Is Fox Trying Too Hard To Create A Marvel-esque EU? - AvPGalaxy Podcast #40

Started by Corporal Hicks, Sep 29, 2016, 08:08:12 AM

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Is Fox Trying Too Hard To Create A Marvel-esque EU? - AvPGalaxy Podcast #40 (Read 16,978 times)

Kurai

Considering Scott's fondness of the concept, I'm pretty much 90% sure that the new Blade Runner coming up will be a part of this EU. As for The Predator, I'd say a stand-alone Yutani Corporation cameo would be the most logical.

I for one welcome our new expanded universe overlords. :P

#VickersTheReplicant

SM

QuoteSM, that is the whole point of an extended universe.  Everything works together. Books, movies, comics, etc.  Fox owns it, they have control over it.

And they are making the most concerted effort to try and make everything work together, more than any other time in the franchise's history.

This is entirely separate to 'Fox should just make a good movie' however.

426Buddy

426Buddy

#17
Great podcast once again guys!

Not much to add other than I like the new EU mostly. I enjoiyed fire and stone but l&d isn't doing much for me. Defiance has been amazing. However I have only listened to the "out of the shadows " audio drama, I have not read any of the new books.

Out of the shadows left a bad taste for me and haven't been to keen to pick up the other books anyway. The covers don't help.

SM

If there is one constant, it's that fans know what they like when they get it, but when you ask them what they want, it can get a bit confused.

Corporal Hicks

Some of the replies make me wonder if I put myself across properly. Personally I don't have any problem with a "Marvel-esque" EU because as far as I'm concerned, that is how the Alien films and Alien comics started. They all had connected narratives and elements running through them from the very start. I don't think the Fire and Stone or Life and Death series have had the various other series shoehorned in, I think they just did the wrong story (at least in F&S, can't judge L&D yet) and weren't able to really do anything with where it went.

My issues are with the retcons and shoehorning elements into that. There was no need for Ripley in Out of the Shadow, there was no need for Colonial Marines in River of Pain and while I can't really judge the Predator prequel thing, I really don't see any need for that proposed story.

Kurai

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 03, 2016, 08:06:40 AM
I don't think the Fire and Stone or Life and Death series have had the various other series shoehorned in, I think they just did the wrong story (at least in F&S, can't judge L&D yet) and weren't able to really do anything with where it went.

I disagree here. In my opinion, F&S had a great story to tell that was hampered by trying to fit everything together instead of focusing on the Black Goo Biome and survival with Aliens in the wild. They had so many great ideas that ended up going nowhere because each player had to have a chance to hold the ball.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 03, 2016, 08:06:40 AM
My issues are with the retcons and shoehorning elements into that. There was no need for Ripley in Out of the Shadow, there was no need for Colonial Marines in River of Pain and while I can't really judge the Predator prequel thing, I really don't see any need for that proposed story.

This is the big issue here, the face-hugged elephant in the room. They're saying "This is popular! Put this in!" and it just convolutes everything. Ripley served zero purpose in Out of the Shadows, the story still would have worked without her. As much as I liked Sea of Sorrows, Decker's connection to Ripley and the Alien picturing her as "The Enemy" and thus imprinting that onto Decker was equally unnecessary. I haven't read River of Pain yet but, from what I hear, it flies in the face of established lore.

An Aliens Cinematic Universe would be amazing, and Fox needs to realize that a Universe is massive. Not everything needs to connect directly and they certainly don't need to retcon things that have been established.

As for the Predator novel... I don't even have words.  :(

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Kurai on Oct 03, 2016, 09:05:18 AM
I disagree here. In my opinion, F&S had a great story to tell that was hampered by trying to fit everything together instead of focusing on the Black Goo Biome and survival with Aliens in the wild. They had so many great ideas that ended up going nowhere because each player had to have a chance to hold the ball.

The problem was it couldn't tell that story for fear of stepping on Prometheus 2's toes. It was the wrong story to tell because they couldn't do anything with it. They should have done something completely different.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 03, 2016, 08:06:40 AM
This is the big issue here, the face-hugged elephant in the room. They're saying "This is popular! Put this in!" and it just convolutes everything. Ripley served zero purpose in Out of the Shadows, the story still would have worked without her. As much as I liked Sea of Sorrows, Decker's connection to Ripley and the Alien picturing her as "The Enemy" and thus imprinting that onto Decker was equally unnecessary. I haven't read River of Pain yet but, from what I hear, it flies in the face of established lore.

An Aliens Cinematic Universe would be amazing, and Fox needs to realize that a Universe is massive. Not everything needs to connect directly and they certainly don't need to retcon things that have been established.

Agreed. Thankfully Alien seems to be moving away from it now. The Rage Wars was completely different with nothing new. Defiance, despite the small cameos by Amanda, is moving off and doing its own thing. I still feel like Amanda may be introduced for an arc down the line that serves as an Isolation 2 though.

QuoteAs for the Predator novel... I don't even have words.  :(

I'm gonna read it and I'm going to try and go in with an open mind but ... What is even the point? 

EJA

Quote from: Kurai on Sep 30, 2016, 08:59:53 PM
Considering Scott's fondness of the concept, I'm pretty much 90% sure that the new Blade Runner coming up will be a part of this EU. As for The Predator, I'd say a stand-alone Yutani Corporation cameo would be the most logical.

I for one welcome our new expanded universe overlords. :P

#VickersTheReplicant

Blade Runner with the Alien/Predator EU? No way.

Kurai

Kurai

#23
Quote from: EJA on Oct 03, 2016, 04:00:30 PM
Blade Runner with the Alien/Predator EU? No way.
Well Prometheus had various bits and pieces alluding to it. Outside of the bonus BluRay content, IIRC, the writing on one of the pyramid walls translated to the big Belt of Orion speech, though I can't find the link to that now so I might be remembering wrong. The real sign that this is a real possibility is that Ridley wanted the Tyrell Corporation to be a part of Prometheus and thought it was "A really cool idea" and hey, guess who's producing Blade Runner 2 (which may be a remake)?

Found it: http://www.scified.com/topic/24216
Quotethe first two sentences are on the screenshot eghom vivizat hjae nahman veragnan mekjahu-bhoruktaj agne-ghwrnaj ghunakt' orjon' i've seen things you people wouldn't believe attack ships on fire off the should of orion i watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the tannhauser gate all those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain time to die for the interested based on this screenshot i was able to create a font of the engineer's writings.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#24
Quote from: EJA on Oct 03, 2016, 04:00:30 PM
Blade Runner with the Alien/Predator EU? No way.

Blade Runner had its own version of Weyland-Yutani (aside from Tyrell) called the Shimata-Dominguez Corporation.  That's the company who was advertising the off-world colonies on that futuro blimp over LA.

I wouldn't mind a reference to them as a competitor to Weyland-Yutani.


SM

QuoteMy issues are with the retcons and shoehorning elements into that. There was no need for Ripley in Out of the Shadow, there was no need for Colonial Marines in River of Pain and while I can't really judge the Predator prequel thing, I really don't see any need for that proposed story.

"NO RETCONS AND SHOEHORNING! 

EXCEPT FOR ISOLATION!!!  MORE OF THAT, LESS OF EVEYRTHING ELSE!!"

QuoteRipley served zero purpose in Out of the Shadows, the story still would have worked without her.

No it wouldn't.  It would've needed to be a different story.

As for the title of the podcast - it's misnamed.  What Fox is doing isn't Marvel-esque.  Marvels comics and the films based on them wildly differ, and are separate continuities.  What Fox is doing is trying to is what Star Wars did with it's EU - trying to make the films and EU as cohesive as possible.

XenoZipper

The Marvel movies barely differ and they do go towards a bigger continuity. Look at the Cap.America movies. They're not stand alone movies, they branch off of whatever happened in a previous Marvel movie and you're lost if you didn't watch the previous movie. They can barely even do stand alone movies anymore without at least another hero or 2 showing up in the movie. Marvel's stuff is getting beyond boring. And no I'm not for throwing in Blade Runner into the Alien EU, they are separate entities having nothing to do with one another and should stay that way.

Kurai

Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
"NO RETCONS AND SHOEHORNING! 

EXCEPT FOR ISOLATION!!!  MORE OF THAT, LESS OF EVEYRTHING ELSE!!"

Hear hear!  :D

Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
QuoteRipley served zero purpose in Out of the Shadows, the story still would have worked without her.

No it wouldn't.  It would've needed to be a different story.

I disagree 100%, but I see where you're coming from. The same characters and situation would have led to an interesting story with or without Ripley. The goals without the Narcissus there would be different but the exact same story beats could have been followed without Ripley. But that's not a discussion for here.  :P

Quote from: SM on Oct 03, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
As for the title of the podcast - it's misnamed.  What Fox is doing isn't Marvel-esque.  Marvels comics and the films based on them wildly differ, and are separate continuities.  What Fox is doing is trying to is what Star Wars did with it's EU - trying to make the films and EU as cohesive as possible.

Indeed. Going along a MCU style would be closer to what Fire and Stone/Life and Death are up to in the comics but with somewhat connected stand alone Alien-Predator-Prometheus-AvP movies coming out fairly regularly.

windebieste

I don't think Scott has ever provided any inclination that any of his movies are part of any shared Universe.  'Thelma and Louise' doesn't get a mention in 'The Counselor' or 'Matchstick Men'.  The events of 'Kingdom of Heaven' are not a part of 'Robin Hood'.  'Blade Runner' has no real connection to 'ALIEN'. 

Why should he start now?  Maybe he will tie both series together but I think it's very unlikely.  He tends to treat each movie as its own piece of cinematic art form, unnassociated with any of his other movies.   Why stop at connecting 'Blade Runner' and 'ALIEN'?  Otherwise, why not just connect them all? 

Maybe Ripley is descended from Robin of Loxley, after all.  lol.

-Windebieste.

SM

SM

#29
QuoteThe Marvel movies barely differ and they do go towards a bigger continuity.

Which is separate to the comic book source material, which was my point.  The Civil War storyline depicted in the original comics bares little similarity to how it played out in the Captain America film.

QuoteI disagree 100%, but I see where you're coming from. The same characters and situation would have led to an interesting story with or without Ripley.

Ripley's presence along with the Narcissus and Ash working at odds to the characters are integral to the story. You might have had an interesting story without them, but you can't just cleanly lift them out.  And as such I find some of the 'you didn't need Ripley in that story' criticisms a bit misguided.  Without her - it's not the same story, so you kinda do need her.

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