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Author Topic: Spoilers: Xenomorph origin revealed  (Read 29257 times)

episodenone
Mar 17, 2017, 01:49:17 PM
Reply #195 on: Mar 17, 2017, 01:49:17 PM
I am loving the deeper parallels between David and Ash that this plot point reveals. For me, Ash's admiration of the alien takes on a a few extra dimensions if the alien was actually engineered by another AI.

David's concept of a mother echoes back to Ash's concept of rape.

Yes -- I agree and was thinking the same thing. 
I also love Aliens and I thought RS and JC were actually friendly enough to have considered making a sequel together.  They certainly are fans of Androids in general.
I don't see RS looking to Retcon out anything from Aliens -- but perhaps the other movies are all on the table for recon-ability.

AVP is canon. The Zenomorph is at least thousands of years old. End of story.

Yes - the Z enomorph is -- but the X enomorph is not. Problem solved.  ::)

The inter dimensional idea I thought was made tongue in cheek -- it is not remotely possible and would be a distraction from the story.

@ fernandito and to miracles of Space Travel that the Engineers should be privy to -- I'll admit any of that is certainly possible.  Lightspeed is Lightspeed -- and I think that even if the Juggernaut was able to travel wormholes -- I don't think it works a la Battlestar Gallactica.

And David's transmissions still might be subject to our understanding of Physics unless the Juggernaut communication systems are able to be re-configured. But that would take time in any case I would bet.

Oh -- I never noticed that there was a line on the map showing that route particularly.  I'll need a screenshot or to look again later.
 


DaddyYautja
Mar 17, 2017, 08:41:28 PM
Reply #196 on: Mar 17, 2017, 08:41:28 PM
AVP is canon. The Zenomorph is at least thousands of years old. End of story.

As far as the current canon is concerned, AvP is not. Scott hates its and purposefully ignores it and retcons aspects of it with Prometheus.

he hates it so much that Prom is basically a remake of AVP.

actually, what exactly did Prom retcon? Prom doesnt deal with the xenos, it just deals with the Jocks.


426Buddy
Mar 17, 2017, 08:49:34 PM
Reply #197 on: Mar 17, 2017, 08:49:34 PM
AVP is canon. The Zenomorph is at least thousands of years old. End of story.

As far as the current canon is concerned, AvP is not. Scott hates its and purposefully ignores it and retcons aspects of it with Prometheus.

he hates it so much that Prom is basically a remake of AVP.

actually, what exactly did Prom retcon? Prom doesnt deal with the xenos, it just deals with the Jocks.

Prometheus is only a remake of AvP if you pull way back and look at the basic plot structure and also have an agenda to promote, like that AvP isn't as bad as everyone thinks. In anycase that basic plot structure has been done many times in other films and literature (ATMoM anyone?). Its akin to saying Aliens is just a remake of Alien because plotwise they hit many of the same beats. It's really a tired and silly debate since Prometheus and AvP are very different film experiences in the same way that Alien and Aliens are very different experiences.

« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2017, 09:32:28 PM by 426Buddy »

D. Compton Ambrose
Mar 18, 2017, 09:23:22 AM
Reply #198 on: Mar 18, 2017, 09:23:22 AM
Well, Wayne Haag has confirmed that no one scene is going to reveal the origins of the species, so the press reports are misleading. That said, Chris Seagers has stated that they're edging into the Giger aesthetic; the biomechanical big chap, whether David will be 100% responsible for that remains to be seen.
*Breathes guarded sigh of relief.*


Le Celticant
Mar 18, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
Reply #199 on: Mar 18, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
AVP is canon. The Zenomorph is at least thousands of years old. End of story.

As far as the current canon is concerned, AvP is not. Scott hates its and purposefully ignores it and retcons aspects of it with Prometheus.

he hates it so much that Prom is basically a remake of AVP.

actually, what exactly did Prom retcon? Prom doesnt deal with the xenos, it just deals with the Jocks.

Prometheus is only a remake of AvP if you pull way back and look at the basic plot structure and also have an agenda to promote, like that AvP isn't as bad as everyone thinks. In anycase that basic plot structure has been done many times in other films and literature (ATMoM anyone?). Its akin to saying Aliens is just a remake of Alien because plotwise they hit many of the same beats. It's really a tired and silly debate since Prometheus and AvP are very different film experiences in the same way that Alien and Aliens are very different experiences.

Sure there are "narrative structure" which are similar (and to be honest that's probably why Prometheus is nothing of an original thing) but there are many many many elements that just seems to be very similar and aren't featured in at the mountain of madness or any similar film in that regard.
-Ego-centric multi billionaire weyland who wants to be immortal and mark history.
-People go quickly on an adventure by an ellipse without knowing anyone (explained in AVP, left aside in Prometheus)
-People get trap in a maze (especially the two people who were the opposite of each other and started on the wrong foot)
-Protagonist boyfriend goes full suicide



Ya know... that kind of stuff I don't remember being in at the mountain of madness :D


426Buddy
Mar 18, 2017, 02:23:25 PM
Reply #200 on: Mar 18, 2017, 02:23:25 PM
Well thats true only if you strip away all the details that make they two films vastly different, and over simplify the similar events so they sound even more similar, then yeah the films will look more like eachother than they really are.

The films are as different as they are similar and very different experiences, especially thematically and in tone. Neither are very good experiences unfortunatly.


« Last Edit: Mar 18, 2017, 02:41:01 PM by 426Buddy »

DaddyYautja
Mar 18, 2017, 05:56:34 PM
Reply #201 on: Mar 18, 2017, 05:56:34 PM
Well thats true only if you strip away all the details that make they two films vastly different, and over simplify the similar events so they sound even more similar, then yeah the films will look more like eachother than they really are.

The films are as different as they are similar and very different experiences, especially thematically and in tone. Neither are very good experiences unfortunatly.

there's no over simplifying anything, like it was said, rich dying dude going off to explore some alien place. The aliens are an ancient culture that has been messing with man for a long time and they appear in several different societies. The place they are exploring is off near nowhere and they are alone. Heck, there are even shots that looks similar. Some dude throwing flares down a tunnel looks like Fifield throwing up his mapping balls. Finding a freaking pyramid. come on.

Sure, they are in different settings are there are different conversations,etc,  but those two films are essentially the same at their base. And the point im saying is that Scott hates those so movies so much yet he used same structure on this Prom film. I find that humorous. That's like saying you hate burrito but you like quesadillas. They are essentially the same thing! It's just one folded like a tube.



SpeedyMaxx
Mar 18, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
Reply #202 on: Mar 18, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
At least we can all agree AVP is non canonical and never, ever coming back.


juxtapose
Mar 18, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
Reply #203 on: Mar 18, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
their might be similariries in the plot stucture, but in my view it was unintentional. .and prometheus just did it with so much more penache and class. .it's way more sophisticated than avp. .sorry but how anyone can even dare compare the 2 . .prometheus had some problems. . But it was one classy peace of sci fi. .and i am not looking to start a debate cause their has been a million on here by now.. .so i agree to disagree with those who hated it. .different strokes for different folkes. .for me avp was moderately enjoyable. .but largely forgettable. .same goes for avpr. .i enjoyed those movies. .but forgot about them the moment i walked out of the cinema. .prometheus will always have this lingering effect on me. .


Alien Runner
Mar 19, 2017, 11:06:03 AM
Reply #204 on: Mar 19, 2017, 11:06:03 AM
The Xenomorph already exists. Their purpose is probably to terraform planets. The Temple in Prometheus is a Deacon. In the comic fire and stone, Deacon from Prometheus ends up turning into a live Mountain. I believe that the xenomorph Mural at the beginning of the movie shared a similar fate. The cycle goes like this:

Black goo - infects host-> Proto-facehugger - Host -> Deacon/Neomorph

In Prometheus:

Black goo - Biologist-> .... (Notice the hammerpedge went straight into the dude's mouth? It went in to lay an embryo in him.)

Black goo - Shaw's womb -> Proto-FH - Host (Engineer) -> Deacon

In Covenant:

Black goo - plants -> Plant spores - Host (Humans) -> Neomorphs

Xenomorphs are originally organic. David will "perfect" them by adding the mechanical aspect. After all, David is a synthetic. ;)

Queen (Perhaps Shaw will play a part in this) -> Eggs -> Host -> Proto-Xenomorph

^ Looks like in Covenant, we get to see David implement the female reproductive system into the Xenomorph's lifecycle with Shaw's eggs then he will implement the synthetic part later.

The xenomorph is an ancient beast that comes from the black goo. David improves upon it by including 2 aspects. Human female reproductive system (We know engineers are all male so how did the xenomorph end up with a queen & eggs?) and synthetics into the Alien creature to create the Beast we all know and love.

This is a theory btw.



Infected
Mar 19, 2017, 11:33:59 AM
Reply #205 on: Mar 19, 2017, 11:33:59 AM
The Xenomorph already exists. Their purpose is probably to terraform planets. The Temple in Prometheus is a Deacon. In the comic fire and stone, Deacon from Prometheus ends up turning into a live Mountain. I believe that the xenomorph Mural at the beginning of the movie shared a similar fate. The cycle goes like this:


There could be a possibilty that thats true, but will it come with a docking bay for the engineer ships?
i can see a relation between organic vessels and structures, its one thing that is depicted in most movies, the aliens create some sort of own infrastructure, they do it in Aliens and in..... uhh so the eggs the engineer touches are the deacons kidneys? oh let me open the cargo bay by tickling your kidneys.
It could work, but i dont think its the direction Ridley will head, but i do believe in organic mixed with tech in due time, even in our world.


XenoHunter99
Mar 20, 2017, 02:14:20 AM
Reply #206 on: Mar 20, 2017, 02:14:20 AM
I'm in agreement with Daddy Yautja here. And Juxtapose, you are totally trying to start the debate. You can have that Prometheus was classy, but it was also crap. To be blunt, AVP did some things flat out better than Prometheus. *shrug*



bobcunk
Mar 20, 2017, 04:06:52 AM
Reply #208 on: Mar 20, 2017, 04:06:52 AM
I think the black goo turns things into xenomorphs and david is trying to perfects it mixing it with different life forms. maybe all the xenomorph is, is the the result of the goo on a spore pod. Or maybe the black goo is a synthesized version of the neomorph spores, that turns things into xenomorphs and by mixing it with the original neomorph it turns into a bigger version ( eggs and huggers are just muted sporpods and spors.



 

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