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Author Topic: Upgrade vs. Fugitive - wasted opportunity  (Read 3568 times)


Samhain13
Sep 23, 2018, 10:36:23 PM
Reply #46 on: Sep 23, 2018, 10:36:23 PM
Q

To switch it up a bit, maybe we need a story where it's a hunting competition between 2 (normal) predators.

That's what all the comics and games have been doing so far and it was better than what we got in last 2 movies. Don't get why those film makers and writers need to keep adding this super predator crap over and over.

Best "bad predator" was the one from Predator: Bad Blood, way creepier and more baddass than the Berserkers or the Upgrade, the bastard was like the psychopathic serial killer of the predator race. The guy really enjoyed the killing like he entered a trance state when doing it lol and seemed to be even into cannibalism. His sick personality was much more threatening than the Upgrade's height.

« Last Edit: Sep 23, 2018, 10:43:49 PM by Samhain13 »

The Old One
Sep 23, 2018, 10:38:26 PM
Reply #47 on: Sep 23, 2018, 10:38:26 PM
Q
Personality is often more threatening than height.


Samhain13
Sep 23, 2018, 10:42:53 PM
Reply #48 on: Sep 23, 2018, 10:42:53 PM
Q
Yep and that's what they should have focused on Predators and The Predator. Not the creature's apperance and size.


The Old One
Sep 23, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
Reply #49 on: Sep 23, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
Q
Jim Thomas and John Thomas in combination with a good Director is what I'd prefer, if anything at this point.


Huntsman
Sep 24, 2018, 12:38:08 AM
Reply #50 on: Sep 24, 2018, 12:38:08 AM
Q
How many Predators usually go on a hunt at a time? One or two - three in the case of AvP. How many Aliens get killed during the course of a hunt? Usually many, because they’re a plague, with some becoming cannon fodder. There’s so many of them even after large populations have been massacred. The death of the outnumbered hunter therefore carries more weight. The hunt is thrown into serious jeopardy. A Predator, especially with mask on, also resembles a human and that lends itself to a degree of humanisation. We’re more likely to connect emotionally with a Pred in comparison to a Alien.

Nobody should connect emotionally to a predator. He's a glorified serial killer.
A Predator has two arms, two legs and a head. We see the creature healing itself in combat. That does lends itself to a degree of humanisation, as I originally stated. I stand by that point.


ChanceVance
Sep 24, 2018, 01:33:01 AM
Reply #51 on: Sep 24, 2018, 01:33:01 AM
Q
Connecting emotionally might be a stretch but there's definitely enough human traits of a Predator to cheer for them or be invested in what they do. Scar and Fugitive showed they know how to communicate through hand gestures, they've got a sense of honour to a degree and they're even capable of being a bit snide e.g 'Shit Happens'

Get the right story and execute it correctly, you'll be cheering for the Predator no problem. It's not that hard to cheer against humans anyway, we'll f**k each other over for a percentage.



Samhain13
Sep 24, 2018, 01:35:15 AM
Reply #52 on: Sep 24, 2018, 01:35:15 AM
Q
How many Predators usually go on a hunt at a time? One or two - three in the case of AvP. How many Aliens get killed during the course of a hunt? Usually many, because they’re a plague, with some becoming cannon fodder. There’s so many of them even after large populations have been massacred. The death of the outnumbered hunter therefore carries more weight. The hunt is thrown into serious jeopardy. A Predator, especially with mask on, also resembles a human and that lends itself to a degree of humanisation. We’re more likely to connect emotionally with a Pred in comparison to a Alien.

Nobody should connect emotionally to a predator. He's a glorified serial killer.
A Predator has two arms, two legs and a head. We see the creature healing itself in combat. That does lends itself to a degree of humanisation, as I originally stated. I stand by that point.

I kind of connected/related with Scarface from Predator: Concrete Jungle, it was like the classic story of revenge against bad people but with a predator as the protagonist, it was somehow a humanized history. That was probably the predator with most personality so far, he did have some twisted sense of humor.

« Last Edit: Sep 24, 2018, 01:40:16 AM by Samhain13 »

Dark Passenger
Sep 24, 2018, 01:54:24 AM
Reply #53 on: Sep 24, 2018, 01:54:24 AM
Q
Yep the movie went down hill for me when the Fugitive Predator was killed off (loved his scenes and him escaping the compound)
But nooo they just had do to the typical cheesy hollywood thing of "out with the old and in with the new"
They basically used him in the same way Jurassic Park 3 used it's T-Rex
"Well if you think this thing is a badass! looks at this bigger badass!! wooooh"
Hollywood needs to get it's shit together and start making good movies again.
and stop copying Marvel humor!! it works for them and them alone.


Huntsman
Sep 24, 2018, 02:16:03 AM
Reply #54 on: Sep 24, 2018, 02:16:03 AM
Q
Yep the movie went down hill for me when the Fugitive Predator was killed off (loved his scenes and him escaping the compound)
But nooo they just had do to the typical cheesy hollywood thing of "out with the old and in with the new"
I would've still had Upgrade hunting Fugitive, but Fugitive would've killed Upgrade at the very end. The theme would've been 'the pure Predator brings honour back to the clan'.


Dark Passenger
Sep 24, 2018, 02:23:49 AM
Reply #55 on: Sep 24, 2018, 02:23:49 AM
Q
@Huntsman

Yeah that would have been better, but still wouldn't have fixed the over the top Marvel like humor etc.
But still would have been an improvement and could have cleaned up the mess that is the third act.


Naginata
Sep 24, 2018, 05:51:05 AM
Reply #56 on: Sep 24, 2018, 05:51:05 AM
Q
I really liked the balance they struck with Fugitive. He can be funny or likable, but at no point is there any doubt that he's a serious threat. The 'thumbs up' scene (by itself worth the price of admission, IMO) is a good example; the humor comes from the fact that he's a psycho space monster rather than contradict it. I wish he was in the movie for longer, especially to kick Upgrade's wooden ass. I would've liked him to interact with the kid at least once.


Corporal Hicks
Sep 24, 2018, 09:34:27 AM
Reply #57 on: Sep 24, 2018, 09:34:27 AM
Q

To switch it up a bit, maybe we need a story where it's a hunting competition between 2 (normal) predators.

That's what all the comics and games have been doing so far and it was better than what we got in last 2 movies. Don't get why those film makers and writers need to keep adding this super predator crap over and over.

Best "bad predator" was the one from Predator: Bad Blood, way creepier and more baddass than the Berserkers or the Upgrade, the bastard was like the psychopathic serial killer of the predator race. The guy really enjoyed the killing like he entered a trance state when doing it lol and seemed to be even into cannibalism. His sick personality was much more threatening than the Upgrade's height.

Precisely. The Predator could still have maintained the upgrade angle but had less of a machine of another Predator and made it clear that it was a point of conflict between 2 differing clans. I really want to see some Predator vs. Predator realised properly but it's never drawn out or earned. It's just quickly brushed aside and not satisfying.


The Old One
Sep 24, 2018, 02:25:18 PM
Reply #58 on: Sep 24, 2018, 02:25:18 PM
Q
I don't believe the humor needed to be changed, everything else did to a degree.


huntin8-t0n
Sep 24, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
Reply #59 on: Sep 24, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
Q
About aliens and predators, I think it's a concept thing: there anren't many predators onscreen you can't make them mincemeat in every scene you got. Since Aliens xenomorphs are rather expandable.

That's why I like the portrayal a little more in AC than in earlier sequels. It's deadly on its own. It should be. As I see one alien should be able to take out a predator, no need to bring a horde.
True as well. I think the fight in AvP was spot on. The Predator used his weapons perfectly, like a true professional hunter would, and can’t be called ineffective or weak. He cut the Alien tail with the wristblades and wrapped it in a net, with a well timed shot. But the acid melts both the blades and the net, eventually resulting in an Alien victory. That’s the trade off here, folks. The Predator needs to PREPARE for the hunt. The Alien does not.

True, AvP was much closer than, let's say avpr. But for me it's the stalking game and not only battle of bodies, but battle of ..let's call it minds/instincts would be interesting. Alien's ruthless instincts and I think intellect is being dismissed. It's a killing machine, but so adaptive, it's scary.


 

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