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Author Topic: In your opinion do you think Alien 3 killed the fr...  (Read 22132 times)

Kimarhi
Dec 02, 2019, 10:03:59 PM
Reply #255 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:03:59 PM
Q
Unless they're going up against another army as technically advanced as them, it's not really an issue.


You don't want a higher profile in battle, even if they were going against soldiers of today.   That 7.62 round going in any unprotected skin is still going to hurt the same.   

That said if the tracker was pretty proficient tech, then maybe it could function the same way that dudes who spend a ton of time clearing rooms.  Like Seals and Army SF etc.  It gets them before they get you.

That said knowing how Army tech works, and that Marine tech is always way behind, I doubt very much that either standard infantry units will ever get some kind of tech that surpasses the years of training it takes for a grunt to get that proficient. 


Local Trouble
Dec 02, 2019, 10:11:31 PM
Reply #256 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:11:31 PM
Q
It's also possible that the smartgun targeting system has a motion-tracking component to it as well, just like the sentry guns apparently do.

And even if the IR targeting system can't see the aliens, it should still see the marines with whatever IFF component it is that excludes them from being detected by their own motion trackers.  That may prevent a lot of friendly-fire accidents (at least, those involving the smartgun).

Either way, I still think the smartgun is probably reserved for bug hunts and they have something closer to a modern SAW for stand-up fights.

« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2019, 10:22:15 PM by Local Trouble »

Highland
Dec 02, 2019, 10:45:30 PM
Reply #257 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:45:30 PM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   

They still went in with Smart guns and nukes though...

Smart guns would just be the future equivalent of the automatic rifleman.   In the Army only two people per squad used to carry automatic rifles, and that would've been your saw gunner, as the M4s used to be only semi auto.

Presently most frontline units have m4a1, so technically everybody has full auto capability, but the SAW and the Smartgun would have higher rates of fires, and with the bipod/tripod the m249 uses and the chest harness the smartgun uses, they would be able to control those higher rates of fires better than the standard rifleman would with the m4a1............and the m41a.

Nukes all seemed to be under lock and key aboard the Sulaco. 

With a green man in charge.

Would you raid a nuclear powerplant with bullets, or not leave a secondary team somewhere else?

Doesn't seem very clever.


Local Trouble
Dec 02, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
Reply #258 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
Q
I wonder if Kimarhi ever had a CO like Gorman.


SM
Dec 02, 2019, 10:51:12 PM
Reply #259 on: Dec 02, 2019, 10:51:12 PM
Q
I always just figured Drake and Vasquez were aiming the old-fashioned way.

They were.  The Aliens don't show up in infrared in the heat of the hive.  Just before Drake's gun runs out, he's spraying wildly.

Aliens may show up quite easily when the ambient temperature is lower.

« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2019, 12:28:46 AM by SM »

Kimarhi
Dec 03, 2019, 12:10:53 AM
Reply #260 on: Dec 03, 2019, 12:10:53 AM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   

They still went in with Smart guns and nukes though...

Smart guns would just be the future equivalent of the automatic rifleman.   In the Army only two people per squad used to carry automatic rifles, and that would've been your saw gunner, as the M4s used to be only semi auto.

Presently most frontline units have m4a1, so technically everybody has full auto capability, but the SAW and the Smartgun would have higher rates of fires, and with the bipod/tripod the m249 uses and the chest harness the smartgun uses, they would be able to control those higher rates of fires better than the standard rifleman would with the m4a1............and the m41a.

Nukes all seemed to be under lock and key aboard the Sulaco. 

With a green man in charge.

Would you raid a nuclear powerplant with bullets, or not leave a secondary team somewhere else?

Doesn't seem very clever.

Marines are there to shoot stuff.  Since absolutely no Marine picked up the fact that they were under big fusion reactors, I think it is safe to assume they aren't any smarter in the future than they are right now.


The failure comes from Gorman not immediately calling his troops back and redistributing proper ammo and weapons.  And as RD said way back in the day, typically you would have a final ORP to do any last minute change to plans.............but that is getting pretty technical for a movie. 



I wonder if Kimarhi ever had a CO like Gorman.

Most of my CO's were former enlisted first.   Typically this is a good thing because they've already done what you have done as an enlisted soldier and can relate to what you are doing.  They are also usually tactically more proficient.  But you still get those guys who are only in it for the promotions and are just using their CO time at the company level to proceed to battalion. 

I've only had one XO (became CO after I left) I thought gave the slightest damn about his soldiers and that was way back in the FA days. 

« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2019, 09:58:59 AM by Kimarhi »

Local Trouble
Dec 03, 2019, 12:24:35 AM
Reply #261 on: Dec 03, 2019, 12:24:35 AM
Q
Marines are there to shoot stuff.  Since absolutely no Marine picked up the fact that they were under big fusion reactors, I think it is safe to assume they aren't any smarter in the future than they are right now.

 :laugh:

The failure comes from Gorman not immediately calling his troops back and redistributing proper ammo and weapons.  And as RD said way back in the day, typically you would have a final ORP to do any last minute change to plans.............but that is getting pretty technical for a movie.

This?

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=50066.msg1867596#msg1867596


SM
Dec 03, 2019, 12:31:20 AM
Reply #262 on: Dec 03, 2019, 12:31:20 AM
Q
The hubris is the point.


Local Trouble
Dec 03, 2019, 02:18:44 AM
Reply #263 on: Dec 03, 2019, 02:18:44 AM
Q
Are you sure you don't just feel protective of Gorman now?


SM
Dec 03, 2019, 03:47:20 AM
Reply #264 on: Dec 03, 2019, 03:47:20 AM
Q
"Now"?



SM
Dec 03, 2019, 04:17:56 AM
Reply #266 on: Dec 03, 2019, 04:17:56 AM
Q
"he"?


Highland
Dec 03, 2019, 06:07:23 AM
Reply #267 on: Dec 03, 2019, 06:07:23 AM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   

They still went in with Smart guns and nukes though...

Smart guns would just be the future equivalent of the automatic rifleman.   In the Army only two people per squad used to carry automatic rifles, and that would've been your saw gunner, as the M4s used to be only semi auto.

Presently most frontline units have m4a1, so technically everybody has full auto capability, but the SAW and the Smartgun would have higher rates of fires, and with the bipod/tripod the m249 uses and the chest harness the smartgun uses, they would be able to control those higher rates of fires better than the standard rifleman would with the m4a1............and the m41a.

Nukes all seemed to be under lock and key aboard the Sulaco. 

With a green man in charge.

Would you raid a nuclear powerplant with bullets, or not leave a secondary team somewhere else?

Doesn't seem very clever.

Marines are there to shoot stuff.  Since absolutely no Marine picked up the fact that they were under big fusion reactors, I think it is safe to assume they aren't any smarter in the future than they are right now.


The failure comes from Gorman not immediately calling his troops back and redistributing proper ammo and weapons.  And as RD said way back in the day, typically you would have a final ORP to do any last minute change to plans.............but that is getting pretty technical for a movie. 



I wonder if Kimarhi ever had a CO like Gorman.

Most of my CO's were former enlisted first.   Typically this is a good thing because they've already done what you have done as an enlisted soldier and can relate to what you are doing.  They are also usually tactically more proficient.  But you still get those guys who are only in it for the promotions and are just using their CO at the company level to proceed to battalion. 

I've only had one XO I thought gave the slightest damn about his soldiers and that was way back in the FA days. 

That's why I'm saying the realism of the Marines doesn't seem to be that much better than the realism of Dutches squad, unless you're talking purely equipment. I'd even argue the military is better represented in Dutches squad than in Aliens.

Shit only get's real in Aliens when Ripley gets put in charge.


HuDaFuK
Dec 03, 2019, 09:57:50 AM
Reply #268 on: Dec 03, 2019, 09:57:50 AM
Q
It's also possible that the smartgun targeting system has a motion-tracking component to it as well, just like the sentry guns apparently do.

According to the Tech Manual it doesn't. And that's really the only in-depth technical info we have on it.

And even if the IR targeting system can't see the aliens, it should still see the marines with whatever IFF component it is that excludes them from being detected by their own motion trackers.  That may prevent a lot of friendly-fire accidents (at least, those involving the smartgun).

Considering Gorman feels the need to check with Apone that none of the men are around when Frost picks up Newt on the tracker, the tech is far from foolproof.


Kimarhi
Dec 03, 2019, 10:05:28 AM
Reply #269 on: Dec 03, 2019, 10:05:28 AM
Q
Nobody believed Ripley.  Burked only took a shot in the dark just to see if she was legit or not.   

They still went in with Smart guns and nukes though...

Smart guns would just be the future equivalent of the automatic rifleman.   In the Army only two people per squad used to carry automatic rifles, and that would've been your saw gunner, as the M4s used to be only semi auto.

Presently most frontline units have m4a1, so technically everybody has full auto capability, but the SAW and the Smartgun would have higher rates of fires, and with the bipod/tripod the m249 uses and the chest harness the smartgun uses, they would be able to control those higher rates of fires better than the standard rifleman would with the m4a1............and the m41a.

Nukes all seemed to be under lock and key aboard the Sulaco. 

With a green man in charge.

Would you raid a nuclear powerplant with bullets, or not leave a secondary team somewhere else?

Doesn't seem very clever.

Marines are there to shoot stuff.  Since absolutely no Marine picked up the fact that they were under big fusion reactors, I think it is safe to assume they aren't any smarter in the future than they are right now.


The failure comes from Gorman not immediately calling his troops back and redistributing proper ammo and weapons.  And as RD said way back in the day, typically you would have a final ORP to do any last minute change to plans.............but that is getting pretty technical for a movie. 



I wonder if Kimarhi ever had a CO like Gorman.

Most of my CO's were former enlisted first.   Typically this is a good thing because they've already done what you have done as an enlisted soldier and can relate to what you are doing.  They are also usually tactically more proficient.  But you still get those guys who are only in it for the promotions and are just using their CO at the company level to proceed to battalion. 

I've only had one XO I thought gave the slightest damn about his soldiers and that was way back in the FA days. 

That's why I'm saying the realism of the Marines doesn't seem to be that much better than the realism of Dutches squad, unless you're talking purely equipment. I'd even argue the military is better represented in Dutches squad than in Aliens.

Shit only get's real in Aliens when Ripley gets put in charge.

And I'm telling you that it isn't. 

There is a reason Delta bails after rescuing hostages and doesn't stay around to engage a whole taliban/al qaeda/isis camp.  Because to carry the ammo that Dutch's company would need to clear that out would make each one of those guys look like they were packing death stranding worth of gear.  You also can't just discount what the enemy would do.  Typically they aren't going to sit and wait for you to massacre them.  If you breach any camp expect a QRF to be immediately coming your way.  What Dutch did would be a suicide mission in real life.  Nobody is that good. 

They both have 80s stereotypes but only one of the crews are superhuman.  Once the first contact begins in Aliens, the Marines are brought back down to earth real quick. 



It's also possible that the smartgun targeting system has a motion-tracking component to it as well, just like the sentry guns apparently do.

According to the Tech Manual it doesn't. And that's really the only in-depth technical info we have on it.

And even if the IR targeting system can't see the aliens, it should still see the marines with whatever IFF component it is that excludes them from being detected by their own motion trackers.  That may prevent a lot of friendly-fire accidents (at least, those involving the smartgun).

Considering Gorman feels the need to check with Apone that none of the men are around when Frost picks up Newt on the tracker, the tech is far from foolproof.

Yeah, that's the one.  Though after that I did reclass to 12b (I was 13p at the time) so did get more than a little familiarity with what RD was talking about.    Sapper squads are based off of infantry squads, except we carry other equipment.  Mainly explosives.

 




« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2019, 10:31:55 AM by Kimarhi »

 

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