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Author Topic: Disney in talks to buy Fox. What could this mean f...  (Read 63359 times)


Magegg
Aug 15, 2018, 03:17:56 PM
Reply #616 on: Aug 15, 2018, 03:17:56 PM
Q
I wouldn't give Ridley another chance. There was no need for this to be a trilogy.

OK, I enjoyed Prometheus (many people didn't) but I thought it was going to be the start of a new spinoff franchise.

Covenant was awful IMO; a tiresome Alien re-hash with extra gore, with the idea of being a 'crowd-pleaser', but with such lame script, that repeated and amplified the braindead characters from Prometheus, it felt perfunctory and nauseating.
Ridley could at least have had it connect to Alien and be the 'true' prequel. But he was so naïve he thought we all would love it and give him yet another chance.

No, I don't want Ridley to give us one more of his embarrassing movies, and I'm sure he has no good ideas for it whatsoever. We better go to the next thing right now and forget about these failed attempts of prequels, which for me are so stupid and over the top (well, at least Covenant) my brain will never accept as canon (and I'm perfectly fine about it).


Just do some kind of 'soft reboot' based on The Female Wars, with a new Ripley actress which comes back to Earth after surviving the Alien and Aliens events. Who knows, maybe a new Bishop, a new Hicks, you can even throw around a new version of Elizabeth Shaw in this reboot/reimagining/new continuity.

Clamouring for inevitable mediocrity I don't understand.
Yeah... because Covenant was grrrreeeeat!!  :D

At least Disney does a better job with characters.

Who knows, the franchise might even end up in Cameron's hands, following the Avatar deals and so.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 03:25:18 PM by Magegg »

Fiendishly Inventive
Aug 15, 2018, 03:36:02 PM
Reply #617 on: Aug 15, 2018, 03:36:02 PM
Q
You won't get films like Alien and Logan under Disney, at least Fox gives people enough creative freedom
to do what they want in a lot of cases. To do the unpopular.

I wouldn't give Ridley another chance.

No, I don't want Ridley to give us one more of his embarrassing movies, and I'm sure he has no good ideas for it whatsoever.

Just do some kind of 'soft reboot' based on The Female Wars, with a new Ripley actress which comes back to Earth after surviving the Alien and Aliens events. Who knows, maybe a new Bishop, a new Hicks, you can even throw around a new version of Elizabeth Shaw in this reboot/reimagining/new continuity.


I find your proposals repulsive. 

& Disrespectful.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 03:44:36 PM by The Old One »

Magegg
Aug 15, 2018, 03:43:17 PM
Reply #618 on: Aug 15, 2018, 03:43:17 PM
Q
You won't get films like Alien and Logan under Disney,
You mean the R rating? I don't think a movie doesn't necessarily need an R-Rated movie to be good.

at least Fox gives people enough creative freedom
Tell that to Josh Trank.

Anyway, maybe the problem is sometimes too much creative freedom. They gave the keys to the realm to Matt Reeves (Planet of the Apes), which was good; but they also gave them to Simon Kinberg and Ridley Scott, who made some atrocious movies for X-Men and Alien, sometimes to the point of almost killing the franchises.

I think Ridley Scott misused his "creative freedom", and that goes all back to the Lost guy who wrote Prometheus without a clear plan. Covenant was no only little creative (it was sort of an Alien re-hash) but also most of his new ideas were awful. Like, was there no one there to tell him the script was terrible?

These film series need more consistent quality (similar to what Kevin Feige does for Marvel) to keep going strong. See what they did with Star Wars: The Last Jedi? There was little overseeing, they gave all the power to the director, and the movie was thoroughly divisive.

Disgusting, I'm glad you aren't in charge.
Well, that's your taste and your opinion, and I respect that.

Only saying, the prequels were not good or popular. Covenant's lukewarm reviews and low box office gross prove that. It could have been good on a fanservice level (and not all the fandom embraced the movie), but the franchise can't survive only with the fandom.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 03:50:36 PM by Magegg »

426Buddy
Aug 15, 2018, 03:54:53 PM
Reply #619 on: Aug 15, 2018, 03:54:53 PM
Q
If you want the alien series to be family friendly then please just end the series as it is.

You dont have to have an r rating to have a good film. But adult themes, language, and gore are a key component of the alien franchise. If its watered down to please all ages then it wont be satisfying  and you may as well just come up with a new scifi franchise.

Also Covenants gore isnt out of line with any of the other alien films. Maybe more intense than anything since Alien3 though. I dont think if felt forced at all in AC.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 03:56:53 PM by 426Buddy »

Fiendishly Inventive
Aug 15, 2018, 04:05:02 PM
Reply #620 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:05:02 PM
Q
You won't get films like Alien and Logan under Disney,
You mean the R rating? I don't think a movie doesn't necessarily need an R-Rated movie to be good.

No I mean something able to break normal boundaries.

I think the only awful thing about Covenant is the characters' behaviour,
the script needed tightening but the ideas were solid.


Magegg
Aug 15, 2018, 04:06:13 PM
Reply #621 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:06:13 PM
Q
If you want the alien series to be family friendly then please just end the series as it is.
Maybe you don't understand what "family friendly" means. I didn't say that. PG-13 would be alright for a sci-fi/thriller/action movie.

You dont have to have an r rating to have a good film. But adult themes, language, and gore are a key component of the alien franchise.
A PG-13 movie can feature adult themes. It doesn't need to be braindead. Look at movies like Winter Soldier; the themes and the tone were pretty adult (not kid- or teen-pandering) and it had pretty thrilling and intense action.

You can get away with a lot of stuff in a PG-13 movie. There's even an argument that Logan could have worked as a PG-13 movie; Logan wasn't good because of the gore, but because of the themes. The violence and gore was just a nice dressing, specially because some people were salivating to finally see an R-Rated Wolverine.

Language? I don't need that.

Gore? That's always been kind of a brand for the Alien series, but we've had already too many 'gorey' Alien movies, and some of them were not good (or succesful) at all. I'm open to a change in that sense. Specially because I'm not an Alien fan for its gore, but for the thrills, the action and the sci-fi aspect. But I know some of the fans won't accept it without the gore, and I respect that. Yet, here I am making my case.

If its watered down to please all ages
PG-13 is not "all ages". It's not for little 7 years olds or something. It's for both teenagers and adults.

then it wont be satisfying.
I've watched a lot of very satisfying PG-13 movies. Hell, first time I saw the Aliens movies were on public TV broadcast, with most (if not all) the gore cut, and they still were scary and satisfying as s***.
As for Covenant... it had all the gore, language and nudity, and it wasn't satisfying, it was embarrassing.

l and you may as well just come up with a new scifi franchise.
Yeah, but I want them to be the xenos. I want the Alien universe to expand its mythology, have new epic sagas, great new characters and keep going on strong... and you don't necessarily need gore and swearing for that.

No I mean something able to break normal boundaries.
There's a lot of 'boundaries' you can break without recurring to gore.


426Buddy
Aug 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Reply #622 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
Q
We just fundementally disagree then.

Also Ive seen satisfying pg13 films too. Im saying this series specifically wouldnt be satisfying if was produced with pg13 in mind.

And gore had nothing to do with the issues present in previous films.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 04:11:50 PM by 426Buddy »

Evanus
Aug 15, 2018, 04:16:24 PM
Reply #623 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:16:24 PM
Q
Yeah, I think an Alien film without R rating will feel a lot less satisfying. Especially after Covenant.


Fiendishly Inventive
Aug 15, 2018, 04:16:38 PM
Reply #624 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:16:38 PM
Q

There's a lot of 'boundaries' you can break without recurring to gore.

I'm not referring to the rating but the creative freedom those creating the film have to go off the beaten path.

To do something unpopular, to be a David Lynch, James Mangold or Jonathan Glazer.
Someone with a vision they're unwilling to compromise on.

Time and time again, Disney has shown reluctance to allow that.
Attempting to popularize the series by removing elements that have been present from 1979 is creatively bankrupt, the worst thing they could do.


Magegg
Aug 15, 2018, 04:44:19 PM
Reply #625 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:44:19 PM
Q
Time and time again, Disney has shown reluctance to allow that.
And has 20th Century Fox tried to do something "artistic" and "innovative" with the Alien franchise that's been?
Covenant was nothing but a braindead rehash of the first Alien movies, trying to pander to the gore-hungry audience, IMO. And everything else about that movie were awful ideas.
It might be Scott's product, but it was bad. Bad as a movie, bad for the business and bad for the franchise.

For me, quality is more important that "vision" or "innovation", and the last Alien entries haven't been actually good. There are a couple salvagable things here and there, but overall they were a mess. Movies shouldn't be a mess.
That's why they need supervision, of someone that knows better than Scott. It just looks like they gave all the money to Scott and then disappeared, they closed their eyes and just expected him to do masterpieces or something. They weren't.

If you're going to produce "creative freedom" movies, at least the producers should be people who recognize when a product is a good idea or a bad idea. The prequels were bad ideas and bad movies.

Disney usually produces quality movies. That's already something better than going out there like a blind man trying to hit something with a stick, which is what Fox seems to do. Sometimes they hit gold (Matt Reeve's Planet of the Apes trilogy), but twice the times, they not only hit crap but they keep hitting it (Simon Kinberg, with many bad X-Men movies; and they would be crazy if they give more money and power to Scott after Covenant), unapologeticly, and keep throwing money at it.

To be fair, some of the stuff Kinberg and Scott have done are pretty good, but some others are simply awful, sometimes again and again, and they keep giving them all the chances. That just creates inconsistent movie franchises that can end up dead at any point, and that makes hard to invest on that.

At least you should not contradict yourself with the "creative freedom" and "uncompromised innovation" thing and don't insist hiring Scott again. Having him back after TWO movie prequels, which both made the same mistakes, and asking for a third one we all know how's going to and... that's NOT innovation; it's the opposite to innovation. Give the franchise to someone else with new ideas.

Maybe Scott shouldn't have come back after the original Alien with his rancid ideas for the Jockeys and the xenos; I think everything would have been better that way.

Attempting to popularize the series by removing elements that have been present from 1979 is creatively bankrupt, the worst thing they could do.
Isn't an Alien PG-13 movie an "uncompromised" vision? Having to include gore, sex allegories and swearing in the Alien movies is kind of a pretty "established, standard" idea... wouldn't the idea of an Alien PG-13 movie be "innovative", then? ;)
This new approach could actually revitalize the franchise. Sadly, Covenant was all the opposite to that; it felt only like the hundredth rehash of the Alien franchise, hitting all the clichés and made worse by the braindead characters from Prometheus. It's clear the franchise needs something NEW, not more Ridley Scott.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 04:50:41 PM by Magegg »

Fiendishly Inventive
Aug 15, 2018, 04:56:08 PM
Reply #626 on: Aug 15, 2018, 04:56:08 PM
Q

At least you should not contradict yourself with the "creative freedom" and "uncompromised innovation" thing and don't insist hiring Scott again. Having him back after TWO movie prequels, which both made the same mistakes, and asking for a third one we all know how's going to and... that's NOT innovation; it's the opposite to innovation.
Give the franchise to someone else with new ideas.


Attempting to popularize the series by removing elements that have been present from 1979 is creatively bankrupt, the worst thing they could do.
Isn't an Alien PG-13 movie an "uncompromised" vision? Having to include gore, sex allegories and swearing in the Alien movies is kind of a pretty "established, standard" idea... wouldn't the idea of an Alien PG-13 movie be "innovative", then? ;)

If you notice, I actually never said I wanted Ridley Scott to return but that's neither here nor there.
& He did contribute new ideas in his prequels, because you didn't like them doesn't make them any less new.

I'm all for giving the franchise to new filmmakers, Tongal is doing it at the very least.
But bringing back old characters and retconning to do "Aliens but bigger" is a vapid idea, and I'll take Ridley Scott's
attempts at articulating a new idea over that. He just needs a better script to mold his work around.

No, having to include sexual subtext and fears of the foreign makes it an Alien film.
Otherwise as others have said, you might as well make a new Science-Fiction franchise.




Magegg
Aug 15, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Reply #627 on: Aug 15, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Q
If you notice, I actually never said I wanted Ridley Scott to return but that's neither here nor there.
& He did contribute new ideas in his prequels, because you didn't like them doesn't make them any less new.
They were new but bad. I want new and good.

But bringing back old characters and retconning to do "Aliens but bigger" is a vapid idea
Well, Ridley did "Alien but without aliens" with Prometheus, and "Alien but bigger" with Covenant.
OK, there was an attempt to touching new themes with Prometheus, but it was only a tease, they didn't actually fulfill anything but raising a couple questions (Lindelof as a writer? REALLY??) and then throwing all that away with Covenant.
Ridley needed guts, he ended up just rehashing his first movie; that tells me he didn't have any trust on his idea, or had nothing of substance actually planned. I liked the idea of Prometheus becoming a new thing, spinning off from Alien, but in the end, Ridley didn't know how to do anything. He didn't have the brains, only a vague intention... a whim, perhaps.

and I'll take Ridley Scott's attempts at articulating a new idea over that.
I don't. It was a mess. A disaster. A waste. And it sort of ruined the old continuity (or I would think that, if I were able to take the prequels seriously... thank God I can't, and probably no one with a brain can). No, I don't take that over an Aliens sort of follow-up.

He just needs a better script to mold his work around.
I'm not giving him another chance.

No, having to include sexual subtext and fears of the foreign makes it an Alien film.
Sadly, the formula is commercially dead. Scott himself killed it.

Otherwise as others have said, you might as well make a new Science-Fiction franchise.
Well, I want it to be Alien/s. I want it to be xenos. I want it to be engineers. Only with a better story that what we've had so far, after the first two movies. There was just so much unfulfilled potential.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 05:13:09 PM by Magegg »

Fiendishly Inventive
Aug 15, 2018, 05:34:40 PM
Reply #628 on: Aug 15, 2018, 05:34:40 PM
Q
Just Alien but bigger? No.

@ https://gothic-fiction-in-space.tumblr.com/tagged/romanticism

Your endlessing insulting of other's work does you no credit.

No one with a brain will take the prequels seriously?

O.K, that's enough talking to you for now with that elitism.

« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018, 05:38:28 PM by The Old One »

DaddyYautja
Aug 15, 2018, 05:39:46 PM
Reply #629 on: Aug 15, 2018, 05:39:46 PM
Q
Alien is fine, Scott always delivers on time and under budget.

Predator on the other hand, actually these movies are cheap but the draw I think barely covers then.

If Disney is going to try I would actually think that they would go for the pg 13 route with AVP.


 

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