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Author Topic: What's Wrong With AvP?  (Read 22059 times)

overthere
Dec 05, 2015, 12:25:08 PM
Topic on: Dec 05, 2015, 12:25:08 PM
Q
AvP gets a lot of hate, but I find the first movie enjoyable. It's not amazing or anything, but I didn't mind it at all.
Teaming up with the woman is not such a bad idea, only the part where they run together in slow motion is silly. There's even a deleted scene where Predator sort of pranks her and scares her for fun.

Now, the sequel is an absolute abomination, no question about it. We can all agree on that. But the first one is not that bad at all.

What makes AvP bad?


whiterabbit
Dec 05, 2015, 01:12:55 PM
Reply #1 on: Dec 05, 2015, 01:12:55 PM
Q
AVP is not a bad movie but it's biggest problem in my opinion is that the characters were simply uninteresting. Plus I'm sure all the Predator fans were pissed about it. I mean 2 of the preds got taken out like pussies and the 3rd one died too. That slow mo thing, meh this was 2004, that was super popular back then.

I honestly don't think AVPr is that bad either, if it weren't for the fact that you can't see shit happening half of the time. I don't get all the anger over the egg barfing... the alien is a freaking rape monster that does horrible things. People asked for horror and they delivered. Of course the digital blood splatter was absolutely horrible. The bitching about the dialog is unfair too; it's a town of hicks. :P


Jigsaw85
Dec 05, 2015, 03:31:44 PM
Reply #2 on: Dec 05, 2015, 03:31:44 PM
Q
In retrospect, the movie isn't bad at all. It's got great cinematography, an amazing blend of practical and CGI effects, the story wasn't bad either considering what we usually get:"a monster is picking off the cast one at a time...in a jungle...or on a spaceship." It was the first in the series to have the balls to try something new. I loved the slow buildup to the pyramid, I liked Alexa woods and Weyland: two characters who actually have interesting backgrounds and motives. I may get shit for this but Lex is way more interesting than Ripley was in the first Alien movie.

It's not a perfect movie by any means, but then again what Alien/predator movie is? I think it all came down to fanboy complaints instead of actual filmmaking mistakes.

Two predators got taken out so easily? welcome to AVP where the predators aren't gods, the aliens deserve to have their moments of glory too guys, get used to it.

the chestbursters were born in 10 minutes? I personally think that was just faulty editing, who really knows how much time has passed during the movie. Boy I miss the days when this was one of the biggest complaints we had. now we've got AVPR, Predators and Prometheus. the complaints in AVP just seem so petty now.

« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2015, 03:20:31 AM by Jigsaw85 »

THE CITY HUNTER
Dec 05, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
Reply #3 on: Dec 05, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
Q
It was OK just it was to childish and the PG 13 Violence(I mean no swearing,no gore and the predator they way look.


Randomizer
Dec 05, 2015, 06:54:52 PM
Reply #4 on: Dec 05, 2015, 06:54:52 PM
Q
There's even a deleted scene where Predator sort of pranks her and scares her for fun.

Link?  ;D

In retrospect, the movie isn't bad at all. It's got great cinematography, an amazing blend of practical and CGI effects, the story wasn't bad either considering what we usually get:"a monster is picking off the cast one at a time...in a jungle...or on a spaceship." It was the first in the series to have the balls to try something new. I loved the slow buildup to the pyramid, I liked Alexa woods and Weyland: two characters who actually have interesting backgrounds and motives. I may get shit for this but Lex is way more interesting than Ripley was in the first Alien movie.

It's not a perfect movie by any means, but then again what Alien/predator movie is? I think it all came down to fanboy complaints instead of actual filmmaking mistakes.

Two predators got taken out so easily? welcome to AVP where the predators aren't gods, the aliens deserve to have their moments of glory too guys get used to it.

the chestbursters were born in 10 minutes. I personally think that was just faulty editing, who really knows how much time has passed during the movie. Boy I miss the days when this was one of the biggest complaints we had. now we got AVPR, Predators and Prometheus. the complaints in AVP just seem so petty now.

This. There are a lot of things which I hated at first, but I just got used to it. The only problem now is how it relates to the canon (don't even ask me about AVP-R's ending, sigh).

The events of the movie happen and Lex dies somewhere along the way, or forgets everything and nobody finds out, then a long way into the future the Nostromo incident happens? At least that's how it works in my head-canon.


overthere
Dec 05, 2015, 07:14:11 PM
Reply #5 on: Dec 05, 2015, 07:14:11 PM
Q
There's even a deleted scene where Predator sort of pranks her and scares her for fun.

Link?  ;D

This. There are a lot of things which I hated at first, but I just got used to it. The only problem now is how it relates to the canon (don't even ask me about AVP-R's ending, sigh).

The events of the movie happen and Lex dies somewhere along the way, or forgets everything and nobody finds out, then a long way into the future the Nostromo incident happens? At least that's how it works in my head-canon.

Speaking of Lex, what's with Predators playing dumb whenever someone needs a ride home? They seem to honor you but just leave you wherever the hell you are. At the end of Predator 2 they simply started the engines and prepared to leave, not caring at all if Harrigan got out or not. They left Lex stranded on Antartica. Yea, thanks for sparing my life and awarding me with a trophy, but I'm going to die from exposure here.

« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2015, 07:16:08 PM by overthere »

Randomizer
Dec 05, 2015, 07:43:48 PM
Reply #6 on: Dec 05, 2015, 07:43:48 PM
Q
There's even a deleted scene where Predator sort of pranks her and scares her for fun.

Link?  ;D

This. There are a lot of things which I hated at first, but I just got used to it. The only problem now is how it relates to the canon (don't even ask me about AVP-R's ending, sigh).

The events of the movie happen and Lex dies somewhere along the way, or forgets everything and nobody finds out, then a long way into the future the Nostromo incident happens? At least that's how it works in my head-canon.

Speaking of Lex, what's with Predators playing dumb whenever someone needs a ride home? They seem to honor you but just leave you wherever the hell you are. At the end of Predator 2 they simply started the engines and prepared to leave, not caring at all if Harrigan got out or not. They left Lex stranded on Antartica. Yea, thanks for sparing my life and awarding me with a trophy, but I'm going to die from exposure here.

Predator honor code, I guess? Like, the hunter finished his job, it's up to him to get back home. Surviving on the way back is part of the "training".

Or they just wanted to be ambiguous, for movie directing/budget's sake.

« Last Edit: Dec 05, 2015, 07:45:29 PM by Randomizer »

windebieste
Dec 05, 2015, 11:55:40 PM
Reply #7 on: Dec 05, 2015, 11:55:40 PM
Q
The original 'AvP' movie isn't bad - it's not great either.  It's a solid average movie.

It is let down in some areas, for sure.  Firstly, it's not what fans wanted.  That'll generate a negative response straight away.  Most fans wanted an action based tale on a colony world with Aliens, Predators and Marines.  We didn't get anything like that.  Instead we got some hokey story about an ancient pyramid buried under Antarctic ice that gets used for Rites of Passage by Predators who hunt Aliens.  It's a premise that makes no sense.  At all.  Why..?  WHY did they think this was actually a good idea... WHY?

On the other hand, the story itself is an interesting take on the old 'Boys Own' adventure style of material that authors of the likes of Doyle, Burroughs, Lovecraft and Haggard popularised so many decades ago.   Each of these writers made their mark on popular culture by sending groups of explorers to previously unexplored parts of the world and the fantastic adventures their characters had there.   The first 'AvP' movie resonates strongly in this regard and in a World where most of the surface has been explored, Bouvet Isle is a great location to set up such a scenario for an early 21st Century equivalent of 'The Lost World' or 'King Solomons Mines' or just about everything Burroughs wrote.   In this regard, 'AvP' is Tarzan's jungle, the plains of South America or undiscovered heart of Africa.  Places that have been thoroughly mapped leaving little room upon the globe for such modern dramas of this nature to take place.  Except for maybe at the South Pole.  Where Aliens, Predators and possibly an ancient Shoggoth may still roam, waiting for us to discover them.

Whether this was intentional or not on the part of the film makers, this is what the movie feels like to me.  It's neither a 'Predator' movie, nor an 'ALIEN' one.  Which is probably a good thing.  So despite its goofy and outlandish premise, it's no worse off  than anyone writing about dinosaurs surviving in South America or finding them thriving on an uncharted island in the South Atlantic.  I'm totally fine with all of this.  It's nonsense, but at least it's fun nonsense.    The film's one big major flaw is its characterisations.  Sure, it possesses its other inconsistencies and problems as well but when a  movie's characters are lacking, then it's in trouble.  If the onscreen performances had been more engaging and worth investing in, then the movie would be something more than just some weird thing that came out in 2004. 

It's a sad indictment on the characters of the movie that the pyramid itself possesses more personality than any of them; and it's a queer curiosity in terms of being an entry that bridges both the 'ALIEN' and 'Predator' series.  It doesn't perform that essential task in a rewarding manner but at least it's neither a complete Fail for lack of being a resounding Success. 

At least it's a damned sight better than 'AvP: Requiem', which is devoid of any personality whatsoever and lacks any performance or direction of any notable value.  It could have been a  worthy successor to the quaint antiquated 'Boys Own' antics of the 2004 film and be just as odd and quirky; but unfortunately a movie needs to do a lot more than single mindedly endeavour to pull out all stops just to score an 'R' rating to be any good.

-Windebieste.


RakaiThwei
Dec 06, 2015, 12:04:20 AM
Reply #8 on: Dec 06, 2015, 12:04:20 AM
Q
Well, if you want to know what's "wrong" with the movie... Here are the common complaints which I hear about it.

The PG-13 Rating: This is perhaps one of the biggest complaints that I have heard. Apparently nowadays, PG-13 is equivalent to either G or PG now in geekdom as a whole. This means a tone down of violence, language and an affect of the overall tone and mood of the world which the two franchises had hailed from. I never really saw the rating as a problem.

The Setting: This is perhaps one of the bigger complaints again. We all wanted a movie which was set sometime in the 2100s to the 2200s. We wanted a movie in space or on a colony world. We never got that. A lot of the belief is that AVP belongs in the future and in space-- closer to the tone of the Alien films, rather than so much the Predator films which are set in the present. Davis wanted the AVP films to be closer to the Predator films, and he achieved that but sacrificed what could've been. A lot of people feel that Antarctica was the wrong place to set the film at, a lot of people feel that Earth was the wrong place to have the conflict on as it apparently made Ripley's battle with the Alien redundant. People say that Antarctica was the wrong place because Predators prefer hot climates and can't hunt, but other media out there shows Predators hunting in cold climates and functioning just fine.

The Cast: Lance Henrikson aside, who I think did phenomenal as Charles Bishop Weyland-- a lot of people feel that the cast suffered some wooden acting, and the dialogue was really something to be left desired.

Creature Effects- A lot of people really wanted Stan Wintson Studios to do the creature effects. Let's face it, Stan was a freakin' legend and had we had Stan Winston on board, we would've gotten designs EVERYONE would've been happy with. However we ended up with Amalgamated Dynamics Inc., which was founded by two proteges of Stan Winston. For a lot of people, this.. was disappointing. People had complained about the designs of the Predators, that their dreadlocks were too long, their mouths were oversized and didn't clone, and were too muscular and big than what had come before in the previous two Predator movies. We also had complaints about the Aliens, which.. are perhaps more valid, in that the recycled use of the Resurrection Aliens was a strategy to reduce costs. While the idea of re-using a suit is economically sound, fans wanted something more along the lines of either the Giger Alien or the Cameron Alien with their bio-mechanical feel.

So far... those are the complaints which I remember hearing the most and still hear about to this very day.


SiL
Dec 06, 2015, 10:33:13 AM
Reply #9 on: Dec 06, 2015, 10:33:13 AM
Q
It's poorly written for a start. It also takes 55 minutes to get to the title fight, and the movie then ends almost exactly thirty minutes later. Anderson kept using the original ALIEN films as his inspiration, but those films spend longer WITH the monsters than without them. The lack of gore and the toned down violence makes it feel limp. There's no real impact to anything that happens. The Aliens nor the Predators are particularly intimidating or scary. The teamup feels as forced as one could dread.

Trying to rewatch it these days is an incredibly boring experience more than anything. The worst part is that the characters basically don't do anything but react to shit for 40 minutes. Passive characters are the worst. The first major decision a human character has that actually has the least bit of impact to the plot is Weyland ordering the others to pick up the Predator shoulder cannons. Until then, the Predators themselves have been popping up every 5-10 minutes to nudge the plot along and keep things moving: if we waited for the main characters, nothing would ever happen.

It's an 80 minute movie that spends 50 minutes with a group of dull, passive, uninteresting characters and then rushes to the end at the sake of neglecting all the shit we actually came to see.


Valaquen
Dec 06, 2015, 01:21:24 PM
Reply #10 on: Dec 06, 2015, 01:21:24 PM
Q
The only problem now is how it relates to the canon (don't even ask me about AVP-R's ending, sigh).

According to Paul Anderson it's a separate series from Alien. He said before its release that, "It will be a stand-alone franchise. It will not be a continuation of the Alien franchise.”


RakaiThwei
Dec 07, 2015, 04:48:03 PM
Reply #11 on: Dec 07, 2015, 04:48:03 PM
Q
According to Paul Anderson it's a separate series from Alien. He said before its release that, "It will be a stand-alone franchise. It will not be a continuation of the Alien franchise.”

You sure that's right? Because the DVD Featurette has him more saying..

"It's not meant to replace the Predator movies, it's not meant to replace the Alien movies. Alien vs Predator is it's own stand-alone franchise. I would love to see a Predator 3 with Arnie, I would love to see an Alien 5 with Sigourney."

But this.. kind of conflicts with his other statement.

"Alien vs Predator is a sequel to Predator 2, and it's a prequel to the Alien films."


Corporal Hicks
Dec 08, 2015, 11:21:56 AM
Reply #12 on: Dec 08, 2015, 11:21:56 AM
Q
I think everyone else has pretty much nailed it on the head. I find I can enjoy it if I go into the film not trying to get wound up by the bits that I hate (which is more than I can do for Prometheus or AvPR) but it still completely misses every mark.

I think the balance between the species is pretty much all it got right but the rubbish choreography in the main fight lets it down.


Valaquen
Dec 08, 2015, 07:49:08 PM
Reply #13 on: Dec 08, 2015, 07:49:08 PM
Q
According to Paul Anderson it's a separate series from Alien. He said before its release that, "It will be a stand-alone franchise. It will not be a continuation of the Alien franchise.”

You sure that's right? Because the DVD Featurette has him more saying..

"It's not meant to replace the Predator movies, it's not meant to replace the Alien movies. Alien vs Predator is it's own stand-alone franchise. I would love to see a Predator 3 with Arnie, I would love to see an Alien 5 with Sigourney."

But this.. kind of conflicts with his other statement.

"Alien vs Predator is a sequel to Predator 2, and it's a prequel to the Alien films."

The second quote seems to place the AVP films in the chronology, but every other statement says you don't have to consider it part of that chronology. So you at least know where it fits within the films, even if it's not designed to follow them per se.


RakaiThwei
Dec 08, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
Reply #14 on: Dec 08, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
Q
So they are their own canon, an AU, or were never canon in the first place.


 

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