User Information

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Blomkamp’s Alien 5 is “Innovative, Amazing, Perfor...  (Read 49288 times)

Nostromo
Jul 27, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Reply #135 on: Jul 27, 2016, 08:03:06 PM
Q
Here's your recipe:

1/4 baked - The premise of an alien on the Sulaco.

1/2 baked - An actual egg that makes 2 facehuggers aboard the Sulaco.

3/4 baked - Killing off 2 fan-favorite characters in the opening credits.

fully baked - Killing off Ripley, the main character

Contrary to what many people on this site say, the Aliens series is not just about the "aliens" as characters.  It is still about the people, just as every good story is.  Ripley is the core character, so killing her off is stupid.  Newt gave her the reason to go on living, so killing her, kills Ripley on the inside.  And Hicks, well Hicks was just the coolest space marine ever, and he was the last one left from that James Cameron crew that everyone loved.  Killing him off too just closed the door on that whole Colonial Marine aspect of the second film.

You want new characters?  Fine.  You have them with the Prometheus series.  Now the fans of James Cameron's masterpiece also want to have a film which respects the accomplishments of that film.  Go Blomkamp!  Go Blomkamp!  (Just no Ripley / Alien face masks please.

For me, your name says it all, Perfect Organism. When I think, read or watch anything Alien that is what I want to find out more about. I'm sure many people are like that, they like that horror feeling deep in space in unknown territory...the adventure side of things, who could or couldn't care less about Ripley or other characters because they're just passers-by in these lands...

But at the same I can understand others point of view..that like to see Characters especially Ripley just kick some Alien butt but in a smart movie not some shyte. You're right they should go ahead and make Prometheus and other Alien movies for us mystery Alien loving types and an Alien 5 will blended action, horror and mystery in it. Damn I wish James Cameron would stop that Avatar non sense and direct it...I just don't want another fanboy director making one...James Cameron is a perfectionist and that's what you need otherwise you get an AR.

And yes no Alien Hats or Oculus Rift wearing Aliens.

PS> Has there ever been a movie series like Alien & Aliens, where the sequel was so good that it actually divided the whole fanbase? It's amazing when you think about! When I was growing up I liked Aliens more, than around age 27 or so I competely became an Alien fanatic. I'm sure most of you like both movies but have a favorite.

Anyhow with or without Ripley I could care less, just want to see well written stories with Alien or Aliens made into movies. Preferably the horror type, set in space somewhere without too much gore or action unless it's made in a smart way like Aliens.

« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2016, 08:18:18 PM by Nostromo »

Perfect-Organism
Jul 27, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
Reply #136 on: Jul 27, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
Q
Quote
We had a set-up for a grand confrontation between the mystery of the alien and our favorite heroine, and the whole opportunity was wasted on Fox's cheap quick-profit
..But Weaver wanted Ripley to die and in fact it was a stipulation made by her that Ripley was to die in the film and it was in fact the only reason she got involved with Alien 3, that and the boatloads of money and being able to have the say on what should happen in the movie. so you kinda lost me here.

Fox was the one that never wanted her to die.

Quote
The whole "multiple spores from one egg" is a stretch
How? we're talking about a fictional Alien Race with acid for blood how is that anywhere close to a stretch?

Quote
Ripley is the core character, so killing her off is stupid.
While she may be the Core Character of several films she shouldn't be the core character of a whole Universe. and the idea of killing off a core character isn't stupid it depends on it's execution as anything does, if killing off a Core Character is needed to progress further in a Universe and explore other avenues than it can be done and probably should be done. otherwise if the very idea of killing off a character is bad Game Of Thrones couldn't exist.

Quote
I mean none of the mysteries of the Alien or the derelict were even addressed.  Even Ridley Scott was perplexed that nobody looked into that.
While I like the idea of exploring the SJs and Xenos I actually prefer their origins to not be explained much. because the Xenos represent the fear of the unknown telling us what they are and where they came from takes away that mystery, not to say they shouldn't touch on it especially in the case of the SJs. I just don't like having something explained to me that didn't need to be explained that's the main problems of the Prequel Series.

Yes, Weaver wanted her to die.  And that was dumb.  Youth has its poor decisions.  But the studio wanted to make a cheap film and cash in on the appeal of the first 2 films.  It was the blind leading the blind.  Now both the studio and Weaver, recognize the value of the franchise from a dollars and sense perspective, but also from a story perspective.

Yes, we are talking about a fictional creature.  This is an opinion thing.  If you prefer your aliens to have all sorts of surprise powers and abilities that have not been explored, that's fine.  But make a story out of it, rather than sheepishly saying, this kinda happened.  The whole beginning of Alien 3 is as if someone were embarrasingly setting a stage.  They're like, ok first this happened, then this happened, still with us?  Oh, and this kinda happened, whew.  Ok, now that we got the play pretend out of the way, here's our story.  The first 10 minutes were just 1 half-baked clustertruck after another.

If you couldn't kill off a main character, the Godfather wouldn't exist.  But you see, the Godfather also topped out at 3 films.  If you want a franchise with longevity, don't kill off the main character(s).  I'm not saying to shoehorn in the characters into every episode and every moment, but come on, we're talking about ONE FILM that continues Aliens in a different direction.  If its good, then it may have more sequels.  If not, then we have Prometheus stuff.

You know, exploring a mystery is not the same as solving it.  This is where Prometheus excelled.  Every question just led to more questions.  This could also have been the subject of Aliens 2.0.  But instead, the series went into the most unsatisfying direction I could imagine.  And don't get all holier than thou about the arc's integrity because there is no manifest destiny in the Aliens series.  Each successive writer just makes it up as they go along.  There's no map.  It's a journey not a destination.  So why not just give Blomkamp a chance to take things to a different place?


426Buddy
Jul 27, 2016, 08:59:16 PM
Reply #137 on: Jul 27, 2016, 08:59:16 PM
Q
Quote
We had a set-up for a grand confrontation between the mystery of the alien and our favorite heroine, and the whole opportunity was wasted on Fox's cheap quick-profit
..But Weaver wanted Ripley to die and in fact it was a stipulation made by her that Ripley was to die in the film and it was in fact the only reason she got involved with Alien 3, that and the boatloads of money and being able to have the say on what should happen in the movie. so you kinda lost me here.

Fox was the one that never wanted her to die.

Quote
The whole "multiple spores from one egg" is a stretch
How? we're talking about a fictional Alien Race with acid for blood how is that anywhere close to a stretch?

Quote
Ripley is the core character, so killing her off is stupid.
While she may be the Core Character of several films she shouldn't be the core character of a whole Universe. and the idea of killing off a core character isn't stupid it depends on it's execution as anything does, if killing off a Core Character is needed to progress further in a Universe and explore other avenues than it can be done and probably should be done. otherwise if the very idea of killing off a character is bad Game Of Thrones couldn't exist.

Quote
I mean none of the mysteries of the Alien or the derelict were even addressed.  Even Ridley Scott was perplexed that nobody looked into that.
While I like the idea of exploring the SJs and Xenos I actually prefer their origins to not be explained much. because the Xenos represent the fear of the unknown telling us what they are and where they came from takes away that mystery, not to say they shouldn't touch on it especially in the case of the SJs. I just don't like having something explained to me that didn't need to be explained that's the main problems of the Prequel Series.

Yes, Weaver wanted her to die.  And that was dumb.  Youth has its poor decisions.  But the studio wanted to make a cheap film and cash in on the appeal of the first 2 films.  It was the blind leading the blind.  Now both the studio and Weaver, recognize the value of the franchise from a dollars and sense perspective, but also from a story perspective.

At 50 million I dont think fox was interested in making the film cheap per se, that seems like a pretty big budget for the time, certainly not cheap. Fox always knew this series was valuable, in fact thats part of the reason it turned out the way it did, they were so afraid it wouldnt be good that they kept interfering.

Strange Shapes has some great articles detailing how the film came to be, no one was actively trying to make a qucik cheap film, all had the best intentions.


Elmazalman
Jul 27, 2016, 09:07:10 PM
Reply #138 on: Jul 27, 2016, 09:07:10 PM
Q












PS> Has there ever been a movie series like Alien & Aliens, where the sequel was so good that it actually divided the whole fanbase? It's amazing when you think about!


STAR WARS/THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.



HuDaFuK
Jul 27, 2016, 09:11:57 PM
Reply #139 on: Jul 27, 2016, 09:11:57 PM
Q
Yes, Weaver wanted her to die.  And that was dumb.  Youth has its poor decisions.

How was it dumb to want to do something unique with the character and stop it becoming a long, drawn-out franchise of diminishing returns?

Who's to say she hasn't now changed her mind simply because she's not making big bucks any more? That's basically what happened with Resurrection. Is reneging on your one-time ideals for a paycheck not dumb?

Yes, Weaver wanted her to die.  And that was dumb.  Youth has its poor decisions.  But the studio wanted to make a cheap film and cash in on the appeal of the first 2 films.

Alien 3 was anything but a cheap cash-in. They spent $13 million and 5 years developing it before they had even shot a single scene.

Yes, we are talking about a fictional creature.  This is an opinion thing.  If you prefer your aliens to have all sorts of surprise powers and abilities that have not been explored, that's fine.  But make a story out of it, rather than sheepishly saying, this kinda happened.

They did make a story out of it. It was a defender for the soon-to-be-born Queen. It makes no less sense than Cameron making the Queen to explain away so many eggs in Aliens.

If you want a franchise with longevity, don't kill off the main character(s).

Sure, who cares what the film's about as long as we can make a sequel!

Give me a break.


BishopShouldGo
Jul 27, 2016, 09:37:44 PM
Reply #140 on: Jul 27, 2016, 09:37:44 PM
Q
Lol diminishing returns. Alien and Aliens were two of the top ten grossing films in their respective years, and had 9 Oscar nominations total. Both while being R-rated horror films.

Whoever didn't tell Sigourney to shut up and let us handle the story, and back up an extra dump truck of money into her driveway, was being financially irresponsible.

And Alien 3 WAS a cheap cash-in. "We could piss on the wall and call it Alien 3 and we'd still do good business." Just because they spent a lot of wasted time and money on the project doesn't mean it wasn't a cash-in. They wasted time and money because they couldn't decide on a story, hence the whole script not being finished and sets never being used situations.

« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2016, 09:40:31 PM by BishopShouldGo »


Master
Jul 27, 2016, 09:54:16 PM
Reply #142 on: Jul 27, 2016, 09:54:16 PM
Q
Well I hope so. In this format anyway. If such thing is done I  lose my interest with franchise.


Mr. Clemens
Jul 27, 2016, 10:22:40 PM
Reply #143 on: Jul 27, 2016, 10:22:40 PM
Q
If you want a franchise with longevity, don't kill off the main character(s).

Sure, who cares what the film's about as long as we can make a sequel!

Give me a break.

Hee hee hee.  ;D

That's the thing, too: people are applying 21st century movie 'sense' to 20th century movies. When the first three Alien films came out, the word franchise didn't even apply to films. It was pretty much exclusively used in relation to fast food chain restaurants. The idea of 'we're makin' a film franchise here' was a foreign concept.

They made a movie. It was a hit. They decided to make a sequel. It was a hit, too. They decided to make another sequel. It did so-so. But each step of the way, they decided what they wanted to do for that particular film, and they did it, for better or worse. Accusing Alien3 of 'bad franchise-building' is, for lack of a better word, inappropriate.


System Apollo
Jul 27, 2016, 10:29:38 PM
Reply #144 on: Jul 27, 2016, 10:29:38 PM
Q
Quote
The fans always get the final word

This was said word for word by numerous fans when we were speculating Requiem.


windebieste
Jul 27, 2016, 10:40:28 PM
Reply #145 on: Jul 27, 2016, 10:40:28 PM
Q
Yeah, what g2vd said.

To give you an analogy that you may understand, it's like if we had Star Wars, and then Empire Strikes Back, and then at the beginning of Return of the Jedi, the main characters die in a silly accident at the Mos Eisley Cantina.

Also, that's not a particularly great analogy.

For starters, it wouldn't be like offing the main supporting cast of Star Wars because Hicks and Newt were never even in the first movie.

There's also the fact Star Wars is a hell of a lot lighter fare than Alien, a series that's ultimately about the harsh bleakness of space, not family, magic and cute cuddly Ewoks.

(And even if that did happen in Star Wars, I wouldn't care so long as it brought something to the story, which I'd argue Hicks and Newt being killed does, at least as far as Ripley's arc goes.)

I want the 'Force Awakens' retconned because Han Solo died and clearly Disney has no idea what they are doing with their first 'Star Wars' movie. 

He should come back in an 'alternate' Universe and be given the ending he deserves!  That will fix the obvious wrongness of 'Force Awakens' which is a bad movie because he died unfairly.  This heinous crime against the fans desperately needs to be corrected. 

RETCON 'STAR WARS' NOW!   BRING BACK Han Solo!  Even if it takes 30 years we can do it.   All we need is some fan boy Director to stand up for this cause and we got to first base...  Get Harrison Ford on board (wave a 10 figure fee under his nose) and we're at 2nd...  Circulate some photoshop images of Han Solo in bounty hunter garments online and whip up some hype in the 'Star Wars' fan Community where EVERYONE wants to see this happen and 3rd Base is covered.  C'mon, Disney, we need you on board to make the home run!

BRING BACK HAN SOLO
IN THE CORRECT AND DEFINITIVE 'ALTERNATE'
STAR WARS UNIVERSE NOW!

This will be the greatest Fan Service ever!  You KNOW you want it!  We'll even bring back, Greedo, some Bothans and all those cute Ewoks coz they all died unfairly, too!

THE R(ETCON)BEL ALLIANCE NEEDS YOU TO FIX THIS MISTAKE!*

-Windebieste.

*For those of you not sure, yes.  This is a parody, OK?  It's what this current 'ALIEN 5' Proposal sounds like from the outside.


BishopShouldGo
Jul 27, 2016, 11:13:33 PM
Reply #146 on: Jul 27, 2016, 11:13:33 PM
Q
The Force Awakens is a great film, with commercial success and critical acclaim. Its production was handled with care, from the scriptwriting stage to principle photography all the way to finalizing.

Nobody handled Alien 3 with care, obviously. It's the textbook example of a calamitous movie production. And it shows.

TFA and A3 are not remotely in the same league.


Beatnation
Jul 27, 2016, 11:18:50 PM
Reply #147 on: Jul 27, 2016, 11:18:50 PM
Q
TFA is just a rehash from episode 4 and the most overrated piece of crap that exist.



g2vd
Jul 27, 2016, 11:39:48 PM
Reply #149 on: Jul 27, 2016, 11:39:48 PM
Q
Quote
Lol diminishing returns. Alien and Aliens were two of the top ten grossing films in their respective years, and had 9 Oscar nominations total. Both while being R-rated horror films.
And so were Friday The 13th, Halloween and Nightmare On Elm Street (Minus the Oscars) and look what happened to them.

Quote
Yes, Weaver wanted her to die.  And that was dumb.  Youth has its poor decisions.
No, there's nothing dumb about it the direction they took was a perfectly viable and good one, the only problem here is you the problem isn't the idea it's you as you aren't happy with the perfectly viable direction they took.

Quote
But the studio wanted to make a cheap film
Yes, because we all know $50M is cheap film money.

No, it's not.


Quote
cash in on the appeal of the first 2 films.
...Isn't every sequel in some way a cash-in on the previous film? that's the definition right? I mean this film is going to be a cash in on Aliens after all because it's hitchhiking off Aliens.

Quote
Now both the studio and Weaver, recognize the value of the franchise from a dollars and sense perspective, but also from a story perspective.
Umn...umn..I think the studio and Weaver recognized all that from the beginning that's why you know Fox green lit Aliens, licensed the property to DarkHorse, made several Alien 3 Game Tie Ins, green lit Alien 3, constantly harassed Fincher all the way through the production...

I'm sorry what?! What?! WHAT?!


Quote
The whole beginning of Alien 3 is as if someone were embarrasingly setting a stage.  They're like, ok first this happened, then this happened, still with us?  Oh, and this kinda happened, whew.  Ok, now that we got the play pretend out of the way, here's our story.  The first 10 minutes were just 1 half-baked clustertruck after another.
To be fair you also have to remember the film had a very troubled production.

Quote
If you want a franchise with longevity, don't kill off the main character(s).
Yes, who cares about artistic integrity who cares about making a actually good product we gotta keep dragging these characters and actors back and through increasingly ridiculous scenarios.

Now while I would tend to agree with you on the idea of killing main characters most of the time as not done correctly it makes the adventure seem rather pointless and with all their struggles being in vain (Ex: See Hell On Wheels original fate for the Cullen character)

But like I already said before it all depends on execution,n Ripley's death was done well she managed to finally find peace, deny Wayland the Xenos and destroy the last of The Derelict Xenos thus avenging everybody that died and putting a end to that Xeno threat.

And the things I just said are all things that Weaver said to justify killing off Ripley among other things not mentioned.

Quote
You know, exploring a mystery is not the same as solving it.  This is where Prometheus excelled.  Every question just led to more questions.  This could also have been the subject of Aliens 2.0.
That's mainly the fault of the script and all.

Quote
Whoever didn't tell Sigourney to shut up and let us handle the story, and back up an extra dump truck of money into her driveway, was being financially irresponsible.
Yes, let's blow up the whole film's budget to force somebody who didn't want to be a part of the movie even after the first dump truck of money unless it went in that direction even more money! that'll clearly solve everything who cares if it means the budget must be slashed or if she's just phoning it in because she's not interested we got R I P L E Y!!!

The Janitors don't need to be paid for another two years after all.

Quote
They wasted time and money because they couldn't decide on a story, hence the whole script not being finished and sets never being used situations.
"of little worth because achieved in a discreditable way requiring little effort."

If they went through all the effort of trying to find the right script and unable to settle on the right idea and spending millions of dollars in hiring script writers and than building rather expensive sets and than not using them because they didn't fit the idea...I have to ask does that fit the definition?



 

Facebook Twitter Instagram Steam RSS Feed