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Author Topic: Has you instantly realise all of the stupidity in ...  (Read 1148 times)

CelticP
Feb 12, 2019, 04:21:23 AM
Reply #45 on: Feb 12, 2019, 04:21:23 AM
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To me, Prometheus characters seemed to do far dumber things than the Covenant crew.  At least, enough for me to notice on the first watch. I'll never forget that stupid "getting lost and petting a hissing alien snake" scene.

The getting lost scene feels like there was something missing, like an insert or some kind of explanation showing why the equipment wasn't working. But the "petting the alien" scene has always been one of the lamer complaints with the film because it lines up directly with the character of Milborne, who's an overeager biologist who is just wants to find some critters. Sadly they cut the scene showing his uncontrollable glee with the little worms before things go bad, but that still doesn't remove it from his character.

He's a Steve Irwin type. He loves all living creatures and against better judgement, wants to pet it. That's his flaw. And he pays for it. I think having every character react "rationally" would make for a pretty short and not very realistic film. People don't act rationally all the time, in some cases, at all. So it's fine to have characters do dumb things if it lines up with who they are.

Vicker's death is dumb though. There's no excuse for that.



SM
Feb 12, 2019, 04:27:19 AM
Reply #46 on: Feb 12, 2019, 04:27:19 AM
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I don't mind the Millburn hammerpede scene that much, but it's undermined by him running away from the much safer dead biological specimen.


Corporal Hicks
Feb 12, 2019, 08:39:32 AM
Reply #47 on: Feb 12, 2019, 08:39:32 AM
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I think the difference is that the lack of biohazard material doesn't really drive parts of the plot in Aliens. But let's be honest, it does get a pass because it's more all around a a better experience and people are less likely to pick faults with something they enjoy.

For me, I don't think it's the characters being stupid as such. I think the film suffers a bit at the hands of its creator. ADF has them run mcguffin scans to make sure the planet is safe. Ridley can't be bothered by that. The scene with David looking over the eggs and nothing happening should have also been left in so it doesn't seem as daft.

Not entirely true, the ship does make scans of the planet but it's treated as background information.

I wouldn't say it's treated as background information. The lack of alarm in the scans is brought up a few times and it's one of the things that's paid some attention to during Ledward's interaction with the motes. He doesn't think anything can hurt him.


Alien³
Feb 12, 2019, 10:28:55 AM
Reply #48 on: Feb 12, 2019, 10:28:55 AM
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I don't mind the Millburn hammerpede scene that much, but it's undermined by him running away from the much safer dead biological specimen.

Was he running away from the dead engineers or too scared to face the reality that he himself was the product of a biological experiment that he previously deemed ridiculous? It’s speculation but I’ve always got that impression from his actions.

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2019, 10:32:55 AM by Alien³ »

Kradan
Feb 12, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
Reply #49 on: Feb 12, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
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I sort of think the blind trust the people in Covenant have in technology is an interesting aspect. I don't know if it's deliberate but it fits nicely in our times with the uncertainty of how humans and technology will co-exist in the future. There's a feeling in that film that humans are so used to technology that they never question it. They scan the planet and totally trust the results, then they meet David and don't even think that he could deceive... because he's a robot and it shouldn't happen, but it does. Even in Oram's final moments, he doesn't stop to think that David could be setting him up.

Into my opinion it was really intentional despite it sounds as trying to justify lazy writing


SM
Feb 12, 2019, 11:26:08 AM
Reply #50 on: Feb 12, 2019, 11:26:08 AM
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I don't mind the Millburn hammerpede scene that much, but it's undermined by him running away from the much safer dead biological specimen.

Was he running away from the dead engineers or too scared to face the reality that he himself was the product of a biological experiment that he previously deemed ridiculous? It’s speculation but I’ve always got that impression from his actions.

Nah, I just reckon he was being an inconsistent wuss and wanting to suck up to Fifield.


The Old One
Feb 13, 2019, 11:05:55 AM
Reply #51 on: Feb 13, 2019, 11:05:55 AM
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The Prometheus characters are far more unbelievable than those of Covenant for my money, that even includes those in both.


JokersWarPig
Feb 13, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
Reply #52 on: Feb 13, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
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The space truckers in Alien were smarter than all of the characters in the prequels.
The USCM squad were smarter than all the characters in the prequels, albeit far more arrogant and ill prepared.

The space truckers tried to take all the right precautions, Ash just (purposefully) mucked everything up.

The reason the marines are ill prepared in the movie seems pretty obvious to me. No one believes Ripley's account of what happened and they've also probably never encountered anything like the Alien before. That coupled with the fact the colony hadn't found anything like what she described (Prior to Burkes message) makes the scenario believable to me.
Even if they did believe here I don't think they'd have anything to properly combat/prevent what she described, but if we follow the EU (specifically Berserker) we know that they did develop weapons and equipment (Teape's deploy-able mask, the actual Berserker unit) as an answer to the Alien.

Certain character choices in Prometheus are pretty stupid after you watch it more than once. Scientists choosing to take off their helmets and breathe alien air is one of the most glaring to me. It would have been just as easy for them to write that someones helmet cracked, or they were running low on oxygen and a crew member chose to take the risk rather than die (ala Red Planet).
I give the biologist a little bit of a pass for getting close to the hammerpede, but only because he seemed to let his excitement get the better of him. Still a stupid choice though.

The same argument can easily be made for the first half of Covenant. Colonists or not, they really should have treated the situation with more caution. Admittedly I don't remember what scans they did, but do we know if the scans also accounted for something microbial/viral? Or if it also picked up wild life?
I mean I wouldn't want to go down to the surface of a planet without for sure knowing something in the water/air wont kill me, or without knowing that there's something down there like an alien brown recluse whose bite wont melt half my flesh off.


Oasis Nadrama
Feb 13, 2019, 05:37:18 PM
Reply #53 on: Feb 13, 2019, 05:37:18 PM
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Not only did the space truckers try to take all the right precautions, they were also CREATIVE.

They tried every solution they could think of, and after the chestburster sequence they also started building things. First the electric spears, then the incineration units, and in the novelization even the net they use is made for the occasion, designed specifically to resist molecular acid.

No one makes anything like that in any of the sequels, the characters do not create anymore, they just use stuff which is already there.  :( The closer you get to the combative inventivity of the Nostromo crew is the repurposing of the containment room and lead crucible in Alien 3.


SM
Feb 13, 2019, 07:08:12 PM
Reply #54 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:08:12 PM
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Yeah the Nostromo crew did the right thing by letting Alien on board against regulations and then had to hunt for the Alien without being able to use video cameras they didn't bother to repair.


JokersWarPig
Feb 13, 2019, 07:12:43 PM
Reply #55 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:12:43 PM
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Yeah the Nostromo crew did the right thing by letting Alien on board against regulations and then had to hunt for the Alien without being able to use video cameras they didn't bother to repair.

Technically Ash is the only one responsible for letting it in


SM
Feb 13, 2019, 07:19:56 PM
Reply #56 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:19:56 PM
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Dallas ordered the door be opened (in defiance of quarantine protocols - and balled Ripley out for not complying; supported by Lambert) and that they take off without completing repairs.

He was complicit.

« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2019, 07:21:31 PM by SM »

JokersWarPig
Feb 13, 2019, 07:37:11 PM
Reply #57 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:37:11 PM
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Dallas shares some of the blame for sure, but Ash actually did it.

Ripley, Parker and Brett aren't really at any kind of fault


SM
Feb 13, 2019, 07:39:26 PM
Reply #58 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:39:26 PM
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I'm challenging the notions above that 'the space truckers were smarter and took precautions'.


JokersWarPig
Feb 13, 2019, 07:40:29 PM
Reply #59 on: Feb 13, 2019, 07:40:29 PM
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its basically arguing "street smart vs book smart"


 

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