Blomkamp's Alien 5 is "Innovative, Amazing, Performs Fan Service"

[Novak 1334]

Alien 3 is my favourite movie in the series, so I have defended it an awful lot.  The reason I'm against Blomkamp's movie is because of the whole Ripley/Hicks/Newt reprisals.  But simply from a story aspect.  Especially Ripley, her character is done, she had an arc, then a forced return which really didn't work.  So I want to see a new story.  That being said, if Blomkamp goes ahead with it, I'll still get behind the movie as a fan of the series, I have faith in him as a director.  And as for the retconning, I can always go back to Alien 3, it will still exist to me.  I'm not going to get bent out of shape if this movie 'corrects' Alien 3

[Nostromo]

Awww let me voice my opinions too in here. 

because Aliens represented the pinnacle of Science Fiction film achievement

...What about 2001, 2010, Star Wars, Star Trek, Alien, Blade Runner, Dune, Forbidden Planet, District 9, Total Recall, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, The Day The Earth Stood Still, Solaris, ET, Plan 9, Titan A.E, The Last Starfighter anything

Aliens is a absolutely fantastic movie but THE pinnacle of Space Sci-fi....yeah no.

Absolutely agree with the 2nd quote here, Aliens was really late to the game...by the way look at when the dropship is heading to LV-426...looks like crap honestly compared to Star Wars...which was made a decade earlier. I don't see a lot of effects in Aliens really. It's no pinnacle in Sci-fi achievement but it is a masterpiece and my 3rd or 4th favorite movie of all time! Alien and SW 4-5 are 1-2-3!

There were legions of people disappointed with Alien 3

There you go again with the gauging of the population with no numbers to support it. sure one can say that quite a lot of people didn't like Alien 3 when it first released which is true. but over time their opinions have softened on that movie and many have probably gone on to like the movie, once they let go of their preconceived notions on what Alien 3 should have been like and realized the quality of the actual movie.

I have to agree with the first quote here. Alien 3 is a historical sequel example of a bomb at the cinema. I remember the massive marketing that was everywhere when this film was coming out in '91 and than the reviews came in.

90% or probably more of anyone who's seen Alien 1-2-3 will agree it's the worst movie by far of the trilogy no matter how much some people may like it I can guarentee you these are facts.

To make a movie in a prison with a bunch of retarded hard core criminal morons as a cast (except for the 3-4 normal people who were great actors in the film!) which no one could give a shit if they died, when we've had 2 of the best ever casts put together in Alien and Aliens was it's first huge mistake. And than to have a full CGI skinny little runner Alien running around after we've had the original (and best) in Alien followed by some crazy ass Aliens and a queen (not that I like the queen, most people do though) was another fatal mistake.

3rd was the location, Fiorina 161 is a beautiful exo planet when it was shown, for a full 25 seconds...The rest of the location made you feel like you were on some rotten rusted old dump on Earth. Half the terror is gone right there.

Yes I've seen the special extended version but it adds about 10% to the satisfaction level for me. The trio of important makings of a great Alien film were still not there, Alien terror, Location and Cast. It added some really nice Alien shots I have to admit, but that's where it ends. That scene under the stairs was nice too.

and that is why nobody really has any high expectations from alien films anymore.  Blomkamp's idea represents a means to set things right.

I think those people are more distraught over the quality of the AVP films than they are A3.

Thank God most regular people have forgotten about A3, 4 and the AVP's. There is a HUGE demand these days for Sci-Fi and that demand will continue to climb for at least the next 10 if not 100 years. If they market it well and it gets great reviews 500 - 800 million + in worlwide sales at the box office is possible. Even a billion is possible if the reviews are in the 8.5-9/10 range.

[The Alien Predator]

I've never understood 'fanboy' as an insult

I have, but I've only seen it used as an insult to people who are a fan of something and don't admit its flaws when they're pointed out.
I completely embrace the fact that I'm an Aliens fanboy, and that's why I'm for Blomkamps film.

I'd be fine if it took place with completely different characters and still had the USCM, the movie would probably be getting less flak from people here if that were the case. I do think Hicks and Newt were killed off very unceremoniously, and it should have been done better, but I don't need them back.
I also don't need Ripley back. I liked Ripley in Alien and Aliens, but I don't need her back. I'd like the torch to be passed to other characters, and have a movie that's kind of a "spiritual" successor to Aliens.

See what my problem is?

I am completely FINE with another Aliens film, Blomkamp should go right ahead. Some of his concept artwork was awesome such as the derelict in a warehouse being experimented on, that monolith structure, that Colonial Marine wearing a very cool looking and armoured suit and even those Xenomorphs being remote controlled.

The problem is - Ripley, Hicks, Newt.

The problems aren't Blomkamp, his other ideas for the film, or the fact that it has Aliens and Colonial Marines. Sometimes when I watch Aliens, I find myself really wishing they'd make another movie featuring the Marines. I love them. Even just a freaking spin off just of the CM lol. But I value the timeline and keeping a history, so bringing back dead characters spits all over that. Removing those three characters and introducing new ones to flesh out also enriches and enlarges the Alien universe rather than limits it.

You are right, the movie would be getting far less flack if those three characters weren't to be featured. Blomkamp's original idea already wasn't going to feature them anyway until Weaver convinced him somehow to add them. But Weaver's an actress, she doesn't really care for the timeline and consistency, it's all about appearing in another film especially one she's already very famous for.

Seriously, if he'd ditch those three, we'd all win, even Perfect Organism would be perfectly happy just to have another Aliens style film with Colonial Marines and new characters who are relatable to the original ones and fit in with but also ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection without undoing them from the timeline.

[Perfect-Organism]

I've never understood 'fanboy' as an insult

You know what, I'd be totally fine with dropping the whole fanboy bit.  I've heard it so many times on this forum where people say Aliens fanboy, or Hix and Noot fanboy, Fanboy script, etc, and that's where my Alien 3 fanboy reference came from.

It's not a nice phrase.  It implies that whoever this is aimed at is somehow immature.  We are all fans on here.  Otherwise, why bother coming to this site at all?

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

[It's not a nice phrase.  It implies that whoever this is aimed at is somehow immature.  We are all fans on here.  Otherwise, why bother coming to this site at all?

I don't see it as something infringing on one's maturity level rather than how biased one is when it comes certain movies of the franchise.

Fanboy = Highly partisan / Biased.

I'm not going to pretend I'm not an A3 fanboy, because I am. I love that movie and personally think it's on par with ALIEN, albeit the two have completely different qualities. As ALIENS is a very different type of movie compared to ALIEN and A3 I simply don't like it that much even though I appreciate it's technical qualities and designs.

Just because a person is a fanboy it doesn't mean that you have to give into your fanboyism all the time. The idea to rather retcon a certain movie just because you don't like and because it killed off characters that you like rather than going with a natural sequel (i.e. take off from where the last edition/movie ended) IS fanboyism. To jumble and butcher everything already established just to get some revenge and to avenge your favorite movie IS fanboyism.

Like I said, imagine some director who thinks that ALIENS is hollywood sci-fi action trash would try to retcon ALIENS and find a more "favorable" story to bridge between ALIEN and A3 that didn't include Cameron's fun jive cardboard Marines, sappy Hollywood moments (Newt, Ripley, Hicks), boss fights (Powerloader vs. Queen), cannon fodder alien shooting galleries etc. and instead wen't for something more similar to ALIEN and A3? Not that it would ever happen, but let's say it did - you guys would freak out, and rightly so, because that would be blatant A3 fanboyism.

See what I'm getting at?

A:R opened up for endless new storylines, narratives and concepts - but for some reason we're still stuck with Ellen Ripley (not Ripley 8 ), Hicks, Newt and Colonial Marines... And even so - nothing says that we can't have the Colonial Marines in the world presented in A:R - maybe the leftover Colonial Marines is now a mercenary contractor business, maybe they are a branch of the Military? No Derelict on Acheron doesn't mean much as Prometheus opened up for the possibility of Engineer derelicts elsewhere. Sure, W&Y merged (?) with Wall-Mart, but that doesn't mean that it has to stay that way, or maybe some other mega-corporation can take their place as the Evil Empire? I mean, that is if you necessarily have to follow the formula given to us by Cameron in ALIENS.

Just because you didn't like A:R doesn't mean that the sequel has to be in the same vein as A:R. It's as if people think that making a sequel to A:R you will have to follow the tone and style of Jeunet and Whedon, when in reality you don't.

[Perfect-Organism]

[It's not a nice phrase.  It implies that whoever this is aimed at is somehow immature.  We are all fans on here.  Otherwise, why bother coming to this site at all?

I don't see it as something infringing on one's maturity level rather than how biased one is when it comes certain movies of the franchise.

Fanboy = Highly partisan / Biased.

I'm not going to pretend I'm not an A3 fanboy, because I am. I love that movie and personally think it's on par with ALIEN, albeit the two have completely different qualities. As ALIENS is a very different type of movie compared to ALIEN and A3 I simply don't like it that much even though I appreciate it's technical qualities and designs.

Just because a person is a fanboy it doesn't mean that you have to give into your fanboyism all the time. The idea to rather retcon a certain movie just because you don't like and because it killed off characters that you like rather than going with a natural sequel (i.e. take off from where the last edition/movie ended) IS fanboyism. To jumble and butcher everything already established just to get some revenge and to avenge your favorite movie IS fanboyism.

Like I said, imagine some director who thinks that ALIENS is hollywood sci-fi action trash would try to retcon ALIENS and find a more "favorable" story to bridge between ALIEN and A3 that didn't include Cameron's fun jive cardboard Marines, sappy Hollywood moments (Newt, Ripley, Hicks), boss fights (Powerloader vs. Queen), cannon fodder alien shooting galleries etc. and instead wen't for something more similar to ALIEN and A3? Not that it would ever happen, but let's say it did - you guys would freak out, and rightly so, because that would be blatant A3 fanboyism.

See what I'm getting at?

A:R opened up for endless new storylines, narratives and concepts - but for some reason we're still stuck with Ellen Ripley (not Ripley 8 ), Hicks, Newt and Colonial Marines... And even so - nothing says that we can't have the Colonial Marines in the world presented in A:R - maybe the leftover Colonial Marines is now a mercenary contractor business, maybe they are a branch of the Military? No Derelict on Acheron doesn't mean much as Prometheus opened up for the possibility of Engineer derelicts elsewhere. Sure, W&Y merged (?) with Wall-Mart, but that doesn't mean that it has to stay that way, or maybe some other mega-corporation can take their place as the Evil Empire? I mean, that is if you necessarily have to follow the formula given to us by Cameron in ALIENS.

Just because you didn't like A:R doesn't mean that the sequel has to be in the same vein as A:R. It's as if people think that making a sequel to A:R you will have to follow the tone and style of Jeunet and Whedon, when in reality you don't.

You're ignoring that word fanboy has the word boy in it.  That is where the immaturity implication comes from.  It basically means that you think whoever you assign that term to, for a certain thing they do, is on the level of a child.  So what you said above, where you say that because I want Alien 3 retconned is fanboyism, you are effectively calling that idea childish.  It is an insult.  Absolutely.  You would feel the same way if I said that the people who don't want the retcon are nothing but Alien 3 fanboys.  That is effectively what I said and its how we find ourselves in this polemic.  Anyway, I probably shouldn't have said it as I have absolutely no interest in insulting fellow fans, but I am trying to show the other side of the equation.  It's not ok to call people who want the retcon fanboys.  You're implying that the person is a child.  (I presume that there shouldn't be any children on this forum considering it is about a mostly adult films, but I may be wrong)

Also Aliens is revered as one of the best sci-fi films of all time.  Alien 3 is no where near that sort of level.  The idea of retconning Aliens instead of Alien 3 is really an apples and oranges comparison don't you think?  I mean I see your point, but the calibre of the films is just so much different.

I stand by my assertion that Aliens was the pinnacle of sci-fi films at the time.  The overall look of the film really set the tone for what sci-fi would be for decades to come.  The other films like 2001, ET, Star Wars, also shared that sort of place in the annals of sci-fi, but when Aliens came out, it made them "look" dated.  Overnight, there was a sea change in the look of sci-fi that was brought on by Aliens.  I see the notion of "pinnacle" as an evolving thing.  It's zeitgeist.  The look of Aliens was overtaken by other sci-fi films over time, but it still largely resonates.  I would say that it has become such a huge influence, that directors are in a position where they are rebelling to find a different look.  Anyway, I know that there will be those that disagree.  That's fine.  It's common these days to rebel against the look of Aliens.

[g2vd]

I mean I see your point, but the calibre of the films is just so much different.

Tell that to Paul Feig or any other Director, Producer, Board and Company that's rebooted and retconned a classic with not a care in the world.

Alien 3 is no where near that sort of level. The idea of retconning Aliens instead of Alien 3 is really an apples and oranges comparison don't you think?

But the main problem with that is yes, A3 may not have been as good as Aliens but just because a "Above-Average" film doesn't reach the same heights as it's predecessor doesn't mean it should be removed from canon.

Other wise going by that than Aliens 2 probably should be removed as well once it comes out as I doubt it will be as good as Aliens, because despite Blomkamp being a good and well meaning director his last two efforts have been...pretty blah especially Elysium which was terrible and had definitely the worst action scenes of 2011 and the most cheesy villain since Godzilla: Final Wars.

[Local Trouble]

I've said before that they could easily make a sequel to AR and reveal that the USM was actually a neo-communist rival to the corporatist nations of Earth, much like the UPP from William Gibson's Alien 3 script.  I mean, just look at their patch...



It's all about the red star, Comrades.

The "fall" of Weyland-Yutani could have been nothing more than propaganda.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

I don't see it as something infringing on one's maturity level rather than how biased one is when it comes certain movies of the franchise.

Fanboy = Highly partisan / Biased.

I'm not going to pretend I'm not an A3 fanboy, because I am. I love that movie and personally think it's on par with ALIEN, albeit the two have completely different qualities. As ALIENS is a very different type of movie compared to ALIEN and A3 I simply don't like it that much even though I appreciate it's technical qualities and designs.

Just because a person is a fanboy it doesn't mean that you have to give into your fanboyism all the time. The idea to rather retcon a certain movie just because you don't like and because it killed off characters that you like rather than going with a natural sequel (i.e. take off from where the last edition/movie ended) IS fanboyism. To jumble and butcher everything already established just to get some revenge and to avenge your favorite movie IS fanboyism.

Like I said, imagine some director who thinks that ALIENS is hollywood sci-fi action trash would try to retcon ALIENS and find a more "favorable" story to bridge between ALIEN and A3 that didn't include Cameron's fun jive cardboard Marines, sappy Hollywood moments (Newt, Ripley, Hicks), boss fights (Powerloader vs. Queen), cannon fodder alien shooting galleries etc. and instead wen't for something more similar to ALIEN and A3? Not that it would ever happen, but let's say it did - you guys would freak out, and rightly so, because that would be blatant A3 fanboyism.

See what I'm getting at?

A:R opened up for endless new storylines, narratives and concepts - but for some reason we're still stuck with Ellen Ripley (not Ripley 8 ), Hicks, Newt and Colonial Marines... And even so - nothing says that we can't have the Colonial Marines in the world presented in A:R - maybe the leftover Colonial Marines is now a mercenary contractor business, maybe they are a branch of the Military? No Derelict on Acheron doesn't mean much as Prometheus opened up for the possibility of Engineer derelicts elsewhere. Sure, W&Y merged (?) with Wall-Mart, but that doesn't mean that it has to stay that way, or maybe some other mega-corporation can take their place as the Evil Empire? I mean, that is if you necessarily have to follow the formula given to us by Cameron in ALIENS.

Just because you didn't like A:R doesn't mean that the sequel has to be in the same vein as A:R. It's as if people think that making a sequel to A:R you will have to follow the tone and style of Jeunet and Whedon, when in reality you don't.

You're ignoring that word fanboy has the word boy in it.  That is where the immaturity implication comes from.  It basically means that you think whoever you assign that term to, for a certain thing they do, is on the level of a child.  So what you said above, where you say that because I want Alien 3 retconned is fanboyism, you are effectively calling that idea childish.  It is an insult.  Absolutely.

Ok, I never really thought of the 'boy'-part of the word "fanboy" to be taken that literal (hence why I referred to myself as an A3 fanboy at times) - it could might as well be called fanster, fanhead, fantist etc. Yes, it (fanboy) is sort of a mild insult and it does harp on the fact that you, as a hardcore fan, is somewhat blinded by fandom, which, in a way, is kind of childish.

I had no idea that people took it so literally though. I guess I'll have to watch my tongue next time.

You would feel the same way if I said that the people who don't want the retcon are nothing but Alien 3 fanboys.  That is effectively what I said and its how we find ourselves in this polemic.  Anyway, I probably shouldn't have said it as I have absolutely no interest in insulting fellow fans, but I am trying to show the other side of the equation.  It's not ok to call people who want the retcon fanboys.  You're implying that the person is a child.  (I presume that there shouldn't be any children on this forum considering it is about a mostly adult films, but I may be wrong)

That is a false equivalency - it's not even comparable as we're NOT talking about ALIENS fans vs. A3 fans who are both promoting to retcon each others' favorite movie. We are talking about one group of fans of one of the movies holding a grudge against another movie in the series and want to delete/erase it, and now is their chance, whereas the fans of the endangered movie of course will speak up. It's a one-way street - it doesn't go both ways. It becomes even more obvious when the pro-retcon people would rather retcon the movie they hold a grudge against rather than going the easy way, the obvious and natural way of a series, which is going for a sequel taking place after the latest edition to the series.

Also Aliens is revered as one of the best sci-fi films of all time.  Alien 3 is no where near that sort of level.  The idea of retconning Aliens instead of Alien 3 is really an apples and oranges comparison don't you think?  I mean I see your point, but the calibre of the films is just so much different.

ALIENS has amazing designs, great visual concepts and excels in practical movie magic - in that department it deserves all the cred it has gotten and then some. A3 on the other hand is a daring movie on all levels that works with a way more complex, demanding and deeper meta-narrative, story composure and character dimensions than compared to most other movies in the genre. In other words, to me ALIENS is a technical marvel whereas A3 is a substantial wonder (and I call it a wonder because it prevailed despite the troubled production). So in a way it's apples and oranges, just like you said. And just like with apples and oranges some people prefer apples over oranges and vice versa. That doesn't give the apple guys the right throw out the oranges from the fruit basket to make room for more apples, right?

I stand by my assertion that Aliens was the pinnacle of sci-fi films at the time.  The overall look of the film really set the tone for what sci-fi would be for decades to come.  The other films like 2001, ET, Star Wars, also shared that sort of place in the annals of sci-fi, but when Aliens came out, it made them "look" dated.  Overnight, there was a sea change in the look of sci-fi that was brought on by Aliens.

Like I said - there is nothing wrong with the way ALIENS look. On the contrary! I do understand why it so influential and I would never claim otherwise.

I see the notion of "pinnacle" as an evolving thing.  It's zeitgeist.  The look of Aliens was overtaken by other sci-fi films over time, but it still largely resonates.  I would say that it has become such a huge influence, that directors are in a position where they are rebelling to find a different look.  Anyway, I know that there will be those that disagree.  That's fine.  It's common these days to rebel against the look of Aliens.

I don't think anyone's rebelling here rather than trying to put their own imprint on the movies, which is totally understandable. After all, Cameron didn't invent the Alien movies, even though a lot of ALIENS fans sound like that's the case sometimes.

I've said before that they could easily make a sequel to AR and reveal that the USM was actually a neo-communist rival to the corporatist nations of Earth, much like the UPP from William Gibson's Alien 3 script.  I mean, just look at their patch...

http://i66.tinypic.com/2q8aszq.jpg

It's all about the red star, Comrades.

Nice one, Local Trouble!

[BishopShouldGo]

Lol. Amazing. Aliens simply is one of the most revered sci-fi films of all time. That's fine if you don't think so, and that's fine if you love Alien 3, but your opinion doesn't detract from that. I hate Blazing Saddles, but I'm aware that it's one of the most revered comedies of all time! So in this case, the majority of the people love the apples and dislike the oranges, so to stock up on more apples and forgo the oranges makes sense.

And Cameron didn't invent the Alien movies, but he sure as hell expanded the universe and made one of the only two Alien films of quality. 50% of the good Alien films come from Cameron.

But yeah, no one's gonna miss Alien 3 or Alien: Resurrection when they get the boot. Neill's got some nice shiny apples to look at, but will they taste good? Likely! I'm willing to chuck the oranges to find out!

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Lol. Amazing. Aliens simply is one of the most revered sci-fi films of all time. That's fine if you don't think so, and that's fine if you love Alien 3, but your opinion doesn't detract from that. I hate Blazing Saddles, but I'm aware that it's one of the most revered comedies of all time! So in this case, the majority of the people love the apples and dislike the oranges, so to stock up on more apples and forgo the oranges makes sense.

Well, there are enough people liking oranges to make it a really childish and shitty thing to do. Just because a franchise movie is hyped it doesn't mean that it must dictate the future of every sequel to come. So no, it doesn't make sense on any level, especially since A:R already has plenty of openings for new sequels to be made! It's just plain silly to pretend that retconning A3 is the logical thing to do.

And Cameron didn't invent the Alien movies, but he sure as hell expanded the universe and made one of the only two Alien films of quality. 50% of the good Alien films come from Cameron.

It's comments like these that makes it so easy to call ALIENS fans "fanboys".

But yeah, no one's gonna miss Alien 3 or Alien: Resurrection when they get the boot. Neill's got some nice shiny apples to look at, but will they taste good? Likely! I'm willing to chuck the oranges to find out!

Yeah, yeah, I get it - you're Mr. Teasy Nah Nah Funny Pants.

[The Alien Predator]

Wow, BishopShouldGo, you once asked me if I was insane in my response to you showing my displeasure with Blomkamp's idea.

Looks like you are CRAZY for Aliens. 

And yes, there'll be plenty of people who will miss Alien 3 and Resurrection, and I'll be among them.

I bet if Steven Spielberg came out and said "hey guys, ALIENS sucked because it was too different from ALIEN and it also made RIpley too out of character. I'mma retcon the shit out of it." You, Perfect Organism and many other ALIENS fans who are pro-retcon would be singing a vastly different tune. 

[windebieste]

What have apples and oranges got to do with it.  Is Blomkamp making a movie about fruit, now? 

By the admission of certain people, half of the 'ALIEN' movies starring Sigourney Weaver suck.  On the basis of this statistic, let's flip a coin. 

Which side of the line will a retcon featuring a 70 year old Sigourney Weaver portraying a deceased character with nothing new to add do you think the coin is going land?

-Windebieste

[Kurai]

Don't throw out the oranges! Scurvy is a thing y'know!!! 

Apples only contain 14% Vitamin C, not enough to properly digest. Oranges contain 85%!

There's a reason that there has to be a balance in our diets and that's why chucking Oranges out is foolish and disasterous.

Thus there should be no retcon.

[Perfect-Organism]

Wow, BishopShouldGo, you once asked me if I was insane in my response to you showing my displeasure with Blomkamp's idea.

Looks like you are CRAZY for Aliens. 

And yes, there'll be plenty of people who will miss Alien 3 and Resurrection, and I'll be among them.

I bet if Steven Spielberg came out and said "hey guys, ALIENS sucked because it was too different from ALIEN and it also made RIpley too out of character. I'mma retcon the shit out of it." You, Perfect Organism and many other ALIENS fans who are pro-retcon would be singing a vastly different tune. 

What you just said is nowhere even near reality.  The reason nobody will ever retcon, much less want to retcon Aliens, is because IT IS ONE OF THE BEST SCIENCE FICTION FILMS EVER MADE!

Another thing that seems to be forgotten, is that nobody is coming to take your A3 and A:R Blu-ray Discs.  You get to keep those forever.  What you're fighting over is which imaginary story is true.  None of these stories is true, so any notion of canon is in your head.  It's fiction bro!  Your Alien 3 and A:R will be just as real after Blomkamp makes his film as they are now.  Why not let the guy make his film and see where it goes.  You know you just might love it..