Scott: I think the Beast is almost run out, personally.

Started by Ingwar, Nov 02, 2017, 10:49:37 PM

Author
Scott: I think the Beast is almost run out, personally. (Read 105,400 times)

Prof. a

Quote from: acidreign on Nov 03, 2017, 04:55:03 PM
This series will never be what any of you want it to be.
Its moment of creative vitality was from 1979-1986. You simply can't recapture that. Just can't.

Novelty and freshness are incredibly hard qualities to sustain across a horror franchise. This is especially true of the Alien films, whose universe is comprised of a limited number of tropes that grow staler with each entry.

You can try to do something different with the series but the fans will get upset that you've abandoned them. You can give them what they say they want, and they will complain it's more of the same. There's no pleasing anyone. [Certainly not general audiences, who more or less checked out on the series after Alien 3.]

The above pretty much encapsulates the situation at hand. At the end of the day, if you want to look at things from a more neutral, level-headed perspective, the hardcore fans of any series are not the target audience - rather, it is the general public that will help push a film into blockbuster territory.

The studios follow the TRENDS. And if you look at trends, you can understand why FOX did what they did with both Prometheus and Covenant.

From my own reading of the events, FOX made the decision to distance Prometheus from the Alien series because at that moment in time original sci-fi properties were dominating at the box office (Avatar, Inception for example). Considering the haul of Prometheus (and the recent comments about the profitability of the film), it was clearly a good business move.

From a creative stand point, Prometheus would probably NOT have been much different in terms of story had it closer ties with the original Alien. Sure, substitute a chestburster in the MedPod scene or add a xenomorph instead of the Fifield mutation - but it probably wouldn't have been that much different in terms of the tone, characters, and even philosophical nature of Prometheus.

Importantly, I think many fans have misread why FOX wanted to return to the Alien brand with Covenant. I don't think it was solely because of divided opinions of Prometheus.

You have to analyze the trends, the film market, and the business. Look at the resounding box office successes of Star Wars: The Force Awakens or Jurassic World. Combine this with other successful business ventures such as the Alien: Isolation video game becoming a top selling hit or the success of the Alien themed Halloween attraction at Universal Studios.  FOX was looking at this and thinking, "Nostalgia is in. Star Wars. Jurassic Park. Alien is popular in video game form and at a theme park."

So, my read of the situation, is that FOX felt that returning to the Alien brand would tap into this nostalgia that has been so wildly successful. Unfortunately what they failed to realize is that unlike those other properties, Alien is not going to have multiple generations of family members going to the theaters and introducing kids to the Alien series.

Certainly, after Covenant, what is clear is that the nostalgia trend is not helping Alien.

Again, from a creative standpoint, whether you branded Covenant as Alien or Prometheus, I don't think much would've changed creatively. Frankly, the criticism of Covenant regarding the appearance of the Xenomorph is more about fans' own personal hopes/dreams/visions of the creature than storytelling. So, if you substitute a Xenomorph for a Neomorph or Deacon or another creature at the end of the film, that would've made the film not much different from a story structure, narrative, or character perspective.

This new prequel series is thematically linked to the notion of "creation" - that is Scott's main storytelling concern in these new entries. Scott obviously wanted to elevate the Alien series beyond a horror-science fiction-thriller and take the very subtle (yet present) themes from the original series but place them in a more noticeable position. That likely wouldn't have changed no matter how you branded these films.

With the current situation, it's quite possible FOX doesn't know what to do. They may give Scott more freedom to explore and just lower the budget. In the end, perhaps that is the best circumstance for ending this series on an interesting note.




𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Alien: Isolation wasn't a top selling hit professor.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 03, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
Indeed.  It'd be nice to get a director who doesn't bring contempt for the subject matter to the project right from the start.

But who will make Alien great again?

reecebomb

reecebomb

#62
So Covenant is a corporate product conceived by the staff of the corporate in a board meeting room, a product that only the corporation need. I don't need this, can't say about others. Prof. a might have given us an explanation but certainly not a justification for this mess. What i get is, this film is made by analysts not filmmakers
The issue with the prequels go a lot futher than what the fans personally expect from the movie. Covenant is just mediocre filmmaking all the way. Of course xenomorph instead of neomorph doesn't change much because the movie still the same mess. Actually the neomorphs made the alien seem weaker, so there's that.

And yes it's more and more difficult to come up with original ideas as the time passes but is it impossible to have strong characters worth rooting for, a coherent story, some actual dread or at least creature fx that could be near the quality to film made almost 40 years ago. f**k me is filmmaking truly dead. It isn't, just saw Good Time in cinemas twice. Hollywood couldn't sink much lower though.


Alien series doesn't particularly need any novelties to be successful, first try to make the basics work and then you expand the universe. Ridley had the ambition to do something but he didn't know wtf he was doing, the writers made matters worse. If Prometheus sequel went where it was set to go, maybe something interesting could have come out of it. What we got was a second rate monster/frankestein flick with Fassbender quoting some poems.

SuicideDoors

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 03, 2017, 09:30:31 PM
Alien: Isolation wasn't a top selling hit professor.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 03, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
Indeed.  It'd be nice to get a director who doesn't bring contempt for the subject matter to the project right from the start.

But who will make Alien great again?

I may get ridiculed for this but I kinda think James Wan would be a good fit? Insidious and The Conjuring Part 2 are creepy, spooky and have great memorable characters. Hell, stick Patrick Wilson in as the lead and forget he was ever in Prometheus for 5 seconds. Even Gareth Edwards would be a sound choice. Thought Godzilla was no more than a 7/10 but he understood how to make the creature effective.

BlackMatter169

THEN WHY THE BLANKETY BLANK DO YOU KEEP MAKING THESE MOVIES RIDLEY?

It's been painfully obvious that Scott has had zero interest in making another Alien movie, even before Prometheus. And I've always felt like Covenant was a hate-filled letter to the fans of the alien, like a big ol' middle finger because we didn't like his "cerebral" art film Prometheus.

Ingwar

@Prof. a

You shouldn't follow trends because they change. The most important thing is good story.

Evanus

I wonder how the story is going to continue, then. If it continues at all.

Paranoid Android

Quote from: Ingwar on Nov 03, 2017, 09:46:21 PM
@Prof. a

You shouldn't follow trends because they change. The most important thing is good story.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to explain the studio's logic behind making Covenant. I don't think he necessarily encourages such an approach.

And I do agree with his analysis. Here's what I wrote on the subject a couple of months ago. Seems pretty relevant now:

Quote from: Paranoid Android on Sep 10, 2017, 04:55:45 PM
I don't think adding the alien in was a result of taking in criticism about Prometheus. Here's a timeline to illustrate:

2012 - Ridley Scott makes Prometheus; Says Prometheus is not a prequel to Alien; Says Alien is 'cooked'; Film gets mixed reactions from fans.
2013 - Aliens:Colonial Marines comes out; Gets annihilated both by critics and fans; Reinforces 'Alien = cooked' claim.
2014 - Alien:Isolation comes out; Gets high praise from fans and critics alike; Questions 'Alien = cooked' claim.
2015 - Neil Blomkamp releases Aliens related concept art; Claims to have idea for a sequel; Claims concept art + sequel ideas were Alien:Isolation inspired; Gets overwhelmingly positive reactions from fans.
2015 - Ridley Scott announces Prometheus 2 is now Alien:Paradise Lost; Says it's a prequel to Alien.
2017 - Blomkamp confirms Alien sequel = dead; Ridley Scott prequel now only option.
2017 - Ridley Scott apologizes for making Prometheus; Alien no longer cooked.

The way I see it, "Prometheus 2" only got made because the Alien brand was enjoying a type of renaissance due to Alien:Isolation. The studios wanted to capitalize on the renewed interest in the brand, and preferred an Alien film with Ridley Scott at the helm over Neil Blomkamp, so they told Scott the only way his sequel gets made is if he shoves fan service in it and makes it about the alien. That's also why the actual complaints about Prometheus (vague plot, dumb characters) never registered and why the end result is so disjointed.

reecebomb

Quote from: Evanus on Nov 03, 2017, 09:50:46 PM
I wonder how the story is going to continue, then. If it continues at all.

If it does continue, then it's pretty obvious where it's heading, what's more obvious is, Ridley Scott gonna say that he will scare the living shit out of you.

Baron Von Marlon

Craig Zahler would be perfect for an Alien movie.
He who wrote and directed Bone Tomahawk and Brawl in Cell Block 99, both great movies made on a low budget.

Blomkamp for an Aliens type movie.

Or let them do one together.

Ingwar

@Paranoid Android

Too bad that fan service didn't work with Covenant. Alien franchise is in shambles. Too many people involved. Too many changes are being made. No consistency with lore. For studio and producers it's just another day in the office to make money. It's business.

KiramidHead

The beast may be cooked, but you can only blame the chef for why the resulting dish tastes like shit.

BigDaddyJohn

Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Nov 03, 2017, 10:01:55 PM
Craig Zahler would be perfect for an Alien movie.
He who wrote and directed Bone Tomahawk and Brawl in Cell Block 99, both great movies made on a low budget.

Blomkamp for an Aliens type movie.

Or let them do one together.

Bone Tomahawk was a cool, creepy movie. Maybe he needs a little more experience but hey, why not.

Ingwar

Quote from: KiramidHead on Nov 03, 2017, 10:05:52 PM
The beast may be cooked, but you can only blame the chef for why the resulting dish tastes like shit.

;D

reecebomb

Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 03, 2017, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ingwar on Nov 03, 2017, 09:46:21 PM
@Prof. a

You shouldn't follow trends because they change. The most important thing is good story.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to explain the studio's logic behind making Covenant. I don't think he necessarily encourages such an approach.

And I do agree with his analysis. Here's what I wrote on the subject a couple of months ago. Seems pretty relevant now:

Quote from: Paranoid Android on Sep 10, 2017, 04:55:45 PM
I don't think adding the alien in was a result of taking in criticism about Prometheus. Here's a timeline to illustrate:

2012 - Ridley Scott makes Prometheus; Says Prometheus is not a prequel to Alien; Says Alien is 'cooked'; Film gets mixed reactions from fans.
2013 - Aliens:Colonial Marines comes out; Gets annihilated both by critics and fans; Reinforces 'Alien = cooked' claim.
2014 - Alien:Isolation comes out; Gets high praise from fans and critics alike; Questions 'Alien = cooked' claim.
2015 - Neil Blomkamp releases Aliens related concept art; Claims to have idea for a sequel; Claims concept art + sequel ideas were Alien:Isolation inspired; Gets overwhelmingly positive reactions from fans.
2015 - Ridley Scott announces Prometheus 2 is now Alien:Paradise Lost; Says it's a prequel to Alien.
2017 - Blomkamp confirms Alien sequel = dead; Ridley Scott prequel now only option.
2017 - Ridley Scott apologizes for making Prometheus; Alien no longer cooked.

The way I see it, "Prometheus 2" only got made because the Alien brand was enjoying a type of renaissance due to Alien:Isolation. The studios wanted to capitalize on the renewed interest in the brand, and preferred an Alien film with Ridley Scott at the helm over Neil Blomkamp, so they told Scott the only way his sequel gets made is if he shoves fan service in it and makes it about the alien. That's also why the actual complaints about Prometheus (vague plot, dumb characters) never registered and why the end result is so disjointed.

2017 - the beast is done, cooked. Perhaps look in the mirror why it's cooked.

Agree with the analysis.

Wonder what happened to the so called Alien rule book that was often mentioned during the production of Alien Covenant, i hope it wasn't written by analysists.

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