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Author Topic: AvPGalaxy Podcast #50 – Alien: Covenant  (Read 8602 times)

oduodu
Jun 09, 2017, 09:10:12 PM
Reply #30 on: Jun 09, 2017, 09:10:12 PM
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Ok slavery then . I just don't see this as justification for wiping out man and engineers . Hence me disagreeing on the statement that the  podcast in too negative.

Its early days I guess.


426Buddy
Jun 09, 2017, 10:28:53 PM
Reply #31 on: Jun 09, 2017, 10:28:53 PM
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Got to the the part about wasting the engineers as they were introduced in prometheus. Again i dont get it, i got the impression from both alien and prometheus that the engineer civilization was in great decline or already extinct due to war or their own experiments. I expected shaw to arrive at their homeworld  only to find yet another tomb. Prometheus had only a few minutes of live engineers in the whole film so i never did feel we were going to get a living fully operational engineer civilazation anyway. Considering they never returned to lv223 so they could finally wipe us out, i think their civilazation ran into enough problems that made us rather unimportant. From that perpective i had no issue with david detroying the city of engineers. But I now doubt its the last pocket of living engineers in the universe anyway even if it was their homeworld or a colony.

« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2017, 10:40:16 PM by 426Buddy »


Scorpio
Jun 10, 2017, 12:41:19 AM
Reply #33 on: Jun 10, 2017, 12:41:19 AM
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I listened to the entire podcast, it's mainly nitpicking (with all due respect).  You just have to let go of Alien 1-3 and enjoy the prequels for what they are.  A new story, new characters, etc.  Otherwise we'd just get endless remakes of Alien and Aliens (I know some people say Covenant is a remake, but it had enough new material to be its own thing).

Each Alien film is like a reboot, anyway.  It's what has kept the franchise alive.  Otherwise it would be like Friday the 13th.  So those wanting a direct sequel to Prometheus...... would not work IMO.  Scott said what he wanted with Prometheus, and decided to start over and focus on the best thing to come out of Prometheus, David the android (I know some might disagree).  I also prefer not everything explained, as it's science FICTION (another form of fantasy), in which you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps.  Main thing is whether you enjoyed the film or not.


DestinyCaptain
Jun 10, 2017, 03:55:06 AM
Reply #34 on: Jun 10, 2017, 03:55:06 AM
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Main thing is whether you enjoyed the film or not.

And it's clear that many didn't. It's not nitpicking. The issues cited are fundamental flaws in the story and it's execution. This film doesn't not hold up under ANY scrutiny. It starts to fall apart when you think about it.

It's also not about a slavish devotion to the original films. I think most of us want new stories and are willing to accept them if the writers and the directors take the time and care to execute them intelligently and with respect for their audience. Also, there is a certain expectation of quality as it relates to films that have come before. It feels like these films are getting dumber and lazier on nearly every level each time they come out. That's not a good thing. There ought to be an internal pressure to elevate the material. I just don't know if there is with these, I don't feel it. I certainly don't feel it with respect to Scott.



Scorpio
Jun 10, 2017, 04:35:31 AM
Reply #35 on: Jun 10, 2017, 04:35:31 AM
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Main thing is whether you enjoyed the film or not.

And it's clear that many didn't. It's not nitpicking. The issues cited are fundamental flaws in the story and it's execution. This film doesn't not hold up under ANY scrutiny. It starts to fall apart when you think about it.

Maybe you're approaching it from the wrong perspective.

Quote
It's also not about a slavish devotion to the original films. I think most of us want new stories and are willing to accept them if the writers and the directors take the time and care to execute them intelligently and with respect for their audience. Also, there is a certain expectation of quality as it relates to films that have come before. It feels like these films are getting dumber and lazier on nearly every level each time they come out. That's not a good thing. There ought to be an internal pressure to elevate the material. I just don't know if there is with these, I don't feel it. I certainly don't feel it with respect to Scott.

Wait until we hear the director's commentary, I am sure Scott will explain what he was trying to achieve.  I doubt it will change your opinion, as it seems you expected something totally different.  But even if I had issues with the script, it wouldn't make me hate the film.  All the Alien films have stupid dialogue and unrealistic scenarios, if you break it down.  In fact I don't know what movies don't have stupid dialogue and character decisions.


Mr. Forest
Jun 10, 2017, 04:40:17 AM
Reply #36 on: Jun 10, 2017, 04:40:17 AM
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All around a good episode of the podcast.  I'm glad it was level-headed and didn't sway into a three hour longer rant.  I sure did dislike Covenant, but I also dislike it when reviewers purely gush about a film or just bash it to no end.

Now I just wish I can subscribe to the podcast on my phone, but it's not listed on the Google service.


juxtapose
Jun 10, 2017, 07:28:51 AM
Reply #37 on: Jun 10, 2017, 07:28:51 AM
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i probably should not even comment on a podcast i have'nt even listened to yet. .3 agonizing hours of endless nitpicking. .i am scared it will suck the joy right out of me. .no thanks. .if i did'nt like covenant so much i would probably indulge in this. .as for david wanting to kill humankind. .maybe he listened to the podcast. .he he he. .each to his own and no disrespect. .

to be fair. .i suppose 3 hrs of non stop praise would'nt be much fun either. .

« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2017, 08:05:22 AM by juxtapose »

Corporal Hicks
Jun 10, 2017, 08:12:23 AM
Reply #38 on: Jun 10, 2017, 08:12:23 AM
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I think calling it 3 hours of nitpicking is unfair. I'd also like to make sure this thread doesn't devolve into people insulting each other opinions. I think this one was always going to cause some issues.

While the majority of us actually enjoyed the film, there's still so much in the film that just doesn't work for us in spite of the enjoyment. And RidgeTop vehemently dislikes the film so naturally, he's going to talk about what he didn't like.

I try to ensure we remain fair in our criticisms and make sure we do also talk about things we like but the fact of the matter is, yeah, we're passionate about the series and we're being passionate about it. I'm glad some of you - even if you did like the film - still managed to enjoy the episode and thought we achieved fairness. Those of you who didn't, I'm sorry.


whiterabbit
Jun 10, 2017, 08:18:08 AM
Reply #39 on: Jun 10, 2017, 08:18:08 AM
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You know, the simple problem here is that Ridley is trying to tell an original sci-fi story and is using the Alien Universe to tell it. He's using it because of how hard it is to create original anything today. Those things do not finance themselves. So without a doubt he is to put it figuratively "shitting on the alien" in a way. It's unavoidable.

Prometheus likely started as an alien prequel but quickly changed into an original idea shrouded with Alien DNA. Maybe not original "original" but for today such a story is rare and far between and naturally, it did get messy. When people say that no one had an idea what to do with Shaw, or where they were going, that's nonsense. Paradise was the destination. However fox went hey hold on a second, where is the alien? They seriously wanted Scott to do something with it and we got Alien: Covenant. So yea it was shoehorned in there.

The Alien in Alien: Covenant is more a philosophical beast than a physical one.


Omegamorph
Jun 10, 2017, 10:08:20 AM
Reply #40 on: Jun 10, 2017, 10:08:20 AM
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You know, the simple problem here is that Ridley is trying to tell an original sci-fi story and is using the Alien Universe to tell it.
Exactly the entire problem

this would be much better as a stand-alone film. Craft better some of the dialogue & dynamics and it would be great. The ideas, visuals etc have a lot of merit. Just not in the right series and not cooked well enough


whiterabbit
Jun 10, 2017, 10:32:43 AM
Reply #41 on: Jun 10, 2017, 10:32:43 AM
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I posted a thread like 5 years ago about how I thought the story of the engineers was Macross like, the entire seeding of worlds, bio-engineering, giant humanoids, males and females not needing the other to reproduce, etc. I mean where are the female engineers in this? The Zentradi who were engineered for war. The worlds created to welcome us, back up copies of humans being created from existing life on a world, all of that is in Macross, from the 80's. The only thing missing are the J-Pop songs.

Macross would be f**king awesome with Aliens.


Bad Replicant
Jun 10, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
Reply #42 on: Jun 10, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
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I think calling it 3 hours of nitpicking is unfair. I'd also like to make sure this thread doesn't devolve into people insulting each other opinions. I think this one was always going to cause some issues.

While the majority of us actually enjoyed the film, there's still so much in the film that just doesn't work for us in spite of the enjoyment. And RidgeTop vehemently dislikes the film so naturally, he's going to talk about what he didn't like.

I try to ensure we remain fair in our criticisms and make sure we do also talk about things we like but the fact of the matter is, yeah, we're passionate about the series and we're being passionate about it. I'm glad some of you - even if you did like the film - still managed to enjoy the episode and thought we achieved fairness. Those of you who didn't, I'm sorry.

I definitely appreciated you trying to keep it balanced. There just wasn't a lot about the movie that didn't work for me. Not saying it doesn't have issues, though. I've just read/listened to so much critical reaction already that it was a little tricky to make it through another largely dissatisfied breakdown at the moment. I'll come back to it, I'm sure.

Still think you're the most worthwhile Alien podcast out there. :-*


426Buddy
Jun 10, 2017, 12:04:02 PM
Reply #43 on: Jun 10, 2017, 12:04:02 PM
Q
I think calling it 3 hours of nitpicking is unfair. I'd also like to make sure this thread doesn't devolve into people insulting each other opinions. I think this one was always going to cause some issues.

While the majority of us actually enjoyed the film, there's still so much in the film that just doesn't work for us in spite of the enjoyment. And RidgeTop vehemently dislikes the film so naturally, he's going to talk about what he didn't like.

I try to ensure we remain fair in our criticisms and make sure we do also talk about things we like but the fact of the matter is, yeah, we're passionate about the series and we're being passionate about it. I'm glad some of you - even if you did like the film - still managed to enjoy the episode and thought we achieved fairness. Those of you who didn't, I'm sorry.

Nothing to be sorry for Hicks! i just wish there had been someone there to counter some of the criticism, or atleast talk about some of the good stuff. Ive been trying to be constructive with my counter arguments in this thread instead of just complaining about the podcast, i hope it doesnt come off as me being angry or whiny. Lord knows i have my own criticisms of the film.

I hate the idea of David being the sole creator. I wish Ridley had just stuck to the plan, the engineers creating them and David copying and making his own strain. But I do feel there is still wiggle room for it to change if/when there is a sequel. I dont like Lope getting instantly impregnated by a hugger, Orams hugging and bursting was fine with me though. I also felt that once Lope bursts on the covenant that the film moves to quickly in regard to finding and killing the alien. Also I wished they had used more practical on the alien itself. So there are a lot of valid criticisms that i agree with you guys on. But i just felt someone needed to argue for some of the merits of the film.

One thing i wanted to add about the behavior of the creature. I understand wanting the aliens behavior to not be like the ferocious tiger that it has become (i also wish for a return to the behavior of yhe creature in ALIEN). But its difficult to hold that against the film because thats largley the way the creature has been portrayed since the second film and throughout the EU. I would have thought that Scott, of all people, would have made something more disturbing out of that shower scene. That said, i really really loved the shot of the alien jumping down on that fella in davids lair and the shower headbite was wicked and nasty.

Anyway I look forward to your next episode and as always, thank you for all you do here at AvPGalaxy!


juxtapose
Jun 10, 2017, 12:49:31 PM
Reply #44 on: Jun 10, 2017, 12:49:31 PM
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yeah i am still in a recovering phase regarding the bad box office . .in mourning so to speak and trying to lick my wounds. .scared if i listen to this it would send me into dark depression . .i just get this feeling that listening to this podcast is not gonna be a very uplifting experience, considering my alrealy frail state of mind. .it's too soon guys. .i am kidding of cause. .but yeah. .


 

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