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Author Topic: Fred Dekker On The Predator Fan Reception and The ...  (Read 8970 times)

AhabPredator
Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PM
Reply #225 on: Jan 11, 2019, 08:24:32 PM
Q
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining.  Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.
That's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."

Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Yes! I couldn't remember the name.

Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".

At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.

Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.

Still is an opinion though.

Not really.  Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous.  It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc.  You can ignore them all you want but they are there.  There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company.  That side of things isn't "opinion".  "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....

But you can't deny the facts of this movie.  I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.

If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.

Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.

If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.

People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.

What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.

Reading this made me wonder where I've seen this line of thinking before and then I remembered exactly where.





Original Predator
Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Reply #226 on: Jan 11, 2019, 08:33:09 PM
Q
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy. 

You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS. 

And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there. 

Sorry I expected that.  As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for. 

And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie.  I liked the previews.  I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred.  I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies.  I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.

All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie.  Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here. 

It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words.  Fans shouldn't mince words either.  Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good.  It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.

This was put out by FOX.  Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous).  That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.






The Kurgan
Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AM
Reply #231 on: Jan 12, 2019, 12:23:23 AM
Q
"I'm sick of FOX p-issing on my leg and their fans telling me it's raining.  Even though it's been proven it's NOT rain, the fans still insist it is....." sorta thing.
That's still just "Anyone who disagrees with me is delusional and wrong."

Punisher: Dirty Laundry. Loved it.
Yes! I couldn't remember the name.

Not really...considering there have been 4 movies that have proven the true "delusion" and the "wrong" part....Sh-t directing, poorly executed concept, poorly executing editing, poorly executed story telling, forcing multiple plot expansion points, that don't piece together smoothly etc...aren't an "opinion".

At this point the only delusion is avoiding the topic completely (as you've done) and pretending "everything is fine" with this franchise.

Keep shouting "The Nice Guys!!" or "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang!!" tho.

Still is an opinion though.

Not really.  Even the simplest film class would be able to pick out the basic flaws/mechanics of this movie and the previous.  It's like taking a Lit-class and learning about run-on sentences or incorrect usage of "their/there/they're" etc.  You can ignore them all you want but they are there.  There are fact based things and fundamental flaws in this movie that are high-school level from a billion dollar company.  That side of things isn't "opinion".  "Opinion" would be "i'm choosing to ignore them and still like the movie...." or "They distracted the crap out of me and I didn't like the movie...." etc....

But you can't deny the facts of this movie.  I hate to say that even from a basic story-board perspective that both AVP's and Predators were fundamentally put together and edited better than The Predator.

If people enjoy a work of art, they enjoy a work of art. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. They do or they don't.

Nobody said the movie was flawless on a technical level, far from it. But if that does not prevent somebody from enjoying it or part of it, than that is a fact. Not an opinion.

If i say, based on the fact that i enjoyed this and that part of that movie, in my opinion it is an alright movie despite all it's flaws. Than my opinion is that it is an alrighty moviet. The enjoyment of this and that part is fact. Subjective yes, but still a fact.

People don't have the opinion that they enjoy a movie despite it's flaws or are delusional, they just do.

What you are claiming is the only objectively right thing is to not enjoy it or parts of it, which is again, your opinion.

Reading this made me wonder where I've seen this line of thinking before and then I remembered exactly where.



Reading what exactly?


Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy. 

You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS. 

And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there. 

Sorry I expected that.  As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for. 

And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie.  I liked the previews.  I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred.  I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies.  I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.

All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie.  Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here. 

It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words.  Fans shouldn't mince words either.  Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good.  It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.

This was put out by FOX.  Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous).  That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.


I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.

But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.


It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly...

They do?

They have some spies.  :P

But yeah, I think maybe it was Colin back then that first said some at Fox watched the site to see the fans reactions to stuff.

I guess the Predalien and it's eggbarfing did not go over all too well back then?  :P



Immortan Jonesy
Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AM
Reply #232 on: Jan 12, 2019, 12:30:43 AM
Q
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy. 

You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS. 

And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there. 

Sorry I expected that.  As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for. 

And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie.  I liked the previews.  I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred.  I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies.  I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.

All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie.  Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here. 

It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words.  Fans shouldn't mince words either.  Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good.  It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.

This was put out by FOX.  Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous).  That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.




I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.

But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.


Maybe some people are insecure.  :-\


Huggs
Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Reply #233 on: Jan 12, 2019, 01:29:11 AM
Q
Who can enjoy what? What defines good or not?

Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.

Sorry Fred

#ToxicFan


Wysps
Jan 12, 2019, 05:12:50 AM
Reply #234 on: Jan 12, 2019, 05:12:50 AM
Q
Never said you can't enjoy or can enjoy. 

You can do either....just have to admit on the basis of production it was a POS. 

And on the 4th try, and with all the "Shane Black-Kiss kiss bang bang, nice guys" talk....the production value (again which can be factually found) in 107 mins of film, was not there. 

Sorry I expected that.  As a fan that shouldn't be too much to ask for. 

And yes I'll admit (BigDaddyJohn) and HAVE admitted. I liked "aspects" of this movie.  I liked the previews.  I liked the Super Pred, the idea of a Super Pred.  I liked the Loonies and the concept of the Loonies.  I liked the Lab and the Lab scene.

All that tho I can't justify celebrating this movie.  Or patting it on the head softly, like so many do around here. 

It's a fact that FOX, scours this site very thoroughly (Hi Fox-employee) and I'm not gonna mince words.  Fans shouldn't mince words either.  Liking segments of a movie, or the "ideas" they tried to execute but didn't, doesn't make a movie "decent" or good.  It makes a few mins here and there tolerable/interesting for the viewer in what is otherwise a poorly executed film.

This was put out by FOX.  Not some second or third teir studio/company. They've made 4 Pred films that literally look and feel like Netflix type/style movies (that's being generous).  That's not just "ok" for a studio/company of FOX's size.




I think most of the people here agree on a lot of your points. In fact I don't think you will not find a lot of people here who deny that the movie has issues or are patting it on the head. Most people,me included, are pretty dissappionted with the movie we got.

But if everybody is allowed to like it, i don't get why you give the people, who actually do, shit, claiming they are delusional or objectivly wrong for doing so.


Maybe some people are insecure.  :-\

Seconded.  A lot of it probably stems from insecurity at some level.


DerelictShip
Jan 12, 2019, 01:12:35 PM
Reply #235 on: Jan 12, 2019, 01:12:35 PM
Q
Probably shouldn't be in the industry if you cant take criticism.

Especially if you're going to blame fans.

« Last Edit: Jan 12, 2019, 01:15:45 PM by DerelictShip »

Highland
Jan 12, 2019, 02:10:27 PM
Reply #236 on: Jan 12, 2019, 02:10:27 PM
Q
Who can enjoy what? What defines good or not?

Eh, I just think it's slow, boring, poorly written, and totally disrespectful of the fans and franchise. In my opinion, it's terrible as a film and sucks as a popcorn movie. That's all I have to say about that.

Sorry Fred

#ToxicFan

I think the main problem is they clearly farted around so much that they didn't know WTF was happening by the end. You can claim studio interference, but they probably interfered because the movie was terrible.

The cast is good, the effects are passable, the director is solid, the story might have been ok... had they not just put 85 clips together and then called it a movie.

Makes you wonder what power struggles and politics are involved that they can take $90 Million bucks and just spray it against a wall.


Predwars24
Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PM
Reply #237 on: Jan 13, 2019, 12:16:43 PM
Q


Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.
[/quote]

I'm only 19, and I think highly of the originals, have watched them since I was younger and still enjoy them. I've read a few comics but not too many of them, and I'd love to read the novels. I'm not going to say I know them as well as I want but I feel like generalizing a certain age group and saying they wouldn't like something is a bit far fetched. Especially nowadays when they can research certain things on fan wikis and such, to such a huge extent.


XenoHunter99
Jan 13, 2019, 08:40:28 PM
Reply #238 on: Jan 13, 2019, 08:40:28 PM
Q
@Voodoo Magic: That gif is hilarious!
@Predwars24: Not all young people think that way. But young people with fans for parents may end up being fans just because... Then they show their friends and... Voila! More fans!  ;D Of course, it would be better if the movie-making people could make some new films worthy of lifelong fandom. But that's likely too much to ask.


Stitch
Jan 14, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
Reply #239 on: Jan 14, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
Q

Quote
Ask 20-something's and younger about Alien and Predator. See what they say. Most of them don't know what it is or think the originals suck. Trust me, these have been my peers for ages.

I'm only 19, and I think highly of the originals, have watched them since I was younger and still enjoy them. I've read a few comics but not too many of them, and I'd love to read the novels. I'm not going to say I know them as well as I want but I feel like generalizing a certain age group and saying they wouldn't like something is a bit far fetched. Especially nowadays when they can research certain things on fan wikis and such, to such a huge extent.
I think there's a bigger pop cultural gap now between generations than there has been in the past. I'm 32 and I can have conversations about music and TV shows from the 60s and 70s because they were part of my childhood.
We watched repeats on TV because they were what was on TV. There's currently such a huge variety of media available that (other than on specific retro channels) you don't tend to see old repeats. This gives a different experience to younger viewers.
Alien is an old property, and so younger people are less likely to see it because it's not targeted at them, and there's so much more choice now. Sad, but true.

« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2019, 07:59:35 AM by Stitch »

 

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