For all those who hate A:CM

Started by Predator@Alien, Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM

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For all those who hate A:CM (Read 13,292 times)

Predator@Alien

Predator@Alien

Hi !

I make this topic to understand things that I never understand.

I'm a relly big fan of A:CM. But I'm aware of the big problems of production, scams of comm' and the bad gameplay. But I love the story.

I have studied major critics on A:CM and I have some answers to them. It is not a fight but see that as a thing that I don't understand and I need logical answers.

First of all, I'm not just a fan of Alien, but the franchise is my passion. All my life turn around Alien, I think about it all the time, I live for Alien. So that is the proof that we can love A:CM and love Aliens too, because it is something that I saw sometimes.
And about that, I think people hurt themselves for nothing. Alien is a franchise of entertainment, it is make to be good, so why do you spend energy to hate it ? If you don't like something, just ignore it, but why hated it ? It is a content which is proposed to you, not impose, you don't like it then try to forget it. I think you hurt yourselves but s**t it's Alien ! As a passionate, I'm really happy when something is new in Alien, no matter if it's bad of good, it's Alien, it will just make more content. For example, I don't like much A Comic Book Adventure, but I don't hate it, it is a part of the Alien franchise, that's all. It seems that you make it as a major problem, but again, it is entertainment.

After, about the canon thing, I have a problem with the words "canon" and "continuity". Those words are synonymous, but I prefer "continuity" because people don't seem to understand the meaning of canon. Why a lot of people are submitted on what is canon or what isn't ? It looks like it's mandatory. Before I thought canon means cotinuity but now it is clear that it's not anymore like this. For example, some people don't take A:CM in the chronology of the main Alien timeline, whereas it respect it : same characters, same places, same story. But these people consider Dead Orbit as canon. And you have absolutely no problem that there is no link with the chronology ? How do you do to accept that ?

For the main critics on A:CM, I noted that : graphics, IA, story.

I don't understand people who says that A:CM is not canon just because of the graphics or IA. Okay it is not a good tribute to Aliens, it is not really immersive and it is not scary at all. But does that mean that it didn't happened in the story ? Continuity means story, just like canon. So I really don't understand why a bad graphics should be decisive to judge if it's in the story or not. For example, in Aliens, the special effects of the Dropship which is heading to LV-426 are not really well made. So that means that it is not canon ? I don't understand why graphics are linked to the story. Moreover, I realize that a lot of the haters are gamers and are more interested in the fact that it's a game instead of an Alien material. Personaly, I'm only interested in Alien et it is an Alien work first of all.

And for the story, there are the more constructive arguments I ever seen for the critics of A:CM. Because for me, graphics and IA are fake problems.
So the main inconsistencies are the problem of the 17 weeks and the presence of the colony after the detonation of the atmospheric processor. Same problem here, why people don't try to explain the problem while keeping it canon ? Same people think that River of Pain is canon, but there is the worst thing : a marines battalion was already at Hadley's Hope. Here, you try to find explanations to justify it, so why don't do that for A:CM ? Same for Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows, they are inconsistent with Alien Covenant, so why sould they be more canon than A:CM which respect the main story ? It is not complicatd to find explanations for the problems of A:CM.

Some of you linger on details in dialogs, very little problems everywhere. But in Isolation there are the same imperfections but nobody say anything nor call into question the legitimacy in the canon.
Since when it is a problem in the Alien franchise when there are unforgivable inconsistencies ? Alien is not canon because nothing in the universe can travel faster than light ? Aliens is not canon because Ripley should died during the decompression ? It is science fiction ! So why it is a problem that Bishiop was wrong and overevalued the power of the detonation ?

A lot of you love ACMTM but don't like A:CM. To those who are not aware, the story of A:CM is based on the book (thank's to gold to have open my eyes : https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55278.0 ). The story is absolutely great, return on the Sulaco, then Hadley's Hope, then Origin, it's just perfect !

I'm perfectly open to the discussion when the arguments are constructives, so obviously I don't listen the personal insults that I saw earlier. I just try to understand your points of view, your thoughts and I want to have answers to the arguments that I exposed. And again, I am really aware of the problems of this game. Me too I was expecting a lot more, when I saw concept arts, demos and trailers, I wanted so more... Same thing for the production, I have noticed the scams of Randy Pitchford and ofthe production team, they did it with their feet. But once again, I'm only thinking about the story.

Thank's to all you to read, I know that it is not really in the news but I try anyway, we'll see  ;D

Bonus : I felt the biggest scam coming when I saw this intrview :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1cRpmgpUw&t=8s

For the 1è weeks thing, in french we can say that it is "f**king the fly"  :D

Kradan

Kradan

#1
Honestly, haven't read it but seeing the amount of text I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .

Predator@Alien

Quote from: Kradan on Oct 16, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Honestly, haven't read it but seeing the amount of text I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .

Maybe that's why you should read ?

Kradan

Kradan

#3
Done

Quote from: Kradan on Oct 16, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .

I'll stay with that

Predator@Alien

So you have no arguments to face with mine ? Perhaps you don't recognize yourself in the examples I quoted ?

Kradan

Kradan

#5
I was about 12 when it came out. I barely knew anything about the game so I wasn't hyped so much. I played it through once and never came back to it. I got some enjoyment out of it. I guess, it just wasn't such a big disappointment to me as it seems was to others.

I don't have anything to add really. Just waiting to see other members' posts .

Samhain13

Samhain13

#6
This horse has already been beaten so many times, not sure how many still want to go for another round.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
And about that, I think people hurt themselves for nothing. Alien is a franchise of entertainment, it is make to be good, so why do you spend energy to hate it ?

I have a lot of energy and its always recharging. I'm not losing anything.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
If you don't like something, just ignore it, but why hated it ?

I think that the hatred for ACM might have more to do with Gearbox and Randy's unethical behavior before and after the game's release. If the game was simply bad and without any expectation after so many years of development, it might have been easily ignored. But game developers lying and fooling people into buying something different than they are selling, using funds of the game for something else. They are just asking for it. Its not exclusive to this series, the ethics in the game industry have become more questionable over the years.

For me it wasn't that bad, I wasn't much into the series at that year, I don't preorder games, didn't play on launch. Bought after the price had decreased, patches to the gameplay had already been made, wasn't expecting much, enjoyed the gameplay in both the campaign and multiplayer. I only got angry after I learned of the controversies surrounding the game's development.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
After, about the canon thing, I have a problem with the words "canon" and "continuity". Those words are synonymous, but I prefer "continuity" because people don't seem to understand the meaning of canon. Why a lot of people are submitted on what is canon or what isn't ?

Fandoms care about that stuff. We had whole wars on this matter. For me its like this: I don't like when new entries are pushed as canon and end up directly contradicting other entries I consider canon or retcon stuff that was estabilished on the original movies. I like consistency in the series, when it gets messy, it feels like what is being done isn't credible and the people in charge don't know what they are doing. Its like we have to trade one entry for another since they don't fit well together, and what was established before is thrown into the trash.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
It looks like it's mandatory. Before I thought canon means cotinuity but now it is clear that it's not anymore like this. For example, some people don't take A:CM in the chronology of the main Alien timeline, whereas it respect it : same characters, same places, same story. But these people consider Dead Orbit as canon. And you have absolutely no problem that there is no link with the chronology ? How do you do to accept that ?

For me if the good outweighs the bad and its not directly contracting another entry that is better then its canon.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
I don't understand people who says that A:CM is not canon just because of the graphics or IA.

Never seen this. Its the plot that made people have a hard time taking it as canon.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
So the main inconsistencies are the problem of the 17 weeks and the presence of the colony after the detonation of the atmospheric processor. Same problem here, why people don't try to explain the problem while keeping it canon ? Same people think that River of Pain is canon, but there is the worst thing : a marines battalion was already at Hadley's Hope. Here, you try to find explanations to justify it, so why don't do that for A:CM ? Same for Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows, they are inconsistent with Alien Covenant, so why sould they be more canon than A:CM which respect the main story ? It is not complicatd to find explanations for the problems of A:CM.

This is a matter of how one does his own headcanon. Its all personal at this point, if you want to see ACM as part of the series then do it, most people don't. People liked those novels more than ACM so it was easier to accept them as canon. Other people don't accept any EU as canon, just the movies. Due to several plot points I don't feel the series has much to gain by having ACM as part of it.

Predator@Alien

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
I have a lot of energy and its always recharging. I'm not losing anything.

Very funny ^^ but like I said, it is entertainment, it is not a state affair, it's just a game in a franchise which is make for fun, to enjoy it. What is the major problem which make the people very annoyed ? It is not so serious yes ?

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
I think that the hatred for ACM might have more to do with Gearbox and Randy's unethical behavior before and after the game's release. If the game was simply bad and without any expectation after so many years of development, it might have been easily ignored. But game developers lying and fooling people into buying something different than they are selling, using funds of the game for something else. They are just asking for it. Its not exclusive to this series, the ethics in the game industry have become more questionable over the years.

For me it wasn't that bad, I wasn't much into the series at that year, I don't preorder games, didn't play on launch. Bought after the price had decreased, patches to the gameplay had already been made, wasn't expecting much, enjoyed the gameplay in both the campaign and multiplayer. I only got angry after I learned of the controversies surrounding the game's development.

Ah yes here I'm okay with you. But I'm only talk about the story and people seems to avoid this. The fact that people don't like the development shouldn't change their minds about the story which is tell in the game ! If the story is good, what's the matter ?

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
Fandoms care about that stuff. We had whole wars on this matter. For me its like this: I don't like when new entries are pushed as canon and end up directly contradicting other entries I consider canon or retcon stuff that was estabilished on the original movies. I like consistency in the series, when it gets messy, it feels like what is being done isn't credible and the people in charge don't know what they are doing. Its like we have to trade one entry for another since they don't fit well together, and what was established before is thrown into the trash.

So are you okay to say that Isolation is not canon ? River of Pain, Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows ? Fire and Stone, Life and Death ?

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
For me if the good outweighs the bad and its not directly contracting another entry that is better then its canon.

Yes but Dead Orbit is just the same sort of stories as many others comics books : no origin of the Alien, unknown characters, no links with the original story. At least A:CM has the merit to be a part of the original continuity.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
Never seen this. Its the plot that made people have a hard time taking it as canon.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but forgive me, a lot of person say that it's a bad game, piece of s**t game, wathever... without arguments. And this often comes up for the legitimacy of the game, whereas bad graphics are not contradicts the story I guess...

Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
This is a matter of how one does his own headcanon. Its all personal at this point, if you want to see ACM as part of the series then do it, most people don't. People liked those novels more than ACM so it was easier to accept them as canon. Other people don't accept any EU as canon, just the movies. Due to several plot points I don't feel the series has much to gain by having ACM as part of it.

I prefer the people who don't take account of all of the EU, but just only the films. At least it is not just A:CM but Alien Isolation too so I'm reassured. I know it is personal, and it's exactly why I want to understand their logic, integrate in canon things which are totally inconsistent and reject things which are logical sequels... I don't understand and that's why I need answers ^^

The Old One

The Old One

#8
You trolling? ACM' story is atrocious, it's voice acting is particularly dead in the water, and it's gameplay is at best mediocre. It isn't just people who care about Alien who hate it, it's the entire industry. Nearly every single aspect of it is sub par.

Being part of the "film continuity" doesn't automatically mean you're more worthwhile- that's absolute nonsense. Labyrinth's got no connection to the Alien Anthology and yet is regarded extremely highly.

For myself, the original AVP graphic novel, Monolith's AVP,  AVPE, Alien, Aliens, Alien³ SE, (Perhaps Covenant), Labyrinth, Salvation, Sacrifice, Survival, Wraith, Glass Corridor, David's Drawings, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, Isolation, Infestation and The Cold Forge is the good content from the franchise within the universe. Not counting Predator stuff I'm not familiar with, or the tenuous Blade Runner connection. The universe is large, so most stories being disconnected from the Alien Anthology is just sensible.

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#9
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
If the story is good, what's the matter ?

It's the story most fans of the franchise have their problems with. Apart from the getting scammed out of their money part, of course.

That it miss-uses established characters and tried to bastardized the movie continuity only makes it worse.

People would be way more forgiving if it was just a mediocre shooter with a good storyline.

Samhain13

Samhain13

#10
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Very funny ^^ but like I said, it is entertainment, it is not a state affair, it's just a game in a franchise which is make for fun, to enjoy it. What is the major problem which make the people very annoyed ? It is not so serious yes ?

The story is a mess and the gameplay was broken at the launch, required fanmade mods to make it more fun, the footage originally shown wasn't in the final game. When something is bad, people will critize it, that's how it works. If you liked it then fine. Others didn't.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Ah yes here I'm okay with you. But I'm only talk about the story and people seems to avoid this. The fact that people don't like the development shouldn't change their minds about the story which is tell in the game ! If the story is good, what's the matter ?

Because it not good and nobody avoids talking about it. People have said multiple times over the years how they don't like the story, voice acting, characters, whatever. Its bad regardless of the development.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
So are you okay to say that Isolation is not canon ? River of Pain, Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows ? Fire and Stone, Life and Death ?

People can have any personal canon they want. If one doesn't consider EU canon then its their problem. Isolation is sure one I think that should be canon, but if others don't want to its their way of seeing things.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Yes but Dead Orbit is just the same sort of stories as many others comics books : no origin of the Alien, unknown characters, no links with the original story.

I don't see the issue with that.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
At least A:CM has the merit to be a part of the original continuity.

That kind of worked against it. Part of the issue with ACM plot is how it retconed stuff from the original continuity, so the way it forced its way to be part of the original continuity was a bad thing. No merit there. If the story was done as it own thing, maybe people wouldn't have hated it so much.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but forgive me, a lot of person say that it's a bad game, piece of s**t game, wathever... without arguments. And this often comes up for the legitimacy of the game, whereas bad graphics are not contradicts the story I guess...

Most people think that both the story/characters/acting and gameplay/graphics/AI were bad. If they think everything is bad then they are going to say its a bad game. Sure with Templar's mod, the PC version looks better and its challeging, but most people didn't play that.

Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
I prefer the people who don't take account of all of the EU, but just only the films. At least it is not just A:CM but Alien Isolation too so I'm reassured. I know it is personal, and it's exactly why I want to understand their logic, integrate in canon things which are totally inconsistent and reject things which are logical sequels... I don't understand and that's why I need answers ^^

ACM ass pulled Hicks and Hadley's Hope back to life. People don't like the cheap way they retconned what was established in the moveis so they are going to ignore it. Isolation didn't do anything that severe, plus it was a good game, so people won't have much of a hard time taking it as canon.

Some people don't even consider the bad movies of the series to be canon. Its not exclusive to the EU.

Predator@Alien

Predator@Alien

#11
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Oct 17, 2019, 10:50:28 AM
You trolling? ACM' story is atrocious, it's voice acting is particularly dead in the water, and it's gameplay is at best mediocre. It isn't just people who care about Alien who hate it, it's the entire industry. Nearly every single aspect of it is sub par.

Being part of the "film continuity" doesn't automatically mean you're more worthwhile- that's absolute nonsense. Labyrinth's got no connection to the Alien Anthology and yet is regarded extremely highly.

For myself, the original AVP graphic novel, Monolith's AVP,  AVPE, Alien, Aliens, Alien³ SE, (Perhaps Covenant), Labyrinth, Salvation, Sacrifice, Survival, Wraith, Glass Corridor, David's Drawings, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, Isolation, Infestation and The Cold Forge is the good content from the franchise within the universe. Not counting Predator stuff I'm not familiar with, or the tenuous Blade Runner connection. The universe is large, so most stories being disconnected from the Alien Anthology is just sensible.

I love all of the things in the EU, Labyrinth is really good, most of the comics of this time are too. But I make the distinction between canon (mine) and EU. Because most of the works in EU are not inside the continuity or they were relaced buy Alien 3 (with Book One, Book Two and all of the others following these events.
A:CM fits perfectly in the continuity of the films. That's what I think it is : canon. Because when we are all talking about what is canon it's about the continuity, the chronology, all the events happened. Book I, Book II, Génocide, Berserker, Labyrinth... All of those are in another timeline, because you'll have problems in the timeline if you take account of everything. For me Dead Orbit or Dust to Dust are really good but not in the timeline of the films, so in the canon, just because they are just like other works : their story don't respect the original. A:CM does, even if some things are not good, I'm totally okay with you ! Gameplay, dialogs, everything is really sad compared to what we expected. But I just don't understand the using of the "canon" word. It's supposed to make a logical timeline no ? If not tell me that's not true and I will understand. But for now I really thought it was the case. And since some years, I have the proof that it is not anymore the case : Dead Orbit, River of Pain, Fire and Stone etc.

It is not because a story is good that it's canon, canon doesn't mean "goods works", it means continuity, logical timeline, chronological order of events.

And Samhain, I suspect people to love more games than Alien and automatically they are influenced by other games. But like I said, it's Alien before being a game. I only love Alien, and the only games I know are Alien so of course I can't say anything about the others. But I think it's not good to compare A:CM to other games. I saw a lot of people complaining about the fact that there wasn't explanations in the game for Hicks and we must buy the DLC ... What's the problem ? The story is already there.

So, if you say that A:CM forced his way with Hicks and the colony, which is for some points inconsistent, why people consider River of Pain as canon ? There are a lot of problems in it, it don't respect Aliens in a lot of things so what is the logic ? I understand that for the generation of people who always thought that the colony was destroyed, Hicks was dead, I completely understand that it must be hard to accept. But I don't know why we should accept River of Pain as canon. Why the presence of the colony must be more problematic than a 21 marines' battalion before sending only 12 marines to rescue them ?

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#12
Canon just means something is officially part of the story.

All canon material should fit into the continuity, but not all that fits into the continuity is automatically canon.

JokersWarPig

JokersWarPig

#13
Personally I like ACM, and I enjoyed my time with it. Its one of those games that I wish still had a population because its multiplayer/co-op/Bug Hunt are where the game really shines for me.
It did some other things right, the look of the USCM, the music, the Raven sequence when you're being hunted, the weapon sounds. The motion tracker mechanic is the one thing I will always give them credit for and thats how every game with the USCM should be from now on.

I would say though that one of the biggest reasons ACM gets so much hate is due to the fact the actual game didn't look or feel anything like the (kind of infamous) E3 demo. People wanted that version of ACM, not the one we ended up with. Everyone, myself included, wanted to have that level of intensity, that many marines and that many aliens all on screen at once. Unfortunately no moments in the game even come close to that, the closest we get is when you're defending the vehicle bay on Hadleys or the hanger on the Sulaco...and those still leave a lot to be desired.


ACM's story is...for the most part garbage. Some things are good, but for the most part its all fat with very little meat. The best part of the campaign is the Weyland Yutani angle where they use the Sulaco and LV426 as bio weapons labs.

Quoteit's voice acting is particularly dead in the water

I thought Travis Willingham did a great job with O'Neal, who was honestly the best/most well acted character in the story.

Predator@Alien

Predator@Alien

#14
Quote from: The Kurgan on Oct 17, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
Canon just means something is officially part of the story.

All canon material should fit into the continuity, but not all that fits into the continuity is automatically canon.

That's right ! So are you okay to say that some story are not as legitimate as A:CM to be in the canon, about the continuity ?

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