Topic: The future of the Alien vs. Predator franchise

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• Alien and Predator @ New York Toy Fair 2019

[Do you think they should make another AVP film?]

Do you think they should make another AVP film?

Yes, continuing from the previous films.

Yes, but disregarding the previous AVP films (New continuity)

No, they should be kept seperate.

No, the  AVP movies messed up the franchise.

Not sure/maybe.

[Samhain13]

I think one comic did sort of have "evil" predators, the three world war one I think. The Predators there had bred Xenomorphs to be their weapons.

Yeah the "Killers"... appeared on Prey to the Heavens and Three World War. They used aliens as attack dogs. Didn't like them that much, the comic was way too over the top, stopped taking it seriously when the predator wannabe girl defeated a predator in close combat.

[Corporal Hicks]

It helped she lived with and trained with Predator's for a year. Plus took part in plenty of hunts. And had previously helped capture a Queen. Machiko was no slouch. Of the comics issues, that wasn't one for me.

[SM]

She beat up a Predator in AvP: War.

[The Cruentus]

Machiko is probably the closest thing to a main protagonist that the franchise has as she has been in what, three or four books?
The first book would make a good adaption for a movie since the predators in that book were right bastards, they went after a family, which included a child. So other than broken tusk, the Predators there would not be "humanized" like they were in AVP. The only issue would be the team up but given its out of survival and a repayment of debt, it might work but personally I think there is been too much already even if its only happened twice onscreen.

While I agree Predators could be elevated to fit with the Alienverse, it could be (and more likely given the current direction) the otherway around too, the Aliens being either dumbed down or made over the top, actually it has already been done really speaking. The Alien series as been getting more crazier with each film, less attention spent on plausibility or science. Covenant took the cake with its insane rapid life-cycle (which is worse that AVP's and that is saying something). such a complex creature should not be implanted or gestate that fast, even the first film was pushing boundaries with that but at least it wasn't seconds or minutes.

If they make a new AVP film then I don't know which is more likely, more over the top aliens or Predators brought to an alien level tone.
Given the way recent aliens films have gone, as well as the new predator movie involving  genetic alteration, I am feeling a tad cynical about what kind of movie the next AVP would be.
But that said, I still would like to see another AVP movie, as a crossover it might be expected to be a little crazy but as long it renews faith in the franchise and can prove to studios that it is worth investing in, it might be worth it.

She beat up a Predator in AvP: War.

I remember her getting the better of one but lost due to another Predator grabbing her leg or something. I remember some cheating happened anyway.

[SM]

Yeah one of the other Predators grabbed her leg.  She was capable of handing out an ass-whupping but saw the writing on the wall in that fight and tanked.

[SiL]

Grabbed by Shorty, the Predator antagonist in AvP: War. Kicked him in the face but threw the fight to not, y'know, die.

[The Cruentus]

I thought she was fighting Shorty. I will have to take a look at that again.

[SiL]

Ah, true: she was fighting Shorty, but grabbed by one of his buddies. She threw the fight with Shorty to not get killed.

[Samhain13]

It helped she lived with and trained with Predator's for a year. Plus took part in plenty of hunts. And had previously helped capture a Queen. Machiko was no slouch. Of the comics issues, that wasn't one for me.

She decapitated a predator with one swing from a knife during a fight. Yeah... I will never accept a human doing that so easily. The difference in streng, size, speed between humans and predators are too big, even more next to a human female. This isn't fantasy fiction, where characters call just pull magical power ups, science fiction isn't suppose to be so unrealistic. You are more of an alien fan but didn't you had a problem with a human killing several aliens in close combat? What's next? Making her punch aliens to death?


That's one of the biggest problem with the AVP comics(some of the separate comics as well), making the creatures look weak and pathetic next to humans, an average predator should be physically able to literally kill Machiko with a punch.

Then there is the whole "yautja" honor thing and making aliens die by the hundreds, the first avp comic was actually fine but War went full fanboy fanfiction, as well as Deadliest of the Species, Three World War and Xenogenesis. Crazy stuff in those comics. Eternal's story might be a little too much but it had outnumbered aliens that were standing up to humans and predators, plus even with the hightech armor/weapons humans didn't overpowered the creatures. It respected the creatures well.  Thrill of the Hunt and Civilized Beasts were fine, even with a guy using predator equipment it was handled quite well, the only ones that tried to fight predator on close combat were super droids and they got their asses kicked.

Machiko, overhumanized predators, cannon fodder aliens, alien/predator-human teamups, crazy new hybrid creatures, human overpowering the creatures easily, those are the things that shouldn't be repeated, either in a possible next movie or more EU material. At least with the bad comics we really know what they really shouldn't do next time.

In regards to where previous avp movies went wrong and should have went: make it in space, on the future, respect the creatures's streng and lore, make the designs like the originals, no human teaming up with the creatures, make human characters that we believe can fight back and we can care about, like Dutch's team, Ripley and the marines. If they followed the things most fans wanted since the beggining even the average viewer would have liked the movies more.

[Corporal Hicks]

It helped she lived with and trained with Predator's for a year. Plus took part in plenty of hunts. And had previously helped capture a Queen. Machiko was no slouch. Of the comics issues, that wasn't one for me.

She decapitated a predator with one swing from a knife during a fight. Yeah... I will never accept a human doing that so easily. The difference in streng, size, speed between humans and predators are too big, even more next to a human female. This isn't fantasy fiction, where characters call just pull magical power ups, science fiction isn't suppose to be so unrealistic. You are more of an alien fan but didn't you had a problem with a human killing several aliens in close combat? What's next? Making her punch aliens to death?

Difference being that Predators don't bleed acid for blood, nor have natural body armour. Predators are consistently taken down in close quarters and with physical impacts.  Big log on the noggin, stabbed with a edged weapon, 2 decapitations in Predators - one by a human - stabbed in the chest in AvP.

This character in particular is shown to be skilled and physically capable in previous issues and it's not like there's no precedence for Predator's to have their heads cut off or be killed in close combat. Even if it's science fiction, there's still elements of fiction involved.

[Samhain13]

Difference being that Predators don't bleed acid for blood, nor have nature body

Didn't stop her from killing aliens with wristblades.

Predator's are consistently taken down in close quarters and with physical impacts. 

She blocked and dodged predator punches and threw it around in War. She grabbed the predator's arm and threw the whole predator away, how much does a predator weight again? More than she could ever make it move I'm sure. Not even Dutch could do the things she is doing, and the difference between Dutch and Machiko in streng is not as big as the difference between Dutch and a Predator. It's like having a teenager girl fighting Dutch and not only being able to keep up but throwing a 200+ pounds man around. It's laughable. Dutch's punch just stunned the predator for a brief moment, and Machiko almost knocked the predator out. The predator was being hurt by her kicks. 

Big log on the noggin,

That would have killed any human, and he was still alive.

stabbed with a edged weapon, 2 decapitations in Predators - one by a human - stabbed in the chest in AvP.

By non-human weapons that could also cut an alien apart. Pussyface was injured, weak and tired, Classic was killed by another predator, Berserk was caught off guard after being shot with a sniper and Royce hitted it several times, Chopper and Scar were stabbed by aliens. Not the same thing at all.

This character in particular is shown to be skilled

Its not just about skill, she would need super human streng to do what she did, and this is not dragon ball.

and physically capable in previous issues

Previous issues also had those issues.

it's not like there's no precedence for Predator's to have their heads cut off

Yeah... I might get a little off topic here, but decapitating someone is not that easy, not with just one clean strike specially with a being with a thicker skin and bone like a predator. Samurai used to train a lot to get it done in one blow and they still failed sometimes, its a combination of streng, speed and not having the target in motion. Samurai only did that feat in executions with someone unimobile for a reason: because it's not easy to do that in fight (Royce did with a Berserk on it's knees). And that is with a sharp samurai blade, if it's a random knife or even a machete, it will take several strikes to completely take the head completely off, and that's with human skin. Most men don't have either the streng, speed and skill to do it with one strike.



To do what she did here, she would need to be stronger and faster than any human that ever lived.

or be killed in close combat.

Context matters, in the movies the predators were injured + caught off guard, they were never so overpowered by someone, specially someone with a even bigger difference in streng.

Even if it's science fiction, there's still elements of fiction involved.

So it seems.

[Corporal Hicks]

Difference being that Predators don't bleed acid for blood, nor have nature body

Didn't stop her from killing aliens with wristblades.

Fair point. Doesn't really bother me though. She's been training with the Predators, I can buy she's learnt their techniques and skills. If she can take down an Alien in close combat, sure, I don't mind her also taking a Predator in close combat.

She blocked and dodged predator punches and threw it around in War. She grabbed the predator's arm and threw the whole predator away, how much does a predator weight again? More than she could ever make it move I'm sure. Not even Dutch could do the things she is doing, and the difference between Dutch and Machiko in streng is not as big as the difference between Dutch and a Predator. It's like having a teenager girl fighting Dutch and not only being able to keep up but throwing a 200+ pounds man around. It's laughable. Dutch's punch just stunned the predator for a brief moment, and Machiko almost knocked the predator out. The predator was being hurt by her kicks. 

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on fighting styles but Dutch wasn't exactly using some sort of special techniques. And strength doesn't always equate to winning. Smaller, faster, more skilled fighters are capable of still damaging bigger and stronger opponents.

By non-human weapons that could also cut an alien apart. Pussyface was injured, weak and tired, Classic was killed by another predator, Berserk was caught off guard after being shot with a sniper and Royce hitted it several times, Chopper and Scar were stabbed by aliens. Not the same thing at all.

Not the exact same, no, but still similar. They're physical injuries. And besides, Machiko is decked out in her Predator kit. The blade could have been Predator too.

Yeah... I might get a little off topic here, but decapitating someone is not that easy, not with just one clean strike specially with a being with a thicker skin and bone like a predator. Samurai used to train a lot to get it done in one blow and they still failed sometimes, its a combination of streng, speed and not having the target in motion. Samurai only did that feat in executions with someone unimobile for a reason: because it's not easy to do that in fight (Royce did with a Berserk on it's knees). And that is with a sharp samurai blade, if it's a random knife or even a machete, it will take several strikes to completely take the head completely off, and that's with human skin. Most men don't have either the streng, speed and skill to do it with one strike.



To do what she did here, she would need to be stronger and faster than any human that ever lived.

or be killed in close combat.

Context matters, in the movies the predators were injured + caught off guard, they were never so overpowered by someone, specially someone with a even bigger difference in streng.

Even if it's science fiction, there's still elements of fiction involved.

So it seems.

I get it, you don't like a woman decapitated a Predator.  But at the end of the day it is science fiction. Fiction is right there in the title. I'm fairly sure Ripley would not have been able to hold onto that ladder in Aliens. But it is fiction. There's a suspension of disbelief involved. Personally, I give comics even more leeway. It's just not something in the lore that irks me. If it does you, fine.

[Wysps]

It helped she lived with and trained with Predator's for a year. Plus took part in plenty of hunts. And had previously helped capture a Queen. Machiko was no slouch. Of the comics issues, that wasn't one for me.

She decapitated a predator with one swing from a knife during a fight. Yeah... I will never accept a human doing that so easily. The difference in streng, size, speed between humans and predators are too big, even more next to a human female. This isn't fantasy fiction, where characters call just pull magical power ups, science fiction isn't suppose to be so unrealistic. You are more of an alien fan but didn't you had a problem with a human killing several aliens in close combat? What's next? Making her punch aliens to death?

Difference being that Predators don't bleed acid for blood, nor have natural body armour. Predators are consistently taken down in close quarters and with physical impacts.  Big log on the noggin, stabbed with a edged weapon, 2 decapitations in Predators - one by a human - stabbed in the chest in AvP.

This character in particular is shown to be skilled and physically capable in previous issues and it's not like there's no precedence for Predator's to have their heads cut off or be killed in close combat. Even if it's science fiction, there's still elements of fiction involved.

In addition, she spent extended periods of time living with and fighting alongside the Predators - the same ones she had to fight (i.e. Shorty).  I'm sure during that period she was able to learn the best methods to take down a Predator while compensating for her stature.  Not that it's similar by any means, but in the hospital we have to do take downs for people over three times my size.  I'd imagine if an actual Predator was teaching you how to do a take down, you'd be able to learn the best way of doing it.  Doesn't seem completely unreasonable.

And Deadliest of Species is as trippy as all get out, but I still can't help but loving it    That is my cross to bear, I suppose.

[D88M]

A new, good AVP movie would do great at the box office if the marketing was well made (that pretty much is the only reason a movie does well or not) we need a new standalone story based on nothing but the original Alien/Predator movies in every aspect, 150/200 millon of dollars for budget, and it has to be adult, dark, serious, really violent, and suspensful. The second AVP game is the best thing we got with the idea, maybe the only good thing.

Is not that hard, the concept sells itself, we just need competent people at the helm.

Also, i cannot bare that Black thought of making the AVP movies canon, what the hell was he thinking? Is the worst idea since making a AVP movie in a small rural town in modern time.

Marketing is going to have to spend a lot trying to convince people to give it a chance though since the previous AVP movies likely disillusioned some.

I don't know if the budget needs to be that high though, as I feel the movie would end up being too cgi ridden. While a low budget can cause problems such as settings and the recycling of those resurrection suits, sometimes it makes the film crew more creative and find better ways to do things that they normally wouldn't think about.

Black might have only been talking about the Predator movies, he doesn't actually say AVP from what I heard in the video. Other than he doesn't think its dead of course.
[/quote]

You are right about that, but i doubt general audiences will even care or remember, but is a good point, and Prometheus/Covenant did not made a lot at the box office either.

Maybe a middle-budget would be better, but i think is obvious that if someone makes a AVP movie should do it as old school as possible, animatronics and suits, going for little to almost none CGI, at least is how i would do it if given the chance, and for that a high budget is needed.

Black is putting stuff like the shurikens and Lex spear in the movie, and if i am remembering right he is gonna reference all previous Predator movies and the AVP movies, that is what has my expectations for this movie really low, because is an awful idea to turn the AVP movies into canon.

[The Old One]

I don't like the concept of Machiko or it's execution, or the Predators containing and exploiting Aliens like farm animals, or Ellen Ripley being able to hold onto the ladder at the end of Aliens 1986.

Prometheus made plenty at the box office though.

& Shane Black using the Shuriken design that appeared in AVP, doesn't make AVP 2004 anymore canon than Predator Concrete Jungle.