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Author Topic: In your opinion do you think Alien 3 killed the fr...  (Read 20762 times)

Highland
Dec 01, 2019, 01:30:10 AM
Reply #225 on: Dec 01, 2019, 01:30:10 AM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo

Possibly. I don't quite see the difference between the marines and Dutch's squad though.

Alien doesn't suit comedy though that's for sure.

The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.


Frosty Venom
Dec 01, 2019, 02:33:32 AM
Reply #226 on: Dec 01, 2019, 02:33:32 AM
Q
I think Alien 3 damaged the franchise but in the process somehow managed to strengthen it.


Kimarhi
Dec 01, 2019, 03:09:21 AM
Reply #227 on: Dec 01, 2019, 03:09:21 AM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo

Possibly. I don't quite see the difference between the marines and Dutch's squad though.

Alien doesn't suit comedy though that's for sure.

The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.

The Marines whole setup is more realistic.  I got the impression that future wars in the Alien verse will be more built on quelling insurgencies than anything else.  They had firepower, but in order for that small a squad to work they would have to have firepower and be capable enough as individuals that they could do the job that it takes three or four people to do today.  Their 100 round mags, with multiple mags, is what a light machine gunner would carry today and they all carried it, so they already had more firepower than an equivalent squad would have today.  They had Doppler for incoming enemy contacts, and NVGs and thermal seemed to be standard issue.   I don't know how it is anywhere else, but we had to sign for those things and draw them for night ops and put them back when those operations were over.  And had to 550 cord them to our helmets so we wouldn't lose them (or tie thermals to our weapons).   

The only thing that I didn't find realistic was the smart gun.  A tracking weapon is a cool idea, but the way that it was positioned, if you couldn't go prone when incoming fire started up, then you would be a huge sitting duck. 


Predator crew talked a whole bunch of shit and backed it up by being a rescue mission that failed but then involved the absolute massacring of a base full of people with a weapon system a person couldn't physically carry.  A minigun has way too much recoil to steady itself when it isn't mounted to something, and it ejects rounds so fast that they guys had to wear flak vest to keep from bruising their ribs.

Rescue missions are the hardest missions to undertake on the planet, and IF you fail, you don't stick around to wipe out a base in enemy territory.  Dutch's team was superhuman.  That is some Captain America shit if Cap didn't try to keep people alive. 

The banter is actually fairly spot on in both movies, because soldiers of any level talk a shit ton of noise to each other.  Emotional hardening is just part of the process.  If words hurt you then how are you going to react when a 7.62 round caves in your buddy's face? 



Fiendishly Inventive
Dec 01, 2019, 05:54:06 AM
Reply #228 on: Dec 01, 2019, 05:54:06 AM
Q
I understand what you mean about weakening in the year of release, but strengthening in the long run, it's kind of how Beyond Good & Evil not getting a sequel for years meant it stayed in the minds of more people for longer.


Highland
Dec 01, 2019, 06:38:57 AM
Reply #229 on: Dec 01, 2019, 06:38:57 AM
Q
I think you can get away with more when the setting is the future. Ripley already told them the Aliens had acid for blood, but they went in shorts and T-shirt.

I enjoyed both to be honest. I'd love if one of the statue companies did both squads , id pay the $$$$


Kimarhi
Dec 01, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
Reply #230 on: Dec 01, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   


SM
Dec 01, 2019, 10:11:43 PM
Reply #231 on: Dec 01, 2019, 10:11:43 PM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo

Possibly. I don't quite see the difference between the marines and Dutch's squad though.

Alien doesn't suit comedy though that's for sure.

The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.

The Marines whole setup is more realistic.  I got the impression that future wars in the Alien verse will be more built on quelling insurgencies than anything else.  They had firepower, but in order for that small a squad to work they would have to have firepower and be capable enough as individuals that they could do the job that it takes three or four people to do today.  Their 100 round mags, with multiple mags, is what a light machine gunner would carry today and they all carried it, so they already had more firepower than an equivalent squad would have today.  They had Doppler for incoming enemy contacts, and NVGs and thermal seemed to be standard issue.   I don't know how it is anywhere else, but we had to sign for those things and draw them for night ops and put them back when those operations were over.  And had to 550 cord them to our helmets so we wouldn't lose them (or tie thermals to our weapons).   

The only thing that I didn't find realistic was the smart gun.  A tracking weapon is a cool idea, but the way that it was positioned, if you couldn't go prone when incoming fire started up, then you would be a huge sitting duck. 


Predator crew talked a whole bunch of shit and backed it up by being a rescue mission that failed but then involved the absolute massacring of a base full of people with a weapon system a person couldn't physically carry.  A minigun has way too much recoil to steady itself when it isn't mounted to something, and it ejects rounds so fast that they guys had to wear flak vest to keep from bruising their ribs.

Rescue missions are the hardest missions to undertake on the planet, and IF you fail, you don't stick around to wipe out a base in enemy territory.  Dutch's team was superhuman.  That is some Captain America shit if Cap didn't try to keep people alive. 

The banter is actually fairly spot on in both movies, because soldiers of any level talk a shit ton of noise to each other.  Emotional hardening is just part of the process.  If words hurt you then how are you going to react when a 7.62 round caves in your buddy's face?

I love it when you talk army.



StrangeShape
Dec 01, 2019, 11:30:57 PM
Reply #233 on: Dec 01, 2019, 11:30:57 PM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo



The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.

Well, Prometheus took a whooole lot from the movie too. I think if the movie would stick close to the comic series set on a different planet it would have been different enough. Only the idea of Holding the queen to set up the hunt wouldve been the same. Well, and a Predator on our side


Local Trouble
Dec 01, 2019, 11:46:38 PM
Reply #234 on: Dec 01, 2019, 11:46:38 PM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   

They still went in with Smart guns and nukes though...

Could be SOP whenever there's a loss of contact between a colony and the network.

SM?


Nightmare Asylum
Dec 01, 2019, 11:53:58 PM
Reply #235 on: Dec 01, 2019, 11:53:58 PM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo



The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.

Well, Prometheus took a whooole lot from the movie too. I think if the movie would stick close to the comic series set on a different planet it would have been different enough. Only the idea of Holding the queen to set up the hunt wouldve been the same. Well, and a Predator on our side

I think in Prometheus' case, it isn't so much as pulling from AVP as it is that Prometheus and AVP both pulled from some of the same sources of inspiration.

That quote about Ridley's response when Lindelof brought up AVP always makes me laugh. :D



Nightmare Asylum
Dec 02, 2019, 12:47:10 AM
Reply #237 on: Dec 02, 2019, 12:47:10 AM
Q
Ridley hasn't even seen it. :D

I don't even know if he's seen Resurrection, to be honest. He seems to have implied seeing Alien 3 at some point by mentioning that one took place in a prison, or something. :P



Highland
Dec 02, 2019, 02:05:49 AM
Reply #239 on: Dec 02, 2019, 02:05:49 AM
Q
Predator is only considered more hammy because of the human characters. Both creatures benefit from a more horror based theme regardless of the movie they are in. The only reason you wouldn't put Aliens in Predator is the Earth setting.

Indeed horror benefits both, but hammy characters only benefit Predator. To Alien it does all kinds of damage. imo



The best AVP would have been the original comic, but Anderson took to many elements, you couldn't make it now.

Well, Prometheus took a whooole lot from the movie too. I think if the movie would stick close to the comic series set on a different planet it would have been different enough. Only the idea of Holding the queen to set up the hunt wouldve been the same. Well, and a Predator on our side

and the female hero and the hero Predator. It would have been the exact same movie.

I'm still disappointed they didn't do a pitch black and go budget off world. Wouldn't have even been that hard. Could have still even kept the snow if you wanted.


 

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