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Author Topic: CoolProps Unveil Predator Hound Concept Maquette!  (Read 2378 times)

Tubecity
Jul 23, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Reply #30 on: Jul 23, 2019, 02:16:34 PM
Q
Kurgan, I take your point about the shoulder mount, and about hunting vs. war.

It's not the extendable aspect of the Pred spear that is, theoretically, impractical. It's the fact that both the P2 and AVP versions can only be grasped in the middle. That achieves nothing, apart from making it seem vaguely weird and cool. Of course a retractable spear might have certain advantages of carriage. However, a weapon designed so that you can only make use of half the total length makes no practical sense, retractable or otherwise.


Tubecity
Jul 23, 2019, 02:36:55 PM
Reply #31 on: Jul 23, 2019, 02:36:55 PM
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Ironman,

The Pred wrist-blades and the Indian pata or gauntlet-sword are quite different in two important respects. First, the single long blade of the pata projects out in line with the forearm, functioning as a very effective limb-extension. The Pred blades are set above the arm and out of alignment, making them anatomically inefficient. And as Kurgan points out, the wrist blades leave the hand incredibly vulnerable in a fight.

Second, the cutting edges on the pata are oriented so that all the strongest muscles of the arm and shoulder can be employed to strike, employing the overarm blow, which we can probably regard as a hardwired, instinctual human attack pattern. When you rotate the blade(s) 90 degrees as on the Pred blades, you lose almost all the muscular power that would be available otherwise. The wrist blades are powered by the rotator-cuff, and not much else. I'm assuming that the Pred musculature is basically the same as a human's.

Don't get me wrong- I love the Pred and all of his weird weaponry. It just wouldn't work for humans. There are no wrist-blades anywhere in human history. The pata and its various punch dagger relatives might seem sort of the same, but they are fundamentally different.


SuperiorIronman
Jul 23, 2019, 02:45:41 PM
Reply #32 on: Jul 23, 2019, 02:45:41 PM
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They can, the spears just aren't completely meant to be used in combat which is why they're commonly thrown (and given they'd be hunting humans it's not common they would enter combat outside of stabbings). If you're familiar with Darth Maul of the Star Wars prequels you'd see he uses a similar weapon. Ray Park (the man who physically portrayed Darth Maul) actually is flipping around with the lightsaber stand-in. Not exactly the same thing, but the setup can be maneuverable.

However they do have a weapon that is primarily used for combat in the Glaive and we have seen alternate spears which are meant to be used like a polearm (resembling a Naginta).


Voodoo Magic
Jul 23, 2019, 02:51:04 PM
Reply #33 on: Jul 23, 2019, 02:51:04 PM
Q
Kurgan, I take your point about the shoulder mount, and about hunting vs. war.

It's not the extendable aspect of the Pred spear that is, theoretically, impractical. It's the fact that both the P2 and AVP versions can only be grasped in the middle. That achieves nothing, apart from making it seem vaguely weird and cool. Of course a retractable spear might have certain advantages of carriage. However, a weapon designed so that you can only make use of half the total length makes no practical sense, retractable or otherwise.

Tubecity, that's incorrect. You need to watch Predator 2 again brother. Just because the City Hunter only grabs the middle to extend the spear, doesn't mean he can't grab the spear anywhere else on the shaft. There's sometimes in the meatpacking plant scenes where he's two handing it, and neither hand is holding the middle, much like this home video art:




« Last Edit: Jul 23, 2019, 02:55:06 PM by Voodoo Magic »

The Kurgan
Jul 23, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
Reply #34 on: Jul 23, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
Q
Iam with Ironman here and think the predator's spear is a throwing weapon first, a stabbing one second. And for that purpose it seems long enough.

And while not using the full possible reach in melee, it gives some. But i agree that they surely had cool points in mind  when designing it. Nevertheless it does what it is intended to do.

The main close combat polearm seems to be the glaive and not the spear. 

Iam no expert on spear combat, but how big is the reach advantage anyway when we are not talking about infantry mass battles and more like a duel or two or three opponents max?

I can imagin that having two spear points may be an advantage when fighting more than one opponent.

Edit: Looking at Voodoo's pic i can see him doing some Maul esque moves like Ironman suggested.



« Last Edit: Jul 23, 2019, 03:08:15 PM by The Kurgan »


Tubecity
Jul 23, 2019, 05:27:43 PM
Reply #36 on: Jul 23, 2019, 05:27:43 PM
Q
Pred spear as a throwing weapon-
come on guys, where have we ever seen any kind of functional throwing spear, javelin, dart, arrow, etc made so that the two halves are symmetrical? It won't work. The head has to be heavier than the tail or butt, or it won't cast well. Just go and try it. Try to throw any evenly balanced  stick as if it is a javelin. It doesn't work, at least, not very well. Try to shoot an arrow with no head on it. Try to fly a model airplane with no weight in the nose.

Kevin Peter Hall may have been able to grasp the thing nearer one end in his other hand (being a great actor with an intuitive sense of how his character should move), but he had thick rubber gloves on, and he only had to get the shot, not actually fight. The weapon itself is patently designed with a short hand-grip in the middle (too short to get any decent leverage with two hands) and symmetrical extensions coming out of either end, both covered in hooks which look cool but render changing grips difficult if not painful.

The designers either didn't understand weapons or they knew that if the weapons were too practical, they would also be too recognisable, familiar and seemingly ordinary, and therefore wouldn't serve the character. Certainly Stan and Co were masters of serving the character.

Ironman- I'm not convinced that choreographed light sabre-fighting in a space opera counts as evidence for how real weapons work.







 

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