Space Jockey........Engineer or something else?

Started by palerider, Jun 26, 2017, 04:56:42 PM

Author
Space Jockey........Engineer or something else? (Read 28,696 times)

Scorpio

Quote from: windebieste on Jun 27, 2017, 12:08:38 AM
Engineer.  Not a retcon.

This was always going to be a problem once resolved.  Deal with it.

Engineer. 

It's not the same character.

If the Space Jockey and the Engineer seen in 'PROMETHEUS' were the same character, there would be an issue.  As they are not, any argument about size is completely disqualified.

It's not the same spacecraft. 

The vehicle we see in 'ALIEN' is left out in the open, corroded and eroded.  The pilot has been dead for anywhere between 10 months to 10,000 years.  We don't know.  The Juggernaut in 'PROMETHEUS' was a secure vehicle unlaunched and garaged in a hanger against the elements.  Very different conditions apply here.  Just leave your car outside in a car park for 10 years and compare it one that's been warehoused in a garage. 

Besides, what's to stop the Engineers from upgrading their space faring technology?  We've gone from steam to electric and diesel and trains still look much alike as they did when first invented.  Ships... cars...  tech changes but function defines form.

Finally, they engineered us, right:



So why can't the Engineers have extreme differences in sizes too..?  Answer that one, Ding-dong* :P

-Windebieste.


*That is, anyone who has proof the Engineers only come in one size and flavor.

There are at least 4 species of Engineers.   The Pilot/Space Jockey, the Engineers seen at the beginning of Prometheus, the biomech Engineers and the Engineers in Alien Covenant.  It's like the different species of hominids/humans (aka Neanderthals, Erectus, Sapiens, etc).

whiterabbit

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 02:07:12 AM

"Same shit."

QuoteOne size fits all?

I don't know.  Does it?
Still waiting that for the punch line. However that black goo surely seems to be a one size fits all to something.

Non-the-less, the joke was funny then and it is funny now. Silly space jockey.

SM

I don't have the faintest idea what you're going on about.

844064612978

844064612978

#33
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to reverse engineer a superweapon (just like all their other tech) in order to fight on equal ground with the SJ. That weapon is the Xeno (as seen in the mural), the perfect organism. They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Engineer spacecraft in Prometheus and the derelict in Alien.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being a sister moon of LV-426.

rabidranger

The Space Jockey is the Nephilim of the Engineer species.

NickisSmart

Please don't compare Alien to Diablo 3. I hate the lore in that game.

SM

Bible totes ripped off Diablo 3.

Nukiemorph

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

Holy shit, this makes sense!

Please initiate a sexual relationship with Ridley as soon as possible and guide the next script!

Xenomrph

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.
I can dig it.

Nukiemorph

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

The "sabotaging of the SJ" could be done with black goo.  It could spread throughout the pilot chamber and not only cause a creature to rip through the space jockey's ribs, but degrade his entire body making him look fossilized.  This would account for why everything looks ancient in that room in Alien.

bleau

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

Yes, this is what I was thinking was going to pan out in two more films. People keep thinking the goo is a weapon. Yes and no, it makes a deadlier weapon for something else they are at war with possibly.The questions of why they create us and want to destroy us are simple in grand scheme of things. They create us not to destroy but to change/use. We might be one ingredient in making their weapon to use on their enemies. Maybe a galactic ancient war? Perhaps there is other players in the Universe they will introduce.

Scorpio

Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM


The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.



Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

Nukiemorph

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 27, 2017, 06:22:16 AM
Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM


The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled from LV-223 to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.



Why then did the Engineers want to destroy Earth?  How does that fit into their war against the SJ?

Was it ever explicitly stated that they wanted to destroy the Earth?  I don't recall how Shaw came to that conclusion, but I'm pretty sure it was just her assumption.

HABIT

People seem to forget that engineer technology has the capability of physically FUSING with biological matter. Biomechanical, guys. BIO. MECHANICAL. You can even see this with the weird suit The Last Engineer is wearing at the end of Prometheus. Who's to say an engineer that has been inside a pilot chair for a long period of time wouldn't start to fuse with the chair, slowly growing bigger and appearing more organic over the years. Fusing also explains the teeth and tongue we see with the Space Jockey in Alien.

palerider

palerider

#44
We live in the age of CGI. Camerons Avatar , Michael Bays Transformers I believe are good examples of what can be done. Ridley could use this path to resurrect the Jockey in all its glory.


Quote from: justind on Jun 27, 2017, 04:14:12 AM
Prometheus: God (Space Jockey). Titans (Engineers). Humans (Humans). Eagle (Xenomorph).

Charlie: "Because they made us"
Elizabeth: "And who made them?"
Charlie: "Well exactly. We'll never know."

The Engineers rebelled against the Space Jockey in Paradise and stole the fire of creation (the black goo). Now at war with the SJ, they fled to LV-223 and attempted to create a weapon to use in the fight, something that already exists but they need to reverse engineer it (just like they did with all their other tech). They tried and tried to create the SJ Xeno (as seen in the mural) but couldn't quite get it right. Their efforts destroyed them. Think about it this way: if a nation was using an advanced weapon against you then you would want to figure out how it works and develop your own.

Later, David arrives at Paradise and wipes-out the "Engineers" living there. They are the ones that didn't rebel against their God. They are smaller, unmodified, and primitive. They inhabit only this city as it is an Eden. They gathered in the court with the expectation of the arrival of their God, the SJ, as normal (hence scorpion docking ship). David manages to reverse engineer a version of the SJ Xeno much closer than what the Engineers achieved. It still doesn't have the biomechnaical elements but it's close. David is very proud of "his" creation. David obtains the 2000 colonist embryos and heads back to LV-223 for more of the black goo in order to conduct his experiments. He is trying to get closer to the perfect organism, the SJ Xeno.

Alien - Awakening: The SJ returns to Paradise to find it in ruins. It manages to deduce the cause and pursue David back to LV-223. Earth also sends a dispatchment of Colonial Marines and Company investigators. Cue almighty clash between David's creations and the Colonial Marines. SJ turns up later (as the "big reveal") and curb stomps them all. The SJ takes the remaining eggs that David has formed, adds it's own touch and then heads off towards Earth. David/human hero/Deacon (did you forget about it) turns up to sabotage the SJ. It crashes on the nearby moon LV-426. Cut to decades later. We see Ash assigned to the Nostromo. Mission: "Top Secret - Science Officer's Eyes Only...Bring back life form. Priority One. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable".

The End.

Everybody wins.

Plot holes closed:

  • The mural.
  • The confusion of the Fifield mutant, Deacon, Neomorph, Protomorph and their connection to the classic Xeno.
  • The size difference between Prometheus "SJ" and Alien SJ.
  • Aesthetic and size differences between Prometheus spacecraft and Alien derelict.
  • Tightens the prequels relationship to the Prometheus mythology (God, Titans, Man, punishing Eagle).
  • David "creating" the Xeno.
  • Narrative reason for LV-223 being in a sister moon of LV-426.

PLEASE O PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRY ON TOP !

Somebody send this script to Ridley , to Fox. Couldn't be put together this well.

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