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Author Topic: Why did the movies fail?  (Read 7243 times)

426Buddy
May 10, 2018, 03:19:42 AM
Reply #15 on: May 10, 2018, 03:19:42 AM
Q
AvPR is by far the worst film in either franchise.

Only way it could get worse is if asylum or uwe boll makes AvP3

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 03:21:46 AM by 426Buddy »

Huggs
May 10, 2018, 03:24:31 AM
Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 03:24:31 AM
Q
Further undermined.  :o

1. Just to be certain, the assembly cut is the directors cut on the Blu-ray correct? The one with the additional footage and the cow burster is the version I am referring to.

2. Does this make me the Underminer? Because I'd love to be a bad dude in an incredibles movie. Where's my hardhat? I need to go practice my Ratzenberger.  :D

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 03:29:28 AM by Huggs »

SM
May 10, 2018, 03:37:44 AM
Reply #17 on: May 10, 2018, 03:37:44 AM
Q
1. Not a directors cut, but yes.
2. Because neither Predator 2 nor Alien 3 are well crafted or well written or are heavy on character development.  I don't recall any character development in Predator 2.


whiterabbit
May 10, 2018, 04:07:36 AM
Reply #18 on: May 10, 2018, 04:07:36 AM
Q
Alien3 is one of the best written 3rd movies in the history of space horror franchises. What the heck man.  :-X


SM
May 10, 2018, 04:23:22 AM
Reply #19 on: May 10, 2018, 04:23:22 AM
Q
Only if you're talking about the vastly superior Eric Red version.


Scorpio
May 10, 2018, 06:07:18 AM
Reply #20 on: May 10, 2018, 06:07:18 AM
Q
If you want to compare the scripts, but as a movie Alien 3 works (even if you want to call it 'flawed').

I am not a fan of the Eric Red script, however, or any of the alt Alien 3 scripts.  Not having Ripley is a big mistake, would have failed hard.  There are exceptions to that rule, but you don't get rid of your star if they're still in their prime.

When that happened, you have Predator 2, which is a good movie, but failed financially.


SiL
May 10, 2018, 06:19:48 AM
Reply #21 on: May 10, 2018, 06:19:48 AM
Q
Predator 2 was like Aliens for the predator universe. It was loud, scary and in your face. Gunfights, chases, showdowns, etc.
Which is what Predator had to begin with. Aliens took the outline of Alien and made it a very different film; new genre, new tone, but still intense and part of the universe of the first.

Predator 2 took the outline of the first movie and ... set it in a city. Then ripped off a scene from Aliens almost shot-for-shot. Poorly.


OpenMaw
May 10, 2018, 07:31:45 AM
Reply #22 on: May 10, 2018, 07:31:45 AM
Q
Alien3 is one of the best written 3rd movies in the history of space horror franchises. What the heck man.  :-X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_vqIXhqBE4


If you want to compare the scripts, but as a movie Alien 3 works (even if you want to call it 'flawed').
[/spoiler]

Lot's of bad movies work. That doesn't make them good, great, or incredible. The strongest aspects of Alien 3 are Fincher's direction and visual touch, Weaver, Dutton, and Dance's acting, and the music. The script is a hot mess and the final film echoes that mess.


I am not a fan of the Eric Red script, however, or any of the alt Alien 3 scripts.  Not having Ripley is a big mistake, would have failed hard.  There are exceptions to that rule, but you don't get rid of your star if they're still in their prime.

I don't agree with that at all. Weaver's only major contribution to the third film is wanting Ripley to die. The rest of her mandates and authoritarian attitude caused a lot of ripples for the franchise. Gibson's script had a lot of potential and could have been just as good as Aliens with a little more finese.

When that happened, you have Predator 2, which is a good movie, but failed financially.

Predator 2 is a fine movie. It's fun. But it's not great, by any stretch. One of my biggest beefs with it is the repetitive feeling it gets. Predator carves up, what, four groups of people? The big problem there is that the film robs itself all the mystery and starts off at 11. Again, I think a better edit of the film would keep the Predator hidden until Harrigan see's the "mirage" on the roof. I'd also cut the slaughter in the pent house, and have the crew discover the slaughter aftermath.

Both of the AVP films suck for different reasons. Their characters are just... Awful. the pacing in both films is terrible. AVP has no balls. AVPR has no light. The Aliens and Predators are both awfully portrayed. The Predators in the first AVP get ganked way too rapidly, and the aliens in AVPR are reduced to whiney little bitches.


Scorpio
May 10, 2018, 09:33:36 AM
Reply #23 on: May 10, 2018, 09:33:36 AM
Q
You couldn't have Alien 3 without Weaver.  That's like having Return of the Jedi without Mark Hamill.  Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome without Mel Gibson (I know he wasn't in the 4th one but he was way past his prime by then).  Like having Terminator 3 without Arnold.

You don't get rid of your star that sells the movie.  That's why the execs wouldn't make it without Weaver.

So Eric Red's and William Gibson's scripts both fail.  No Weaver, no Alien.

(Of course you have to remember this was 1991 when Weaver was still in her prime, that's not the case anymore so we have had Alien movies without Weaver)


Vermillion
May 10, 2018, 09:46:28 AM
Reply #24 on: May 10, 2018, 09:46:28 AM
Q
If you want to compare the scripts, but as a movie Alien 3 works (even if you want to call it 'flawed').

I am not a fan of the Eric Red script, however, or any of the alt Alien 3 scripts.  Not having Ripley is a big mistake, would have failed hard.  There are exceptions to that rule, but you don't get rid of your star if they're still in their prime.

When that happened, you have Predator 2, which is a good movie, but failed financially.

You’re telling me Alien 3 succeeded?


OpenMaw
May 10, 2018, 09:53:11 AM
Reply #25 on: May 10, 2018, 09:53:11 AM
Q
So Eric Red's and William Gibson's scripts both fail.  No Weaver, no Alien.

Wrong. Weaver was a great actress and she did amazing work, but the series is so much more than her and her character and it would have just fine without her.



The Cruentus
May 10, 2018, 09:59:12 AM
Reply #27 on: May 10, 2018, 09:59:12 AM
Q
So Eric Red's and William Gibson's scripts both fail.  No Weaver, no Alien.

Wrong. Weaver was a great actress and she did amazing work, but the series is so much more than her and her character and it would have just fine without her.

I agree with this, I love Signourney, she is a brilliant actress but the series was about the Alien and an assemble of characters dealing with it. It was never just about Ripley. This is one of the reasons I like Alien 3, because for all its flaws it does wrap Ripley's story up.


Local Trouble
May 10, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
Reply #28 on: May 10, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
Q
And one of the reasons Alien Resurrection was so awful.


Scorpio
May 10, 2018, 10:03:56 AM
Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 10:03:56 AM
Q


You’re telling me Alien 3 succeeded?

It succeeded financially, not critically, but its reputation has grown over the years.



Wrong. Weaver was a great actress and she did amazing work, but the series is so much more than her and her character and it would have just fine without her.

It would have been Predator 2.

Gibson's script would have been amazing.

Like his script for Johnny Mnemonic, and such an amazing movie that was.  :P


 

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