"Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla" meaning?

[Immortan Jonesy]

I want to discuss something that I find interesting. It has to do with the return of Weyland and his interaction with David. I think there could be hidden clues about Engineers.

Obviously what follows, reported by this site, could contain potential spoilers:

"We have learnt that Guy Pearce will be reprising his role as a slightly younger Peter Weyland during the film's opening scenes. The current edit of Alien: Covenant begins with David 8 being brought online in a large white room with a grand view overlooking an ocean.
A younger, but still somewhat aged, Weyland asks David various questions to test him. We eventually move to David performing Richard Wagner's Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla, explaining the meaning of the piece as he plays."

There you have it..."Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla"...Do you think there are clues in this piece? maybe something about the history of the Engineers and the Paradise? What is the meaning anyways?

I did a little research on Valhalla and this is what Wikipedia says:

"In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain") is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök."

So, do you think there are hidden clues in this story? Let me know your thoughts...

[Immortan Jonesy]

Well I was thinking, Valhalla sounds like a heaven for Warriors. And we know that there are vestiges of a war in Alien: Covenant...







Perhaps there is a difference between the physical Paradise (Engineer's planet) and the astral Paradise. Maybe, the Engineers have religious beliefs or even a God...



The story also talks about Ragnarök, Could be the plans of extermination of the human race? 

[BishopShouldGo]

Interesting. Ridley is known to get inspiration from many areas besides films. Paintings. Music. Etc

[SM]

Do we know there are "vestiges of war"?  Reminds me more of Pompeii.

[Ingwar]

Read this. It's about Paradise Lost and Wagner.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/alien/45043/alien-covenant-and-prometheus-making-sense-of-their-plots

[whiterabbit]

Oh my... what you're suggesting is that the engineers themselves believe in god? Actually that twist has already been done and is one of the greatest real world fears upon the discovery of intelligent alien life. However I think it could work in Prometheus/Alien.

However the scene in Alien: Covenant, the dead engineers, seem to be less of a battle and more of an extermination.

[Immortan Jonesy]

@SM and @whiterabbit, I admit this was wild speculation on my part...and I have no evidence to support my claims lol and in fact, it could be more like POMPEII, who knows at this point...

@BishopShouldGo, that's the fun part of participating in forums like these: speculation and theories.



"Das Rheingold, to outline it very briefly, sees a dwarf named Alberich steal a magical gold ring from a bunch of maidens who live in the Rhine. That ring, which gives its wearer power over the whole world, is in turn stolen from the dwarf by Wotan, a Zeus-like god of gods. Meanwhile, there's trouble in Valhalla: the gods have contracted a pair of giants to build them a luxurious new house, but when it comes time for the gods to pay up, they renege on the deal. What follows is an almighty tussle between giants, gods and ordinary mortals, with the purloined ring the MacGuffin at the centre of it all."

@Ingwar, interesting reading...so, the black goo could be as an equivalent of the ring of Das Rheingold, an item that contains the power of the gods. And we have the mortals (humans), the Giants (Engineers) and maybe the Gods (those who created them). I think a great battle or event occurred in the ancient past...and I wonder if we can see part of this conflict at the present time (Maybe David will unleash hell in paradise). Also, Engineers can be divided into fractions:

a) Those who support God

b) Those who support Satan

For a civil war I can think of several reasons, such as:

1) Space Jesús: There are engineers who want to help the human race to evolve...but there are evil giants who are jealous of the progress of mandkind, ready to exterminate life on planet Earth.



2) Prometheus Myth: There are Engineers who want to give powerfull gifts to mandkind against the will of God...



3) The rebellion of angels: Perhaps there are Engineers who want to be like their Gods (the original Space Jockeys), and they have stolen technology from them...perhaps they betrayed them and killed them.



4) Engineers have an enemy (Another race of aliens): unlikely, but this could explain why they have created a biological weapon so powerful and dangerous...



And that's all I can think of for now 

[oduodu]

Here is a list of books I stumbled upon that seems to discuss the events of the angels especially the books of Enoch and Jasher and Jubilees  tells of the angels and their doings:

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/index.html

[Immortan Jonesy]

Here is a list of books I stumbled upon that seems to discuss the events of the angels especially the books of Enoch and Jasher and Jubilees  tells of the angels and their doings:

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/index.html

A part of the book (Enoch) focuses on the theme of the Watchers (angels), and says that these angels had sex with women and fathered giants (Nephilim), dark beings who unleashed violence on earth and perverted the human race. In addition, there is a connection between the story of the Watchers and the story of the universal Flood, present in the genesis.

I think Ridley Scott said in the past that engineers are like beautiful dark angels, or something like that. But their interaction with the human race's ancient past is our best evidence that the engineers, in fact, are the Watchers.



Now who are the Nephilim? the monsters?



Also, in ancient history, there is a lot of material that could serve as inspiration for these movies. For example legends of men in animal suits as the myth of Adapa.



Adapa, the first of the Mesopotamian Seven Sages, was a mythical figure who unwittingly refused to receive the gift of immortality. The Mesopotamian myth speaks of seven antediluvian sages who were sent by Ea, the wise god of Eridu, to bring the arts of civilization to mankind. It reminds me of Engineers as celestial beings who are taking part in the progress of the human race...a concept which was explored in Prometheus:



Going back to the Bible...

In the paradise of Eden in the Bible stories there is something called "Tree of the knowledge of good and evil", In Christian theology, the consumption of fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the original sin committed by Eve and then Adam, known as the fall of man in Genesis 2-3. But the fruit is not evil, because it was made by God. The real sin is disobedience...



What if the engineers are angels in the service of someone else? Perhaps their planet (paradise) used to have a Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in the form of some kind of forbidden technology (perhaps the source of black goo), and they stole this technology and used it for evil, turning paradise into hell.

[Enoch]

My first theory...
What if Engineers are in fact personification of Prometheus... and the story
is all about "forbidden knowledge" and what will happen when someone wants
to play god...

We could open thread about Mythology and Covenant/Prometheus.
I would like to mention this:

Eitr -

Eitr is a mythical substance in Norse mythology. This liquid substance is the origin of all living things: the first giant Ymir was conceived from eitr. The substance is supposed to be very poisonous and is also produced by Jörmungandr (the Midgard serpent) and other serpents. Sounds familiar?

[Immortan Jonesy]

My first theory...
What if Engineers are in fact personification of Prometheus... and the story
is all about "forbidden knowledge" and what will happen when someone wants
to play god...

The "forbidden knowledge" could be a strong theme in the plot of the movie. Engineers civilization may be the personification of the titan Prometheus...so there must be a Zeus in this whole equation. An entity which is the source of the powers of the Engineers. It could be a machine, an intelligent creature or even a monster. Who knows.

I think the Paradise used to be a beautiful place...during the golden age of this civilization...but something must have gone horribly wrong...maybe it was the war, punishment or arrogance...Well, whatever it is, we will find out soon.

But what about David, He's playing to be God in this sequel. Maybe he is Prometheus 

[Enoch]

I think the ultimate creator/destroyer entity is
some kind of intelligent monster. Not good,
nor bad in its nature.

[Immortan Jonesy]

My first theory...
What if Engineers are in fact personification of Prometheus... and the story
is all about "forbidden knowledge" and what will happen when someone wants
to play god...

We could open thread about Mythology and Covenant/Prometheus.
I would like to mention this:

Eitr -

Eitr is a mythical substance in Norse mythology. This liquid substance is the origin of all living things: the first giant Ymir was conceived from eitr. The substance is supposed to be very poisonous and is also produced by Jörmungandr (the Midgard serpent) and other serpents. Sounds familiar?

Wow, this whole thing about Eitr It sounds very similar to the black goo concept. Thanks for sharing it with us  It could be the inspiration for this concept? I hope so.

So, maybe a primordial monster could be the source of this ancient alchemy...

I think the ultimate creator/destroyer entity is
some kind of intelligent monster. Not good,
nor bad in its nature.

I imagine this thing as something as mysterious and incomprehensible as black monoliths from "2001 a space odyssey"

[Enoch]

Also my theory

I think there has been some very subtle (almost hidden) clues about goo in Prometheus:


I made tons of images like this one, trying to
analyse some possible hints on goo origin...

I imagine this thing as something as mysterious and incomprehensible as black monoliths from "2001 a space odyssey"

Me too...

[oduodu]

The nephilim according to one of those 3 books I mentioned are the children of the fallen angels who was created when they mated with earth woman. These nephilim also  had souls and spirits as men and angels do. However God decided (according to aforementioned books) that they shall not have everlasting life ( which the fallen angels desired for their  children the nephilim) and instructed his (good) angels to spread dissent hatred amongst them so that should kill each and not live past 500 years. Since they died their spirits were released and seeks bodies to live in. So they (I assume the fallen angels) created hybrid creatures - cloned DNA mixtures of different creature (like goats mixed with horse for example ) that had no soul so that the nephilim spirits could enter into it bring their own soul into it.

Apparently due to this God brought the flood over the earth to destroy them all. So If  Valhalla is to be considered and gods enter into it then the fallen angels definitely can be gods and Valhalla is probably their abode prior to being banished.

According to one of the books 90 percent of the fallen angels were bound in chambers in darkness inside the earth where they are to be kept for the day of judgement. So only 10 percent is allowed to roam while they seek to re-establish their offspring  previous glory.

The bible says Lucifer was perfect in beauty. Wow he must have been something to look at. There are also reports that he had musical instruments organs  inside him that could produce music for the glorification of God. So he became stubborn of heart and decided he wanted to get on God' s throne and was thrown out. He took a third of the angels with him.

I guess the music industry and the worship of good looks is satan' s fault. And the adoration of woman.

Well that's what I heard anyway.

So if you hear start hearing rumours of hybrids - transhumanism  - talks of  clones - then we should maybe start to wonder how much of those tales are the truth.