Upgrade vs. Fugitive - wasted opportunity

[The Cruentus]

What's really bad is that Upgrade killed Fugitive quickly but later he had problems with the rest of humans. I think both Predators were weak compared to Jungle Hunter and City Hunter. He had no problem obliterating Dutch's squad and Dutch took him only by suprise. Instead of prolonged fight Upgrade should have killed every human quickly with no effort.

Jungle Hunter was not stronger, he was just a true hunter and killed the team one at a time, usually with his plasma caster. He is one of my favorites but he is no juggernaut and never took out a room full of armed military forced with just claws and mandibles like Fugitive did, which is why I do find the latter falters considerably when it came to fighting the Upgrade, granted he was probably stunned from being pull through a wall and was recovering from sedation, but it still felt anti-climatic.
While not a fan of Upgrade, he wasn't being stealthy like the Jungle Hunter and was engaging his targets in close quarters, instead of using the tactics JH uses.

& That- in itself is a wrong portrayal, if I'm to give my opinion.

All adult Aliens should be equal, and all should have the potential to kill a Predator as an individual.
Just look at how it moves in the recent Alien prequel, I just don't believe that one on one the Predator wouldn't be obilterated.

I don't think Predators should ever be portrayed heroically or humanized either,  that didn't do AVP any favors whatsoever.

I don't know about equal, I think older Aliens that have metamorphed a bit more, should be tougher but that doesn't mean the early stage of the adult Aliens should be weak either, I think they should be as strong if not stronger than Predators.

[Huntsman]

& That- in itself is a wrong portrayal, if I'm to give my opinion.

All adult Aliens should be equal, and all should have the potential to kill a Predator as an individual.
Just look at how it moves in the recent Alien prequel, I just don't believe that one on one the Predator wouldn't be obilterated.

In close combat, totally. But I don't think Aliens being taken down en-masse from a distance via sentry guns or plasmacasters disminishes their threat level at all. It's risk free from the hunter's perspective, like somebody gunning down a lion. The lion is still the king of the jungle. That's the type of combat I'm referring to here.

[The Old One]

I never thought about the Alien maturing having an effect on how durable it is- but it is a sensible conclusion.

(As long as they don't all become the James Cameron Adult Alien design.
I believe those changes in morphology are because of an effort to conceal themselves in a hive environment.)


@Huntsman

There's only the inference that Aliens are killed by the Sentry Guns.
I believe people imagine far more Aliens die because of what we don't see-
Than do in the reality of the fiction.

[huntin8-t0n]

I reall ylike the escape scene (most parts), but it didn't quite show if Fugitive was any different than a normal pred. Physically, anyways. Mentally, many aspects could change its actions, and I think he was impatient.

One question to everyone, here, it happened so quick, I can't remember. Did he take the control panel (khujad?)from McKenna when he offered it in the school? It's a big factor.

About aliens and predators, I think it's a concept thing: there anren't many predators onscreen you can't make them mincemeat in every scene you got. Since Aliens xenomorphs are rather expandable.

That's why I like the portrayal a little more in AC than in earlier sequels. It's deadly on its own. It should be. As I see one alien should be able to take out a predator, no need to bring a horde.

If ever an avp movie were made and it would be a lone alien against a lone predator, bringing out the potential in both creatures, that would be interesting.

[The Old One]

Indeed, similar scenario to the original Alien and Predator-
Only our team doesn't realise it's being picked off by two creatures rather than the one.

[huntin8-t0n]

Yea, something like that. In Alien the creature is also hunting the crew, picks them off one at a time. It's patient and intelligent. It resembles a predator (not the movie creature, but the type) maybe a bit more than the hunter in Predator.

A smart fight between the two would be extremely thrilling for me. Also, for once it'd be nice to give alien justice after avp:r

[Huntsman]

About aliens and predators, I think it's a concept thing: there anren't many predators onscreen you can't make them mincemeat in every scene you got. Since Aliens xenomorphs are rather expandable.

That's why I like the portrayal a little more in AC than in earlier sequels. It's deadly on its own. It should be. As I see one alien should be able to take out a predator, no need to bring a horde.

True as well. I think the fight in AvP was spot on. The Predator used his weapons perfectly, like a true professional hunter would, and can't be called ineffective or weak. He cut the Alien tail with the wristblades and wrapped it in a net, with a well timed shot. But the acid melts both the blades and the net, eventually resulting in an Alien victory. That's the trade off here, folks. The Predator needs to PREPARE for the hunt. The Alien does not.

[The Old One]

The fight in AVP turned into a wrestling match, it was far from perfect.
Regardless I see your point.

[The Cruentus]

I would agree but Celtic technically won, it was his hubris and overconfidence (the very slow walk and unsheathing of dagger) that allowed Grid the time to break free and overpower him. I didn't really like the wrestling aspect of the fight either, it could have been done better but there was some good shots in there, such as the alien's awareness of its own blood and using its severed tail as a weapon.

[ep40]

Jungle Hunter was not stronger, he was just a true hunter and killed the team one at a time, usually with his plasma caster. He is one of my favorites but he is no juggernaut and never took out a room full of armed military forced with just claws and mandibles like Fugitive did, which is why I do find the latter falters considerably when it came to fighting the Upgrade, granted he was probably stunned from being pull through a wall and was recovering from sedation, but it still felt anti-climatic.
While not a fan of Upgrade, he wasn't being stealthy like the Jungle Hunter and was engaging his targets in close quarters, instead of using the tactics JH uses.

More or less that's what I wanted to point out, JH strenght came not from physicality but from it's intelligence, from using tactics and hunting one on one. While Fugitive wasn't that bad up to the point before death, Upgrade would have been more succesful if he suprised his enemies, possibly leaving McKenna to be last man standing. But he decided to use raw strength and it partially contributed to his death.

[Huntsman]

I would agree but Celtic technically won, it was his hubris and overconfidence (the very slow walk and unsheathing of dagger) that allowed Grid the time to break free and overpower him. I didn't really like the wrestling aspect of the fight either, it could have been done better but there was some good shots in there, such as the alien's awareness of its own blood and using its severed tail as a weapon.

Indeed. I can appreciate the balance of the fight in terms of emphasising each creature's strengths.

[Jigsaw85]

How many Predators usually go on a hunt at a time? One or two - three in the case of AvP. How many Aliens get killed during the course of a hunt? Usually many, because they're a plague, with some becoming cannon fodder. There's so many of them even after large populations have been massacred. The death of the outnumbered hunter therefore carries more weight. The hunt is thrown into serious jeopardy. A Predator, especially with mask on, also resembles a human and that lends itself to a degree of humanisation. We're more likely to connect emotionally with a Pred in comparison to a Alien.

Nobody should connect emotionally to a predator. He's a glorified serial killer.

[The Old One]

I agree.

[Wysps]

How many Predators usually go on a hunt at a time? One or two - three in the case of AvP. How many Aliens get killed during the course of a hunt? Usually many, because they're a plague, with some becoming cannon fodder. There's so many of them even after large populations have been massacred. The death of the outnumbered hunter therefore carries more weight. The hunt is thrown into serious jeopardy. A Predator, especially with mask on, also resembles a human and that lends itself to a degree of humanisation. We're more likely to connect emotionally with a Pred in comparison to a Alien.

Nobody should connect emotionally to a predator. He's a glorified serial killer.

I think that's overstated. Predators hunt humans because they view us as animals, just as we hunt animals regardless of how intelligent or sapient/sentient they are because they are not human. Predator on Predator predation? That would be something different. There's a psychiatric profile that goes with serial killers - antisocial personality disorder, maybe some affective disorders or disorders with positive traits, etc. Hunting another species wouldn't qualify. If there's torture involved just for the sake of torture and an emotional response to that, then we can start talking about that profile. But hunting? I don't think so.

To add, the Prequel novel does a fantastic job in getting that viewpoint across. I'd recommend it honestly just for how fascinating the Predator POV is.

[Stitch]

I think maybe what we need, instead of a 'standard vs super' setup, is a predator vs predator match-up that's more even.
We've only seen single predators hunting humans, or predators vs super predators. To switch it up a bit, maybe we need a story where it's a hunting competition between 2 (normal) predators. Kinda like the first movie but the humans involved don't realise it's not just a single killer.
It would mean the kills would be more interesting, since the predators would have to one-up each other, but the human characters could be kept off guard.