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Author Topic: Upgrade vs. Fugitive - wasted opportunity  (Read 3569 times)


King geedorah
Sep 24, 2018, 04:04:11 PM
Reply #61 on: Sep 24, 2018, 04:04:11 PM
Q
Alien's ruthless instincts and I think intellect is being dismissed. It's a killing machine, but so adaptive, it's scary.

Welcome to 90% of avp material where the aliens get nerfed to make the predator look “cool”. Even as a kid first getting into the comics/books/games it annoyed me.


BigDaddyJohn
Sep 24, 2018, 05:10:33 PM
Reply #62 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:10:33 PM
Q
Even the height is in favor of the predators on film, despite both creatures supposed to be roughly the same height. The first Alien movie was perfect in this aspect, made you feel big chap was huge and intimidating all the time.


The Old One
Sep 24, 2018, 05:18:06 PM
Reply #63 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:18:06 PM
Q
If you have a "Covenant Xenomorph" figure, all you need to do is stand it upright to a JH figure to grasp what the genuine height difference is.
(NECA)


Gilfryd
Sep 24, 2018, 05:26:03 PM
Reply #64 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:26:03 PM
Q
They should have had Fugitive try to outsmart Upgrade...perhaps even have the two of them play a bit of cat and mouse in the forest, with Fugitive kinda in Dutch's position in the first film (outmatched but using his cunning)
You put more thought into this than the screenwriters did.

I think the problem with the normal Pred vs bigger Pred thing is no one REALLY wants to see the classic version lose - you should root for the underdog.


The Old One
Sep 24, 2018, 05:29:02 PM
Reply #65 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:29:02 PM
Q
True, & isn't helped by the fact that Fugitive's performance is the best Predator we've seen since JH & CH.


skull-splitter
Sep 24, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
Reply #66 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
Q
Alien's ruthless instincts and I think intellect is being dismissed. It's a killing machine, but so adaptive, it's scary.

Welcome to 90% of avp material where the aliens get nerfed to make the predator look “cool”. Even as a kid first getting into the comics/books/games it annoyed me.
You can thank James Cameron for that.



The Old One
Sep 24, 2018, 06:10:42 PM
Reply #68 on: Sep 24, 2018, 06:10:42 PM
Q
It's down to people's perspective on what "Aliens' is rather than what happens onscreen, influencing the EU media.
For instance, only a minor number of Aliens die onscreen due to the Colonial Marines.
But people assume more do.


The Cruentus
Sep 24, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
Reply #69 on: Sep 24, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
Q
I was a being a little facetious with that question, I am already aware of the tragic and willful ignorance behind the thoughts of some fans on Aliens. "Cameron turned them into bugs" "Cameron made them weak"  :P If someone prefers Alien or any other Alien movie then that is completely fine but making excuses like that is just silly.

Apparently it doesn't occur to those types of fans that the Aliens were already bugs since the first movie and never had to deal with 10mm explosive tip casing ammunition fired from experienced marines before. Big Chap is a living work of art and excellent movie monster, but it would die just the same if it dealt with Marines and not space truckers.

Admittedly, Aliens did influence the EU media as you said and while some comics, books and games have been good, they are also a tired format. Alien: Isolation was brilliant for a lot of reasons, one of them being that it references the first movie instead of the second one.
Marines with bad attitudes. Queen Aliens and pulse rifles gets repetitive after awhile. Its pretty much a good example of  why too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


The Old One
Sep 24, 2018, 06:40:28 PM
Reply #70 on: Sep 24, 2018, 06:40:28 PM
Q
My criticisms of "Aliens" funny enough, have nothing to do with the creatures.


PeterAnders7492
Sep 24, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
Reply #71 on: Sep 24, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
Q
They should have had Fugitive try to outsmart Upgrade...perhaps even have the two of them play a bit of cat and mouse in the forest, with Fugitive kinda in Dutch's position in the first film (outmatched but using his cunning)

I feel like the fight we got was uninspired

I agree. I also dislike the idea that the original predator is not "good enough" to hold a movie. He's the goddamn Predator! He is enough of a threat as he is!


Uncanny Antman
Sep 25, 2018, 03:37:53 AM
Reply #72 on: Sep 25, 2018, 03:37:53 AM
Q
I think the problem with the normal Pred vs bigger Pred thing is no one REALLY wants to see the classic version lose - you should root for the underdog.
And I can't recall a single movie that used the "New awesome one kills the stodgy old one" technique that actually made me think the new one was cool or scary.  It always comes off as lame and insecure, that the filmmaker can't think of any other way to do it than to try and somehow one-up previous directors.   Does anyone anywhere prefer the Spinosaur to the T-Rex, the Newborn to the Queen, or the Berserker or Upgrade to the original Predator?  I highly doubt it.


skull-splitter
Sep 25, 2018, 04:53:27 AM
Reply #73 on: Sep 25, 2018, 04:53:27 AM
Q
Really? How so?
-Aliens being run over
-Aliens being shot to bits in seemingly large numbers
-Aliens being mowed down by the sentries in a tunnel till the ammo runs out

Or at least suggested. Which in turn influenced later comics and films.

My main criticism of Aliens is the shallowness of the characters, even considered how well executed the film is. I don't hate the film by any means, but I do think many are blinded by the technical finesse that it displays, much like the other Cameron film of recent years ;)


Nathsp
Sep 25, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
Reply #74 on: Sep 25, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
Q
As a biologisy, i think cameron did a perfect job, he gave the aliens a interesting and realistic lifecycle,  he turn them into a social species.
Of course aliens died vs colonial marines, they had weapons, apc, the droship.. And they destroy all of these, they found another way to enter, during the whole movie they suggest they are smart creatures, the feeling is that even with weapons,  they got theyr ass kicked.
The queen even comunicates with ripley, he let her go..
So no, of course big chap looked diferent, he was facing space truckers with no armours, experience or tactics and a cat, aliens faced a group of experienced and well trained marines with explosive bullets..



 

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