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Author Topic: How is AVP-R "going back to the roots"?  (Read 36254 times)

Robotpo
Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Topic on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
Just out of curiosity, how does this look like it's "going back to the roots"? This is the phrase we've heard used the most to describe this film, from everyone from the Bros. Strause, (repeatedly & extensively), to Tom Rothman, (head of Fox), to various cast & crew on the film, ETC. HOWEVER, nothing in the movie even look remotely like the original films;l in fact, I think it's safe to say AVP-R is going further from "the roots," than ever before:

-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza

-Story. The original films all has original, classic stories of suspense and horror. Even the first AVP had a better plot than this.  AVP-R seems to have no coherent narrative, and amounts to a bunch of unrelated incidents of people running around being attacked by aliens/predators in their hick town.

-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).

-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)

Subtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not.  ::)
 
-The cast and crew of the first Alien films were top-notch people who loved the craft and art of film, and who had genuinely interesting things to say in their work. Predator 1/2 also had the benefit of Stan Winston, Alan Silvestri, great cinematography, ETC. AVP-R has a bunch of 3rd and 4th rate actors who've been in a couple of 2nd-tier TV shows, a guy from the OC, the screenwriter of "Shaft," the composer of "Fast and the Furious 3," and two-first time directors who aspire to be the guy that did "300." Oy.

-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.

Overall, I don't see how AVP-R is closer to the roots. When they Strausi say this, I think they mean that after ONE, (count it, ONE), PG-13 film, they're going back to being rated-R, (which in this day and age, seems to mean excessive gore and swearing instead of a plot or actual horror).  And to be perfectly honest, after watching those Reelz.com interviews with the Strausi, I don't think they know what made Alien or Predator appealing in the first place.  ???

Is this just me...?


That Yellow Alien
Nov 20, 2007, 10:45:09 PM
Reply #1 on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:45:09 PM
I'll wait until I see the movie first to judge.


Remonster
Nov 20, 2007, 10:47:44 PM
Reply #2 on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:47:44 PM
I lost all interest at Colorado hicks in a hick town.




That Yellow Alien
Nov 20, 2007, 10:58:08 PM
Reply #5 on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:58:08 PM
When they say "back to the roots", I think they mean in the more shallow ways.

Predator vision is back to blue.

Med kit is back.

Eye flash.

Original cloak effect.

Sounds effects are back.

Gore is back.

The hive is back (we haven't seen a full fledged hive since '86!)

Army vs Aliens (like marines)

More intense action.

We follow the Predator around more, similar to Predator 2.

That is how it is supposedly back to the originals. They paid attention to all the nip-picky whining from AVP.



Robotpo
Nov 20, 2007, 10:59:04 PM
Reply #6 on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:59:04 PM
Well that's true. I just wish they'd taken the more fundamental stuff as well.


DB
Nov 20, 2007, 10:59:52 PM
Reply #7 on: Nov 20, 2007, 10:59:52 PM
There is obviously a problem here. That problem is that you, Robotpo, you pathetic fool, do not realize that the Bros. are infallible and that it is you who is misunderstanding their words.

When they said they were going back to the roots, they obviously meant that they were going into the roots of someone's arse, and pulling out whichever ideas were hardcore and badass enough to suit their superior (compared to yours) tastes.

You... baboon! >:(









^^ Yeah, it's probably what he says. They had me fooled, though...


Lionhart
Nov 20, 2007, 11:07:56 PM
Reply #8 on: Nov 20, 2007, 11:07:56 PM
WoW, Thats some pretty hard words there mate :-\


Robotpo
Nov 20, 2007, 11:09:25 PM
Reply #9 on: Nov 20, 2007, 11:09:25 PM
There is obviously a problem here. That problem is that you, Robotpo, you pathetic fool, do not realize that the Bros. are infallible and that it is you who is misunderstanding their words.

When they said they were going back to the roots, they obviously meant that they were going into the roots of someone's arse, and pulling out whichever ideas were hardcore and badass enough to suit their superior (compared to yours) tastes.

You... baboon! >:(









^^ Yeah, it's probably what he says. They had me fooled, though...

 :D Lol...


gameoverman
Nov 20, 2007, 11:50:26 PM
Reply #10 on: Nov 20, 2007, 11:50:26 PM
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza

The crew in Alien were probably hicks (truck drivers usually are) but it was the acting that sold it.  I expect these people in AVP-R to overact as usual.

Quote
-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).


LA is not that interesting of a location.  Agree with your other points though.

Quote
-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)

Yeah there's been a dumbing down of movies lately.

Quote
Subtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not.  ::)

People don't seem to have imaginations anymore.

Quote
-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.

I think the predator looks good - as for how he acts we'll have to wait.  The aliens act stupid though.


Tun
Nov 20, 2007, 11:58:02 PM
Reply #11 on: Nov 20, 2007, 11:58:02 PM
Quote
-Characters. Original films, "Alien/Aliens/Predator/Predator 2," all had ADULT characters with unique professions/character arcs, involving motivations, and were played by, with the exception of Predator, talented actors. AVP-R has a bunch of Colorado hicks in a hick town who, instead of piloting deep-space ore refineries, deliver pizza
I agree I do not want to see younger kids running around for a lot of the movie, which from the clips seems to be. That would be a terrible mistake. What I'm hoping for is that they are all killed quickly and the focus shifted to the 'older' characters. I'm hoping the reason we have seen a lot of the 'kids' is because the previews wanted to show deaths and the best ones to show are the non-spolier ones. But I guess we'll see.

Quote
-Story. The original films all has original, classic stories of suspense and horror. Even the first AVP had a better plot than this.  AVP-R seems to have no coherent narrative, and amounts to a bunch of unrelated incidents of people running around being attacked by aliens/predators in their hick town.
Whether everyone likes it or not, I think this movie is following the predator-type movie more. Like Predator and even Aliens to a lesser extent, the movie is more focused on action than horror/suspense. That's not to say those films do not have that, just to say it's more action based. So while I believe AvPr will go for mostly action with some horror/suspense scenes (those being the alien/human ones more so). As for plot, I'm not sure how it will play out but it will at least string together more than the previews let on.

Quote
-Locations. All of the previous Alien/Predator films had visually stimulating and detailed, well-conceived locations. Nostromo, Hadley's Hope, Fury 161, the Auriga, South American jungle, war-torn 1997 LA, Antarctica..now an unbelievably bland Colorado town, (which, like most productions shot in Canada, is bland as only a Canada-based production can be), and is poorly designed, shot and edited, from everything we've seen so far, (which is more than enough).
Agreed for the most part in that I do not like the setting. I didn't like AvPs either however. I think this will at least have some variety.  I think the movie will have its moments in terms of locations (the sewers for example), but overall it's not a great choice to me unless those promising scenes really come through.

Quote
-Themes. The Alien films all were more than met the eye, (especially the first two), and dealt with themes of sexuality, corporate maleficence, family, the nature of man, ETC. Even the first two Predator's had government conspiracy angles, making our "protectors," just as dangerous to the heroes as the Predator itself. AVP-R is obviously absent of all this more complex layering and metaphor in exchange for BAS-ASS chaotic gore and teenagers waggling their boobies at each other, (and possibly, the aliens)
Again, I think this movie will be more in line with what the pred movies were like in terms of themes (government cover ups etc). You're right it will not approach the first few alien movies in terms of those types of layers. But that's not what it is going for.

Quote
Subtlety- The original films all had a fair amount of physiological horror and Lovecraftian unease. Alien and Aliens weren't gory at all; they established how destructive the creatures were, then let your mind fill in the blanks. AVP-R, well..does not. I'm very impressed with the CGI gore, though. Oh wait, no I'm not.  ::)
AvPr seems pretty violent. But for me that's ok as long as it doesn't become needless. Again, we'll see but this isn't so much a problem area for me personally.
 
Quote
-The cast and crew of the first Alien films were top-notch people who loved the craft and art of film, and who had genuinely interesting things to say in their work. Predator 1/2 also had the benefit of Stan Winston, Alan Silvestri, great cinematography, ETC. AVP-R has a bunch of 3rd and 4th rate actors who've been in a couple of 2nd-tier TV shows, a guy from the OC, the screenwriter of "Shaft," the composer of "Fast and the Furious 3," and two-first time directors who aspire to be the guy that did "300." Oy.
Assuming they don't play the younger actors on screen as much, I think Kelly, Dallas, and Morales have potential. That is defnately a wait and see. Again though, here's hoping the younger actors don't run a muck.

Quote
-The creatures themselves. The Original Alien/predator films obviously defined how aliens and predators looked and behaved. AVP-R gives us the worst/cheapest-looking aliens ever, a Predator that's anorexic and doesn't even begin to have the character and charisma that Kevin Peter Hall endowed it with, and a PredAlien that looks like something from a d-level parody of "Alien." The creatures looked better 30 years ago.
Not going to get Kevin Peter Hall performance type again, I'm convinced of that. That being said, I think they did a good job overall with the pred. Some areas could be off, (face?) but overall I would say it looks good and a godsend compared to AvP.
The Aliens I'm pretty sure will have their moments (yes even against wolf). In terms of design....welll....hmm...

So anyway I think a lot of this, (for example characters), we really won't know till the film. And I think people hoping for a suspense/horror with undertones similar to alien, will be disappointed.


PRAETORIAN MONSTER
Nov 21, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
Reply #12 on: Nov 21, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
pretty rude thing to say about Kevin Peter Hall.  he was phenominal at what he did.


superunknown
Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
Reply #13 on: Nov 21, 2007, 12:10:35 AM
How can there be a hive in this if there are no eggs?


Tun
Nov 21, 2007, 12:23:46 AM
Reply #14 on: Nov 21, 2007, 12:23:46 AM
pretty rude thing to say about Kevin Peter Hall.  he was phenominal at what he did.
??? If you were talking to me, you misunderstood. I was saying it's a shame, but I think we'll never get a performance like his again so I don't think we can expect to see one of his high quality.
aka Kevin Peter Hall > everyone else


 

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