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Author Topic: Scott says "Covenant is about mortality and immort...  (Read 18590 times)

Glaive
Jan 02, 2017, 08:51:40 PM
Reply #150 on: Jan 02, 2017, 08:51:40 PM
Ridley says a LOAD of shit...much of it contradictory...


prometheusfire08
Jan 02, 2017, 11:31:31 PM
Reply #151 on: Jan 02, 2017, 11:31:31 PM
interesting to think the covenant made between the engineers and the Alien being the engineers get immortality and the tech to Travers entire universes and the Alien creature gets hosts in return 😊😊😊


prometheusfire08
Jan 02, 2017, 11:49:18 PM
Reply #152 on: Jan 02, 2017, 11:49:18 PM
I wonder if the Paradise engineers renounced that covenant and remained pure whilst our lv223 engineers devoted themselves and their ideology and physicality to that of the Alien creature they worship from the mural


PRJ_since1990
Jan 03, 2017, 01:08:42 AM
Reply #153 on: Jan 03, 2017, 01:08:42 AM
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!  So true.  At least don't rely solely on 4Chan as a reliable source - always get your information verified if it comes from 4Chan.

Mind you, 4Chan does have its uses.  Like, gathering all the trolls in one place.  It's too bad they just don't stay there.

-Windebieste.
Yeah that is a shame they don't. It would be humorous to look back after the film comes out and has been dissected to pieces that the story elements were true.

Why of why did Ridley feel the need to retcon the mysterious, surreal and truly "alien" Space Jockey creature into a something so mundane as a big, blue human??  That was my biggest frustration with Prometheus.  He took the "alien" out of Alien.

Going back to these PROMETHEUS movies however, I would have preferred a storyline which kept the 'Xenomorph' eggs (along with the 'Queen') as having evolved in a truly independent, 'alien' manner on some far-flung planet with difficult conditions...rather than ending up as some kind of developed 'bio-weaponry' by 'tall humanoids'...which seems to be the direction Ridley's going. 

Fair enough, if that's the way he wanted to set these creatures up...but I REALLY could have done without him involving the 'tall humanoids' as being instrumental in OUR develpment too!! 
This this this that and this! The Alien movies were always enjoyable because they were about the story of Ripley and her survival against the Xenos. The focus was never on where they came from, but rather, dealing with them on a scene to scene thrill ride, let alone throwing mankind's creation into the mix. Perhaps the possible extinction, sure, but never creation. Had he left that out, Prometheus would still be a movie about scientists following a star map from extraterrestrials, finding their remains, discovering that they are mad scientists building monsters in their little shop of horrors to bomb the Earth with! Their motive could literally be jealousy of mankind, their beautiful world, something like that.



As one of the few Christians on the forum here, I read a lot of interesting posts to say the least.

If we respect each other and make sure to post SPOILERS when necessary, the forum will continue to thrive!

Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.

You are not the only Christian, here, PRJ....so don't feel too lonely.  I haven't posted in a few years, but used to be a regular.  I agree with your post, completely.  I am a scientist, by background, and accept the Modern Synthesis of Evolutionary Theory as the correct scientific explanation of life's development on Earth.  With that said, I see the complex beauty, contingency, and the evolution of humanity (in the fullness of time) as a shining, ne plus ultra example of God's Providence at work in our physical Universe.  In my personal case, it was the deeper study of physics and advanced mathematics which helped serve to reinforce my Faith.  As a devout Catholic, we understand that there exists no contradiction or incompatibility between Faith and Science. 

"Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." -- CCC #159

Cheers,
John
Thank you for the kind sentiment Deuterium. Although I must admit we have doctrinal differences, I'm glad to hear you speak your heart. What are your thoughts on the Alien prequels then and where do you think the series is going? Feel free to DM if needed.

« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2017, 01:18:57 AM by PRJ_since1990 »

proto leech
Jan 03, 2017, 03:52:17 AM
Reply #154 on: Jan 03, 2017, 03:52:17 AM
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Was worried this would happen.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


windebieste
Jan 03, 2017, 04:19:27 AM
Reply #155 on: Jan 03, 2017, 04:19:27 AM
I think the important thing here is the word 'apparently'.

-Windebieste.


Deuterium
Jan 03, 2017, 08:25:47 AM
Reply #156 on: Jan 03, 2017, 08:25:47 AM

Thank you for the kind sentiment Deuterium. Although I must admit we have doctrinal differences, I'm glad to hear you speak your heart. What are your thoughts on the Alien prequels then and where do you think the series is going? Feel free to DM if needed.

Hi PRJ,

Firstly, a brief sideline / segue related to previous post...
I just wanted to clarify that the Catholic Church has not made a dogmatic declaration or doctrinal definition when it comes to the Creation timeline and duration of events.  A Catholic is free to believe in a literalistic interpretation (i.e. six 24-hour days), or to interpret and understand the Creation narrative in a more figurative, allegorical (and anagogical) manner.  The Church teaches, unambiguously, that all of Sacred Scripture is the inspired Word of God, and affirms it's inerrancy.  However, there is no question that the Bible, nor the inspired authors, ever intended to present a scientific account of Creation.  The inerrancy needs to be understood in light of the four senses of Scripture, as well as the distinction between interpreting the Bible literally (which we do), or interpreting the Bible literalisticaly.  The "literal" meaning of a passage of Scripture is the meaning that the author of that passage of Scripture intended to convey. The "literalist" interpretation of a passage of Scripture is: "that's what it says, that's what it means."  The latter has to be handled with more care, and with a firm grasp on the style and genre that the inspired author was writing.

The 73 books of the Bible are written by many inspired authors, who are writing in many different genres, across a great span of time. Certain books (such as the Gospels, Acts, and many of the Epistles) are straightforward historical accounts.  Others, such as Revelation and the Book of Daniel belong to Apocalyptic genre.  Still other books are written in the style and genre of prophecies, allegories, parables, poetry, songs, etc.

So, to be clear, most Church scholars, including many of the Early Church Fathers, do not hold a "literalistic" interpretation of Genesis, although they all hold a "literal" interpretation.  This would also be the case for the Orthodox Church, as well as most main-line Protestant denominations.

Now, back to your question on my thoughts/opinions on Prometheus, and the state of the Alien franchise, in general.  Please keep in mind that everything to follow is simply my humble opinion (obviously).

I won't pull any punches.  I absolutely loathed Prometheus.  IMHO, it was a beautifully filmed mess.  I was offended by the bad science that riddles the film, as well as the bad scientists making outrageously stupid decisions.  Also, there is the ridiculous retcon of the once mysterious, eerie, unsettling, disturbing and utterly alien Space Jockey.  Now, it becomes nothing more than an exo-suit worn by a big, blue human.   Of course, we have the ill conceived "Chariots of the gods" storyline to thank for that.  Even that wouldn't have been so bad, if Lindelof and Scott had maintained a truly inscrutable and utterly alien high tech civilization as the so-called "engineers".  Heck, I wouldn't even have had a problem with an alien Space Jockey race interacting with and influencing ancient human culture. But Lindelof/Scott had to shoehorn in a lame "they were our creators", we were "made in their image" twist and anti-religious corruption of authentic Judeo-Christian belief. Then, there is the sheer laziness of non-explanation, via the introduction of a magical "black goo".  How I hate the "black goo" trope.  Finally, we have the not-so-subtle atheist agenda shoved in our face, with the character of Shaw facing a crisis and then losing her Faith.  Seems like we can never get a story of someone, when faced with a spiritual crisis, finding the strength (working through Grace) to persevere and triumphantly reaffirm and renew their Faith with a deeper and abiding conviction.  I guess that wouldn't be "edgy" enough.   ::)

So, to sum up, my favorite films of the franchise are:

#1)  Alien (by a country mile) -- pretty much a "perfect" film, like "Jaws" or "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
#2)  Aliens -- excellent film in it's own right, and a great action flick.  However, I have issues with how Cameron reduced the fantastical, biomechanical, Lovecraftian Alien into something that is little more than a glorified insect (hence "bug-hunt"), complete with a Queen termite.  The original nightmare fuel, the "perfect organism", has been transformed into a rather mundane bullet-sponge.
#3)  Alien 3

Cheers,
John





Corporal Hicks
Jan 03, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
Reply #157 on: Jan 03, 2017, 08:59:55 AM
4Chan was pre reshoots yes?

No, post. It's why he may have found the ending a bit confusing. Apparently it was telegraphed a lot more obviously in the earlier screening.

Just thinking to myself, who in the right mind would leak such info on imdb of all places, they have almost everything needed to bust one's ass on completely legal grounds with standing. This is stealing cable illegal with or without a NDA.

It's a very frequent occurance and they happen on all sorts of dubious outlets that people don't take seriously.

Trust me on this. I havent believed it myself till now... :) They are completely true.

I thought you were going to go into the screen still firmly denying them.  :laugh:

Sagardoa and 4chan haven't seen the final cut. Besides 4chan doesn't look like die-hard Alien fan so perhaps he didn't pay attention enough to the details.

Completely true. We still don't know what other changes might occur between then and now. Reactions I heard to that last screening were quite positive though.

BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!  So true.  At least don't rely solely on 4Chan as a reliable source - always get your information verified if it comes from 4Chan.

I did. Otherwise I never would have said it sounded legit. Just wanted people who wanted to go in spoiler-free warned away from it.

« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2017, 09:13:46 AM by Corporal Hicks »

Godzillakuj94
Jan 03, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
Reply #158 on: Jan 03, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
So for those who have read the spoilers, with a simple yes or no, does it sound like we've got a good movie on our hands?


Deuterium
Jan 03, 2017, 09:25:09 AM
Reply #159 on: Jan 03, 2017, 09:25:09 AM
So for those who have read the spoilers, with a simple yes or no, does it sound like we've got a good movie on our hands?

If the spoilers are true, then it would appear (to me) that Covenant will have many problematic elements, both in story/narrative as well as character reactions and motivations.  There may well be a disturbance in the force.   :'(


juxtapose
Jan 03, 2017, 09:41:57 AM
Reply #160 on: Jan 03, 2017, 09:41:57 AM
To me it sounds like a great movie. .a nice combination of alien and prometheus and i enjoyed both. .is everyone gonna love it. .? ofcause not. . But i think i will.


whiterabbit
Jan 03, 2017, 11:00:40 AM
Reply #161 on: Jan 03, 2017, 11:00:40 AM
So the spoilers are most likely true? hmm...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Corporal Hicks
Jan 03, 2017, 11:13:24 AM
Reply #162 on: Jan 03, 2017, 11:13:24 AM
To me it sounds like a great movie. .a nice combination of alien and prometheus and i enjoyed both. .is everyone gonna love it. .? ofcause not. . But i think i will.

I think this one is going to have a really steep uphill battle to face. Prometheus pissed off some Alien fans so much that Fox wanted to steer it back towards Alien so there's going to be some expectation from Alien fans who will likely be pissed off that it's still including elements of Prometheus. Then we're going to have fan of Prometheus that might be pissed off that it's steering off-course and heading back to Alien.

Hopefully it'll end up being a well rounded film and from what I've heard, the recent screening was actually pretty tight and put together.


BringbackJonesy!
Jan 03, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Reply #163 on: Jan 03, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Personally, I'm going into this movie looking on it as the 2nd half of PROMETHEUS, rather than looking on it as a 'standalone' - I have a hard time believing that it's gonna make much sense to those that haven't seen PROMETHEUS first, but who knows?, perhaps some of that movie's content will be reprised by dialogue exposition of some sort.

I'm interested to see if the 'black goo' will be fully explained this time around - I'm going to make a guess is that it might turn out to be the naturally-growing 'black spores' on the planet 'Paradise' which is the initial source of producing that.

Either way, at this point I'm more interested in what how the 'black goo' supposedly came about in the first place, rather than how it was eventually used by others.


irn
Jan 03, 2017, 12:04:34 PM
Reply #164 on: Jan 03, 2017, 12:04:34 PM
Personally, I'm going into this movie looking on it as the 2nd half of PROMETHEUS, rather than looking on it as a 'standalone' - I have a hard time believing that it's gonna make much sense to those that haven't seen PROMETHEUS first, but who knows?

Yeah I think this would be the best way to view the film. From what we know so far the film would be better off being called Prometheus Covenant as it as serving as part 2 of that story.


 

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