Aliens 30th Anniversary: The Original Comics Series (Original Dark Horse sequel)

Started by Corporal Hicks, Nov 16, 2015, 06:20:23 PM

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Aliens 30th Anniversary: The Original Comics Series (Original Dark Horse sequel) (Read 39,263 times)

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 18, 2015, 09:57:43 AMIt's the same when I hear people bitching about Aliens because "they're all cliches and etc and they've seen it all elsewhere".

But Aliens the film still has that special something that helps overcome the clichés. It's not widely accepted as one of the greatest sequels of all time for nothing. I highly doubt the comic gets that kind of praise outside of the immediate fan base - please correct me if I'm wrong. The film also has the advantage of pretty much being the progenitor of a lot of those things that are now viewed as so cliché, something the comic cannot claim (story-wise at least, you're very right about it being a huge influence on serious film tie-ins as a genre).

As I've said before, the opening scenario of Book One, with Newt in an asylum and Hicks a burn out, was very original and engaging, but sadly all that was thrown out pretty quickly in favour of a sequence of unoriginal scenes and characters.

Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 09:58:15 AMPerhaps the hype made the read more underwhelming for you.

Quite possibly. But it's not so much the comic not living up to the hype that's got me confused. It's that it fell so far below it. Being disappointed is one thing, but with this it extends way beyond that, to the point where I honestly can't see what exactly the hype is based on. It baffles me. The adoration strikes me as being largely based on things that simply aren't true. Again, see the quote about spectacularly memorable characters.

Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 09:58:15 AMWhat's your favourite Aliens comic, if I may ?

I'm actually not a great reader of comic books - in fact I first came to Book One via its novelisation by Steve Perry, although I have since read the original comic - but out of the ones I've read, I think the adaptation of Alien by Heavy Metal is by far the best. Superb artwork and a sense of maturity I found lacking in many of the others. I do have a few more Aliens comics I'd like to check out but have yet to get around to reading. And I'd really like to have a look at Rogue, the novel of which I enjoyed a lot.

Corporal Hicks

So I know what you don't actually like - which bits in Book 1/Outbreak/Earth Hive/etc do you find cliched?

Russ840



Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 09:58:15 AMWhat's your favourite Aliens comic, if I may ?

I'm actually not a great reader of comic books - in fact I first came to Book One via its novelisation by Steve Perry, although I have since read the original comic - but out of the ones I've read, I think the adaptation of Alien by Heavy Metal is by far the best. Superb artwork and a sense of maturity I found lacking in many of the others. I do have a few more Aliens comics I'd like to check out but have yet to get around to reading. And I'd really like to have a look at Rogue, the novel of which I enjoyed a lot.
[/quote]

Have you read Salvation?  May be a little more up your street.

I am a comic lover. Don't know if you are but if not perhaps that's why you do not get as much enjoyment. More to do with the medium ?

Alien by a heavy Metal. That is the 'Illustrated story' right ?

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 10:59:30 AMI am a comic lover. Don't know if you are but if not perhaps that's why you do not get as much enjoyment. More to do with the medium?

I'm not a big fan of comics, no, but as I said, I first came to the story via the novel, and that was the point at which I started scratching my head over the love it gets, and that feeling's since been compounded by reading the comic. Yes, I probably enjoyed the comic less because of the format, but it was the basic story it contained, which I already knew from the novel, that really disappointed me.

Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 10:59:30 AMAlien by a heavy Metal. That is the 'Illustrated story' right?

Yep, that's the one!

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 18, 2015, 10:43:48 AMSo I know what you don't actually like - which bits in Book 1/Outbreak/Earth Hive/etc do you find cliched?

Well like I said when I reviewed the novel a while back, it was just the way so much of it felt like it had been lifted from other films and whatnot that pre-existed it, especially the first two Alien films themselves. Caricature corporate stooges? Check. Insider working against the team? Check. Arrogant commander ultimately revealed as the traitor? Yep. Surprise android reveal? You betcha. It was the sheer volume of it, it felt as though - once they were off Earth - the entire story was built from plot blocks that had been stolen from other films and books and reassembled, and to compound the issue in each case these elements weren't done anything like as well as in the media they were borrowed from. Butler even gets ripped in half and reduced to a torso, a literal carbon-copy of Bishop.

Nothing wrong with borrowing stuff in principle, of course - Aliens does it extensively with regards to Alien - but it was just so frequent and on the nose in the comic, and in every case the borrowed elements were done in a far inferior way that only made it more obvious it was copying from much better material. Many of the other EU stories have similarly aped the films, but they at least seemed to either do it in a way that wasn't so blatant, or surround it with an interesting enough scenario that the copied elements were more palatable.

There were certainly good things in the comic. The Alien-worshipping religious cult was a nice angle, and I've already pointed out how much I enjoyed the initial set-up. But the good inventive stuff seemed to be heavily weighted towards the start, whereas a lot of what came later felt like poor rip-off more than anything. On top of that, the dialogue wasn't exactly stellar, the characters that didn't rely on you already knowing them from previous movies were dull and under-developed, and there were a couple of slightly daft plot contrivances too, most obviously Hicks electing to take Newt along for the ride on a military mission he is convinced will be suicide.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 18, 2015, 11:59:32 AM
Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 18, 2015, 10:59:30 AMAlien by a heavy Metal. That is the 'Illustrated story' right?

Yep, that's the one!

Absolutely fantastic comic. I can't say I've read too many adaptations but from what I have seen this is light years above those I have seen. It looks like actual care and attention went into the Illustrated Story as opposed to the phoned-in feeling I've got from others.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 18, 2015, 10:43:48 AM
Nothing wrong with borrowing stuff in principle, of course - Aliens does it extensively with regards to Alien - but it was just so frequent and on the nose in the comic, and in every case the borrowed elements were done in a far inferior way that only made it more obvious it was copying from much better material. Many of the other EU stories have similarly aped the films, but they at least seemed to either do it in a way that wasn't so blatant, or surround it with an interesting enough scenario that the copied elements were more palatable.

I'm with you and I understand.

QuoteThere were certainly good things in the comic. The Alien-worshipping religious cult was a nice angle, and I've already pointed out how much I enjoyed the initial set-up.

The religious aspect of the EU is one of my favourite things, personally. I would have loved to see it evolve into something more organized and been longer lasting.

Quoteand there were a couple of slightly daft plot contrivances too, most obviously Hicks electing to take Newt along for the ride on a military mission he is convinced will be suicide.

Yeah that was always weird. That said, I do feel a re-read of Earth Hive coming on now.

The First Child

The design of the alien mother's head was very cool. (Not a big fan of the weak and fetus like body).

Perfect-Organism

Perfect-Organism

#51
Quote
Quoteand there were a couple of slightly daft plot contrivances too, most obviously Hicks electing to take Newt along for the ride on a military mission he is convinced will be suicide.

Yeah that was always weird. That said, I do feel a re-read of Earth Hive coming on now.

Not sure if that's all so far fetched there Wilks.  I mean Hicks.  ;-)

I mean in the original Aliens comics by Verheiden, it was shown that Hicks was basically left all alone and ostracized by everybody.  The Alien consumed his entire life and since Ripley disappeared, there was only Newt left who was the other sort of "living proof" that the past happened and that it was not just a figment of his imagination.  So all he dis was go say good-bye to Newt.  But he realized that they were going to lobotomize her which was in his mind effectively a death sentence anyway.  So instead, Hicks decided to take her with him.  Yes it was a suicide mission, but to stay in that asylum was perhaps a worse sort of death.  Hicks knew she wasn't crazy and didn't deserve to be in the asylum.  If there was anyone who would understand his mission (which was not in line with the military's objectives anyway - I mean he was practically AWOL from page 1) it would be Newt.  He knew she would understand his motivation - revenge, and that the only cure was to defeat the Aliens or die trying.  He knew Newt was feeling the same way.  Not contrived at all.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#52
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 18, 2015, 10:01:17 PM
Not sure if that's all so far fetched there Wilks.  I mean Hicks.  ;-)

Considering he could just drop her off elsewhere and she be much safer, it's a little contrived. You could argue she doesn't know anyone (that said, they could have just had her stay with relatives that maybe didn't know she was in that condition. I don't remember how/when she ends up in the asylum) and Hicks' only choice was to bring her along but considering it's  supposed to be to save her, it doesn't make all that much sense bringing her on a guaranteed deathified ending mission.

Russ840

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 19, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 18, 2015, 10:01:17 PM
Not sure if that's all so far fetched there Wilks.  I mean Hicks.  ;-)

Considering he could just drop her off elsewhere and she be much safer, it's a little contrived. You could argue she doesn't know anyone (that said, they could have just had her stay with relatives that maybe didn't know she was in that condition.

I don't remember how/when she ends up in the asylum) and Hicks' only choice was to bring her along but considering it's supposed to be to save her, it doesn't make all that much sense bringing her on a guarenteed deathified ending mission.

I get what your saying.

Perhaps a better way to have newt in the story would have been for hicks to liberate her from the asylum and take her some place safe, go of on his mission and have a second main plot following Newt having an adventure on earth and needing to escape and then her and Hicks meeting up to then lead into the next book.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#54
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 18, 2015, 10:01:17 PMNot contrived at all.

No, Hicks (our Hicks) is right, it is contrived. I'm sure they could've come up with some more meaningful explanation as to why Hicks has no choice but to take Newt along, but they didn't. As it's presented in the comic it makes very little sense. Hicks saves her then immediately drags her off to her death. If he is so concerned for Newt's well-being, he'd never take her along on a military suicide mission to an Alien planet where she's simply going to be killed (he's sold on everyone dying from the start, this point is made abundantly clear). So why is he so quick to condemn her to that fate if he cares about her?

It was a plot contrivance designed solely to get Newt involved. There was no real logic behind it. It's exactly the same problem I had with much of Prometheus - dumb stuff happens because it's needed to further the plot, not because it makes sense.

Quote from: Russ840 on Nov 19, 2015, 09:24:07 AMPerhaps a better way to have newt in the story would have been for hicks to liberate her from the asylum and take her some place safe, go of on his mission and have a second main plot following Newt having an adventure on earth and needing to escape and then her and Hicks meeting up to then lead into the next book.

This would've been far more interesting, would've upped the stakes for Hicks to survive and get back to Earth, and generally would've been more logical. Although I guess the comic already had too much crammed into it as it was.

Whiskeybrewer

It would have needed to be at least 8 issues for that. Imagine Newt being on Earth as the Alien Sect releases the horde on Earth and she's having the same Nightmares as everyone on. Hicks gets back and him and the surviving Synths go searching for her

Perfect-Organism

Guys, I really do see your point, but I still am not convinced by it.  I've been meaning to sit down one of these days and do a thorough review of Book One, and if I ever find the down time, I will do just that.

Anyway, the whole Newt thing still doesn't strike me as contrived.  Firstly, we don't know What happened to Newt in the 10 years following the events of Aliens in this story.  There is a reason she is in an institution.  It is highly probable that her extended family doesn't want anything to do with her.  After Aliens, she was likely adopted, but the trauma she sustained made it impossible for her to lead a normal life which is why she ended up in the asylum.  I'm just guessing here, but this is entirely reasonable.

The second thing is that Hicks and Newt are the only ones capable of vicariously empathising with each other.  Only Hicks understands what Newt went through and that she is not crazy.  Likewise, only Newt understands what Hicks is going through.  It is obvious that Hicks is plagued by nightmares.  He is constantly reliving his Acheron hell.  So he feels that the only way to exorcise his demons is through revenge and wiping out the Aliens.  This is consistent with his character in the film.  Remember, "yeah. Yep that's right.... It's the only way to be sure".  Hicks is trying to free himself from the nightmares and figures the only way to be free is to get revenge.  He projects these motivations onto Newt, assuming she is going through the same ongoing horror.  So his thinking is that the only way to save Newt and himself from the nightmares is to go on the suicide mission.  Yes, this could result in their death very likely, but after a decade of nightmares, he figures it is better than the alternative; madness.  One could argue that what he did was wrong and not in the kid's best interest.  Definitely.  But contrived?  Not really.

Mark Verheiden may have needed to include Newt in the story, but he did so in a very deft way.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 19, 2015, 03:01:56 PMMark Verheiden may have needed to include Newt in the story, but he did so in a very deft way.

With all due respect to Mr. Verheiden, Book One is about as deft as a sledgehammer.

It achieves what it means to achieve, but subtle and nuanced it is not.

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 19, 2015, 03:16:41 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 19, 2015, 03:01:56 PMMark Verheiden may have needed to include Newt in the story, but he did so in a very deft way.

With all due respect to Mr. Verheiden, Book One is about as deft as a sledgehammer.

It achieves what it means to achieve, but subtle and nuanced it is not.

It does nothing for me to convince you otherwise.  We're just having a convo here.  Anyway, we can agree to disagree.  To each his own.  The Aliens series covered a massive swath of cataclysmic events and yet it was a very personal tale which shows how subjects of such grandeur could be tackled well and intimately.

My perspective is definitely influenced by reading the series at the moment it was released.  Reading the whole volume at once takes away the feeling of enjoying the cliff-hangers.  And I tell you, there were cliff hangers galore in this series especially when you consider that some of the issues were being release 4 - 6 months apart!  Dark Horse was not the comic-churning machine that it is today.  Back then you felt that each comic released was the result of the blood, sweat, and tears of a group that was just barely sort of holding it together.  That made the anticipation that much greater.  I still remember going to the comic store week after week and asking "is it here yet?"  Anyway, I can only look back on the experience of reading this series very fondly.  It isn't perfect, but I find myself wanting to give it a pass in the same way that I want to give a pass to Prometheus, and overlook its shortcomings.

I would say the far bigger plot-hole was Captain James Likowski from the Junket not knowing what was about to happen to him.  I mean the Junket obviously had an encounter with the aliens and he escaped in a pod.  So that doesn't really add up.

Hemi

Book 1 was horrible imo. Never understood why the tech(as in weapons) were so poorly done. Bloody ray-gun garbage... Story-wise it just didn't grab me at all. Visually it was very impressive though. Nightmare asylum was much better. Propper pulse rifles, and a decent story. Shame it tied into that mess that is called Book 1. It's my opinion anyway, and I get that there is love for it. The art is really like nothing else in the entire Aliens comic books series. Same goes for Labyrinth...but that was near perfect, visually and story-wise. That gore... oh my..  ;D

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