What's Wrong With AvP?

Started by overthere, Dec 05, 2015, 12:25:08 PM

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What's Wrong With AvP? (Read 33,496 times)

Shinobi Wan Kenobi

Shinobi Wan Kenobi

#90
Give us AVP 3 so we can point out all of it's flaws too

D88M

D88M

#91
is a mediocre, kinda stupid, generic and formulaic movie that is just bland and senseless, but compared to the sequel, is a masterpiece

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#92
I actually rewatched the film recently and I think I really, really like this film more now than I have had for years before. For the record, I watched it as a youngster and loved it, but seeing it in context as a grown-up kind of altered my vision of it. As part of either series, or as a link to both, it doesn't work for one simple reason -- as a concept, the "VS" idea is far more pulp than either Alien or Predator because it's done for the sake of pitting two popular film characters against each other.

So the movie, being an adaptation of the comic, starts with the "wrong" route and cannot steer in a "right" direction that surely and inequivocably fits both series, also because they have 'tonal rules' that are difficult to conciliate into a single narrative. For example, by making the Alien the prey of the Predator and thus having the human characters just caught in the crossfire robs the film of the 'being hunted' aspect of the Predator films (which is their entire point).

But what did the movie want to do? It wanted to adapt the comic -- and that's what it should be seen as: a comic book movie that channels the two iconic characters into its own version by the way the comic book portrayed them. Aliens and Predators become stylized characters: big talons for the Aliens; big blades, big guns, more muscles for the Predators. They're not the original creatures, they're how a comic book "mind" would see them: exaggerated, pulpified.

The film acquires newfound quality and is much more enjoyable when the intentions at its roots are considered and it is seen as an echoing homage rather than an actual part of the continuity of both series. AvP is a creature-feature-based comic book movie.

There are many great aspects to it: the story moves at lightning pace scene after scene; the photography (composition, colours, etc) and visual storytelling of it are nothing short of excellent; the special effects are top notch and to this day represent one of the industry's finest combinations of practical and digital effects; the score is also serviceable and memorable enough.

With that said, of course there are flaws to be found and those are mostly within the script. Cringeworthy lines like "my experts tell me... it's a pyramid" and underdeveloped human characters seem to suggest an unfinished script, a draft that absolutely needed a couple or more passes before being subjected to production. The team-up also represents a jarring tonal shift within the narrative (the 'running together in slow-motion' shots are downright embarrassing).

Personally, the good parts ultimately outweigh the bad parts, and I really enjoy the film for what it has to offer. It's a fun ride.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#93
I agree with you on some points Omegamorph, but disagree with you on some. I think that the first film does fit in the continuities of the Alien and Predator franchises, and this is solely my opinion and I think that this is the only disagreement that I have. But the major, indisputable truth and agreement I share with you is this one:

Quote from: Omegamorph on Dec 13, 2016, 06:29:48 PM
AvP is a creature-feature-based comic book movie.

These are the movies which I grew up with, having watched films like King Kong vs Godzilla, and as Mike Richardson of Dark Horse even said, even made some comparisons to. It's just one of those movies that you're not supposed to have deep meaning in, or have some deep thought invoking occuring. No, it's a slobberknocker and it's so sad in this day and age-- movies like creature-features which are supposed to be fun, are seen as something bad. I mean if King Kong vs Godzilla, or any of the Showa era Godzilla films were made now, they'd be met with ridicule.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Dec 13, 2016, 06:29:48 PM
Personally, the good parts ultimately outweigh the bad parts, and I really enjoy the film for what it has to offer. It's a fun ride.

Exactly. My sentiments exactly, and I think this is something that needs to be looked at... and embraced.

echobbase79

echobbase79

#94
My main frustration with AvP was some of the idiotic dialog that made me roll my eyes. For example, when Sebastian asks Lex what the bones are at the whaling station (which he was just briefed on) would always get under my skin. Now I just laugh at it in good fun. It still makes the character look dumb. 

BishopShouldGo

BishopShouldGo

#95
Hunter's moon.

Hunter's moon.

Mmm.

Mmm. :)

Good summation of what is wrong with this movie.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#96
That scene would actually be fine if they simply cut it before they burst out laughing for no good reason.

Scorpio

Scorpio

#97
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Dec 14, 2016, 12:07:08 PM
Hunter's moon.

Hunter's moon.

Mmm.

Mmm. :)

Good summation of what is wrong with this movie.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 14, 2016, 01:33:18 PM
That scene would actually be fine if they simply cut it before they burst out laughing for no good reason.

Love that scene, good character moment.  A little cheesy, but I'll take it over any of the dialogue in AVPR.  At least the actors have some charisma.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#98
Quote from: Scorpio on Dec 14, 2016, 06:04:10 PMAt least the actors have some charisma.

See, I just don't feel that at all. None of them have any charisma whatsoever, except Henriksen and maybe Flannigan in the extended cut.

SM

SM

#99
Not even them.  Weyland and the Miller/ Verheiden are at least a little bit interesting before they get bumped off, though.

BishopShouldGo

BishopShouldGo

#100
Never understood why a Weyland wasn't the main character in one of these movies. Weyland was a pivotal character in AvP but the movie sucks and he gets bumped off at the end of Act 2! Guy Pearce's was barely present.

I don't want morsels or low quality. We should've been given a hunk of entrepreneur with Prometheus!

Mister Skeezler

Mister Skeezler

#101
Why? It kind of diminishes the idea of a faceless, monolithic corporation when you have its founder and CEO traipsing around in the middle of the adventure.

Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.


Scorpio

Scorpio

#102
Quote from: Mister Skeezler on Dec 20, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
Why? It kind of diminishes the idea of a faceless, monolithic corporation when you have its founder and CEO traipsing around in the middle of the adventure.

Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.

It's the beginnings of WY.  It turns faceless and monolithic by the time of Alien.

The Cruentus

The Cruentus

#103
AVP wasn't the worst.

The dialogue was bad, so was the re-dubbing by the actors i.e the hunters moon part for example. Yeah the laughing part was just....well unnecessary and obviously forced. When Lex was falling down the chasm, there was an extra shot of her that was unnecessary as well.

Basically the flaws were:

* Characters being undeveloped.
* Dialogue at times.
* The actual fight which was basically a cat fight.
* Predator stupidity.
* Lore breaking elements (Which so far Defiance seems to have done worse)
* Inaccuracies in wild life, locations, cold temperatures, (Lex should have been dead) and the mayan calendar thing. Ice climbing scene etc I could go on.
* Short length. (the unrated film is 1 hour and  48 mins) today an average film is over two hours, If Anderson had added another half hour, he could perhaps developed the characters more and perhaps even avoided the lore breaking life-cycle.
* The rating..big time. Gore is not necessary to a film at all but changing the default tone of a franchise just to reach a large audience (which is greedy since the AVP fanbase as well anyone who knows of and likes the franchise should be enough) hurt the film, its takes away the disgust and horror barely anyone is visibly killed. This whole pg-rating is affecting a lot of R rated franchises and diluting them, Don't studios make enough money as it is? Greedy B*******.
* Predator and Alien designs. Predators were the worst designed.
The film does have some positives though, Paul's vision was not bad at all, I like the pyramid idea myself, I like how Charles is portrayed which is contrast to the over the top villains they became.

The execution of Paul's ideas is where it went wrong and the characters should have been more developed. Of course, it would have been better to just take from the comics more directly....

cheachea

cheachea

#104
* PG-13 Rating

*Predator Human Team Up / Love Story / Stupid and Cringeworthy

* Fake Looking Predator Face

* Bulky Football Player looking Predator

* Stupid Over done Crap about the Pyramids. Seriously No One Cares about the Pyramids and Not Every Movie has To have BS About The Pyramids.


I really want to emphasize how annoying it is to see Pyramid BS in Every Dam Movie these days. It's Seriously over done and I'm really tired of it.


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