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Poll

Was the opening David / Weyland scene in AC a waste of valuable film runtime?

Yes (please explain which part of movie could be better explained instead)
13 (22.4%)
No
45 (77.6%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Was the opening David / Weyland scene in AC a wast...  (Read 4110 times)

OpenMaw
May 04, 2018, 01:00:56 AM
Reply #30 on: May 04, 2018, 01:00:56 AM
Q
It it were as cut and dry as "David is programmed to serve" then the scene makes no sense. David shouldn't even be able to hesitate.


SM
May 04, 2018, 01:11:16 AM
Reply #31 on: May 04, 2018, 01:11:16 AM
Q
He knows he has to obey to avoid being switched off.


OpenMaw
May 04, 2018, 01:26:58 AM
Reply #32 on: May 04, 2018, 01:26:58 AM
Q
He knows he has to obey to avoid being switched off.

I get that SM. I'm saying he hesitated. If it was a matter of programming, hesitation doesn't even come into it.

Weyland has words with him over it. Weyland shouldn't stand for that kind of behavior for even a second, because that is not how that character had been depicted up to that point. He's one of the biggest control freaks ever.

I'm saying it would have been far more interesting to me had they gone with something more philosophical between the two that put David on the path he took. Similar to how Laurence of Arabia influenced and inspired David.  The scene started that way, but then it took a left turn into something that just didn't jive with how this relationship had been portrayed in Prometheus. David was closer to Weyland than his own daughter seemed to be, in Prometheus.


SM
May 04, 2018, 01:44:47 AM
Reply #33 on: May 04, 2018, 01:44:47 AM
Q
Quote
If it was a matter of programming, hesitation doesn't even come into it.

I agree.  But I also believe Weyland's ego would dictate that he would rather let David know what his place is, rather than it being programmed.  Like 'you will obey because I made you and I am in charge; not because you don't have a choice'.

I think David was closer because Vickers was going to replace him after he died, and despite David being subservient, David embodied Weyland's original tilt at immortality.


426Buddy
May 04, 2018, 02:25:33 AM
Reply #34 on: May 04, 2018, 02:25:33 AM
Q
Just having to serve Weyland wouldn't mean he wants to or would enjoy it. Hes still an AI, but he was still developed and programed by humans.

It would seem a little wreckless to have nothing to stop your android from murdering you in your sleep.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 02:27:45 AM by 426Buddy »

SM
May 04, 2018, 02:37:54 AM
Reply #35 on: May 04, 2018, 02:37:54 AM
Q
David valued his own existence.  Murdering Weyland would bring that to a swift end.



bb-15
May 05, 2018, 05:21:11 AM
Reply #37 on: May 05, 2018, 05:21:11 AM
Q
If it was a matter of programming, hesitation doesn't even come into it.

Weyland has words with him over it. Weyland shouldn't stand for that kind of behavior for even a second, because that is not how that character had been depicted up to that point. He's one of the biggest control freaks ever.

That’s not the way I see the Weyland character.
Yes, he likes to be in control (and overall he is in control) but he tolerates opposition from his associates, especially in a parent / child relationship.

* For instance Weyland’s comments to Vickers. From “Prometheus”;

Quote
Peter Weyland: After all your vigorous attempts to stop me from coming here, I’m surprised to see you...

Peter Weyland: Very negative way of looking at things.

- For Weyland, David is like a son.

Quote
There’s a man sitting with you today, his name is David. He is the closest thing to a son I will ever had,
(Prometheus)

* Weyland doesn’t want a mindless slave as a “son”.
He wants a clever, creative android who will be useful.
Such as with finding the living Engineer on LV-223.

* Weyland was never in any direct danger from David.
Even when David hints that he might want Weyland to be dead, he admits that with Weyland’s programming, he is not free to do what he wants.

Quote
Elizabeth Shaw: What happens when Weyland’s not around to program you anymore?
David: I suppose I’d be free...
David: ‘Want’; not a concept I’m familiar with. That being said, doesn’t everyone want their parents dead?
(Prometheus)

I'm saying it would have been far more interesting to me had they gone with something more philosophical between the two...

With all the androids in film or the betrayer characters in science fiction movies, I can’t find one that is more interesting than David, maybe just as good but not better; (that includes Ash, Data, C3PO, the androids in Spielberg’s “AI”, with human betrayers, Cypher or with just a computer, HAL).
* The opening sequence in “Covenant” has a giant statue of the Biblical David.
- Weyland obviously has pretensions to be godlike.
- David chooses to play Wagner’s  “Entry of the Gods into Valhalla”.
- David is making a statement about himself which is just as pretentious as his creator.

That’s an interesting conflict.
Who will be the master in the long run?
The wealthy, controlling human? 
Or the clever android?

* In human terms David is a sociopath. But he plays the role of obedient helper very well,
biding his time for years until he has the opportunity to strike.
- Yet, David at the same time seems to have really cared for Shaw, even though he tortured and killed her.
It’s a deranged mind similar to Norman Bates in Psycho.

Interesting stuff imo.

;)

« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 05:29:57 AM by bb-15 »

The Cruentus
May 05, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Reply #38 on: May 05, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Q
I actually liked the intro scene to Covenant, it was interesting but I do wonder that if this scene wasn't in, would the pacing of the film be better?

I am curious why the film had to be on the 2 hr mark, films these days can go right up to three hours with no issue. I see no reason the film couldn't be longer to even the pacing out.

I also think David was closer to Weyland than Vickers, its been awhile since I have seen Promethues but was Vickers jealous at all by David? I know Peter was trusting David more with the tasks he was doing and David did cut Vickers off, perhaps on Weyland's orders.


bb-15
May 05, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
Reply #39 on: May 05, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
Q
I am curious why the film had to be on the 2 hr mark, films these days can go right up to three hours with no issue. I see no reason the film couldn't be longer to even the pacing out.

Ridley Scott likes his science fiction movies to be about two hours long. Why? I think because they are slower paced and he doesn’t want the audience to get bored.
While some fast paced action movies have been very successful at the box office going with an almost three hour run time, going over two hours can result in a box office problem for some slower paced films.
The recent Blade Runner 2049 is an example of that. A good 2 hour 43 minute movie which failed at the box office.
And it being too long could be seen as a major problem with it financially.

I also think David was closer to Weyland than Vickers, its been awhile since I have seen Promethues but was Vickers jealous at all by David? I know Peter was trusting David more with the tasks he was doing and David did cut Vickers off, perhaps on Weyland's orders.

Agreed that Vickers seemed irritated with David being the favored “son” who also was told Weyland’s secret plans while Vickers was kept in the dark.

;)


Corporal Hicks
May 08, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Reply #40 on: May 08, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Q
I am curious why the film had to be on the 2 hr mark, films these days can go right up to three hours with no issue. I see no reason the film couldn't be longer to even the pacing out.

It just seems to be Ridley's (lol almost wrote Weyland here) magic number. I think it's been spoken about in some of the interviews that have to do with editing.

Quote
I also think David was closer to Weyland than Vickers, its been awhile since I have seen Promethues but was Vickers jealous at all by David? I know Peter was trusting David more with the tasks he was doing and David did cut Vickers off, perhaps on Weyland's orders.

That would seem to be the case. I got the impression he valued David more than he did Vickers.

Personally, I liked the scene. I think it sets up David's motivation very well for Covenant. I'd definitely be interested in seeing the longer version of the Crossing but I think they made the right choice with keeping the white room sequence for the prologue.


shawsbaby
May 08, 2018, 12:18:30 PM
Reply #41 on: May 08, 2018, 12:18:30 PM
Q
I love the opening.

The Crossing prologue didn't look all that well-conceived or filmed. It seemed like promo material rather than a proper part of the film--I know they did film it for inclusion in the film, and possibly more footage of Shaw, so it might just be a matter of how it was edited for the prologue--so based on what we've seen, the opening is better as is.

ALTHOUGH I would have preferred a variation on the original prologue script we've all read. I wouldn't have David just snap Shaw's neck--I would have preferred something more ambiguous that then makes the discovery of Shaw's corpse have more impact later.


Wweyland
May 08, 2018, 05:43:34 PM
Reply #42 on: May 08, 2018, 05:43:34 PM
Q
I am not a fan of philosophizing but the scene wasn't too long or out of place. Also, they found a good enough reason to include Guy Pearce not in shitty old-age makeup.


0321recon
May 08, 2018, 07:00:01 PM
Reply #43 on: May 08, 2018, 07:00:01 PM
Q
I love the opening.

The Crossing prologue didn't look all that well-conceived or filmed. It seemed like promo material rather than a proper part of the film--I know they did film it for inclusion in the film, and possibly more footage of Shaw, so it might just be a matter of how it was edited for the prologue--so based on what we've seen, the opening is better as is.

ALTHOUGH I would have preferred a variation on the original prologue script we've all read. I wouldn't have David just snap Shaw's neck--I would have preferred something more ambiguous that then makes the discovery of Shaw's corpse have more impact later.

If she was alive to that late of a point before the arrival of the Covenant crew, I could imagine the prologue was shot with her in cryo when David arrived in Paradise. 


whiterabbit
May 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
Reply #44 on: May 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
Q
No. Totally loved the scene and wished it were longer in movie.

All this talk about Shaw being dead on a table is better than Shaw being dead in a chair.


 

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