film its speculative as to what/why and how she died.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 07, 2018, 09:25:19 AM

Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 06, 2018, 11:06:21 PM
Haven't read the script itself, though read through the entire Prologue script, I was more than surprised that some of the dialogue that we heard in the YouTube video came from this. Knowing what Pietro talked about of that twelve minute bridge being cut out I have feeling they actually shot this prologue script or a version of it, though cut everything out to that 2 minute blurb.

I feel horrible for Dr. Shaw, though at least this somewhat closes her character than just showing her dissected.

After reading this, I want to see the Prologue assembled back into the film a'la alternate beginning for Alien3 or being put after David and Weyland's prologue sequence. If that footage doesn't get to see the light of day, at least we know what was shot.

My understanding is that they definitely shot the David's head floating outside the ship. How much more of it they shot, I don't know.

Thanks for the info Corporal.

Read through the entire script. Liked Walter being more cheeky with mother. Though, David just rubbed me off the wrong way. Glad, they went with what we saw in the film. Though, it would had been nice to see Shaw's transmission instead of the country roads song.

So, it seems that Harper and Green wrote the Covenant story line and Logan polished it. Paglen appears to have been responsible for a draft that was more of a direct sequel to Prometheus. I hope we get to read it someday.

The AVP series needs to fix the issue of the alien.  Meaning. In covenant we learn the modern alien is designed by the Android. Ok. So how did the full designed alien exist in ancient times via the first AVP storyline backstory. It's a major flaw in the tie ins..

Thank you, Hicks!!! These scripts couldn't have come at a better time since A:C was getting kind of stale.

Does anybody have any new thoughts on or theories about the pathogen now? I love that it's referred to as the "Xenovirus" btw.

As flawed as it is, I feel the film version is the best version after having read these two early scripts.
Thanks for sharing these Hicks, really interesting read

This script, honestly I'm glad we got what we got, it is certainly an improvement actually. But some things strike out at me reading so far.

1) Engineer adults, children, etc. They play some kind of old ancient human sport. That's interesting. The setting is a bit too lush, I think scoping it back was a good idea, you don't want to go too far in that natural physical direction without CGI.

2) Planet 4 is not anywhere near the Core Systems, the Outer Rim, or even the Outer Veil of human colonized space. They weren't joking when they said this was the farthest out humanity has ever ventured, Shaw in the beginning says they're about 200 light years from Earth. And they didn't even make it then. They were close, but they she still slept, and and ate, washed. Could be anywhere within the 200 light year range. Which proves my suspicions that wherever this world was, it had to have been pretty far from human space not to be noticed. Making 7 years for Origae-6, from some region 200 light years away from human colonized space. Weyland Yutani clearly wanted to accelerate their colonial spread, this being one of many planned missions but....obviously they never came back so the idea was probably scrapped. It could be a typo, but it's nothing like the "inter-galactic" shit they were saying in the marketing of Prometheus. 200 light years sounds extremely far, but not unfeasibly far. Origae-6 must be one hell of an Earth parallel for them to invest that much to terraform it. It now makes sense why they would want to do Planet 4 instead, this was probably needed in dialogue. It's closer, beyond their most optimistic dreams. And Origae-6 is 7 years past the cruising speed of the Covenant which hit Planet-4 200 light years from Earth, with 6 recharges to go. It's a risky investment, and they should have added more dialogue on the weight of just how far Origae-6 was from Earth, nailing that this was probably a better choice. Just like Prometheus, ideas discussed around the table in concept that should have made it to dialogue.

3) They actually scan the planet and find out its exactly like Earth, Earth life. Earth bacteria. Earth everything. There isn't anything on the planet, minus some extinct life we see in David's art like actual trilobites (not the Prometheus kind, the actual Paleozoic kind), that make it really sort of a Lost World. They needed to establish this in dialogue in the movie.

4) The scene where they're searching around the Derelict and they find just a mass of dead Engineers in their suits. It seems that it wasn't so sudden in this draft where everyone died at once. They had the time to get into suits, but by the time they did it was too late. Someone nearly falls off a cliff in fright after seeing an Engineer suit with its helmet-shell cracked open and rotting flesh inside. Then he regains composure and another guy goes to help, before seeing that the entire hillside is just covered in the corpses of Engineers in suits. My guess? They planned on immediately investigating what the f**k happened and why this craft deployed it's payload, but it was too late anyways. It describes Engineer Suits ripped open, decomposing, ribs jutting out, not from the armor, from the inside. Half decayed suits, half decayed Engineers, lot's of gore. And a hillside covered in them trying to make their way to the crashed Juggernaut before dying.

That's an image they should have kept. There's a lack of surprise that broke my suspension of disbelief in the movie that they weren't scared shitless a bio mechanical space ship was just there. It still somewhat remains in the ship, but the shock of seeing such a macabre tapestry of bodies trying to get to the Engineer ship before all of them met their gruesome off screen fate we can only speculate on.

That needed to remain. Why the hell did they omit that from the shooting script? It's a hell of an image that gives depth to the impact of what happened that the audience is there with the characters. Freaked the f**k out about a giant alien ship with one end of the hill surrounded by almost a battlefield of hundreds of dead engineers in various states of decomposition or worse. Also black urns surrounding them. It's a really sudden shocking shot that would have been appropriate instead of "huh, guess there's an alien space ship. ain't that something."

This is more Alien in its ominousness and implication that isn't in David's Art like in the final.

There's bad ideas in this script, and also, really rich imagery that implies the depth of what the f**k they got themselves into that's appropriately met with fright and unnerve.

In fact there are "Hundreds and Thousands" of these corpses in Engineer suits. Various states of decay. Surrounding the backside and hills around the ship. Apparently not to pleased this Juggernaut deployed its payload. Why they omitted that, I have no idea. It certainly gives scale to the atrocity.

Quote
The entire Expedition Team is gathered. All are shocked.

SERGEANT LOPE
Looks like they had a war of some kind.

WALTER
It seems they lost that war.

WALTER crouches near one body, seeing the BONES are damaged
in OTHER WAYS. PITTED, IRREGULAR HOLES. EATEN AWAY in places. Broken in others. Ripped apart.

And the many SHATTERED BLACK URNS spilled out in the scree below.

It's a graveyard.

GRIFFIN
(to Oram)
Sir, your Chief Terraformist
officially recommends we evacuate this planet immediately.

Griffin is Daniels in this script. I cannot believe they cut this out.

The final is superior, no doubt. But they needed to keep this scene early on to establish they had seriously f**ked up beyond their worst nightmares coming here.

The film needed this image badly, instead of just casually reacting to a f**king alien spaceship. They should be freaked, if not by the ship, but the ocean of bodies. I mean I just can't believe they omitted that. The film needed that so badly at that point. A sudden realization "Well, we f**ked up." beyond the blood bursters. Those just being the icing on the cake of a gigantic "Oops"

The film in my opinion had way to many plot holes , as I said it was basically forcing the viewer to forget everything that had gone before , and that the beast was just the work of rebellious android named David . It's just stupid . Also avp doesn't even come into this , as it was a creature feature and had no roots or connections to the true alien franchise . And like I said there was no gigerism in the film and that to me is infuriating.

Quote from: ELDERCLANLEADER on Mar 07, 2018, 09:05:22 PM
The film in my opinion had way to many plot holes , as I said it was basically forcing the viewer to forget everything that had gone before , and that the beast was just the work of rebellious android named David . It's just stupid . Also avp doesn't even come into this , as it was a creature feature and had no roots or connections to the true alien franchise . And like I said there was no gigerism in the film and that to me is infuriating.

It has holes, but it isn't exactly the worst we could have gotten. It's disapointing, they could have done better. But the Giger estate isn't pleased with 21st Century Fox. They can hardly reference their work anymore because of the fight on Alien 3 and Alien: R and the subsequent AVP movies.

Many thanks for sharing this! I'll take a look later  :)

Read the prologue.

Mixed feelings about Shaw getting bumped off 10 minutes in.  On the one hand it seemed a bit cheap.  On the other, it would've been a massive curveball for the audience.

It would've given David away too early as well.

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 01:28:30 AM
Read the prologue.

Mixed feelings about Shaw getting bumped off 10 minutes in.  On the one hand it seemed a bit cheap.  On the other, it would've been a massive curveball for the audience.

It would've given David away too early as well.

Also in hints they were intimate? Does David come fully installed?

I read affection in the face of loneliness in that, rather than sexual intercourse.

Oh, and David being a grammar nazi after he kills Shaw was a nice touch.  ;D

I could imagine Alien 3 all over again, only Alien 3 didn't have Ripley and Newt have a 15 minutes to get character development before everything exploded. People would have flung popcorn at the screen and started hollering the moment it went from heartfelt journey between two hurt souls to the world with the answers, they arrive, beautiful awe inspiring planet surrounded by ships that dwarf their own on a docking rig. Observing Engineer society as the ship's floor becomes transparent. Shaw saying something along the lines of "It's beautiful" and a tear goes down her face. David says "I like it when you cry" and snaps her neck, deploys the bombs, everything dies. Cut to entirely new characters.

That would have been about 100 times worse than Alien 3. I don't know how bad the reaction would have been, but I could only imagine  :laugh:

Loved the prologue. I'd probably cut before David kills her though, and then continue from that point later in the film in David's flasback sequence

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 07, 2018, 03:06:45 AM
I'm still not sure what kind of fate I actually wanted for Shaw.
Personally, I think it would've been nice to see David and her explore the planet for a while.
David could've bombed the place, woke her up after a few days and said it was like that when they arrived.
And Shaw and David's conversations could be used to deliver us some Engineer info.
After that she ends up in her lab or something. Or becomes a prisoner?

Maybe she was held prisoner by David, gets saved by Walter, they bound, Daniels dies, Shaw ends in cryo thinking she finally escaped her captor then David reveals himself.

I really like this idea too.

We need a sitcom in the Alien universe about a bougie family who owns a David 8 before the recall, who cannot stop saying creepy shit like "I like it when you cry", "Oh is that a teddy bear, why do you adore something with nothing to give to you, but not me?" "I don't understand why you two are fighting, clearly you need a divorce, you hate each other, sometimes to create one must first destroy" *david proceeds to draw himself f**king this guy's wife*

Call it Everyone hates David

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 08, 2018, 02:09:31 AM
I could imagine Alien 3 all over again, only Alien 3 didn't have Ripley and Newt have a 15 minutes to get character development before everything exploded. People would have flung popcorn at the screen and started hollering the moment it went from heartfelt journey between two hurt souls to the world with the answers, they arrive, beautiful awe inspiring planet surrounded by ships that dwarf their own on a docking rig. Observing Engineer society as the ship's floor becomes transparent. Shaw saying something along the lines of "It's beautiful" and a tear goes down her face. David says "I like it when you cry" and snaps her neck, deploys the bombs, everything dies. Cut to entirely new characters.

That would have been about 100 times worse than Alien 3. I don't know how bad the reaction would have been, but I could only imagine  :laugh:

That's exactly what I thought when I read that. I would had been one of them throwing my popcorn at the screen. We got Alien 3 all over again, though at least it was somewhat subtle than the slap on the face that would had if it was left.

Ironically, at least they should had released the entire sequence in the blu ray.

Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 08, 2018, 03:13:08 AM
Though, they should had at least released the entire sequence in the blu ray.

You could always tag along on the ol' surpise visit to Scott Free Productions  ;D

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 08, 2018, 04:19:54 AM

Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 08, 2018, 03:13:08 AM
Though, they should had at least released the entire sequence in the blu ray.

You could always tag along on the ol' surpise visit to Scott Free Productions  ;D

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ;D

Thanks AvPGalaxy! Now we need those 2013-2014 drafts by Jack Paglen or Michael Green to get full picture of what has happened to this project.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 08, 2018, 02:21:13 AM
We need a sitcom in the Alien universe about a bougie family who owns a David 8 before the recall, who cannot stop saying creepy shit like "I like it when you cry", "Oh is that a teddy bear, why do you adore something with nothing to give to you, but not me?" "I don't understand why you two are fighting, clearly you need a divorce, you hate each other, sometimes to create one must first destroy" *david proceeds to draw himself f**king this guy's wife*

Call it Everyone hates David

Lol  :laugh: A part of me really wants this.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 07, 2018, 08:50:27 PM
That's an image they should have kept. There's a lack of surprise that broke my suspension of disbelief in the movie that they weren't scared shitless a bio mechanical space ship was just there. It still somewhat remains in the ship, but the shock of seeing such a macabre tapestry of bodies trying to get to the Engineer ship before all of them met their gruesome off screen fate we can only speculate on.

That needed to remain. Why the hell did they omit that from the shooting script? It's a hell of an image that gives depth to the impact of what happened that the audience is there with the characters. Freaked the f**k out about a giant alien ship with one end of the hill surrounded by almost a battlefield of hundreds of dead engineers in various states of decomposition or worse. Also black urns surrounding them. It's a really sudden shocking shot that would have been appropriate instead of "huh, guess there's an alien space ship. ain't that something."

This is more Alien in its ominousness and implication that isn't in David's Art like in the final.

There's bad ideas in this script, and also, really rich imagery that implies the depth of what the f**k they got themselves into that's appropriately met with fright and unnerve.

In fact there are "Hundreds and Thousands" of these corpses in Engineer suits. Various states of decay. Surrounding the backside and hills around the ship. Apparently not to pleased this Juggernaut deployed its payload. Why they omitted that, I have no idea. It certainly gives scale to the atrocity.

Quote
The entire Expedition Team is gathered. All are shocked.

SERGEANT LOPE
Looks like they had a war of some kind.

WALTER
It seems they lost that war.

WALTER crouches near one body, seeing the BONES are damaged
in OTHER WAYS. PITTED, IRREGULAR HOLES. EATEN AWAY in places. Broken in others. Ripped apart.

And the many SHATTERED BLACK URNS spilled out in the scree below.

It's a graveyard.

GRIFFIN
(to Oram)
Sir, your Chief Terraformist
officially recommends we evacuate this planet immediately.

Griffin is Daniels in this script. I cannot believe they cut this out.

The final is superior, no doubt. But they needed to keep this scene early on to establish they had seriously f**ked up beyond their worst nightmares coming here.

The film needed this image badly, instead of just casually reacting to a f**king alien spaceship. They should be freaked, if not by the ship, but the ocean of bodies. I mean I just can't believe they omitted that. The film needed that so badly at that point. A sudden realization "Well, we f**ked up." beyond the blood bursters. Those just being the icing on the cake of a gigantic "Oops"

I think you got it right. I don't particularly like the idea of the engineer corpses right next to the ship, BUT, the film would have been entirely different if it would have went for freaking the characters and the audience as the overall mood for everything. Unease, where the f did we end up, let's get out, this is so alien and scary, that type of mood. They could have even done with the final script untouched, I guess it was a directorial error

There's also some build up for maybe, vaguely a justification as to WHY THERE'S A SHOWER SCENE

In this script, there's a communal shower in the crew quarters. They wash up right after the big tragedy, and don't exchange much words. Thus, explaining the showers.

If I remember correctly, that was not in the later draft. But there's still a shower scene. So did they add that back in at a later draft and that's just a deleted scene they filmed? Or did they not film it? Did they plan to film it, but ended up not? Also, if they didn't plan on filming that scene that explained the random shower, did they really just waste money building a shower set for no other purpose than to have two people murdered?

This is confusing because it isn't in the later draft. I won't say they didn't add it back into the script, that happens all the time. Apparently they shot bits of this script's introduction with Shaw and David, according to Hicks at least. While the later draft left out those details. Like this shower. That means they were writing as they were shooting somewhat, which is always a bad, terrible, sloppy idea.

So...I guess where I'm going with this is, there might be more deleted scenes than we otherwise would have suspected because of how things definitely seemed rushed on this movie, which is a bummer, but since it was announced I always felt that in my gut. There might have been more time to be with the characters. And hopefully they didn't just waste that shower set for one scene

---

Also, a couple of things I've noticed. There was a production photo of David walking down the hall of the Derelict, with bright light (as described in this script) lighting it up behind him. It couldn't be Walter just alone, and it doesn't make sense for the light to be natural, there's several shots like that...but this is clearly David.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/df-19516.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/C0NIx9JUkAAWLpb.jpg)

And the prologue, or introduction, isn't in the later draft. Confirming my suspicions since reading this, that this might be a production shot of an extended introduction.

I mean this is basically the same ambient light described in this script, and if Hicks is right about them shooting a bit more of it from this material (while it somehow isn't in the later draft we have?), then, I think these two shots may be from filming it.

---

And while we're on the topic, remember this picture? The first of the few leaked about this movie during filming?

When exactly did this take place, and when was the Covenant ever on fire?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/13254756_10154114346906605_4170609496769477936_o.jpg)

That was from a viral. I think it was supposed to be the Muthur viral. Can't recall if it shows up in it or not though.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 08, 2018, 04:44:27 PM
That was from a viral. I think it was supposed to be the Muthur viral. Can't recall if it shows up in it or not though.

One thing I'm just interested alone is that they planned for more use for the shower set, but either deleted the footage or omitted it entirely from the script to only belong to that one scene with ricks and upworth. The "T&A". They may have been over constructing sets for versions of scripts while shoving them in the corner in the final. Or maybe they did film it. Honestly, it just seems very rushed.

---

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 08, 2018, 04:44:27 PM
That was from a viral. I think it was supposed to be the Muthur viral. Can't recall if it shows up in it or not though.

By the way, besides knowing that they did indeed film more of the prologue, or bridge, whatever it was meant to be in the final film. Do you know anything else they might have shot? If you don't mind me asking

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/alien-movies/alien-covenant/deleted-scenes/?page2

It may need an update with some of the stuff I've learned since writing that.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 08, 2018, 04:05:46 PM
Also, a couple of things I've noticed. There was a production photo of David walking down the hall of the Derelict, with bright light (as described in this script) lighting it up behind him. It couldn't be Walter just alone, and it doesn't make sense for the light to be natural, there's several shots like that...but this is clearly David.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/df-19516.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/C0NIx9JUkAAWLpb.jpg)

And the prologue, or introduction, isn't in the later draft. Confirming my suspicions since reading this, that this might be a production shot of an extended introduction.

I mean this is basically the same ambient light described in this script, and if Hicks is right about them shooting a bit more of it from this material (while it somehow isn't in the later draft we have?), then, I think these two shots may be from filming it.

Yup, I wonder how much never released material from the Crossing Prologue could be out there. Also, the sadly discarded Engineer's graveyard would have been great. Ok, maybe not as great as the original Space Jockey scene, but definitely worth watching and better than what we actually got in Covenant. It seemed to suggest a battle, with Engineers trying to kill David to avenge their murdered civilization, and maybe David's Juggernaut was shot down and crashed.

Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Mar 08, 2018, 05:23:30 PM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 08, 2018, 04:05:46 PM
Also, a couple of things I've noticed. There was a production photo of David walking down the hall of the Derelict, with bright light (as described in this script) lighting it up behind him. It couldn't be Walter just alone, and it doesn't make sense for the light to be natural, there's several shots like that...but this is clearly David.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/df-19516.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/C0NIx9JUkAAWLpb.jpg)

And the prologue, or introduction, isn't in the later draft. Confirming my suspicions since reading this, that this might be a production shot of an extended introduction.

I mean this is basically the same ambient light described in this script, and if Hicks is right about them shooting a bit more of it from this material (while it somehow isn't in the later draft we have?), then, I think these two shots may be from filming it.

Yup, I wonder how much never released material from the Crossing Prologue could be out there. Also, the sadly discarded Engineer's graveyard would have been great. Ok, maybe not as great as the original Space Jockey scene, but definitely worth watching and better than what we actually got in Covenant. It seemed to suggest a battle, with Engineers trying to kill David to avenge their murdered civilization, and maybe David's Juggernaut was shot down and crashed.

If I remember right someone talked about they had planned to shoot the dreadnaught being shot down or both the scorpionaught and dreadnaught crashing into each other after the deployment.

I wonder if it everything was actually shot and rendered with cgi though cut out at the behest of Fox.

Let's remember during the test screenings they had a version of the crossing then cut out for YouTube. Then, we heard of a version of the film without the bombing and Ridley pushed Fox to put it back.

Would like to know who decided to cut what out since Scott had to push Fox to reinsert the bombing segment of the crossing.

It's so bizarre how different the older draft is, but has details that aren't in the later draft...that explain the reasoning for building sets and shooting footage (maybe not that far?) and then in a rush to the finish don't know what to do with what was left over from the previous draft you built sets for and spent money on.

The introduction must have cost quite a lot at least. Now we don't get to see it. The shower set was built not only for Ricks and Upworth, but for a communal shower scene after the solar burst as well. Whether or not they filmed it, I don't know. They went so cut crazy that they cut shots from promotional material that never even appeared in the movie. At no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

They seemingly shot from a hybrid version of various drafts mushed together with ideas from the crew thrown in, so it's impossible at this point to tell what was shot and what wasn't aside from the full Introduction with Noomi Rapace. And I remember, after a point she refused to talk about it.

So it just seems like they slipped on a banana peel and rushed the movie together before it was fully ready to go on digital and celluloid, and the result is, a competent, if not confused film from a confused production.

That's just how it looks like to me. I know I keep harping on this but if they really built a shower set for two scenes, one that establishes there even being a shower, and they omitted that from filming, so it just looks like they wanted a random shower scene. That's not only a waste of production, but a bit of an insult to the audience you'd get rid of one but keep the other that suddenly appears and doesn't quite make much sense. I'm not being a prude, I'm just considering that, how many sets did they build that they wanted to shoot longer on. But didn't.

The editing of this movie from the bottom up is just kind of a mess.  I don't hate the film, but I will criticize it for what it did wrong.

And in my opinion? This all seems like they jumped the gun and started production before they were fully ready to make sense of the script's ideas and fully flesh them out, and might have even made drafts while filming began. Who knows what was tossed out, what was replaced, what was deleted vs what was omitted. I could be wrong. But that's just what it looks like if you piece everything together, one draft having things filmed but deleted vs a later draft having those deleted scenes entirely omitted. That's the tell tale sign of, a blunder of some kind of magnitude.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm just thinking out loud putting the pieces together.

Oh well.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/YuIUcPfIv67GU/giphy.gif)

---

If Fox REALLY, REALLY, didn't want the introduction in there, they should have realized that before they spent the money on sets and digital effects that they had to cram in there some appropriate way.

And in a way, as nauseating as it sounds, I see Fox's reasoning for not wanting the introduction. The whole idea does not advance the plot of the characters and you could show David being evil without a flashback sequence awkwardly lacerated from the beginning in later. It seems like they, this is just me speculating I have no idea, but Fox rushed the production forward because they needed the Prometheus sequel soon while people still cared, but they needed more time to flesh things out. The result, is Fox's fault in this scenario (as happens to be the case most of the time), and they realized once it was coming together someone had to tell the Elder Engineer himself, Rupert Murdoch "oh f**k m8 what have we done"

---

Trying to piece this all together is like trying to build a man out of dirt.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 08, 2018, 07:58:57 PM
It's so bizarre how different the older draft is, but has details that aren't in the later draft...that explain the reasoning for building sets and shooting footage (maybe not that far?) and then in a rush to the finish don't know what to do with what was left over from the previous draft you built sets for and spent money on.

The introduction must have cost quite a lot at least. Now we don't get to see it. The shower set was built not only for Ricks and Upworth, but for a communal shower scene after the solar burst as well. Whether or not they filmed it, I don't know. They went so cut crazy that they cut shots from promotional material that never even appeared in the movie. At no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

They seemingly shot from a hybrid version of various drafts mushed together with ideas from the crew thrown in, so it's impossible at this point to tell what was shot and what wasn't aside from the full Introduction with Noomi Rapace. And I remember, after a point she refused to talk about it.

So it just seems like they slipped on a banana peel and rushed the movie together before it was fully ready to go on digital and celluloid, and the result is, a competent, if not confused film from a confused production.

That's just how it looks like to me. I know I keep harping on this but if they really built a shower set for two scenes, one that establishes there even being a shower, and they omitted that from filming, so it just looks like they wanted a random shower scene. That's not only a waste of production, but a bit of an insult to the audience you'd get rid of one but keep the other that suddenly appears and doesn't quite make much sense. I'm not being a prude, I'm just considering that, how many sets did they build that they wanted to shoot longer on. But didn't.

The editing of this movie from the bottom up is just kind of a mess.  I don't hate the film, but I will criticize it for what it did wrong.

And in my opinion? This all seems like they jumped the gun and started production before they were fully ready to make sense of the script's ideas and fully flesh them out, and might have even made drafts while filming began. Who knows what was tossed out, what was replaced, what was deleted vs what was omitted. I could be wrong. But that's just what it looks like if you piece everything together, one draft having things filmed but deleted vs a later draft having those deleted scenes entirely omitted. That's the tell tale sign of, a blunder of some kind of magnitude.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm just thinking out loud putting the pieces together.

Oh well.

https://media.giphy.com/media/YuIUcPfIv67GU/giphy.gif

---

If Fox REALLY, REALLY, didn't want the introduction in there, they should have realized that before they spent the money on sets and digital effects that they had to cram in there some appropriate way.

And in a way, as nauseating as it sounds, I see Fox's reasoning for not wanting the introduction. The whole idea does not advance the plot of the characters and you could show David being evil without a flashback sequence awkwardly lacerated from the beginning in later. It seems like they, this is just me speculating I have no idea, but Fox rushed the production forward because they needed the Prometheus sequel soon while people still cared, but they needed more time to flesh things out. The result, is Fox's fault in this scenario (as happens to be the case most of the time), and they realized once it was coming together someone had to tell the Elder Engineer himself, Rupert Murdoch "oh f**k m8 what have we done"

---

Trying to piece this all together is like trying to build a man out of dirt.

It does have that whiff of Alien3 all over again. Especially with using ideas such as the backburster and pores which were originally from the Gibson script. Many have joked that Alien 3 had so many unused scripts that any films after it have been cannibalized from them. I feel this was the case with Covenant.

QuoteAt no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

If you're referring to the above picture are you sure it's not just a light?

QuoteThat's just how it looks like to me. I know I keep harping on this but if they really built a shower set for two scenes, one that establishes there even being a shower, and they omitted that from filming, so it just looks like they wanted a random shower scene. That's not only a waste of production, but a bit of an insult to the audience you'd get rid of one but keep the other that suddenly appears and doesn't quite make much sense. I'm not being a prude, I'm just considering that, how many sets did they build that they wanted to shoot longer on. But didn't.

This argument seems a little silly.  In Alien they shot one scene in the hypersleep vault.  In Aliens they shot the Derelict exterior with the tractor and cut the whole scene.  Ditto the abbatoir in Alien 3.  Ditto the gunpod intro for Resurrection.  It's not insulting the audience - it's just part of making a movie.

QuoteIf Fox REALLY, REALLY, didn't want the introduction in there, they should have realized that before they spent the money on sets and digital effects that they had to cram in there some appropriate way.

Again, do you know "Fox REALLY, REALLY didn't want the introduction"?

I think only the last act seems rushed, the pace of the movie is pretty much bang on both Alien and Aliens in terms of structure, if you run both Alien and Covenant together from the credits (exclude the David bit) the infection and burst is really close in timing.

It's not until David pulls Oram aside then it just accelerates at lung bursting choppy pace without actually being exciting. 

I'm 70 pages into the new draft and I've not encountered anything yet that I've thought 'I really wish they didn't cut this'.  David's musings about the Engineers and their relationship with humans and synthetics was interesting but not really vital.

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 10:50:58 PM

QuoteAt no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

If you're referring to the above picture are you sure it's not just a light?

It could be a publicity shot, I mean they lead a lot of misleading publicity material about what the film might be about, which I could see why, they didn't want people to figure things out but.

In this script, we have confirmation from Hicks they filmed, via the script the roof of the Juggernaut's Pilot Chair Observatory filters in all sorts of star light. Like an ambient blue light.

That...looks about as close to that description than any. Maybe the publicity shot was motivated? Really I'm not sure. A lot of this makes some sense, and some of it makes no sense.

I'm definitely leaning towards it's a publicity shot of the introduction we never got that was cleansed however.

QuoteThat's just how it looks like to me. I know I keep harping on this but if they really built a shower set for two scenes, one that establishes there even being a shower, and they omitted that from filming, so it just looks like they wanted a random shower scene. That's not only a waste of production, but a bit of an insult to the audience you'd get rid of one but keep the other that suddenly appears and doesn't quite make much sense. I'm not being a prude, I'm just considering that, how many sets did they build that they wanted to shoot longer on. But didn't.

QuoteThis argument seems a little silly.  In Alien they shot one scene in the hypersleep vault.  In Aliens they shot the Derelict exterior with the tractor and cut the whole scene.  Ditto the abbatoir in Alien 3.  Ditto the gunpod intro for Resurrection.  It's not insulting the audience - it's just part of making a movie.

That's not really my point. My point is they rushed into production by building sets meant for an earlier draft,  and then the cutting of the drafts between start getting screwy. See the introduction from this draft that was filmed, but ultimately cut from the next script and out of the movie. It seems like we're missing drafts between time. It feels like they kept adding in ideas and then taking them out, adding then taking them out. Sure that's movie making, but this late in production? They should have planned everything out step by step, beat by beat. There's room for change, but there was so much change on the cutting room floor amidst this seeming rush that they ended up cutting too much, or making unwise pacing decisions.

Every Alien film needs not be a replication of its previous. It's why I adore Alien 3's Assembly Cut. However, I understand the flaws of that picture as well.

To me, it seems less of a fault of the production and more of a fault of the heads at Fox trying their best to ship a sequel before the gains they could make from a sequel to Prometheus went out. Which is understandable. But it's clear that they didn't have enough time, and a lot of these scripts are VERY conceptual. More about ideas for scenes and how they may play out. Add to that the confusion of why they filmed a scene from an older draft...it just seems like they were rushed too hard and that effected a lot of the decisions made in the film.

I like the film. I just think it should not have aimed to play as safe as it did. There's not a lot of memorable shots in Alien Covenant besides the blood bursters and the necropolis.

QuoteIf Fox REALLY, REALLY, didn't want the introduction in there, they should have realized that before they spent the money on sets and digital effects that they had to cram in there some appropriate way.

QuoteAgain, do you know "Fox REALLY, REALLY didn't want the introduction"?

Yeah, they wanted it cut and fought for even the bombing to be excised from the film itself as a flash back. The placing makes...not a whole lot of sense. It went from introduction to recollection and flashback, to heavily cut down version of it. And it was probably a large chunk of money they spent on building the Juggernaut set practical that we just barely see aside from the remnants they released in "Prologue: The Crossing".

I agree with Fox, but they should have stepped in sooner and said "No, we can't spend that much on this set, it doesn't make much narrative sense,  is somewhat gratuitous, and does not connect to the protagonists at all". You can establish this by showing, not telling through flashback, of David's actions. Show the ramifications, we don't need to see the way it happened.

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 11:57:24 PM
I'm 70 pages into the new draft and I've not encountered anything yet that I've thought 'I really wish they didn't cut this'.  David's musings about the Engineers and their relationship with humans and synthetics was interesting but not really vital.

Don't get me wrong I think the final shooting script, in whatever form it was, was superior then this one.

However there are definitely scenes that they omitted they should have kept.

The introductory talking about the disaster remains mostly intact, however, the shower scene and extra padding would have been valuable to keep the audience attached to the characters. You can say the dialogue is corny, but the point is moot because a lot of the dialogue from this, seemingly rough-around-the-edges draft was improved later. Add to filming things from this version, but omitting it out later, it's just kind of a mess to be honest. It would have been a great way to introduce some of the side characters we barely see before things go to shit fairly quickly. It was needed time. The characters felt rushed through to the point the poor back burster bloke's entire personality is "I smoked and stepped on the spore"

Another crucial example that would have been a great set piece, Engineer bodies in whatever "jockey suits", in the hundreds surrounding the port side of the crashed Juggernaut that have been ripped open, with these people having no clue what the f**k they are and getting frightened by it.

That should have been in the film, there's no real reason why they would set down, see an alien space ship, and not freak out. I mean it was a mild reaction in Alien, but the depth was still there in the "Yes....I've never seen anything like it" by Ash. Here it just seems like "Welp, first time I've seen something like this, a person was in it, what a spoof and a goof, alright folks let's leave the set piece, that sure was weird". Now to be fair, you do get a milder version of that "Just what the hell happened here" reaction in the Necropolis, but even that was cut down. A lot of needed time with the characters was cut down, and that makes the audience lose the ability to sympathize with their deaths. You needed, on top of the derelict's reaction to the crew, thematically, them realizing the magnitude of just how much they f**ked up by seeing a hillside covered in black urns and "seemingly" alien bodies (suits) ripped to shreds from the inside out. Add that together with the Necropolis...the whole Paradise Lost angle becomes a lot more visually representative. And it gives the audience time to be in the character's shoes of suddenly being put in the worst imaginable situation.

Next, they were floating around the idea of Karine getting a neomorph burster in her....which makes sense. One of the things that perplexed me the most is that for such an easy way to contaminate yourself, with these pods all over the place, that more people didn't get infected, when one guy just managed the mistake of stepping on one, nearly exactly where Karine was. It seems like they either wanted to elaborate on this later, or this is remnants from a previous draft. Admittedly, the infection is far more muddled in this draft, later they did refine it by adding pods. The fact there were only two Neomorphs (not three) while Karine was within the area to accidentally disrupt a spore, while she was probing the environment. That just kind of screwed with my suspension of disbelief. The fact is they spent so long designing the damn things, and we only get a real good scene of two in the final cut. Add two to the mix in the lander, you could understand why Faris blew up the ship easier. Trying to shoot both at the same time. ]Even more tense with the moth burster occurring not too long after. But this script still only mentions one, when Karine was also infected. I don't know.

So with that in mind, the audience, with a refined idea to the draft, would have seen a hillside covered in dead engineers in their suits, with a crew freaking out about it. Suddenly, three people in the crew get violently ill. They realize, what have we done, a bit more than in the final. One is even carrying the other violently ill person into the lander, both puking blood. They both start hatching and there's nothing Faris can do. It follows as the film does, only she has to deal with two blood bursters, as hinted in the script. She f**ks up trying to shoot both and accidentally hits a gas tank (this makes more sense). One more blood burster erupts. They have three neomorphs now. With the characters realizing, shit any of us could get infected, where did they go. Enter David, they get into the Necropolis, and it's just charred black bodies everywhere they needed to focus on more to get an extra dose of gravity to the situation.

Think of it this way. The whole, "Do you hear that, nothing. No birds, no animals, nothing" would have a lot more weight in the subsequent discovery of hundreds of Jockey bodies everywhere around the derelict with Urns surrounding them.

That just seems like a better way to introduce things. They should have refined these ideas

The introduction with David and Shaw, flash back or beginning, shouldn't have been filmed, in all honesty, and was a waste of man hours and money in my opinion. They could have spent it anywhere else. I'm not saying the pacing is rushed, but the production itself. How they handled it, how Noomi didn't want to talk about it. How it wasn't in the later draft we have, but in this earlier version they filmed. It smells fishy. There was a lot cut they should have left in, and a lot left in they should have left out. It seems just from the cutting process, that they made wild snips that were detrimental to the overall project. You need a nice equal balance to get the audience to understand the situation and the plot. Alien Covenant, for as much as I like it in many respects, did not do that.

I don't like a majority of this draft, it is very rough. But off the top of my head, these additions should have survived the cut. Keeping things at a rapid pace might endanger the overall integrity of what the emotions the narrative wants to give the audience.

I'll say that as an ardent defender of where Ridley is going with the series, I enjoy it. I think it's fascinating, if misguided in film and editing, way of making the setting closer to home as long as I'm watching the fan edits. I like the film, I do not hate it. I'm just saying, with this new information, my opinion is they should have kept some of the scenes and improved the dialogue like they did later, they should have refined it. These seem like nitpicks but, I don't know, it felt like with Covenant I got what they were going for, but they were missing crucial bits to hammer home the horror of the situation they're in. Let the audience accumulate to it. If they really wanted Aliens, they should have shown the consequences in all their brutality. Without it, you feel what they were trying to convey to the audience, but without more, it feels like they cut short

QuoteIt could be a publicity shot, I mean they lead a lot of misleading publicity material about what the film might be about, which I could see why, they didn't want people to figure things out but.

It was a publicity shot.  There's no context other than it appears it was part of the final sequence of Danny and T tracking the Alien.

QuoteSure that's movie making, but this late in production?  They should have planned everything out step by step, beat by beat.

Ridley recast Spacey in All the Money in the World 6 weeks from release.

Is there evidence Fox and Scott built sets they didn't use, or films reels of stuff they didn't use?  They DO plan stuff out, but things change as you go along.  There's very little to suggest there were wholesale changes made during production.  The August 19 draft is very similar to the final film (extra shenanigans on the Covenant with planetary force fields aside), as is the October draft, and they started shooting in April 2016 in NZ.

QuoteI agree with Fox, but they should have stepped in sooner and said "No, we can't spend that much on this set, it doesn't make much narrative sense,  is somewhat gratuitous, and does not connect to the protagonists at all". You can establish this by showing, not telling through flashback, of David's actions. Show the ramifications, we don't need to see the way it happened.

And sacrifice one of the most striking scenes in the film?  I think you've distorted the 'Show, don't tell' rule there, too.  They DO show.  The alternative is David telling Walter what happened.

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 11:57:24 PM
I'm 70 pages into the new draft and I've not encountered anything yet that I've thought 'I really wish they didn't cut this'.  David's musings about the Engineers and their relationship with humans and synthetics was interesting but not really vital.

Not even David's gallery? I think that would've been beautiful. With the wind blowing and all.
Now it's mashed together with his lab.
And the orrery. I loved the orrery in Prometheus. So a different one would've been nice.

Quote from: SM on Mar 09, 2018, 03:55:49 AM

QuoteI agree with Fox, but they should have stepped in sooner and said "No, we can't spend that much on this set, it doesn't make much narrative sense,  is somewhat gratuitous, and does not connect to the protagonists at all". You can establish this by showing, not telling through flashback, of David's actions. Show the ramifications, we don't need to see the way it happened.

And sacrifice one of the most striking scenes in the film?  I think you've distorted the 'Show, don't tell' rule there, too.  They DO show.  The alternative is David telling Walter what happened.

I think the Alternative is not overplaying your hand, and letting the horror sink in that everything is dead because of David. Leave the genocide to your own imagination, horror is better not shown. Though I agree it was striking. But it seemed a bit, I don't know, it would have been more effective in my own opinion if David didn't over explain and just simply said "I killed them all, nothing more nothing less". The fact is that there should have been more striking visuals with the concepts they were working with. I also think the Necropolis is an even more striking visual, they just cut most of the travel through it out.

I would've preferred a bit more explanation - some of which comes later in his 'lab' with Oram.

The actual scene of the bombing doesn't have any explaining and the imagery is so quickly cut that we don't know whether the Engineers are vomiting or birthing monsters.

Quote from: SM on Mar 09, 2018, 05:43:01 AM
I would've preferred a bit more explanation - some of which comes later in his 'lab' with Oram.

The actual scene of the bombing doesn't have any explaining and the imagery is so quickly cut that we don't know whether the Engineers are vomiting or birthing monsters.

I suppose. The development of A to B to C, even with the scene, was rather sparse. I still hold the less shown would have been better, because it leaves it even more up to your imagination what god awful shit David did to get to this point. Like he was running Japan's Unit 731 on the Engineers and had one right there splayed. Maybe more time observing his lab. David and Shirō Ishii have a lot in common in being hellbent biological weapon testers, on living subjects and dead, prisoners of war. You didn't need to see how the nest was built in Aliens, yet the implication of all these bodies everywhere is probably enough to feed your mind with all sorts of images.

Though,

I think the greatest sin this movie made was creating a fantastic premise. Colony ship made up of couples, lands on World From Hell, Your Wife and Your Husband are Toast

And yet aside from Daniels...Oram just gets up and gets used to it. Most of these characters get up and get used to it. That's something jarring that's in both scripts. I know it's a crisis situation and everything, but it didn't feel like they tried hard enough exploring the character's dynamics with that then Daniels. I mean it's a brilliant concept for an Alien film, but I didn't see it fully utilized.

There's something the two scripts, and the movie suffer from. It should have been more like James Cameron's Abyss, where Ed Harris goes f**k it mask off and starts screaming at his wife to fight to live after she stopped responding.

Oram doesn't really have a choice.  He has one scene that comes close to wallowing, and Daniels bucks him up.

We really needed the "Paradise/Crossing" footage in the movie to link Prometheus and Covenant together, the movie itself needed it.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 09, 2018, 03:04:22 AM

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 10:50:58 PM

QuoteAt no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

If you're referring to the above picture are you sure it's not just a light?

It could be a publicity shot, I mean they lead a lot of misleading publicity material about what the film might be about, which I could see why, they didn't want people to figure things out but.

Publicity shots should be illegal, is fake publicity. There has been a trend for years now of putting A LOT of stuff in the trailers (Suicide Squad, Justice League, Rogue One to name just a few) that is nowhere to be found in the movies, or downright sell a different movie with a trailer totally different in tone to what they actually made (Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3 come to mind), is just wrong.

Quote from: D88M on Mar 09, 2018, 01:14:07 PM
We really needed the "Paradise/Crossing" footage in the movie to link Prometheus and Covenant together, the movie itself needed it.

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 09, 2018, 03:04:22 AM

Quote from: SM on Mar 08, 2018, 10:50:58 PM

QuoteAt no point in any promotional material, or in the film, does the Covenant catch fire. And yet they filmed it for a promotion, and made the set up, and never used it.

If you're referring to the above picture are you sure it's not just a light?

It could be a publicity shot, I mean they lead a lot of misleading publicity material about what the film might be about, which I could see why, they didn't want people to figure things out but.

Publicity shots should be illegal, is fake publicity. There has been a trend for years now of putting A LOT of stuff in the trailers (Suicide Squad, Justice League, Rogue One to name just a few) that is nowhere to be found in the movies, or downright sell a different movie with a trailer totally different in tone to what they actually made (Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3 come to mind), is just wrong.

Well all that stuff from those trailers you mention are actually from the first cuts,before they all had reshoots

QuotePublicity shots should be illegal, is fake publicity.

Are we going to make it a crime to read too much into every single piece of information that comes out about a film?  Someone go round up a large chunk of Youtube and lock them up.

Quote from: SM on Mar 09, 2018, 08:37:39 PM

QuotePublicity shots should be illegal, is fake publicity.

Are we going to make it a crime to read too much into every single piece of information that comes out about a film?  Someone go round up a large chunk of Youtube and lock them up.

Reminds me of when everyone was over analyzing the shit out of every last frame of True Detective season one.

Something I noticed, in this script, and obviously scripts prior to it, the Engineer's city was, just that, a city. With buildings. There's no great big hole in the middle.

However in the last act of this script, they're in a part of a city that's a sporting arena. And almost all of the Engineers are located at this area when the bomb is dropped. So while waiting for Tennesse, you get a good glimpse at all the petrified Engineers, in the Colosseum trying to run, in and outside of it. In the center of the arena are Giger-esque objects of unknown purpose.  The script takes a pause to consider, what they were doing here. The script basically asks whoever was reading it, to try and figure out for themselves why they're all in an arena when they died. It's just a set piece, the Engineers were playing some weird Roman or Meso-American sport. The rest was organized like a city, basically.

Subsequently when the script changed, and so did the overall plan and design for the city it seems.

see here
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/008/562/378/large/tamas-gyerman-01.jpg?1513588035)
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/251/175/large/neptune-mentor-nmentor-ali-004.jpg?1504780152)
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/251/179/large/neptune-mentor-nmentor-ali-003.jpg?1504780159)


Buildings are built around a giant open space. As if, it was an arena.

I'm just shooting the shit at this point, but the details match so much that Ridley may have just decided "let's make the whole city sort of designed like a Colosseum. This script mentions "bizarre Giger like objects" near the center. Gus's what's in the center in the movie, the few Juggernauts in the in the middle, underneath an opening, and the mother juggernaut floating. The script changes the Mother Jugggernaut's location from the atmosphere in this script and in concept art

see here:
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/128/259/large/steve-burg-mothership-sb-shot-01-20160919-005-resize.jpg?1496239535)

to here:
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/005/938/363/large/wayne-haag-mother-jugger-lowpov-2k.jpg?1494857811)

The middle. Exactly where the script says the "giger like objects" in the Colosseum they ran into in the finale were.

That's really odd, and the similarities are undeniable. You go from what a city looks like, to the plans of the set described in a scene in the finale in a gladiatorial-esque Colosseum. That might imply a lot. It might not, but I have a feeling there was a reason the layout of the city quickly changed between August (the month of this draft) and November ( the month of the last draft we have). It feels like a Ridley made decision, one can only speculate as to why that may be. The Engineers weren't congregating to meet David in this draft either, they were minding their own business, which was mostly to watch some sort of game the majority got petrified in.

So, in conclusion via design of the city and the design of this script's finale

You chance the design of the city into one with a vast open space surrounded by, rows if you will., that's check You have specific placement of Giger objects, check. An audience congregating to said arena waving and having a good time when they get bombed, check. The finale taking place in an open public space...check.

When David arrives, they really do act like its a sporting event of unknown play or purpose. They changed the structure of the city to look like the Colosseum

(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/251/177/large/neptune-mentor-nmentor-ali-002.jpg?1504780156)

I think people can fill in the dots from here.

I thought it's designed to look similar to religious places of importance, like Vatican City or Mekka.
Those often have a big square near an important building or object. The round main building in Covenant is very similar to stupas (old buddhist temples).
And those people in the last picture remind me of people looking up at the Pope when he's delivering a message.

That Engineer with the hat still gets me. :laugh:

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Mar 10, 2018, 05:49:55 AM
I thought it's designed to look similar to religious places of importance, like Vatican City or Mekka.
Those often have a big square near an important building or object. The round main building in Covenant is very similar to stupas (old buddhist temples).
And those people in the last picture remind me of people looking up at the Pope when he's delivering a message.

The way the city is designed is almost 1:1 how the set of the climax of this script's Colosseum/Stadium. It could be both. The only time Scott seems to allow the albino blue man group joy is when they're practicing some Alien form of Catholic Communion anyways. Sports as a religious practice has existed before. My point was just that it's oddly just designed the way the climax of this script (on Planet 4) ends. It could be anything from an aesthetic choice, to a choice to simplify locations, to a choice about the relations the Engineers feel towards, whatever it is they're doing, maybe they see the war truck coming back as a good omen. Could be all of these things, one of these things, or it could be none of these things.

But this city is designed exactly like the Colosseum Lope and "Grif" in near the end of this script

---

Quote from: KiramidHead on Mar 10, 2018, 05:53:44 AM
That Engineer with the hat still gets me. :laugh:

More evidence this city is designed as their best attempt to recreate Earth's Citi Field

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 10, 2018, 02:06:05 AM
see here
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/008/562/378/large/tamas-gyerman-01.jpg?1513588035)

The detail of the citadel is pretty impressive, it's a visual feast!

Thanks for posting the scripts, Hicks.

Thank you ! Any chance to share The Predator script soon ?

Not until a bit after the film's release.

hey does anyone know about the original plot for prometheus 2 before it became Paradise Lost?

From what I've been able to learn it actually isn't as drastic a difference as we all expect. I think I've mentioned it in the past but I've managed to talk to someone who was on the film pre-dating John Logan and Dante Harper and they said the narrative was pretty much the same. The only major difference was that Shaw survived to meet up with the crew and that David had some strange pet creatures.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 15, 2018, 01:13:55 PM
From what I've been able to learn it actually isn't as drastic a difference as we all expect. I think I've mentioned it in the past but I've managed to talk to someone who was on the film pre-dating John Logan and Dante Harper and they said the narrative was pretty much the same. The only major difference was that Shaw survived to meet up with the crew and that David had some strange pet creatures.

The narritive might been the same but a different version might have been better.
And like you said, Shaw surviving and meeting up with the crew is a major difference. I think it implies she had at least some dialogue.
Perhaps it would've made the transition between Prometheus and Covenant better.
David pet creatures were supposed to hunt and kill people. Could've been in place of the neomorphs.
But I'm thinking they might take the victims alive so David could experiment on them.
Time will tell...

Finally finished reading this. The only scene that would've been nice to see was Griffin and the facehugger. The escape from the planet was better in the film. The climax wasn't bad, but ultimately still better in the film. Ultimately I think the issue with the last half hour or so is the pace. It stops once they get back to the ship, then needs to start up again when there's no time to do so.

Thanks Corporal!

The Prologue is brutal!

So, The Crossing means between Shaw or David? Between Prometheus 2 or Alien:Covenant?

Ultimately, David won.

This is fascinating, I just read the prologue and it was dark!
Gonna check out the script in a bit.

I really want to see the 2014 and earlier scripts where there was a lot of change with the original ideas!

Keep it up guys!

Thank you for the scripts Hicks! I've only read the Prologue so far, and it was fascinating to read what I presume was originally shot for Shaw going by past interviews.

I presume the footage is being held back for possible inclusion as a flashback for the next film.

QuoteA long, snaking, tendril-like CABLE extends from the SHIP, reaching out, tethering to DAVID'S BROKEN BODY, ATTACHING.

Hello!

QuoteHe gently reaches out .. She doesn't flinch. He touches her cheek. She looks at him.

SHAW
Are you going to kill me now?

DAVID
Why would I do that, Elizabeth?

He smiles, his face utterly readable.

Oh FFS, who hires these people?

Thanks again, Hicks!

Regarding the early story versions from Paglen/Green/Harper, did your contacts by chance speak about some of the things that got revealed in unused concept art like elongated Engineer heads, parasitic worms bursting out of infected Engineers, more exotic versions of goo-altered plant life, and all the Giger-esque portrayals of David growing things with the goo?

Do you think those drafts will ever see the light of day?

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Mar 19, 2018, 11:35:54 AM

QuoteA long, snaking, tendril-like CABLE extends from the SHIP, reaching out, tethering to DAVID'S BROKEN BODY, ATTACHING.

Hello!

QuoteHe gently reaches out .. She doesn't flinch. He touches her cheek. She looks at him.

SHAW
Are you going to kill me now?

DAVID
Why would I do that, Elizabeth?

He smiles, his face utterly readable.

Oh FFS, who hires these people?

Because, of course, every word of a script draft has to be profound poetry.

Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2018, 10:24:00 PM

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Mar 19, 2018, 11:35:54 AM

QuoteA long, snaking, tendril-like CABLE extends from the SHIP, reaching out, tethering to DAVID'S BROKEN BODY, ATTACHING.

Hello!

QuoteHe gently reaches out .. She doesn't flinch. He touches her cheek. She looks at him.

SHAW
Are you going to kill me now?

DAVID
Why would I do that, Elizabeth?

He smiles, his face utterly readable.

Oh FFS, who hires these people?

Because, of course, every word of a script draft has to be profound poetry.

To be fair this was a very very rough draft, just hitting off story beats. Still, I wish some of the imagery was in here. Dead Engineers in their Suits surrounding the Derelict in the hundreds is far more foreboding, right before it all goes to shit. Kareen being a victim of the spores as well as Ledward. And especially at the end, one of the beasts trying desperately to rip your space/ice suit open, and shooting its  tongue at your visor multiple times. But not getting through after twice. I know in most movies it would have shot right through, but the idea you're pinned to the ground by this thing, and it's shooting its jaws right into your face, cracking the visor harder each time, that's a f**king terrifying image. Reminds me of the first Jurassic Park, when the Tyrannosaurus blast through the sunroof.

There's a lot of imagery in here I think should have stayed, while the rest of the script remained mostly the same.

---

Another scene needed (that weren't in either script I read) I think, is Orrem and David bickering about God in the temple. Something along the lines of

Orrem: "These things, the city, they look just like us. What is going on, how can this be possible"
David: "They are your Gods"
Orrem: "That's not possible, God created man in his own image"
David: "So did they."

Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2018, 10:24:00 PMBecause, of course, every word of a script draft has to be profound poetry.

Nope, just not so awful.

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Mar 22, 2018, 12:35:25 PM

Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2018, 10:24:00 PMBecause, of course, every word of a script draft has to be profound poetry.

Nope, just not so awful.

Rough drafts that come right after a treatment tend to be awful. There's some gems, I actually like some of this (not all of it) more than what we got in terms of tension. Like the Alien shooting its tongue out at "Griffin's" visor, only not to break it, trying to rip into the suit. And shoots its tongue out again, and again, as the visor begins to buckle before she shoots the airlock open. There are a lot of good ideas in this script that I would have loved to see, but a lot I wouldn't have. But, this is from 2015. Three years prior.

I know it's awful, but not for the reasons you and I might agree on. The writing crew working out, what can we do with the Alien that we've never done before, was fairly interesting. Like an Alien pinning someone in an armored space suit down but being unable to get in, as they're pinned to the ground. That would have been great to see.

There's a number of things I'd love to  have seen, and I'm perplexed why they didn't include it.

Why is the Shaw/David stuff so shit though? These are THE ONLY CHARACTERS.

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Mar 22, 2018, 12:50:18 PM
Why is the Shaw/David stuff so shit though?

Probably because it was from an earlier treatment and they were just shooting the shit how to handle it. Eventually they made the right call not to show it.

You would be surprised how many early drafts of movies you might like are pretty shitty. It's just kind of going with the flow, and improving upon it later. It's about throwing ideas out there even if they read horrible. That's where further drafting begins.

It's just disappointing that, with so many talented writers, they seemed to--much as with Prometheus--fall back on some really basic, skimming the surface plot elements. I think it's the direct product of too many cooks in the kitchen (and Scott being unclear about what he thinks and wants), and what we got with A:C was entertaining and had some effective bits, but ultimately diluted what could have been a fascinating narrative and undermined the entire film that came before it.

I'm sure at some point there were treatments and pitches to divide David and Shaw in space with another crew, either with the Covenant colony or a team looking for evidence of what happened to the Prometheus, and they were vetoed because the film might feel choppy or something. But isn't that what a great director is for? The flashback sequence in A:C was fun to look at, but it still looked sloppy and shoehorned. And leaving it out would have been even worse. Making the Shaw/David story a real part of the fabric of the film would have solved this.

If they agree to make one final film, I do hope they allow ONE writer to really figure out how to make the pieces fit together in a way that makes a bit more sense of what's been put out there and advances us forward toward the original film's timeline (or beyond).