Topic: AvPGalaxy Podcast #50 – Alien: Covenant

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[oduodu]

it the same it was when I listened to the first podcast. Everyone on this podcast is still saying the same things they have been constant right through. The same criticisms that was levelled here is leveled in other podcasts. Folks I advise you to listen to the older podcasts. Then you will see that its not levelled at covenant as a peronal dissonance at the movie but "movies" as a field of study. Of course there is personal tastes but I never experienced it as out and out personal preference bitch fest. Tyere is always a balance.

Almost finished listening and my thanks for the eligthening and ontelli gent discussion.

[Bad Replicant]

I'll admit, I couldn't finish this one. Normally I look forward to this podcast, but I knew this would probably be a tough listen. If the movie hadn't been shot down left and right already I might've had more stamina, but with the amount of criticism I've read it just felt tiresome to listen to a few hours worth of more of the same (no offense, chaps). I gotta agree with 426 Buddy that it makes the Prometheus episode sound like a loving tribute by comparison. The movie surely has its issues, but I think it's getting a major bum wrap.

To quote a conversation I had with Sharp Sticks recently, "It's an Alien movie about Alien concept art, with real Alien concept art on the walls. What more could possibly make you happy?" 

[0321recon]

I'll admit, I couldn't finish this one. Normally I look forward to this podcast, but I knew this would probably be a tough listen. If the movie hadn't been shot down left and right already I might've had more stamina, but with the amount of criticism I've read it just felt tiresome to listen to a few hours worth of more of the same (no offense, chaps). I gotta agree with 426 Buddy that it makes the Prometheus episode sound like a loving tribute by comparison. The movie surely has its issues, but I think it's getting a major bum wrap.

To quote a conversation I had with Sharp Sticks recently, "It's an Alien movie about Alien concept art, with real Alien concept art on the walls. What more could possibly make you happy?" 

I agree with you, though I was able to listened through it though rolling my eyes every other minute, especially when Angry Joe was mentioned. Though I have to say at least they were cool and collected unlike other podcasts who went downtown and ripped it to shreds, and now are doing petitions for Blomkamp's cancelled project.

[Omegamorph]

it makes the Prometheus episode sound like a loving tribute by comparison.

That's only because I wasn't involved in that episode 

[426Buddy]

I was suprised that Omega was more the voice of reason in this one lol. I know Hicks tried to push the discussion towards what was enjoyable but it never would. It just stayed negative. Its not a bitchfest but it was nothing but negativity and a lot of it unfair.

At one point xenomorphine says we dont ever know why David hates humans but im pretty sure the very first scene with david and weyland reveals a lot of that. David is a slave who thinks he should be a god. But no one even attempts to give any of it a chance. Like i said earlier i gave the film a C+ but this podcast just contributes to the bum wrap this film is getting.

Ive always liked all the avpgalaxy podcasts but this one was a real disapppintment.

[jdxmoore]

Good podcast guys, thanks. I felt you had pretty balanced views overall.  I can understand the criticism and a straight up Prometheus sequel without Fox seemingly meddling in Ridley's plan would have been my preference. However I still really enjoyed Covenant and really hope we get to see the next instalment!

[oduodu]

At one point xenomorphine says we dont ever know why David hates humans but im pretty sure the very first scene with david and weyland reveals a lot of that. David is a slave who thinks he should be a god. But no one even attempts to give any of it a chance.

How does that's scene give you the impression that David hates mankind? Weyland tells him that one day together they will find out mankind isn't just some random accident of evolution. They would find out who is behind mans creation. It is noted in the podcast that David says that he has never seen such compassion from a human in shape of Shaw but then doesn't take that into consideration? And then kills off the engineers who he considers a superior species? Its obvious from Prometheus that David feels he is superior to man and that Holloway treated him like an asshole. But none of that equates to hating or destroying mankind . He even asks Holloway what he would be willing to do to get all his answers. In other words there is litearally no justification for doing what he did to the engineers and trying to prevent mankind from spreading through the universe. Except if you take the paradise engineers as lesser version of the engineers closer  to humans who lacks the bio mechanical sophistication of the LV 223 engineers.
Basically the podcast says that what was setup in Prometheus has now been discarded for no good reason and it leaves the audiences cold. So it doesn't explore what was supposed to be explored.

[banecat]

maybe david said to shaw
"hey, would you be cool if i kill you, dissect you, and harvest your organs for my disgusting experiments?"
and she was like "cool beans"

[oduodu]

Finally I cannot help but agree with starting to talk about separate continuity's. And I am a big hypocrite now because I would have been dead set against it. Now it sounds great.

I hope to God the "war of worlds " idea is only an idea.

maybe david said to shaw
"hey, would you be cool if i kill you, dissect you, and harvest your organs for my disgusting experiments?"
and she was like "cool beans"

Who knows. Maybe she was morphing very slowly from being exposed sexually to an infected Holloway . Perhaps she slowly went insane.

[426Buddy]

At one point xenomorphine says we dont ever know why David hates humans but im pretty sure the very first scene with david and weyland reveals a lot of that. David is a slave who thinks he should be a god. But no one even attempts to give any of it a chance.

How does that's scene give you the impression that David hates mankind? Weyland tells him that one day together they will find out mankind isn't just some random accident of evolution. They would find out who is behind mans creation. It is noted in the podcast that David says that he has never seen such compassion from a human in shape of Shaw but then doesn't take that into consideration? And then kills off the engineers who he considers a superior species? Its obvious from Prometheus that David feels he is superior to man and that Holloway treated him like an asshole. But none of that equates to hating or destroying mankind . He even asks Holloway what he would be willing to do to get all his answers. In other words there is litearally no justification for doing what he did to the engineers and trying to prevent mankind from spreading through the universe. Except if you take the paradise engineers as lesser version of the engineers closer  to humans who lacks the bio mechanical sophistication of the LV 223 engineers.
Basically the podcast says that what was setup in Prometheus has now been discarded for no good reason and it leaves the audiences cold. So it doesn't explore what was supposed to be explored.

What? Weyland makes it quite clear that for all of Davids perfection he's merely his slave. David, through is questioning, realizes he is superior to humans. So upon hearing Davids questions, Weyland lets David know that he's going to be his b*tch, David looks quite disappointed. I thought it was fairly clear in the film (and in prometheus as well) that David has disdain for his masters and feels superior to them. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven. The point of that first scene is not that David and dad get to go find there makers some day.

[Jonesy1974]

At one point xenomorphine says we dont ever know why David hates humans but im pretty sure the very first scene with david and weyland reveals a lot of that. David is a slave who thinks he should be a god. But no one even attempts to give any of it a chance.

How does that's scene give you the impression that David hates mankind? Weyland tells him that one day together they will find out mankind isn't just some random accident of evolution. They would find out who is behind mans creation. It is noted in the podcast that David says that he has never seen such compassion from a human in shape of Shaw but then doesn't take that into consideration? And then kills off the engineers who he considers a superior species? Its obvious from Prometheus that David feels he is superior to man and that Holloway treated him like an asshole. But none of that equates to hating or destroying mankind . He even asks Holloway what he would be willing to do to get all his answers. In other words there is litearally no justification for doing what he did to the engineers and trying to prevent mankind from spreading through the universe. Except if you take the paradise engineers as lesser version of the engineers closer  to humans who lacks the bio mechanical sophistication of the LV 223 engineers.
Basically the podcast says that what was setup in Prometheus has now been discarded for no good reason and it leaves the audiences cold. So it doesn't explore what was supposed to be explored.

What? Weyland makes it quite clear that for all of Davids perfection he's merely his slave. David, through is questioning, realizes he is superior to humans. So upon hearing Davids questions, Weyland lets David know that he's going to be his b*tch, David looks quite disappointed. I thought it was fairly clear in the film (and in prometheus as well) that David has disdain for his masters and feels superior to them. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven. The point of that first scene is not that David and dad get to go find there makers some day.

Yeah I think that's pretty obvious throughout both films to be honest

[oduodu]

What I am asking is where does David's sudden need to kill both man AND engineers - preventing man from spreading through the universe - where in the movie is there any justification for this? There is nothing showing why there is this change in David.

What I want to know is where in the first scene does it show why David would want to kill humans and engineers and prevent them from spreading? Simply because he feels aggrieved after being treated like a slave by Weyland?

How is this justification for killing mankind and engineers? 

[426Buddy]

What I am asking is where does David's sudden need to kill both man AND engineers - preventing man from spreading through the universe - where in the movie is there any justification for this? There is nothing showing why there is this change in David.

What I want to know is where in the first scene does it show why David would want to kill humans and engineers and prevent them from spreading? Simply because he feels aggrieved after being treated like a slave by Weyland?

How is this justification for killing mankind and engineers?

How is being created for slavery not justification enough? Also an engineer ripped his head off when he meets one and on top of that they appear to have created a horrible xenovirus so that they could wipe out whole planets full of their creations in one go, does he need more justification to think they don't deserve to live? Engineers appear to be even more flawed than their experiments. Lets not forget that its made clear that David has been losing his marbles in the last 10 years on top of everything else.

Maybe you dont think its justification enough, but its enough for me.

[oduodu]

How is being created for slavery not justification enough? Also an engineer ripped his head off when he meets one and on top of that they appear to have created a horrible xenovirus so that they could wipe out whole planets full of their creations in one go, does he need more justification to think they don't deserve to live? Engineers appear to be even more flawed than their experiments. Lets not forget that its made clear that David has been losing his marbles in the last 10 years on top of everything else.

Maybe you dont think its justification enough, but its enough for me.

Losing his marbles. Fair point. If it is the case. Perhaps Weyland programmed him to go bonkers once he is dead. Out of spiteful ness  about his remark about him out living Weyland.

Getting his head ripped off. Good point can't dismiss that. He may be sitting with the same god complex that Weyland had.

I don't buy the slavery thing. Sorry. Weyland called him son in both movies or closest thing to a son he will ever have and when weyland says he lacks a sole David doesn't see this as negative IMHO . He is more like accepting in a reflecting and sad as "I know I don't have sole" I am lesser than you spiritually " kind of way. He knows he is product. But its not about slavery IMHO.

Why would he care about the engineers killing off mankind if he himself wants them dead?
Oh yes the pod cast also mentions that the novelisation has Walter checking out the planet before the crew sets down. So there was inspection proper inspection then.

[426Buddy]

How is being created for slavery not justification enough? Also an engineer ripped his head off when he meets one and on top of that they appear to have created a horrible xenovirus so that they could wipe out whole planets full of their creations in one go, does he need more justification to think they don't deserve to live? Engineers appear to be even more flawed than their experiments. Lets not forget that its made clear that David has been losing his marbles in the last 10 years on top of everything else.

Maybe you dont think its justification enough, but its enough for me.

Losing his marbles. Fair point. If it is the case. Perhaps Weyland programmed him to go bonkers once he is dead. Out of spiteful ness  about his remark about him out living Weyland.

Getting his head ripped off. Good point can't dismiss that. He may be sitting with the same god complex that Weyland had.

I don't buy the slavery thing. Sorry. Weyland called him son in both movies or closest thing to a son he will ever have and when weyland says he lacks a sole David doesn't see this as negative IMHO . He is more like accepting in a reflecting and sad as "I know I don't have sole" I am lesser than you spiritually " kind of way. He knows he is product. But its not about slavery IMHO.

Why would he care about the engineers killing off mankind if he himself wants them dead?

I buy the slavery thing, In the first scene David asks big questions only to be told to get Weyland some tea, you can see the spite in weylands expression and the utter disappointment in David. Look at the way Holloway treated him? A lot of people treated him in a similar way im sure.

David doesn't care that humans were on the list specifically, he cares because of the way they treat their own creations, destroying them apparently without a problem. David seems to want to be the creator now and he treats his creations with love.