Am I the only one who hates Alien: Covenant with a passion?
I hate the fact that the android David destroyed a nation of space jockeys in a scene and also created the xenomorph species.
It's like Alien: Covenant wanted to make David as the focus of the Alien franchise instead of the xenomorphs and the Space Jockeys.
Am I the only one who loves Alien: Covenant with a passion?
I love the fact that the android David destroyed a nation of space jockeys in a scene and also created the xenomorph species.
It's like Alien: Covenant wanted to make David as the focus of this particular film instead of the xenomorphs and the Space Jockeys.
I hate Prometheus more. Covenant is still a fun sci-fi movie.
but dude, you don't need to hate it. just DISREGARD it.
No I Dont Hate It. Just Wasn T The Direction I Was Hoping The Franchise Would Take.
I Consider The Prequel Series As A "Could Be" . Head Canon. Even If It Is Mc(Main Canon). To Me The Space Jockey Is An Alien Being Dead On An Alien Space Ship Both Of Unknown Origin.
It No Longer Bother S Me That The Space Jockey Is Something Else Now.
I Can Still Enjoy Both Prequel Films For The Possibilities They Represent But In A Slightly Diminished Way For Covenant.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 11, 2023, 02:41:32 AMAm I the only one who loves Alien: Covenant with a passion?
I love the fact that the android David destroyed a nation of space jockeys in a scene and also created the xenomorph species.
It's like Alien: Covenant wanted to make David as the focus of this particular film instead of the xenomorphs and the Space Jockeys.
Preach 'em, brother !
Quote from: bobby brown on Aug 11, 2023, 05:49:12 AMI hate Prometheus more. Covenant is still a fun sci-fi movie.
but dude, you don't need to hate it. just DISREGARD it.
I also hate more Prometheus than Covenant. Covenant at least has his good things and nice ideas, Prometheus lacks of all that. Prometheus was wrong and it was a failure since the moment that Ridley decided to not to do an full Alien prequel
Quote from: GetThat81 on Aug 11, 2023, 02:40:44 AMAm I the only one who hates Alien: Covenant with a passion?
No, it seems plenty of people do.
QuoteI hate the fact that the android David destroyed a nation of space jockeys in a scene and also created the xenomorph species.
Cool. I thought it was an impressive scene. I'm also not sure those were space jockeys as such, and there's probably a lot of xenomorph species, I think you mean The Alien.
QuoteIt's like Alien: Covenant wanted to make David as the focus of the Alien franchise instead of the xenomorphs and the Space Jockeys.
Yes, it feels like Ridley wanted to focus on that stuff. It was a fun movie.
I'll always consider the bigger offense (and it had many offenses) to be Prometheus making the Space Jockey's tall blue skinned humans (rather than biological/technological 15 foot constructs like was implied in the original movie) who grunt like kids on the spectrum over David creating the Alien. David was also much more interesting in Covenant than he was in Prometheus.
To me Prometheus f**king killed the movies. Covenant tried to get some of the magic back, but it just wasn't enough to save the series final revolution down the drain.
Covenant was mediocre overall film with some cool sequences and visuals. Prometheus was f**king trash. Not the little waste bin you have under your desk you throw wadded up pieces of paper in, but the whole outside rolling bin. Maybe even the whole landfill.
I am merely responding to this post, so people don't think Prometheus is an OK film. >:(
Ridley just loves David, its his movie, he is the star, I like some of the symbolism David story can have but nah I'm more interested in the Alien.
Indeed.
David should've been a major subplot. Not the main plot.
You could argue that Covenant following Prometheus was on a trilogy/multiple film story arc.
You couldn't have a creature that don't speak as the main protagonist to bridge the narrative, be awful dull after awhile
David just wanted a willy
Why couldn't they just make Fifield the main character?
Too colourful. Only straight-laced characters live in these movies.
It is frankly f**king criminal what they did with all that talent in Prometheus.
Rafe Spall's an amazing dramatic actor in White Christmas where he conveys horror in a gut wrenching way. Sean Harris' also amazing alongside Fassy in Macbeth and in The Stranger.
Logan Marshall-Green in Upgrade's maybe the best example of this, his performance quality's night and day with Prommy.
Scott always assures fine talent. But somehow it doesn't always gell.
I did not enjoy the movie, but the novelization was much better.
Third best film behind Alien and Aliens.
Quote from: SM on Oct 24, 2023, 08:42:48 PMThird best film behind Alien and Aliens.
Over Prometheus?
4th best movie after Alien, Alien 3 and Aliens
Quote from: SM on Oct 24, 2023, 08:42:48 PMThird best film behind Alien and Aliens.
AC is better than the AC?? :o
Quote from: littlesprout on Oct 24, 2023, 10:22:53 PMQuote from: SM on Oct 24, 2023, 08:42:48 PMThird best film behind Alien and Aliens.
Over Prometheus?
Covenant was more of a complete film. Prometheus asks a question than answers it halfway, that asks another question that it never answers. And spins its wheels a bit in the second half with return trips to the temple pyramid thing. So it's fourth best.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 24, 2023, 11:12:19 PMQuote from: SM on Oct 24, 2023, 08:42:48 PMThird best film behind Alien and Aliens.
AC is better than the AC?? :o
By a fair margin.
It's likely a reboot of the franchise because most viewers had never seen the earlier movies. Similar happened to Mad Max and others.
Huh?
Quote from: ralfy on Oct 25, 2023, 11:37:44 PMIt's likely a reboot of the franchise because most viewers had never seen the earlier movies. Similar happened to Mad Max and others.
No. It's not.
And for that matter, Fury Road isn't a franchise reboot either. It's just another tale of Max in the Wasteland, as all of the sequels have been.
I like Covenant..
Quote from: Stitch on Oct 26, 2023, 08:57:32 AMQuote from: ralfy on Oct 25, 2023, 11:37:44 PMIt's likely a reboot of the franchise because most viewers had never seen the earlier movies. Similar happened to Mad Max and others.
No. It's not.
Just the production design of the prequels show a world far different from the retro design of the first few movies.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 26, 2023, 10:59:55 AMAnd for that matter, Fury Road isn't a franchise reboot either. It's just another tale of Max in the Wasteland, as all of the sequels have been.
I think it's a reboot because Max's son became a daughter, although some argue that it was someone else's child or that Max was hallucinating. Also, the car shows up, although some argue that it's another car or that Max was hallucinating as well.
Miller implies that it's a reboot:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/cannes-how-george-miller-rebooted-794780/
although weirdly enough, the comic book version of the movie makes it a sequel to the third movie. That point will be hard to explain unless one brings in the hallucination angle.
In any event, I'm guessing that most young people who saw the movie were not able to watch the first three movies, which is why the writers decided to just retell the first movie briefly in order to give context to Max's situation, and then repeat the main storyline of the second movie (chasing the truck) plus borrow ideas from the third movie (the community dependent on a tyrannical leader for resources).
Similar likely happened to the prequels: most young people who saw them did not watch the first four movies. At the same time, they've been used to movies with lots of CGI. So producers upped the production design and borrowed elements from the first few movies (like the ship travelling to a planet to explore and discover alien organisms, a tall heroine with short, black hair, white T-shirt, and sneakers, a crew member named "Tennessee," and so on).
BTW, similar happened to the
Star Wars sequels, with the young urchin on a desert planet, another WMD, and so on.
I have a friend who loves horror and she isn't familiar with Alien at all, this was her Alien movie which she watched in theaters, her opinion was "this was the first movie to unironically put me to sleep in theaters, I'm not joking."
Covenant is not a horror movie. Also, she watched it out of context. I'm not surprised she was bored as horror lover.
I would say Covenant is a horror movie (it's pretty gnarly, and it's the meanest one of these has been since Alien 3). But I'd also say it's a pretty terrible entry point to the series. So much of what makes it interesting is the way it twists and plays on what you already know from the original film.
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Oct 27, 2023, 04:42:34 PMI have a friend who loves horror and she isn't familiar with Alien at all, this was her Alien movie which she watched in theaters, her opinion was "this was the first movie to unironically put me to sleep in theaters, I'm not joking."
While I'm not a huge fan of
Covenant, I think the medbay scene is probably one of the best bits of horror/fright I've seen in a long time. The music alone for that scene -- that rising tachycardia-inducing music -- is sublime.
It's listed as a sci-fi horror movie in many sites.
In light of that, what made the first movie remarkable is the use of suspense, with the creature not fully revealed until the end.
Since the second movie couldn't repeat that, it focused on action. Similar took place for the third and fourth movies.
With the prequels, the focus was on the origins story, with elements borrowed from the first few movies, like another landing and exploration and a heroine who looks like Ripley.
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 27, 2023, 09:05:33 PMCovenant is not a horror movie. Also, she watched it out of context. I'm not surprised she was bored as horror lover.
Covenant is an horror movie and it's made in a way non fans can also watch it, like Prometheus
I've never personally considered Prometheus/Covenant as horror movies per se. For me, elements of gore and horror don't necessary make movie a horror.
Covenant is thoroughly a horror movie, from its body horror elements to its gothic horror elements. Claiming otherwise is bizarre.
Then my personal claim is bizzare. I'm fine with that.
What horror movie we call a horror if one doesn't feel any sense of threat at all? I haven't felt any while watching Covenant. If it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 11:52:19 AMIf it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Yes, that's how it works. It's a horror movie - if you feel nothing then it's a bad one. But it's still a horror movie.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 07:42:21 PMQuote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 11:52:19 AMIf it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Yes, that's how it works. It's a horror movie - if you feel nothing then it's a bad one. But it's still a horror movie.
Like Alien 3?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 28, 2023, 08:38:09 PMQuote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 07:42:21 PMQuote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 11:52:19 AMIf it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Yes, that's how it works. It's a horror movie - if you feel nothing then it's a bad one. But it's still a horror movie.
Like Alien 3?
I think the 30 years of teeth-gnashing and despair over Hix'n'Noot alone qualifies it as existential horror.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 07:42:21 PMQuote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 11:52:19 AMIf it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Yes, that's how it works. It's a horror movie - if you feel nothing then it's a bad one. But it's still a horror movie.
Well, that's your take. Technically speaking you're right, however for me if a comedy doesn't make me laugh then it's hard to call it a comedy. What's a point in calling a movie comedy if it doesn't meet its conditions (being a comedy)? It's pointless. Exactly the same applies to horror movies. You might call Covenant a horror but there is barely any horror in it (and I don't mean gore and so on).
By the way, I like Covenant as a sci-fi but as a horror? No way.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Oct 28, 2023, 08:39:35 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Oct 28, 2023, 08:38:09 PMQuote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 07:42:21 PMQuote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 11:52:19 AMIf it is a horror then it's very poor one.
Yes, that's how it works. It's a horror movie - if you feel nothing then it's a bad one. But it's still a horror movie.
Like Alien 3?
I think the 30 years of teeth-gnashing and despair over Hix'n'Noot alone qualifies it as existential horror.
I still find it hilarious that James Cameron cried fowl over Hicks and Newt... and then produced and endorsed Terminator Dark Fate, killing John in the opening 🤣 David Fincher was simply ahead of his time. 😊
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 08:50:50 PMWell, that's your take. Technically speaking you're right, however for me if a comedy doesn't make me laugh then it's hard to call it a comedy. What's a point in calling a movie comedy if it doesn't meet its conditions (being a comedy)? It's pointless.
Gore is part of horror. Horror is about feelings of fear, revulsion and disgust. You don't just need to be scared.
The point in calling a comedy a comedy even if you didn't find it funny is that somebody else might, and because that's what it's meant to be.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 09:01:43 PMGore is part of horror. Horror is about feelings of fear, revulsion and disgust. You don't just need to be scared.
Gore
can be part of horror. Not every horror has gore elements. It's not necessary. Also, gore is an element of movies which are not horror but it's all semantics anyway. An the end of the day it doesn't truly matter. What matters for me is if I enjoy a movie or not.
Being scared is probably the main element of horror as genre and Covenant isn't scary at all. Also, I know that horror is about feeling of fear, revulsion and disgust, as you said, but I simply didn't feel any of it in Covenant depside the fact I enjoyed it which is the most important thing in watching movies.
Great. So you think it's a bad horror movie.
It's still a horror movie.
Good Christ this thread...
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
Alien Covenant, is a misdirect to me, in an unintended way. By this, the dichotomy is that the movie's genius is a flaw because of Prometheus' connection to Covenant.
I like Covenant. It doesn't f**k around, haha.
Worst scene in the entire movie. Its suppose to be what? Heartwarming? That music track during this scene. the esthetic of the mini-xeno. Makes utter no sense to me. The rest of the film is absolutely memorable as hell though.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 29, 2023, 12:20:56 AM(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
Don't think it was intended to be "heartwarming".
It's the beauty of birth and a father seeing his offspring for the first time, corrupted into something disturbing as with everything David touches.
The most heartwarming thing in the prequels was Fifield's death. >:(
He dies twice though.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 02, 2023, 12:12:45 AMHe dies twice though.
A million deaths are not enough for Fifield. >:(
God, I hated that son of a bitch.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 02, 2023, 12:12:45 AMHe dies twice though.
But not every man really lives twice.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 01, 2023, 11:15:04 PMIt's the beauty of birth and a father seeing his offspring for the first time, corrupted into something disturbing as with everything David touches.
Having been present for the birth of my son, if anything, the
Covenant scene is wholesome in comparison.
Well yeah, there's a lot less swearing and pooping.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 02, 2023, 03:59:18 AMWell yeah, there's a lot less swearing and pooping.
There was no pooping.
But there is a lot more afterbirth.
Whats even more wrong is that five minutes later, the mini xeno turns into a full sized monster. SMH.
Aliens growing quick was established in the first film - and re-established with the Neomorphs in this film.
Quote from: SM on Nov 03, 2023, 12:25:44 AMAliens growing quick was established in the first film - and re-established with the Neomorphs in this film.
How much time passed between Kane popping and Brett getting murked? I need an official ruling.
Not enough time for Brett to have any reason to suspect before his encounter with the Alien that this son of a bitch is huge! I mean, it's like a man. It's... it's big!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 03, 2023, 12:40:09 AMQuote from: SM on Nov 03, 2023, 12:25:44 AMAliens growing quick was established in the first film - and re-established with the Neomorphs in this film.
How much time passed between Kane popping and Brett getting murked? I need an official ruling.
Couple of hours.
Quote from: SM on Nov 03, 2023, 12:25:44 AMAliens growing quick was established in the first film - and re-established with the Neomorphs in this film.
Yeah but hours, not minutes.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 03, 2023, 12:48:00 AMNot enough time for Brett to have any reason to suspect before his encounter with the Alien that this son of a bitch is huge! I mean, it's like a man. It's... it's big!
Does the Alien in Covenant not get born during the night and it is an adult by morning or am I misremembering?
Both of them are born and grow very rapidly.
You could make an argument that it's longer than "minutes" in Covenant but it's cut very quickly plus the day night cycle on the planet is quite short.
The script specifically mentions the Neomorphs almost growing before our eyes.
Like the giant scorpions from Clash of the Titans?
Just like the giant scorpions from Clash of the Titans.
I haven't seen this movie since it came out, Harley remember a lot of things about it but I do like the Neomorph a lot
Guess i need to suspend my disbelief on this one. Magic wins. I do think the neomorph merges quite well with the new pathogen aliens. I wonder if they would put those in film one day.
I hated this movie. Hated hated hated hated hated this movie. Hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.
That's a shame.
I especially hate that you dig it! >:(
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/l0ErVVeF9Z58NDtRu/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 03, 2023, 06:30:33 PMI hated this movie. Hated hated hated hated hated this movie. Hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.
Ohh wow! :o👆
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/north-1994
I loved the film like I loved the Passion of the Christ. Are you saying its not on par with the Passion?
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/231104/xir38imd.jpg)
Quote from: kwisatz on Nov 04, 2023, 12:32:33 AMhttps://s20.directupload.net/images/231104/xir38imd.jpg
I like to eat sand
One thing i speculate about incubation time is the Facehugger implantation variations.
I like to think the facehugger in Alien stayed on Kane's face longer than Oram or Lope in AC, due to the eggs being in stasis on lv426 for a period of time, so the metabolism of its purpose was slower.
It's funny at the dinner before Kane chestbusts that Ash is observing Kane closely as if he's waiting for it to happen at any moment.
In Aliens, the incubation time of the first face hugging of Newts Dad might have taken as long as Kane but a few more face huggings after and the Queen & nest established, the incubation period then speeds up a bit again.
Of note in Alien 3 is the Queen incubation time in Ripley that we see takes a week. I thought maybe the hypersleep Ripley was under at the time would have had an effect but as the source of the egg in Sulaco is a unsolved mystery hard to say
The creatures in the prequels you could argue are 1st generation, fresh from the source & potent with the black goo so their incubation periods and growth rates are much quicker as a result
I don't hate it. I just find it to be a missed opportunity, and I don't like the way they introduced the capital A Alien (or protomorph or whatever they call it).
I actually prefer ALIEN: COVENANT over PROMETHEUS.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 03, 2023, 09:26:36 PMI especially hate that you dig it! >:(
https://media4.giphy.com/media/l0ErVVeF9Z58NDtRu/giphy.gif
That's a shame.
I think the score's superb.
I loved Goldsmith's material get more of a workout than it did in Alien. And the original stuff is nice too.
The repurposed Alien: Covenant score is the only thing that grabbed my attention in the dreadful A Quiet Place trailers.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 01, 2023, 06:39:07 PMWorst scene in the entire movie. Its suppose to be what? Heartwarming? That music track during this scene. the esthetic of the mini-xeno. Makes utter no sense to me. The rest of the film is absolutely memorable as hell though.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 29, 2023, 12:20:56 AM(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
In Alien it's horrific from the crew's perspective. In Covenant it's beautiful from David's POV. I thought it was a nice touch. It also works well because of the juxtaposition, which is sort of akin to the romantic score when Dallas is in the vents in Alien, for instance.
Not a big fan of the spindly Mini Chap (miniature Big Chap). I far prefer the traditional and brutal-looking chestburster.
TC
Quote from: GetThat81 on Aug 11, 2023, 02:40:44 AMAm I the only one who hates Alien: Covenant with a passion?
I hate the fact that the android David destroyed a nation of space jockeys in a scene and also created the xenomorph species.
It's like Alien: Covenant wanted to make David as the focus of the Alien franchise instead of the xenomorphs and the Space Jockeys.
Not alone. I'm still not sure why certain fans of the original films love Covenant/Prometheus, they have none of the qualities of the original and ruin Alien's legacy in the process.
Imagine today's kids seeing Prometheus and Covenant before Alien. Both are terrible films (yeah Prometheus is pretty, like a high-end fragrance advertisement) in their own right, but how they affect the original films is criminal. If I had a button in front of me that would make the new prequels vanish from existence, I'd press it immediately. So safe to say I hate them passionately.
At least Alien: Resurrection has some redeemable elements and actually feels like a movie. The visual identity (even if it is largely brown) provided by Jenuet and Co, the cast with Weaver and Jenuet's regulars, some memorable set pieces easily put it above the prequels. Which are at least as stupid but without anything redeemable.
Quote from: reecebomb on Nov 15, 2023, 03:01:29 PMbut how they affect the original films is criminal
Sounds like you're letting the marketing concept of canon cuck you out of a good time.
Wondering which qualities they lack, which legacy is ruined, and indeed the concept of "original films". I'm guessing Resurrection doesn't - do the other three that were spread out over 13 years?
They all upset me. >:(
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 15, 2023, 08:50:45 PMQuote from: reecebomb on Nov 15, 2023, 03:01:29 PMbut how they affect the original films is criminal
Sounds like you're letting the marketing concept of canon cuck you out of a good time.
Why are you so based
That's because they keep making upsetting movies.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l1KukwtKoeWV8sPWE/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 29, 2023, 12:20:56 AM(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
Awwwww <3
(https://i.ibb.co/nsv7gQZ/BCcc-YY5-Cc-AAz-M7-D-jpg-large.jpg)
I found the scene cute, like the baby velociraptor from
Jurassic Park. I don't mind at all, after all even real life deadly animals are really cute when they are newborns, before they are able to tears us apart. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/pWDVSm6/Picsart-23-11-22-12-34-52-309.jpg)
That being said, I think David was contemplating his creation, as he did with the Neomorph, and as his creator did with him; creator-creation dynamics ala
Frankenstein.
(https://i.ibb.co/XX5BvYD/Picsart-23-11-22-12-45-47-790.jpg)
(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/SRQo8.gif)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 22, 2023, 04:09:11 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 29, 2023, 12:20:56 AM(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
Awwwww <3
(https://i.ibb.co/nsv7gQZ/BCcc-YY5-Cc-AAz-M7-D-jpg-large.jpg)
I found the scene cute, like the baby velociraptor from Jurassic Park. I don't mind at all, after all even real life deadly animals are really cute when they are newborns, before they are able to tears us apart. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/pWDVSm6/Picsart-23-11-22-12-34-52-309.jpg)
That being said, I think David was contemplating his creation, as he did with the Neomorph, and as his creator did with him; creator-creation dynamics ala Frankenstein.
(https://i.ibb.co/XX5BvYD/Picsart-23-11-22-12-45-47-790.jpg)
(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/SRQo8.gif)
It's a vicious killing machine, not a real animal. Really hated how they downplayed their terror here. Nice one Ridley
Quote from: Mr.Turok on Nov 23, 2023, 09:19:02 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 29, 2023, 12:20:56 AM(https://68.media.tumblr.com/ffdf12bc2f36e039b0e58a4124147589/tumblr_oukleb8wE91t4wjzko2_r1_540.gif)
What a cool movie.
It's a vicious killing machine, not a real animal
Hey vicious killing machines can be cute too (https://images.bauerhosting.com/empire/2023/04/chestburster.jpg?ar=16%3A9&fit=crop&crop=top&auto=format&w=1440&q=80)
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 23, 2023, 09:26:31 PMHey vicious killing machines can be cute too https://images.bauerhosting.com/empire/2023/04/chestburster.jpg?ar=16%3A9&fit=crop&crop=top&auto=format&w=1440&q=80
I'm talking about acting cute. It's not a creature of Earth, the xenomorph is a creature of the unknown from the deepest parts of space. Like the babies of the Pandora Predators in the Avatar films are and act cute because they are natural creatures of that environment, IE an animal. It's just an out of moment experience that undermines the tone of the movie. If I wanted silly, I look elsewhere, not in an Alien film.
_________________________________________________________________________
That being said, yeah I hate both Covenant and Prometheus. I don't see how people can justify the poor writing of both films. Like Engineers being creators of humans as well and not an unknown scary ass alien being that is beyond something that we can relate to? Nope huge pale man. Everything is human relative. Aliens created humans, the same tired trope I see people try to justify how the pyramids are built in a thinly veil attempt to cover racism because how else can people of color create civilization right?
Or how the behavior of the humans in this film is so out of field from how actual logical people will act, a far cry from how the human the characters were in the first two Alien films. Take your helmet off in a unknown world you had just been for 15 mins, surely nothing can harm you there right? Poke at the unknown creature in an unknown remains of a lost alien civilization, what can go wrong? The list goes on and on and on........
I agree with the racism in the pseudoscientific hypotheses of ancient astronauts in real life, but I don't think that was Ridley's intention at all. The man just used the trope to tell his story, like Anderson did in
AVP.
The concept doesn't bother me at all when it's used in fiction, like in
Quatermass and the Pit for example.
Regarding the Space Jockeys (or Pilots), there is no damage that cannot be repaired with future instalments; as happened recently with
Aliens: Dark Descent or even the
Alien RPG from Free League.
Personally, I like Engineers. They remind me of those creepy humanoids from Giger art, and I think they can subsist in the same universe with the Space Jockeys as separate entities.
(https://i.ibb.co/GJNVK7V/bsf-O4o5-Hhz9duzw-NYG3jxb4-Xn-Ly-VHTg-Ib3ybiv-PMx-Xc-1.jpg)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMwith the Space Jockeys as separate entities.
Or even as variations of the same entity, with a little bit of technobabble and some Pathogen-induced genetic modification sprinkled on top.
Bio
mechanical jazz, man.
Never gets old :laugh:
Is that Tuvix? :o
I'm still not over that.
Why not both pale man and elephant man
If it can be made to work, I'll accept it. Why would pale man masquerade as elephant man though?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 23, 2023, 11:52:06 PMIf it can be made to work, I'll accept it. Why would pale man masquerade as elephant man though?
Clearly you never heard about a priest or those people who cosplay as Jesus Christ
I'll do some research and get back to you.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 23, 2023, 11:52:06 PMIf it can be made to work, I'll accept it. Why would pale man masquerade as elephant man though?
Pale man hasn't drank enough Pathogen while hugging David yet.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 23, 2023, 11:56:48 PMI'll do some research and get back to you.
Spoiler
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/fc/02/38fc02679eb1ccbf63f2d55f73a977e8.gif)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 24, 2023, 12:03:41 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 23, 2023, 11:52:06 PMIf it can be made to work, I'll accept it. Why would pale man masquerade as elephant man though?
Pale man hasn't drank enough Pathogen while hugging David yet.
Or simply "it's a biomechanical death cult, why wouldn't they be weirdos", then introduce more strange shapes as well as the classic.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 23, 2023, 10:57:15 PMQuote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMwith the Space Jockeys as separate entities.
Or even as variations of the same entity, with a little bit of technobabble and some Pathogen-induced genetic modification sprinkled on top.
Biomechanical jazz, man.
Biopunk ala Scorn? 🤩
(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/SR4mf.gif)
But I have never played Scorn.
Scorn's cool. Clunky combat, but I love the presentation of its world, the puzzles are great, and the art direction's stellar.
I'll eventually replay it, after I've had a bit more time to put some distance between me and my initial playthrough.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 23, 2023, 11:04:25 PMQuote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMPersonally, I like Engineers.
I want elephant man. >:(
And he wants you.
(https://www.joblo.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/kane_birth_2.jpg)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMI agree with the racism in the pseudoscientific hypotheses of ancient astronauts in real life, but I don't think that was Ridley's intention at all. The man just used the trope to tell his story, like Anderson did in AVP.
The concept doesn't bother me at all when it's used in fiction, like in Quatermass and the Pit for example.
The thing is that it's an outdated trope that needs to die due to it's racist origin. Why keep this idea in the public mind in the first place when it comes from a terrible viewpoint ya know? It's also the same reason why I dislike that same trope in AVP. Keeps us too connected to humanoid aliens, (Ex; Predators and Engineers) and that racist tone in the films, as how these civilizations needed Predator help to create pyramids and other things but european folks needed no such thing?
Like I know Anderson never intended that in the first place as well, and I do agree that Ridley at least isn't like that either, it just sucks that underlining mention is even there in the first place. It's also understandable that due to executive meddling, Anderson was forced to take the story on Earth as well, so I can see why he drew that trope for storytelling.
You got me intrigued at the two films you mentioned. Guess if it's done right, maybe it can work. Just that most of the time its not so perhaps these two can turn those expectations over.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMRegarding the Space Jockeys (or Pilots), there is no damage that cannot be repaired with future instalments; as happened recently with Aliens: Dark Descent or even the Alien RPG from Free League.
Personally, I like Engineers. They remind me of those creepy humanoids from Giger art, and I think they can subsist in the same universe with the Space Jockeys as separate entities.
(https://i.ibb.co/Hdm74MZ/bsf-O4o5-Hhz9duzw-NYG3jxb4-Xn-Ly-VHTg-Ib3ybiv-PMx-Xc.jpg)
I mean yeah eventually things have mended thanks to A:DD and the RPG but the fact that this was presented in the first place and had to take years later after release for things to be patched up. It wasn't even a neat idea but poorly executed, its rather an idea that should have been rejected on the table.
QuoteI think we've been monitored for years! How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? Rolling 20-tonne stones on logs? F*** off!
RIDLEY SCOTT
Much as I adore him as a creative and as quite the entertaining character, I think he does believe that, in earnest.
Quote from: Mr.Turok on Nov 24, 2023, 07:17:55 AMThe thing is that it's an outdated trope that needs to die due to it's racist origin. Why keep this idea in the public mind in the first place when it comes from a terrible viewpoint ya know? It's also the same reason why I dislike that same trope in AVP. Keeps us too connected to humanoid aliens, (Ex; Predators and Engineers) and that racist tone in the films, as how these civilizations needed Predator help to create pyramids and other things but european folks needed no such thing?
Fair enough but, before authors like Erich von Däniken or Zecharia Sitchin wrote their pseudoarchaeological theories, the concept was already used in science fiction; with roots in syncretic religious philosophies and esoteric beliefs during the late 19th century:
Quote from: Jason Colavito"The crap of the theosophists, which falls into the class of conscious fakery, is interesting in spots. It combines some genuine Hindoo and other Oriental myths with a subtle charlatanism obviously drawn from nineteenth century scientific concepts."
-- H. P . Lovecraft, letter to William Conover
This book presents early texts from noted Theosophists and those who encountered Theosophy, covering the beings from other worlds that came to the ancient earth to "civilize our planet." These texts provide an interesting window into the origins of the modern ancient astronaut theory and demonstrate just how much the talking heads of cable TV and the modern authors of alternative history owe to the pioneering work of the nineteenth- and early twentieth-century occultists.
(https://i.ibb.co/gvYDJRD/2529716-orig-1.jpg)
▶️ Theosophy on ancient astronauts (https://www.jasoncolavito.com/theosophy-on-ancient-astronauts.html)
Quote from: Mr.Turok on Nov 24, 2023, 07:17:55 AMYou got me intrigued at the two films you mentioned. Guess if it's done right, maybe it can work. Just that most of the time its not so perhaps these two can turn those expectations over.
It all depends on the execution and how the idea is used. I mean, I can imagine a premise of aliens visiting the prehistoric planet Earth before humans existed, without drawing any kind of influence on our ancestors.
Regardless, ancient astronauts have been exploited in countless works of fiction; in every format / medium imaginable:
(https://i.ibb.co/7zPP5rV/Picsart-23-11-24-12-03-28-174.jpg)
▶️ TV Tropes ~ Ancient Astronauts (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AncientAstronauts)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 24, 2023, 02:04:28 PMQuoteI think we've been monitored for years! How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? Rolling 20-tonne stones on logs? F*** off!
RIDLEY SCOTT
Much as I adore him as a creative and as quite the entertaining character, I think he does believe that, in earnest.
Unfortunately yes, the man has some questionable beliefs.
Quote from: Ridley Scott via THR"NASA and the Vatican agree that is almost mathematically impossible that we can be where we are today without there being a little help along the way," Scott said.
▶️ Ridley Scott, Michael Fassbender, Noomi Rapace Tease 'Prometheus' at CineEurope (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/ridley-scott-michael-fassbender-noomi-206321/amp/)
Oh God no!
There I was thinking that Prometheus's Chariots of the Gods nonsense was an innocent act of writer desperation in order to contrive a plot that would somehow get a humanoid robot into a space jockey suit and thus able to be discovered by the Nostromo crew.
Now I learn that Scott actually believes this BS!
It falls into place: It's why the Engineers are depicted as Greco caucasian humans: they are part of Scott's eurocentric view of humanity's evolution. That's very close to blatant racism. If anything, the Engineers should look native African. That's where our species evolved from.
Bleh!
TC
Blame the idea, the conception, on Jon Spaihts, but yes. Ridley Scott's to blame overall for their depiction, and he's been very particular about their similarities to white people such as Elvis.
He acknowledges Africa as the cradle of life, David holds Earth in his hands looking there in particular, but also it is the guy that made 1492: Conquest of Paradise.
Given the way Ridley's recent films - Napoleon, The Last Duel, etc. - have essentially been hit pieces condemning their "heroes," I do think a Columbus story from current day Scott would be totally night and day compared to what was put on screen in 1492. It's something I'd definitely be interested in seeing.
Quote from: TC on Nov 24, 2023, 03:56:13 PMOh God no!
There I was thinking that Prometheus's Chariots of the Gods nonsense was an innocent act of writer desperation in order to contrive a plot that would somehow get a humanoid robot into a space jockey suit and thus able to be discovered by the Nostromo crew.
Now I learn that Scott actually believes this BS!
It falls into place: It's why the Engineers are depicted as Greco caucasian humans: they are part of Scott's eurocentric view of humanity's evolution. That's very close to blatant racism. If anything, the Engineers should look native African. That's where our species evolved from.
Bleh!
TC
This guy has had a lot of influence:
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/94KgLQfV2pzag/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bx1oxbe8mkp97z0asm4d5w900f40389vx5p0tlt1l&ep=v1_gifs_related&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
even on Ridley it seems...
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 24, 2023, 05:52:04 PMBlame the idea, the conception, on Jon Spaihts, but yes. Ridley Scott's to blame overall for their depiction, and he's been very particular about their similarities to white people such as Elvis.
He acknowledges Africa as the cradle of life, David holds Earth in his hands looking there in particular, but also it is the guy that made 1492: Conquest of Paradise.
Blame Lindelof, in the Jon Spaihts script the Engineers only helped the human species through history but they weren't our creators (when I was full Alien prequel). The idea of Engineers being our creators I think that appears in the Prometheus script. I believe that the Spaihts script was pretty good, just needed some more revisions but definitely better than the crappy sh*t that Lindelof made