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Author Topic: In your opinion do you think Alien 3 killed the fr...  (Read 22388 times)

SM
Sep 03, 2019, 04:30:40 AM
Reply #30 on: Sep 03, 2019, 04:30:40 AM
Q
Think I have it stashed with some other Res-era mags somewhere.


Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 08:17:45 AM
Reply #31 on: Sep 03, 2019, 08:17:45 AM
Q
It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise, it would be Aliens. It's a great action movie, no doubt about it. But it destroyed the mystery of the Alien and was responsible for a formulaic approach in making the stuff after it (Movies, Comics and Novels).

The entire Alien universe began to shrink and even Ridley wasn't able to really bring back the sense of wonder, horror and mystery with his prequels that was there in the first Alien movie.

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« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2019, 08:26:55 AM by Doctor Ash »

SM
Sep 03, 2019, 09:14:24 AM
Reply #32 on: Sep 03, 2019, 09:14:24 AM
Q
I don't think it's unpopular so much as nonsensical.

Before Aliens there was no franchise. There was a handful of merch.


Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 09:21:57 AM
Reply #33 on: Sep 03, 2019, 09:21:57 AM
Q
I don't think it's unpopular so much as nonsensical.

Before Aliens there was no franchise. There was a handful of merch.
Maybe. But the decline started with the decissions that were made for this movie imo.

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SM
Sep 03, 2019, 11:07:02 AM
Reply #34 on: Sep 03, 2019, 11:07:02 AM
Q
How did it shrink the universe and what formula was copied for films, novels and comics that followed?  Some comics indeed had lots of Aliens and marines; but a great deal more did not.


Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
Reply #35 on: Sep 03, 2019, 11:19:26 AM
Q
How did it shrink the universe and what formula was copied for films, novels and comics that followed?  Some comics indeed had lots of Aliens and marines; but a great deal more did not.
Making the Aliens into not much more than bugs and insects instead of hostile and intelligent incomprensible lovecraftian creatures and using them in masses for action scenes mixed with superficial horror.



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SM
Sep 03, 2019, 11:24:51 AM
Reply #36 on: Sep 03, 2019, 11:24:51 AM
Q
There's plenty of stories that delve into horror, and it's not like the first creature was overly intelligent.  "Ignorant" was the word O'Bannon used.  There's intelligence in the Aliens tactics in the second film.


Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
Reply #37 on: Sep 03, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
Q
There's plenty of stories that delve into horror, and it's not like the first creature was overly intelligent.  "Ignorant" was the word O'Bannon used.  There's intelligence in the Aliens tactics in the second film.
Maybe not in his deeds. But Big Chap always had an aura of a cunning and devious intelligence mixed with sadism and hostility that made the first movie really frightening.

Since Aliens they lost this somehow for me. I can see them just as relatively intelligent instinctdriven animals with a few special biological advantages, which don't exist on earth like molecular acid and their way of reproduction which is similar to but more advanced than the way some insects and wasps procreate.

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« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2019, 11:39:24 AM by Doctor Ash »

razeak
Sep 03, 2019, 12:56:41 PM
Reply #38 on: Sep 03, 2019, 12:56:41 PM
Q
They always had insect elements.

I think there is a very good display of hostility in Aliens, even in comparison to Alien (Ferro, Burke, the swarm, Bishop bisection). Hostility is off the chart in Aliens.I think devious and cunning can be applied also. Cutting the power, alternate attack strategies, first encounter ambush, utilizing the suspended ceiling, stealth approach from water. They fit the definition of cunning.

Sadism, maybe not so much.  In Alien, the sadism appears to be limited to the Lambert scene. I think I would have appreciated some of that in Aliens though. The Queen's attack on Bishop can be considered sadistic though. She displays her power, and takes time bringing Bishop up for the kill. It's just not as drawn out as whatever Hell Lambert went through.


Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 01:02:45 PM
Reply #39 on: Sep 03, 2019, 01:02:45 PM
Q
They always had insect elements.

I think there is a very good display of hostility in Aliens, even in comparison to Alien (Ferro, Burke, the swarm, Bishop bisection). Hostility is off the chart in Aliens.I think devious and cunning can be applied also. Cutting the power, alternate attack strategies, first encounter ambush, utilizing the suspended ceiling, stealth approach from water. They fit the definition of cunning.

Sadism, maybe not so much.  In Alien, the sadism appears to be limited to the Lambert scene. I think I would have appreciated some of that in Aliens though. The Queen's attack on Bishop can be considered sadistic though. She displays her power, and takes time bringing Bishop up for the kill. It's just not as drawn out as whatever Hell Lambert went through.
Yeah, but everything they did appeared to be something caused by instinct and not because of reflection or planning. Beside maybe but i'm not sure, the queen attacking Bishop.

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« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2019, 01:11:38 PM by Doctor Ash »

Voodoo Magic
Sep 03, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Reply #40 on: Sep 03, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Q
It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise

I don't think your premise works because there was no franchise to kill before Aliens. Aliens made Alien a franchise. Alien was a brilliant film, yes, but much like Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) it was Aliens that turned Alien into a worldwide phenomenon. It created the franchise, not destroyed it.

Making the Aliens into not much more than bugs and insects instead of hostile and intelligent incomprensible lovecraftian creatures and using them in masses for action scenes mixed with superficial horror.

Yeah as mentioned here, the insect influences were baked into the Xenomorph already. Both Giger and Scott went on record to compare the Xeno to insects long before Aliens.



Doctor Ash
Sep 03, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
Reply #41 on: Sep 03, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
Q


It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise

I don't think your premise works because there was no franchise to kill before Aliens. Aliens made Alien a franchise. Alien was a brilliant film, yes, but much like Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) it was Aliens that turned Alien into a worldwide phenomenon. It created the franchise, not destroyed it.

You're right, it was very successful and one of the reasons the franchise grew to be as big as it was in its best times. But it also laid the seed of its downfall. There were so many different ways to follow up on Alien. Who knows what might have been, if another director with a different idea would have done a sequel instead of Cameron

Maybe we wouldn't even have a franchise now or it might have been different, bigger and more interesting than that what we have.

We'll never know...

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Kimarhi
Sep 03, 2019, 07:27:53 PM
Reply #42 on: Sep 03, 2019, 07:27:53 PM
Q
I think the studios decision to constantly include the Ripley character narrowed the scope.  I like A3 lots, but it is definitely smaller scale than Aliens because of the way they wrapped up Ripley story.

Then in Res, 200 years later they STILL haven't found another source of aliens so they bring back wet hair Ripley to get some.



Elmazalman
Sep 03, 2019, 10:00:47 PM
Reply #43 on: Sep 03, 2019, 10:00:47 PM
Q


It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise

I don't think your premise works because there was no franchise to kill before Aliens. Aliens made Alien a franchise. Alien was a brilliant film, yes, but much like Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) it was Aliens that turned Alien into a worldwide phenomenon. It created the franchise, not destroyed it.

You're right, it was very successful and one of the reasons the franchise grew to be as big as it was in its best times. But it also laid the seed of its downfall. There were so many different ways to follow up on Alien. Who knows what might have been, if another director with a different idea would have done a sequel instead of Cameron

Maybe we wouldn't even have a franchise now or it might have been different, bigger and more interesting than that what we have.

We'll never know...


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I’m grateful it went the way it did. The first follow-up to ALIEN may have been another JAWS 2 - an unworthy sequel that lacked the first film’s quality.
I’m thankful the ‘franchise’ has two genuine film classics.


The Old One
Sep 03, 2019, 10:25:55 PM
Reply #44 on: Sep 03, 2019, 10:25:55 PM
Q
Obviously not, judging by the franchise's recent output, but it took a long time to get something as good again with Isolation, Dead Orbit or The Cold Forge.


 

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