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Author Topic: Alien: Covenant will take place ten years after Pr...  (Read 17631 times)

NickisSmart
Jan 01, 2016, 05:09:12 PM
Reply #30 on: Jan 01, 2016, 05:09:12 PM
Nice.  More importantly, though, no one in Hollywood gives a shit if you're math was right or not.  Remember... the Narcissus took 57 years to 'float through the core systems' and you can bet Cameron wasn't too interested in whether the shuttle had FTL or not to tell his story.  Presumably, it lacks that function. 

After all, it took Voyager 36 years to enter interstellar space... it's a long haul between the Solar System's outer edge and the next stop without the luxury of FTL no matter how you add the figures up. 

Either way, 'ALIEN' depicts a fair fictional representation of space travel.  It is hard, awkward, uncomfortable, costly, dangerous and lonely.   I think that's more important in terms of telling a story than getting the math right. 

Unless it's non-fiction, accuracy be damned, I say.   Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.  ;)

-Windebieste.

Well said. Accuracy can get in the way of telling a good story.


Primordial
Jan 01, 2016, 05:13:21 PM
Reply #31 on: Jan 01, 2016, 05:13:21 PM
Time dilation affects those who are traveling at relativistic speeds.  In fact traveling at 90% the speed of light only yields a ratio of 0.436 : 1

So for every year that passes to the stationary observer, the crew of the ship experiences about 159 days.  Time is definitely slowed down, but not by that much.  Things start getting interesting if you can approach 99.9% the speed of light. 

If Covenant takes place 10 years after Prometheus, we are looking at a date of 2103?

Assuming (for fun) the ship was launched in 2030 with sub FTL, but could travel at 99.9% of the speed of light.  The time dilation ratio is 0.045 to 1

1) The planet they land on is about 80LY from earth

2) 80yr x 365 days = 29,200 days as observed from earth

3) It would take 3.7 years accelerating at 1g to hit 99.9% the speed of light, and the same in amount of time to decelerate to a stop.  The ship would travel 20.7LY during the acceleration, and 20.7LY during the deceleration.  38.6LY would be spent traveling at the .045 time dilation.

3) 38.6 years = 14,089 days x .045 = 634 days (or 1.7 yrs) pass to the people on the Covenant.

4) 3.7 + 1.7 +3.7 = 9.1 years pass to the crew members of the Covenant on flight of 80LY, traveling at 99.9% the speed of light, and accelerating/decelerating at 1g.

:)  Watch my math be totally wrong

This kind of post treating science is often a pleasure to read. Clear and concise.
It shows the necessity of having cryosleep for such ships. It also indicates a trip from Earth to LV-426 wouldn't even reach the 99,9% of speed of light that it would start to decelerate.

Quote
Obviously "half a billion" rolls off the tongue better than 2.0574749335x10^14th

Yes... and that emphasis was made on her being far away from Earth. In Paradise's final script, it's writen "half a billion sodding miles". It doesn't bother me from Vickers.
If Holloway and Shaw announced this figure during their pre-landing presentation in a serious manner, then that would be really disturbing.


The Alien Predator
Jan 01, 2016, 05:16:25 PM
Reply #32 on: Jan 01, 2016, 05:16:25 PM
@Guan Thwei 1992:
If Star Wars taught us nothing else, It taught us this: If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen. Novels don't count.

This isn't Star Wars.

Doesn't matter. The lesson is universal. EU doesn't count. When film makers draw upon it, that's a bonus. But film makers are rarely bound by it. And rights holders can declare it null and void any time they like. Now, if Alien were based on a novel, like the tale of a certain annoying British wizard boy or a certain girl with a bow and arrow, the dynamics between book and movie might be a little different. But these Rage War novels don't matter a hill of beans to what we're ever going to see on the screen. Bitter pill, but that's the way it goes.

I thought I'd share some examples of advancement within the EU regardless as it showed some things I felt were close to what you were describing earlier that you wanted to see on film.  :)


TheBATMAN
Jan 01, 2016, 06:10:47 PM
Reply #33 on: Jan 01, 2016, 06:10:47 PM
Whilst I see your point, I don't agree with this case. Fire and Stone was edited heavily so as to not conflict with whatever the plans were for Prometheus 2 at the time. Likewise Lebbon had to edit his completed manuscript for Predator Incursion following the Alien 5 announcement. For the time being anyway, Fox seem to be going to a concerted effort with this rebooted canon, and the new novels are a big part of that.

Having said all that,  Ridley Scott has always been his own man and I wouldn't put it past him to disregard anything he doesn't like.


XenoHunter99
Jan 01, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
Reply #34 on: Jan 01, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
@Guan Thwei 1992:
If Star Wars taught us nothing else, It taught us this: If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen. Novels don't count.

This isn't Star Wars.

Doesn't matter. The lesson is universal. EU doesn't count. When film makers draw upon it, that's a bonus. But film makers are rarely bound by it. And rights holders can declare it null and void any time they like. Now, if Alien were based on a novel, like the tale of a certain annoying British wizard boy or a certain girl with a bow and arrow, the dynamics between book and movie might be a little different. But these Rage War novels don't matter a hill of beans to what we're ever going to see on the screen. Bitter pill, but that's the way it goes.

I thought I'd share some examples of advancement within the EU regardless as it showed some things I felt were close to what you were describing earlier that you wanted to see on film.  :)
Yes, and that part is really cool! My bad for failing to mention it. :)


Liberator
Jan 01, 2016, 07:04:20 PM
Reply #35 on: Jan 01, 2016, 07:04:20 PM
The costume d the engineer delivers for being intimidating.


The Alien Predator
Jan 01, 2016, 08:16:28 PM
Reply #36 on: Jan 01, 2016, 08:16:28 PM
@Guan Thwei 1992:
If Star Wars taught us nothing else, It taught us this: If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen. Novels don't count.

This isn't Star Wars.

Doesn't matter. The lesson is universal. EU doesn't count. When film makers draw upon it, that's a bonus. But film makers are rarely bound by it. And rights holders can declare it null and void any time they like. Now, if Alien were based on a novel, like the tale of a certain annoying British wizard boy or a certain girl with a bow and arrow, the dynamics between book and movie might be a little different. But these Rage War novels don't matter a hill of beans to what we're ever going to see on the screen. Bitter pill, but that's the way it goes.

I thought I'd share some examples of advancement within the EU regardless as it showed some things I felt were close to what you were describing earlier that you wanted to see on film.  :)
Yes, and that part is really cool! My bad for failing to mention it. :)

It's alright.  ;D

I understand why you made your point though, you are correct, war does drive technological innovations, lots of things were discovered during our past major wars. The Cold War for instance landed a man on the moon due to the competition of world super powers.

So logically, the Marines should have some really powerful gear. I remember reading on the wiki (I know it's not reliable, but this was an interesting point) that the Marines are given outdated equipment by the United Americas, I'm not sure if that was mentioned in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual. But if this is true, it should be incorporated into any future films to explain why the Marines had what they had and other armies back home have better equipment to cut costs etc.


CainsSon
Jan 02, 2016, 05:28:53 AM
Reply #37 on: Jan 02, 2016, 05:28:53 AM
The Covenant might have left earth much longer than 10 years ago. The events of Prometheus wouldn't necessarily have had any influence on the colony ship's date of departure. Perhaps they stumbled upon the planet or David radioed them an invite when he saw they were in the vicinity.

Well it's probably just a Yutani ship init?

I really hope the Yutani and Weyland merger doesn't have anything to do with the Alien. Its just unnecessary and convenient to tie things together so much. I hate when they do crap like that in prequels.

Whilst I see your point, I don't agree with this case. Fire and Stone was edited heavily so as to not conflict with whatever the plans were for Prometheus 2 at the time. Likewise Lebbon had to edit his completed manuscript for Predator Incursion following the Alien 5 announcement. For the time being anyway, Fox seem to be going to a concerted effort with this rebooted canon, and the new novels are a big part of that.

Having said all that,  Ridley Scott has always been his own man and I wouldn't put it past him to disregard anything he doesn't like.

I understand why you say what you are saying here, but I think you are reading too much into Fox's motives for making the writers of FIRE AND STONE stay away from any content that would conflict with the Prometheus sequel. It doesn't mean they want the F&S story to remain canonical, per se. It simply means that they don't want any aspects of the P2 script revealed in the comics, ahead of time. It also further reinforces them from legal and payroll disputes over the ideas presented, should different writers come up with the same ideas twice.
The fact that Fox made the writers of the comics change things, so as not to give away aspects of Prometheus 2, doesn't mean they did so so they can keep the EU canonical. I'm sure, in their minds that may be an added bonus, especially and only if fans respond well to the EU materials in question, but the de-facto reason is just a formality. They don't want things, they want the film to reveal, to be revealed before hand. Its really that simple and it is completely driven by the fact that the financial root is still, and is always, the films dictating what is canonical, without complicated cross pollination.
The exception here may be Alien Isolation, but I would almost guarantee that the exception proves the rule in this case, because I wouldn't put it passed FOX to consider adapting that game into a film someday, but only based on how well received it was. In contrast, I'm pretty certain we wont see or hear any mention of a Colonial Marines adaptation based on how poorly that game was received. Heh.
LSS The films are the raw material. Everything else, from the studio's perspective is cross-pollination and is, for better or worse, secondary.

« Last Edit: Jan 02, 2016, 05:49:24 AM by CainsSon »

TheBATMAN
Jan 03, 2016, 02:38:19 PM
Reply #38 on: Jan 03, 2016, 02:38:19 PM
I understand why you say what you are saying here, but I think you are reading too much into Fox's motives for making the writers of FIRE AND STONE stay away from any content that would conflict with the Prometheus sequel. It doesn't mean they want the F&S story to remain canonical, per se. It simply means that they don't want any aspects of the P2 script revealed in the comics, ahead of time. It also further reinforces them from legal and payroll disputes over the ideas presented, should different writers come up with the same ideas twice.
The fact that Fox made the writers of the comics change things, so as not to give away aspects of Prometheus 2, doesn't mean they did so so they can keep the EU canonical. I'm sure, in their minds that may be an added bonus, especially and only if fans respond well to the EU materials in question, but the de-facto reason is just a formality. They don't want things, they want the film to reveal, to be revealed before hand. Its really that simple and it is completely driven by the fact that the financial root is still, and is always, the films dictating what is canonical, without complicated cross pollination.
The exception here may be Alien Isolation, but I would almost guarantee that the exception proves the rule in this case, because I wouldn't put it passed FOX to consider adapting that game into a film someday, but only based on how well received it was. In contrast, I'm pretty certain we wont see or hear any mention of a Colonial Marines adaptation based on how poorly that game was received. Heh.
LSS The films are the raw material. Everything else, from the studio's perspective is cross-pollination and is, for better or worse, secondary.

I think that may have been true, but that could easily have been stipulated when the comics were still in the initial writer's room phase. The fact that the entire first issue of the comic had to be scrapped after it had already been finished would suggest this was done to keep Fire and Stone canon, as well as elements of Prometheus 2 under wraps. The fact we now know Alien Covenant is set 10 years after Prometheus 2 probably explains why the timeframe of Prometheus Fire and Stone was suddenly put back 100 years. But the better evidence here is Lebbon's forced revision of Predator Incursion. That manuscript was already delivered to the publishers when he made those changes. We don't know what those changes were exactly other than it was something to do with Alien 5.

Normally I would agree with you, but reading the Weyland-Yutani Report has completely changed my thinking on the Alien universe. Such a large effort has been made to weave everything together in such a way that it all makes sense. It's the perfect sourcebook and why I believe strongly that this new canon is all that matters anymore and the likes of AVP, Requiem and the old EU are long gone. All I can do to stress this point is urge people to get their hands on a copy and read it. Of course the films are absolute at the end of the day and stories like Out of the Shadows will not have much bearing on things going forward, but it's nice to know they actually happened.


Space7Horror
Jan 03, 2016, 06:24:21 PM
Reply #39 on: Jan 03, 2016, 06:24:21 PM
I wonder how the film will handle technology, the Alien films are far into the furture and the technology in promethues was far more advanced in some aspects.  An exuse for that would be the fact that the ship was very expensives and owned by Weyland himself, but now we are getting a new ship. Im curious to see what it looks like and if it is similar to ships seen in the orginal films along with the tech used.


Corporal Hicks
Jan 04, 2016, 09:50:40 AM
Reply #40 on: Jan 04, 2016, 09:50:40 AM
Such a large effort has been made to weave everything together in such a way that it all makes sense.

It certainly seems to be that Fox is trying to handle the new EU with more interest and care than they have done before.


Hellspawn28
Jan 04, 2016, 08:48:47 PM
Reply #41 on: Jan 04, 2016, 08:48:47 PM
So if it's set a decade later then are we ever going to find out on what happen at the end of the first movie. They did left the Planet with the Deacon being born at the end of the movie.


Liberator
Jan 05, 2016, 12:47:26 AM
Reply #42 on: Jan 05, 2016, 12:47:26 AM
The technology will be a lot like we saw in Prometheus.  One of the unique aspects to it, which I found intriguing, was the use of musical tones that issued commands.  It conveyed a very light touch, and I imagine the engineers' home world as a place where a certain harmony exists, grown eerie and threatening by misuse.  I hope they flesh out this side of the engineers, who on the one hand are portrayed as very destructive in their efforts to create ("Sometimes in order to create, we must first destroy."), they also should on the other hand appreciate their creations, knowing how fragile they are.


Corporal Hicks
Jan 05, 2016, 09:06:06 AM
Reply #43 on: Jan 05, 2016, 09:06:06 AM
So if it's set a decade later then are we ever going to find out on what happen at the end of the first movie. They did left the Planet with the Deacon being born at the end of the movie.

That's another question, I think. On the face of it, it would look like Covenant is going to try and distance itself from Prometheus. How much that comes through in the narrative will be interesting to see.


Hellspawn28
Jan 05, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
Reply #44 on: Jan 05, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
I always hate if they are going to ignore on what happen last time if they are not going to ignore the last movie. The last movie open things up for more and it would piss me off if they are like "Yeah whatever. Let's not talk about it and move on!".


 

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