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Author Topic: So if you-know-who ends up in the Jockey seat in t...  (Read 2523 times)

shawsbaby
May 29, 2017, 12:33:23 AM
Topic on: May 29, 2017, 12:33:23 AM
Q
I know there's a lot of speculation that ultimately David winds up somehow being in the original Space Jockey seat in the final prequel leading up to Alien. If you think that's what's going to happen, then I'm curious how you think it will happen. It seems like a pretty neat (read: easy, not cool) "ironic" end to the story they're weaving, but given where Covenant leaves us, I'm not sure how this would work. Based on other things - like the fact that even with a retcon of the Engineers' size, it wouldn't make any sense that David in the chair, or the fact that he winds up on board the Covenant and no longer has any access to Engineer ships let alone be able to crash one - it doesn't seem plausible to me.

Part of me wonders if the final prequel will end with still-living Engineers coming after/tracking down David on LV-426, so we'd still just get an Engineer in the seat. I'm not sure how David ultimately advances the Xeno to the more bio-mechanical look...

Thoughts? I'm really scratching my writerly head trying to figure out what they'll do and how they'll do it and I'm drawing some blanks.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 01:22:56 PM by shawsbaby »

Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 12:37:23 AM
Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 12:37:23 AM
Q
I know there's a lot of speculation that ultimately David winds up somehow being in the original Space Jockey seat in the final prequel leading up to Alien. If you think that's what's going to happen, then I'm curious how you think it will happen. It seems like a pretty neat (read: easy, not cool) "ironic" end to the story they're weaving, but given where Covenant leaves us, I'm not sure how this would work. Based on other things - like the fact that even with a retcon of the Engineers' size, it wouldn't make any sense that Davis in the chair, or the fact that he winds up on board the Covenant and no longer has any access to Engineer ships let alone be able to crash one - it doesn't seem plausible to me.

Part of me wonders if the final prequel will end with still-living Engineers coming after/tracking down David on LV-426, so we'd still just get an Engineer in the seat. I'm not sure how David ultimately advances the Xeno to the more bio-mechanical look...

Thoughts? I'm really scratching my writerly head trying to figure out what they'll do and how they'll do it and I'm drawing some blanks.

1. Space Jockey sent out a warning beacon.

2. David is an android. How can he be facehugged? Is Ridley somehow going to retcon this shit too? f**k!


shawsbaby
May 29, 2017, 12:41:59 AM
Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 12:41:59 AM
Q
Yeah, I mean I hope they have a real goal of where they're going that doesn't stupidly retcon everything but all signs so far are leading to the path of least resistance...


Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 12:44:30 AM
Reply #3 on: May 29, 2017, 12:44:30 AM
Q
Yeah, I mean I hope they have a real goal of where they're going that doesn't stupidly retcon everything but all signs so far are leading to the path of least resistance...

Not really. What about the Engineers finding out about what David did in A:C and hunting him down with the help of Walter? I think this would be of least resistance. We get the Prometheus + A:C connection and we end the prequels in one full circle. We also get Walter back! ;)


shawsbaby
May 29, 2017, 12:47:02 AM
Reply #4 on: May 29, 2017, 12:47:02 AM
Q
Yeah, I mean I hope they have a real goal of where they're going that doesn't stupidly retcon everything but all signs so far are leading to the path of least resistance...

Not really. What about the Engineers finding out about what David did in A:C and hunting him down with the help of Walter? I think this would be of least resistance. We get the Prometheus + A:C connection and we end the prequels in one full circle. We also get Walter back! ;)

It seems consensus though, based on Ridley's comments, that they took care of the Engineer "problem" they made for themselves by having David wiping them out completely. I don't think they plan to bring Engineers back in a significant way.


skhellter
May 29, 2017, 12:54:57 AM
Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 12:54:57 AM
Q
> David gets back to LV223.
> Uses the 2000 colonists on the Covenant to create more eggs.
> Experiments on Daniels, creating the first "biomechanoid" lifeform out of her. He keeps her trapped a la Ex-Machina.
> Nu Aliens have biomechanics aesthetics, are tougher, smarter.
> David experiments with biomechanics on himself. Finally "transcends" his "human" aspects.
> David steals a juggernaut, places many eggs in there and gets ready to go to Earth,
> Daniels escapes, teams up with a few other colonists from the Covenant that hadnt been experimented on and sets out to make sure David never reaches Earth on his Juggernaut.
> Inevitably, David loses control of his creation, now that he's a "bio"mechanoid.. the facehugger manages to implant an embryo inside him. (hubris! Irony)
> David is killed by his own creation. The Juggernaut crashed on LV426. The survivors place a warning beacon before they die of starvation inside the Juggernaut. The survivors kill the David-Morph

> The Nostromo inevitably finds the Derelict.

and
Ripley battles the "rapist offspring" of a deranged  former slave bisexual impotent android with an obsession for human reproduction and a lust for revenge. An offspring that is the unwitting byproduct of Weyland Yutani's inhumman treatment of their synthetics. (a slave race, pretty much.)

probably be something like that.
 :laugh:

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 01:09:02 AM by skhellter »

Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 12:56:16 AM
Reply #6 on: May 29, 2017, 12:56:16 AM
Q
Yeah, I mean I hope they have a real goal of where they're going that doesn't stupidly retcon everything but all signs so far are leading to the path of least resistance...

Not really. What about the Engineers finding out about what David did in A:C and hunting him down with the help of Walter? I think this would be of least resistance. We get the Prometheus + A:C connection and we end the prequels in one full circle. We also get Walter back! ;)

It seems consensus though, based on Ridley's comments, that they took care of the Engineer "problem" they made for themselves by having David wiping them out completely. I don't think they plan to bring Engineers back in a significant way.

Thats a smack to our faces. Why is Prometheus even there at all? A space-faring species are living in an ancient city wearing robes? Can't do that man. Can't just dump ideas like that away... I guess they dumped Shaw in the trash too with this movie. I'm pretty upset. We want to see Engineers and Aliens. The Prometheus problem can still be salvaged into something greater.

> David gets back to LV223.
> Uses the 2000 colonists on the Covenant to create more eggs.
> Experiments on Daniels, creating the first "biomechanoid" lifeform out of her. He keeps her trapped a la Ex-Machina.
> Nu Aliens have biomechanics.
> David experiments with biomechanics on himself.
> David steals a juggernaut, places many eggs in there and gets ready to go to Earth,
> Daniels escapes, teams up with a few other colonists from the Covenant that hadnt been experimented on and sets out to make sure David never reaches Earth on his Juggernaut.
> Inevitably, David loses control of his creation, now that he's a "bio"mechanoid.. the facehugger manages to implant an embryo inside him. (hubris! Irony)
> David is killed by his own creation. The Juggernaut crashed on LV426. The survivors set out a warning beacon before they die of starvation inside the Juggernaut.

> The Nostromo inevitably finds the Derelict.

and
Ripley battles the "rapist offspring" of a deranged  former slave bisexual impotent android with an obsession for human reproduction and a lust for revenge.

Something like that.

How the f**k do you make an android into a organic being? What is david going to do? Fuse his body with a human? this is getting insane. Not sci-fi. Probably some crazy anime shit that is not grounded in reality at all. Plus where does David get the derelict from? How convenient that it appears out of nowhere to for him to use. Perhaps, the Engineer gods use David as their resort to destroy Earth. David communicates with them through the black goo by praying. Ask and it shall be given! Yea no. Lets not go there.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:59:33 AM by Spirit of Fire »

skhellter
May 29, 2017, 01:07:01 AM
Reply #7 on: May 29, 2017, 01:07:01 AM
Q
How the f**k do you make an android into a organic being?

> David's hair is shown to be able to grow. His body already exhibits seemingly organic behaviour. Alien universe "synthetics" were never exactly like the standard nuts and bolts scifi "robots".
> Not to mention.. how "can" a creature that is "born".. grow up on its own to become "biomechanical" and even have cables, etc? I call Scifi Shenanigans!
> Alien isnt truly realistic Hard-Scifi anyway. (artificial gravity aboard the spaceships? Faster than light travel? It sure aint 2001) there's enough wiggle room for "Mysterious Engineer Tech" to make David "biomechanical"... maybe making his body similar to the sleeping engineer in Prometheus.

Plus where does David get the derelict from? How convenient that it appears out of nowhere to for him to use.

> There's lots of "Juggernaut" type crafts in LV223. David said so at the end of Prometheus. He could always go back, get more black goo, as well.
Perfect planet for David's experiments, really. There's no reason for the Derelict to "appear out of nowhere".. there's already a planet with plenty ships just like that one.

> The Alien in the first film is "mysteriously" compatible with human life. Humanoid, can eat and digest humans despite not being a carbon based lifeform.. and its own biology is perfectly wired to use humans (and other mammal's) as "hosts" for its vile life cycle. This aspect of the creature has always made real biologists scratch their heads a bit.. in fact it's almost as if the xenomorph was "designed" to be used against humanity.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 01:30:30 AM by skhellter »

Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 01:30:03 AM
Reply #8 on: May 29, 2017, 01:30:03 AM
Q
How the f**k do you make an android into a organic being?

> David's hair is shown to be able to grow. His body already exhibits seemingly organic behaviour. Alien universe "synthetics" were never exactly like the standard nuts and bolts scifi "robots".
> Alien isnt truly realistic Hard-Scifi anyway. (artificial gravity aboard the spaceships? Faster than light travel? It sure aint 2001) there's enough wiggle room for "Mysterious Engineer Tech" to make David "biomechanical"... maybe making his body similar to the sleeping engineer in Prometheus.

Plus where does David get the derelict from? How convenient that it appears out of nowhere to for him to use.

> There's lots of "Juggernaut" type crafts in LV223. David said so at the end of Prometheus. He could always go back, get more black goo, as well.
Perfect planet for David's experiments, really. There's no reason for the Derelict to "appear out of nowhere".. there's already a planet with plenty ships just like that one.

> The Alien in the first film is "mysteriously" compatible with human life. Humanoid, can eat and digest humans despite not being a carbon based lifeform.. and its own biology is perfectly wired to use humans (and other mammal's) as "hosts" for its vile life cycle. This aspect of the creature has always made real biologists scratch their heads a bit.. in fact it's almost as if the xenomorph was "designed" to be used against humanity.

So what if he grows hair? He is still an android... a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. Not a human. No human organs. As I've mentioned before, if a facehugger can use an android as a host, they shouldn't be called facehuggers but Pipehuggers. They can impregnate ships, trucks, and cars. The Alien embryos get their nutrients from the oil... no nvm. what am i saying? Its insane.

In regards to the ship, David said he could go back to get more black goo. He didn't say to get more derelict ships. The ship itself in Prometheus was a bomber. I don't see any other ships around unless Ridley pulls it out of his ass. Its time this series takes a more serious tone on a grand scale. No more dumbshit characters. No more asspull plots.


Rankles75
May 29, 2017, 01:31:44 AM
Reply #9 on: May 29, 2017, 01:31:44 AM
Q
He would have to grow about 10 feet to be the same size as the thing in the chair in Alien...


skhellter
May 29, 2017, 01:34:01 AM
Reply #10 on: May 29, 2017, 01:34:01 AM
Q
In regards to the ship, David said he could go back to get more black goo. He didn't say to get more derelict ships. The ship itself in Prometheus was a bomber. I don't see any other ships around

 :laugh:

If you dont really know the films that you are discussing, then maybe this forum isnt for you.

So what if he grows hair? He is still an android...

It's almost as if Ridley was being ambiguous as to how "organic" David already is...  :D

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 01:37:17 AM by skhellter »

Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 01:35:29 AM
Reply #11 on: May 29, 2017, 01:35:29 AM
Q
In regards to the ship, David said he could go back to get more black goo. He didn't say to get more derelict ships. The ship itself in Prometheus was a bomber. I don't see any other ships around

 :laugh:

If you dont really know the films that you are discussing, then maybe this forum isnt for you.

And you would rather settle for silly asspull plots? lol.


bb-15
May 29, 2017, 01:36:27 AM
Reply #12 on: May 29, 2017, 01:36:27 AM
Q
I know there's a lot of speculation that ultimately David winds up somehow being in the original Space Jockey seat in the final prequel leading up to Alien. If you think that's what's going to happen, then I'm curious how you think it will happen. It seems like a pretty neat (read: easy, not cool) "ironic" end to the story they're weaving, but given where Covenant leaves us, I'm not sure how this would work. Based on other things - like the fact that even with a retcon of the Engineers' size, it wouldn't make any sense that Davis in the chair, or the fact that he winds up on board the Covenant and no longer has any access to Engineer ships let alone be able to crash one - it doesn't seem plausible to me.

Part of me wonders if the final prequel will end with still-living Engineers coming after/tracking down David on LV-426, so we'd still just get an Engineer in the seat. I'm not sure how David ultimately advances the Xeno to the more bio-mechanical look...

Thoughts? I'm really scratching my writerly head trying to figure out what they'll do and how they'll do it and I'm drawing some blanks.

** A. Before I address many of the challenges in trying to make "Covenant" fit in with the first 3 Alien movies in another prequel, I'll go over the barriers to Scott making another Alien prequel.
1. "Covenant" earnings are underperforming and will be lucky to break even in theaters.
That's pretty sad but that's what I'm seeing now looking at the box office.
2. The Fox studio may go with bringing Sigourney back in another Alien franchise timeline where she, Hicks and Newt survive. That was Cameron's original idea before "Alien 3".

** B. But let's say by some miracle that Scott is given another $100 million to make another Alien movie. What could he do?
- I think he may ignore the whole thing with David being the xenomorph creator and instead just focus on an action/horror film about David messing with the Covenant colonists and crew with lots of monster fights. 
That would be the best box office decision imo. Why bog another film down with trying to fill in all the backstory connections?

** C. Let's say the studio is going to give Scott the money anyway and he decides to connect David, the only xenomorph creator, with "Alien" "Aliens" and "Alien 3".
The problems.
1. Imo making David the Space Jockey doesn't make sense. His mechanical insides are filled with circuits, sensors and mechanical equipment which don't fit human anatomy.
- His outer appearance is made to mimic how a human looks. That was explained in "Prometheus".
But his outer shell is not the same as his inner workings.
- Still, that's just based on my knowledge of computers and science fiction androids.

Ridley might just say screw it and have a facehugger attack David.
It doesn't make logical sense within the franchise but that doesn't seem to limit Scott's recent decisions.

2. What does David have to do to fit his new story into the other Alien movies?
- He needs to make hundreds of xenomorph eggs, maybe on Origae-6.
- Then David has to find the derelict which is either abandoned or is being piloted by a living Engineer (the Space Jockey).
- David has to put hundreds of xenomorph eggs on that Engineer ship which then in some way gets to LV-426 with a dead pilot. 
3. David also needs to create a xenomorph Queen egg and get that on the derelict with all the other xenomorph eggs.
- David's xenomorphs would need to learn that he is not their mother but that they should serve the Queen.
- He would need to teach the xenomorphs to bring victims to the eggs, let the life-cycle work and then once a Queen is born, the drones would need to serve her and not David.

* There is enough here for a xenomorph documentary.

;)

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:23:32 AM by bb-15 »

Spirit of Fire
May 29, 2017, 01:44:33 AM
Reply #13 on: May 29, 2017, 01:44:33 AM
Q
I know there's a lot of speculation that ultimately David winds up somehow being in the original Space Jockey seat in the final prequel leading up to Alien. If you think that's what's going to happen, then I'm curious how you think it will happen. It seems like a pretty neat (read: easy, not cool) "ironic" end to the story they're weaving, but given where Covenant leaves us, I'm not sure how this would work. Based on other things - like the fact that even with a retcon of the Engineers' size, it wouldn't make any sense that Davis in the chair, or the fact that he winds up on board the Covenant and no longer has any access to Engineer ships let alone be able to crash one - it doesn't seem plausible to me.

Part of me wonders if the final prequel will end with still-living Engineers coming after/tracking down David on LV-426, so we'd still just get an Engineer in the seat. I'm not sure how David ultimately advances the Xeno to the more bio-mechanical look...

Thoughts? I'm really scratching my writerly head trying to figure out what they'll do and how they'll do it and I'm drawing some blanks.

** A. Before I address many of the challenges in trying to make "Covenant" fit in with the first 3 Alien movies in another prequel, I'll go over the barriers to Scott making another Alien prequel.
1. "Covenant" earnings are underperforming and will be lucky to break even in theaters.
That's pretty sad but that's what I'm seeing now looking at the box office.
2. The Fox studio may go with bringing Sigourney back in another Alien franchise timeline where she, Hicks and Newt survive. That was Cameron's original idea before "Alien 3".

** B. But let's say by some miracle that Scott is given another $100 million to make another Alien movie. What could he do?
- I think he may ignore the whole thing with David being the xenomorph creator and instead just focus on an action/horror film about David messing with the Covenant colonists and crew with lots of monster fights. 
That would be the best box office decision imo. Why bog another film down with trying to fill in all the backstory connections?

** C. Let's say the studio is going to give Scott the money anyway and he decides to connect David, the only xenomorph creator, with "Alien" "Aliens" and "Alien 3".
The problems.
1. Imo making David the Space Jockey doesn't make sense. He's mechanical insides are filled with circuits, sensors and mechanical equipment which don't fit human anatomy.
- His outer appearance is made to mimic how a human looks. That was explained in "Prometheus".
But his outer shell is not the same as his inner workings.
- Still, that's just based on my knowledge of computers and science fiction androids.

Ridley might just say screw it and have a facehugger attack David.
It doesn't make logical sense within the franchise but that doesn't seem to limit Scott's recent decisions.

2. What does David have to do to fit his new story into the other Alien movies?
- He needs to make hundreds of xenomorph eggs, maybe on Origae-6.
- Then David has to find the derelict which is either abandoned or is being piloted by a living Engineer (the Space Jockey).
- David has to put hundreds of xenomorph eggs on that Engineer ship which then in some way gets to LV-426 with a dead pilot. 
3. David also needs to create a xenomorph Queen egg and get that on the derelict with all the other xenomorph eggs.
- David's xenomorphs would need to learn that he is not their mother but that they should serve the Queen.
- He would need to teach the xenomorphs to bring victims to the eggs, let the life-cycle work and then once a Queen is born, the drones would need to serve her and not David.

* There is enough here for a xenomorph documentary.

;)

-The Derelict would come from the Engineers.
-Engineers in conflict with David and his Xenos. Engineers prevail and they take David's creations with them which leads to the space jockey in ALIEN.
-David escapes back to Earth and takes control of Weyland-Yutani.

^ and we get to ALIEN where the dead jockey sends out a warning beacon not to approach the Derelict.


echobbase79
May 29, 2017, 01:47:31 AM
Reply #14 on: May 29, 2017, 01:47:31 AM
Q

If there's not another prequel, then the story of LV-426 will remain a secret. Which is fine with me. We could all assume the Covenant went to Origae-6 to become the Alien homeworld.


 

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