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Author Topic: Alien: Night Shift - 40th Anniversary Short Film  (Read 6701 times)

Voodoo Magic
Apr 15, 2019, 11:57:13 AM
Reply #135 on: Apr 15, 2019, 11:57:13 AM
Q
Alien is a female led franchise.

Time to red shirt all the men. This is horror. Where's the suspense in that?

To me, in an effort to keep Alien from becoming stale and overplayed, you never box yourself in a corner like this. The more you take that path the more dumb and predictable it gets within a franchise of no reocurring characters especially when practically all the other characters always get killed. It's hard enough not to get repetitive with Alien.

I had the luxury or seeing Alien for the first time not knowing who would survive. That feeling of unknown dread would be a welcome return.

Make it a majority of protagonist females, but throw in a male and surprising duo once in a while. Keep the audience guessing. Unless they go back to a reocurring lead, this is the only way you get back to a truly horrific experience.


Corporal Hicks
Apr 15, 2019, 12:06:12 PM
Reply #136 on: Apr 15, 2019, 12:06:12 PM
Q
Hicks makes it through the end of Aliens. Morse makes it through Alien 3. Johner, Vriess make it through Resurrection. David makes it through Prometheus. Tennessee makes it through Covenant (and David, but he's antagonist by this point).

So that's 5 out of 6 films where male characters have made it through until the end. That's the exact same number of movies where a female character has also made it through to the closing credits.

It's not like these are films that are entirely male casts and one female. Both sexes die plenty in these films and we've also had men surviving until the end in most of the films actually.

Like I said earlier, for me the main problem is to do with the marketing showing us who the leading lady is and spoiling that she'll be one of the ones to inevitably make it through to the end. Leading lady = a final survivor.


Not Jonsey
Apr 15, 2019, 01:03:40 PM
Reply #137 on: Apr 15, 2019, 01:03:40 PM
Q
Jonsey made it to the end of both Alien and Aliens! So that's 6 for 6!


Samhain13
Apr 15, 2019, 01:06:05 PM
Reply #138 on: Apr 15, 2019, 01:06:05 PM
Q
Hicks makes it through the end of Aliens. Morse makes it through Alien 3. Johner, Vriess make it through Resurrection. David makes it through Prometheus. Tennessee makes it through Covenant (and David, but he's antagonist by this point).

So that's 5 out of 6 films where male characters have made it through until the end. That's the exact same number of movies where a female character has also made it through to the closing credits.

And in Predator movies the secondary female character always lives. Huh, series about pussyfaced monsters always has male leads, series about dickheaded monsters always has female leads. Last Predator movies just had to add a sexually frustated girl as the villain to be a complete contrast of the Alien ones.




Voodoo Magic
Apr 15, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Reply #141 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Q
Hicks makes it through the end of Aliens. Morse makes it through Alien 3. Johner, Vriess make it through Resurrection. David makes it through Prometheus. Tennessee makes it through Covenant (and David, but he's antagonist by this point).

So that's 5 out of 6 films where male characters have made it through until the end. That's the exact same number of movies where a female character has also made it through to the closing credits.

It's not like these are films that are entirely male casts and one female. Both sexes die plenty in these films and we've also had men surviving until the end in most of the films actually.

Like I said earlier, for me the main problem is to do with the marketing showing us who the leading lady is and spoiling that she'll be one of the ones to inevitably make it through to the end. Leading lady = a final survivor.

I think you missed my whole entire point by counting vaginas and penises (sorry David) and seeing who made it through to the end.  ;D  Case in point, if someone wished that in the next Predator film, to freshen it up, the main hero role would be female, I wouldn't point out Anna or Leona made it through the end of P1 and P2.

I also wasn't referring to franchises where you have a reocurring hero like Ripley... which by time Aliens came out, Ripley is the star, she's the returning hero, and Hicks is just a side character, as is Bishop as is Newt. We all know Ripley is the hero going in. We came to see her. So take those first four films away.

What I was getting at is, if the Alien model of the future becomes like Predator where there is no returning hero, the predictability of your main hero always being female.. Shaw, Daniels, the 6 short films, and beyond, making them all female as a rule, will be a detriment to establishing horror and become predictable in my opinion. This is Alien. This is horror. They have a real opportunity here, to make horror films like the first Alien, where no character is safe. But you're not going to get there strictly by declaring Alien is a "female led franchise" and by doing so, telegraphing who's going to likely overcome beyond the others in each installment. That was my point.

Now, if they go back to a reocurring main female hero like Ripley, then we're not having this conversation.  :)


HuDaFuK
Apr 15, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Reply #142 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
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I do think it would be interesting to have an Alien movie with an unequivocal male hero.

Not because I have any issue with the leads typically being women, but because, as Voodoo says, at this stage it would mix things up and allow for some surprise.


Samhain13
Apr 15, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Reply #143 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Q
Ridley should put a male lead on the next movie. I'm tired of seeing David killing Ripley wannabes for the lols, the phallus is David's weakness. Only someone with massive gains can beat David and make sure that man, not synthetic, dominates this galaxy now and always.

« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019, 02:41:20 PM by Samhain13 »

LastSonofKrypton
Apr 15, 2019, 02:36:18 PM
Reply #144 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:36:18 PM
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Remember the good old days when nobody gave a shit about the gender or race of a lead character and it was all about the quality of the movie?  I miss those days, I had a Sega Dreamcast and optimism


HuDaFuK
Apr 15, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Reply #145 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Q
It's not that I care about their sex, it's more that heading every new film up with a Ripley-lite (Lex, Shaw, Daniels) is getting a bit tired. If they can't create a female character who isn't just a pale imitation of her, make it a fella and you're immediately rid of those comparisons.


Corporal Hicks
Apr 15, 2019, 02:39:43 PM
Reply #146 on: Apr 15, 2019, 02:39:43 PM
Q
What I was getting at is, if the Alien model of the future becomes like Predator where there is no returning hero, the predictability of your main hero always being female.. Shaw, Daniels, the 6 short films, and beyond, making them all female as a rule, will be a detriment to establishing horror and become predictable in my opinion. This is Alien. This is horror. They have a real opportunity here, to make horror films like the first Alien, where no character is safe. But you're not going to get there strictly by declaring Alien is a "female led franchise" and by doing so, telegraphing who's going to likely overcome beyond the others in each installment. That was my point.

I don't think switching it to a male lead is necessarily going to solve anything like that. Again, because I think it always comes down to the marketing showing that off way too soon and if they decide to go for a leading man, then they'll only show it in all well in advanced.

I've thought about this in the past. I've probably even talked about it on the podcast. I've also thought about just going full female cast, but of late I just believe it comes primarily back to those trailers and promotional material. If they truly wanted to surprise us, they'd need to do a better job of hiding all of that before hand.

There's of course going to be better ensemble balancing within the script as well but yeah, I don't think that's the main issue these days with pulling off surprising elements like Ripley's lead.

It's not that I care about their sex, it's more that heading every new film up with a Ripley-lite (Lex, Shaw, Daniels) is getting a bit tired. If they can't create a female character who isn't just a pale imitation of her, make it a fella and you're immediately rid of those comparisons.

The Ripley-lite thing is a whole other issue IMHO.

« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019, 02:48:05 PM by Corporal Hicks »

Voodoo Magic
Apr 15, 2019, 03:14:00 PM
Reply #147 on: Apr 15, 2019, 03:14:00 PM
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I don't think switching it to a male lead is necessarily going to solve anything like that. Again, because I think it always comes down to the marketing showing that off way too soon and if they decide to go for a leading man, then they'll only show it in all well in advanced.

Not necessarily. It doesn't have to be telegraphed in marketing. I'm not a big fan of 'Life' or 'Mission to Mars' but I give them credit, I never saw Ryan Reynolds or Tim Robbins deaths coming, let alone so early in the movie. These were not telegraphed in the trailers and commercials I saw. Good marketing.

In Alien you didn't know who would come out on top. But if you go with declaring Alien a "female led franchise", the greatest marketing in the world won't matter because their hand has already been shown, and we'll all know going into it... which is counterproductive to good horror.


Corporal Hicks
Apr 15, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
Reply #148 on: Apr 15, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
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Not necessarily. It doesn't have to be telegraphed in marketing. I'm not a big fan of 'Life' or 'Mission to Mars' but I give them credit, I never saw Ryan Reynolds or Tim Robbins deaths coming, let alone so early in the movie. These were not telegraphed in the trailers and commercials I saw. Good marketing.

Exactly! They don't have to. But more often than not they do. I think it'd be nice if going forward it wasn't telegraphed so badly.

Quote
In Alien you didn't know who would come out on top. But if you go with declaring Alien a "female led franchise", the greatest marketing in the world won't matter because their hand has already been shown, and we'll all know going into it... which is counterproductive to good horror.

There's a big difference between being that first entry that was actively trying to surprise people with that Ripley decision and being an established 40 year old franchise that consistently goes for female leads, is known for being a franchise that helped push strong female leads and has a defining character in Ripley. It is a female led franchise, there's no two ways about that.

But it's not like every single Alien film (and even counting the AvPs) have just had a single female character in the entire cast either. I don't disagree that it's obvious the main female lead is going to make it through to the end, but a big part of that problem is they're not written as an ensemble piece in the same way Alien was, and the marketing telling us who the main lady was.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be against a male protagonist being the main character who survives to another Alien film. I just think it'd be pointed out to us long long before the film ever plays and be equally ineffective in what you're seeking. There's just far more to getting that same level of Ripley surprise than let's just make the survivor a guy.

« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019, 03:28:00 PM by Corporal Hicks »

Voodoo Magic
Apr 15, 2019, 03:43:36 PM
Reply #149 on: Apr 15, 2019, 03:43:36 PM
Q
I'm not saying I wouldn't be against a male protagonist being the main character who survives to another Alien film. I just think it'd be pointed out to us long long before the film ever plays and be equally ineffective in what you're seeking. There's just far more to getting that same level of Ripley surprise than let's just make the survivor a guy.

If it was telegraphed by the script and director, indeed it would be counterproductive. But I believe any good ensemble horror script can hide it as well as marketing.

Imagine 15 minutes left in the film, two remaining  crew members, female and male, running down a corridor, red lights flashing, alarms blaring, sprinting for the airlock, Run!! Hurry up!! They turn a corner, almost there!!! WHAM!!! An Alien tail is thrusted in the female's torso. Nooooooo!!!!! Gunfire!!!  Blam blam blam blam! Noooooo! What the f**k!!!!!

« Last Edit: Apr 15, 2019, 03:46:42 PM by Voodoo Magic »

 

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