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Author Topic: Disney's Plans Regarding Alien 5?  (Read 11561 times)

JungleHunter87
Dec 19, 2017, 03:44:15 AM
Reply #30 on: Dec 19, 2017, 03:44:15 AM
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The only film that was close to an ensemble after Alien was Resurrection by including Winona Ryder.  Aliens and Alien 3 were the Sigourney Weaver show.

Okay, so, in ALIENS Newt, Gorman and Hudson didn’t have an arc? How about in ALIEN3? Did Dillon and 85 not have arcs?

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No, it was about her beating the Xenomorph.

You misunderstand me. I didn’t mean that the first film was all about the Xeno without any characters. I realize it’s ultimately a survival film in the vein of John Carpenter’s HALLOWEEN. In which the only way to survive is for Ripley to kill the killer.

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Ripley is the only character in Alien who has any development or arc.

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I think they're all pretty well developed in Alien, it's just not in your face.

So which is it? Are the characters in A L I E N well developed or is it just Ripley?

« Last Edit: Dec 19, 2017, 03:54:35 AM by JungleHunter87 »

SM
Dec 19, 2017, 04:47:22 AM
Reply #31 on: Dec 19, 2017, 04:47:22 AM
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Okay, so, in ALIENS Newt, Gorman and Hudson didn’t have an arc? How about in ALIEN3? Did Dillon and 85 not have arcs?

How does make them ensemble pieces.

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So which is it? Are the characters in A L I E N well developed or is it just Ripley?

Are you perhaps confusing developed with development?  Ripley goes through a change in Alien; the others don't.  But that doesn't mean they're undeveloped from the outset.


OpenMaw
Dec 19, 2017, 07:43:18 AM
Reply #32 on: Dec 19, 2017, 07:43:18 AM
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I would say, in the entire series, Hudson's arc is probably the most overt and in-your-face. Loud mouth cocky SOB who completely shatters and becomes a blubbering mess, only to rally in his final moments.

It is true that most characters in the Alien films, as with a lot of horror series in general, are there to serve plot-point purposes.


SM
Dec 19, 2017, 07:48:33 AM
Reply #33 on: Dec 19, 2017, 07:48:33 AM
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I think the rallying was development. The dissolving into a mess not so much. The bravado was just a cover.



OpenMaw
Dec 19, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
Reply #34 on: Dec 19, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
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I think the rallying was development. The dissolving into a mess not so much. The bravado was just a cover.

Yeah, that's true. The bravado as a whole is almost like a sub-theme of the movie. All of the marines are more or less guilty of it. Save for Hicks who basically is "on the fence" or shall we say open minded. He is the one to ask the only real serious question during the briefing.

It's interesting to isolate the marines in that regard. Those that survive the initial slaughter all have a different position they fill on the other side. Vasquez was basically right along side Hudson with her bravado. The moment she loses Drake she turns into something of strong, quiet team player. She doesn't ever really touch base with Ripley, which would be the obvious stroke for a writer to take. One of those "You were right and I was wrong" things. It doesn't need to be said, but I could see a lesser writer throwing it in there. Gorman is the only one to try and verbalize his repentance to Ripley.


SM
Dec 19, 2017, 08:19:54 AM
Reply #35 on: Dec 19, 2017, 08:19:54 AM
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There was a moment scripted between Ripley and Vasquez where they lock eyes in the APC. Ripley doesn't intend the moment to be 'I told you so' but that's how Vasquez reads it.


JungleHunter87
Dec 19, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
Reply #36 on: Dec 19, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
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Okay, so, in ALIENS Newt, Gorman and Hudson didn’t have an arc? How about in ALIEN3? Did Dillon and 85 not have arcs?

How does make them ensemble pieces.

You’re right it doesn’t. It does mean they each have interesting character arcs. Meaning not every secondary character is underdeveloped. I’d throw Dallas, Parker, and Call too that list as well.

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So which is it? Are the characters in A L I E N well developed or is it just Ripley?

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Are you perhaps confusing developed with development?  Ripley goes through a change in Alien; the others don't.  But that doesn't mean they're undeveloped from the outset.

I apologize I misread that. However as I’ve stated above Ripley is not the only character to have an Arc in the films. Including the first entry in the franchise.

Dallas goes from just doing what the company wants at the expense of others. Too putting himself in harms way for the sake of his crew and likely a regret for having broken protocol bringing the Xeno aboard.

Parker goes from not caring about anything other than his bonus. Going as far as stalling the work on the wrecked Nostromo, just to have another talk about said bonus. Too someone who is willing to sacrifice his life to save his fellow crewmen/women. If those aren’t character arcs. Then I guess I need too brush up on my writing skills.


On Topic: I would guess that if Disney keeps the ALIEN franchise then ALIENS 2 will probably be the route they take. If the Star Wars franchise is any indication. Time will tell if Ridley gets a chance at Awakening or not.

« Last Edit: Dec 19, 2017, 05:04:32 PM by JungleHunter87 »

SM
Dec 19, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
Reply #37 on: Dec 19, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
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More aspects of Dallas and Parker are revealed throughout the film, but there's no arc.

Dallas isn't doing what the Company wants at the expense of others - he's doing the job he's contracted to do.  He leads the expedition to the Derelict - he doesn't delegate it.  Again with the vents, he doesn't delegate.  He's consistent.

Dallas tells Parker he doesn't want any heroics, which means he was already the sort of person who would fight to help his crewmates.  He too is consistent.


JungleHunter87
Dec 19, 2017, 08:46:15 PM
Reply #38 on: Dec 19, 2017, 08:46:15 PM
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More aspects of Dallas and Parker are revealed throughout the film, but there's no arc.

Dallas isn't doing what the Company wants at the expense of others - he's doing the job he's contracted to do.  He leads the expedition to the Derelict - he doesn't delegate it.  Again with the vents, he doesn't delegate.  He's consistent.

Dallas tells Parker he doesn't want any heroics, which means he was already the sort of person who would fight to help his crewmates.  He too is consistent.

We can agree to disagree about what constitutes an arc. Both men are changed from where they started to when they were killed.

 As for Dallas. Like you said, he did the job he was contracted to do. Even if it made no sense for the safety of his crew. It’s gross negligence bringing Kane on board . But he redeems himself by going into the vent after the creature he knowingly brought on board. Granted he didn’t know what a Xenomorph was. Still, he put everyone in danger foolishly. Not for any evil purpose. Like a good company drone, he does whatever the company asks and never once questions it. He does all this out of blind obedience. His lack of
critical thinking is his achelles heel. Thus leading to the death of his entire crew, ship and cargo. Save for Ripley and Jonsey.

“ It happens because that's what the Company wants to happen"
“ Standard procedure is to do what the hell they tell you to do"- Dallas


OpenMaw
Dec 19, 2017, 09:00:28 PM
Reply #39 on: Dec 19, 2017, 09:00:28 PM
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We can agree to disagree about what constitutes an arc. Both men are changed from where they started to when they were killed.

Arc has a clear definition. Most of the characters in the Alien series do not have arcs. They have "jobs" to fill in the script.

Dallas and Parker are  unchanged by the encounters with the Alien. They both stick to who and what they have always been. None of them really do, in Alien. The reason is quite clear, too. The intention in Alien was to keep you guessing who might go next. Nobody is attributed overt character arcs because they make characters stick out. So all of the Nostromo crew stay the same throughout the ordeal, only their terror is at the surface. That's not an arc, though. That's just turning the prism and seeing a different angle.


Local Trouble
Dec 19, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Reply #40 on: Dec 19, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
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Dallas tells Parker he doesn't want any heroics, which means he was already the sort of person who would fight to help his crewmates.  He too is consistent.

Dallas should have told Parker: "You bring me that thing's head and we'll talk all day about the bonus situation."


OpenMaw
Dec 19, 2017, 09:05:41 PM
Reply #41 on: Dec 19, 2017, 09:05:41 PM
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Dallas tells Parker he doesn't want any heroics, which means he was already the sort of person who would fight to help his crewmates.  He too is consistent.

Dallas should have told Parker: "You bring me that thing's head and we'll talk all day about the bonus situation."

Don't you mean .... SKULL;) :D


JungleHunter87
Dec 19, 2017, 09:10:55 PM
Reply #42 on: Dec 19, 2017, 09:10:55 PM
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We can agree to disagree about what constitutes an arc. Both men are changed from where they started to when they were killed.

Arc has a clear definition. Most of the characters in the Alien series do not have arcs. They have "jobs" to fill in the script.

Dallas and Parker are  unchanged by the encounters with the Alien. They both stick to who and what they have always been. None of them really do, in Alien. The reason is quite clear, too. The intention in Alien was to keep you guessing who might go next. Nobody is attributed overt character arcs because they make characters stick out. So all of the Nostromo crew stay the same throughout the ordeal, only their terror is at the surface. That's not an arc, though. That's just turning the prism and seeing a different angle.

I know what the clear definition is. We all have access to an online dictionary. Also, it isn’t a matter of twisting the definition of character arc to fit how you view things. Both characters clearly go through an arc. If you disagree, so be it. Doesn’t mean I am wrong in my opinion that it’s fact they both check off all the boxes that make a character arc. Ripley herself stays consistent throughout the entire film. Which is plays by the book but challenges authority. You are correct though, as in every single movie ever made. Some characters are there solely to fill a role and that’s it.

Just so we’re all clear:

Character Arc - A character arc is the transformation or inner journey of a character over the course of a story. If a story has a character arc, the character begins as one sort of person and gradually transforms into a different sort of person in response to changing developments in the story. In most stories, lead characters and protagonists are the characters most likely to experience character arcs, although it is possible for lesser characters to change as well.


SM
Dec 19, 2017, 10:04:30 PM
Reply #43 on: Dec 19, 2017, 10:04:30 PM
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Both characters clearly go through an arc.

In what way?

We just find out more about them, but they don't actually change from the start of the story to their deaths.

It's like Burke in Aliens.  On the surface it might seem like he changed from Ripley's ally to would-be murderer, but for him it was always about greed.  The audience finding out more about a character doesn't mean they're transforming.

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Ripley herself stays consistent throughout the entire film.

No.  She is very by-the-book, follows orders, elects to continue with Dallas' plan, etc. until she finds out about the Special Order.  After that she quite obviously changes.  She decides to go with Lambert's previously rejected idea about abandoning ship.  It's all about survival from that point.


Local Trouble
Dec 19, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
Reply #44 on: Dec 19, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
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Dallas tells Parker he doesn't want any heroics, which means he was already the sort of person who would fight to help his crewmates.  He too is consistent.

Dallas should have told Parker: "You bring me that thing's head and we'll talk all day about the bonus situation."

Don't you mean .... SKULL;) :D



 

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