Upgrade vs. Fugitive - wasted opportunity

[The Cruentus]

Really? How so?

-Aliens being run over
-Aliens being shot to bits in seemingly large numbers
-Aliens being mowed down by the sentries in a tunnel till the ammo runs out

Or at least suggested. Which in turn influenced later comics and films.

My main criticism of Aliens is the shallowness of the characters, even considered how well executed the film is. I don't hate the film by any means, but I do think many are blinded by the technical finesse that it displays, much like the other Cameron film of recent years

All of those could easily happen to big chap, he was never invincible, he just wasn't in a situation where he could be safely killed.

A Tiger is an unstoppable monster to someone without a large calibre gun,  but have some military trained folks with decent guns and the Tiger is killable but no less a threat given the chance. Same goes with the Alien.

I agree that the characters are quicky and pretty much known for that, but back then it might not been such a cliche to have character archtypes.

[skull-splitter]

Way to steamroll over the argument.

[Johnny Handsome]

They should have had Fugitive try to outsmart Upgrade...perhaps even have the two of them play a bit of cat and mouse in the forest, with Fugitive kinda in Dutch's position in the first film (outmatched but using his cunning)

I feel like the fight we got was uninspired

Well, i love me some good monster fight, but if they would have done it your way it would have missed the point entirely.

The whole scene was just a setup to show how meaningless und useless a normal Predator is supposed to be in comparison to the assasin. We don't get much of a fight because, well, it's no opponent.

So in that regard, it perfect to the point, it's fast and brutal. Besides that, i don't think fugitive himself ever believed he could win, he just wouldn't go without a bang.

[Nathsp]

The problem is that i do think he can win, i think a regular predator with plasmacaster, jumping and using wepons can defeat the big stupid thing

[Johnny Handsome]

The problem is that i do think he can win, i think a regular predator with plasmacaster, jumping and using wepons can defeat the big stupid thing

You're talking fanservice here, yes, it would have been nice as i love the classic ones more. They didn't go for that though, they went for the story. And that scene was supposed to bring across the point that the assassin is the best one, and they did that perfectly fine.

You wanna introduce the new Predator as being the stronger one... by outsmarting and defeating it? Uhh no. It wasn't a wasted opportunity as it was never supposed to be eye candy or a glorious moment for both creatures to fight to the death in an all epic fight... the big one should crush the small one, done that, next, and him having no effort was the point.

[Nathsp]

But thats my point. I dont think he is the best one, not for fan service, its just bigger,  i dont think the design is good to make me think that, most of the time he kills with a hook,  as bad as avpr is, wolf weaponry is huge and make me think wolf can defeat upgrade, just weapons, tons of weapons, of course if he goes face to face he would bite the dust, but if you dont let him aproach, its just a bigger target, fire with all the plsma, mines, blades you have, aint no natural armour that can hold plasma for long..

[BigDaddyJohn]

The problem is that i do think he can win, i think a regular predator with plasmacaster, jumping and using wepons can defeat the big stupid thing

You're talking fanservice here, yes, it would have been nice as i love the classic ones more. They didn't go for that though, they went for the story. And that scene was supposed to bring across the point that the assassin is the best one, and they did that perfectly fine.

You wanna introduce the new Predator as being the stronger one... by outsmarting and defeating it? Uhh no. It wasn't a wasted opportunity as it was never supposed to be eye candy or a glorious moment for both creatures to fight to the death in an all epic fight... the big one should crush the small one, done that, next, and him having no effort was the point.

You're talking to someone who seems often blinded by his emotions and his fan side though.

[skull-splitter]

Also: just making him bigger wasn't good enough, it had to slaughter the more classic built one.

It's one of the more hamfisted things in this film along with the DNA non sense.

[BigDaddyJohn]

Again, it's the fan side speaking here, not the story-coherence side.

[The Cruentus]

I don't mind that Fugitive bit it but I would have preferred a better fight.

[The Old One]

It doesn't matter much, when there was no story coherence to begin with.

[Nathsp]

Again, it's the fan side speaking here, not the story-coherence side.

Its no fan side, im being objective, i do think a pred with some good weapons can kill the upgrade, its not fan side, a long / medium range weapons,  like plasma guns, plus some evasion..

[Gilfryd]

And I can't recall a single movie that used the "New awesome one kills the stodgy old one" technique that actually made me think the new one was cool or scary.  It always comes off as lame and insecure, that the filmmaker can't think of any other way to do it than to try and somehow one-up previous directors.   Does anyone anywhere prefer the Spinosaur to the T-Rex, the Newborn to the Queen, or the Berserker or Upgrade to the original Predator?  I highly doubt it.

Yeah exactly!

Although I have to say if any of those come close to working it's the Newborn killing its birth mother right out of the womb and choosing Ripley instead, it's very creepy and I certainly prefer the movie Newborn over the original script's giant flying bloodsucking monster thing.

[Wysps]

I don't mind that Fugitive bit it but I would have preferred a better fight.

Same. I can see why the Fugitive eating it at the hands of the Upgrade was necessary (to show how "strong/advanced" he was), but the Fugitive definitely had more to add than what we got. If they could have at least let him narrowly escape and get owned later in the movie... give him some more screen time.

[The Cruentus]

And I can't recall a single movie that used the "New awesome one kills the stodgy old one" technique that actually made me think the new one was cool or scary.  It always comes off as lame and insecure, that the filmmaker can't think of any other way to do it than to try and somehow one-up previous directors.   Does anyone anywhere prefer the Spinosaur to the T-Rex, the Newborn to the Queen, or the Berserker or Upgrade to the original Predator?  I highly doubt it.

Yeah exactly!

Although I have to say if any of those come close to working it's the Newborn killing its birth mother right out of the womb and choosing Ripley instead, it's very creepy and I certainly prefer the movie Newborn over the original script's giant flying bloodsucking monster thing.

Berserker one is justified though, it never beats the classic by being better, the fight is one sided because classic was in a poor state and Mr.Black just ups and begins firing his plasma caster so he is a cheater to boot.