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Author Topic: What possible thing justifies a retcon?  (Read 6891 times)

CainsSon
Feb 26, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
Topic on: Feb 26, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
Q
I've made no secret of the fact that I think retconning things is lazy and lacks integrity. The worst part of this to me, is that I would rather some crazy, dumb unbelievable explanation be given for the inclusion of anyone, rather than retcon entire sequels in a series of films that I've spent my spare-time throughout life wondering what would happen next in. Whether I was disappointed or not. And trust me I was extremely disappointed by Alien 4. I was just as disappointed in Alien3 at first - AT FIRST.

But I just don't understand why it has to be done? Just to bring back Hicks? Really? Is that the best reason? Because backpeddling from A:R and just making Ripley grow more human wouldn't be that difficult to pull off. So I guess I'm just thinking, what ideas do some of you have that justify the retcon happening? Like; for what reason, narratively speaking, does it have to occur?


Omegamorph
Feb 26, 2015, 07:38:11 AM
Reply #1 on: Feb 26, 2015, 07:38:11 AM
Q
Creative liberty. The filmmaker has a certain vision and brings it to life.


whiterabbit
Feb 26, 2015, 07:42:27 AM
Reply #2 on: Feb 26, 2015, 07:42:27 AM
Q
Nothing, 3 and 4 simply has no reason left to exist. That is of course, as long as the 5th movie doesn't blow.


« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2015, 07:46:03 AM by whiterabbit »

RakaiThwei
Feb 26, 2015, 07:51:38 AM
Reply #3 on: Feb 26, 2015, 07:51:38 AM
Q
What justifies a retcon as to whether or not if a general audience and a fanbase has a negative reaction towards a particular concept or story, or sometimes even characters. However this doesn't stop to movies but also comic books but.. more and more I am feeling that the retcon tool is being abused. While I don't have anything negative to say about the upcoming Alien V movie, I can say that I do not like the decision to ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection. Now.. Resurrection I can do without but Alien 3 is a diamond in the rough. I say this because I have seen the Assembly Cut and it's a much better film than the theatrical, and then there is the workprint which I hear is even better. Sadly, it seemed as if this unrecognized diamond is being kicked to the curb..

I say that the retcon tool is being abused quite a lot, and not just in movies but also in comic books and video games. In the case of comic books, I bring up One More Day which was the retconning of Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson's marriage. The reasoning behind that was because the writers felt as if Peter Parker was no longer relatable because he was married and it made him old.

We have content creators for our generation who grew up with the stuff we did, and who also for all intents and purposes probably didn't like some of the things which we were presented with. Maybe these content creators were disgruntled with certain storylines, characters... whatever. Sometimes their motivations are selfish, sometimes they feel like they're trying to bring a franchise to it's former glory.

Now in the case of the Alien franchise.. We've had a partial retcon in the Aliens: Colonial Marines game, where Hicks was miraculously resurrected from the dead and didn't even so much as bother to explain how he was still alive. Of course the DLC content tried to explain that but it did so in a hammish manner. In other words, it was done for fan service. Now I grew up with Alien 3, and when I saw the movie.. I didn't see anything wrong with it until somethings which were pointed out such as the egg appearing on the Sulaco and the EEV.

But after having seen the Assembly Cut of the movie.. I find it hard to have a good reason to retcon this movie. I felt that Ripley's sacrifice against an all consuming enemy was a good swan song for the character, and quite a heroic way to go out. Perhaps people didn't like the depressing ending of the Alien saga, perhaps they simply didn't like how Hicks and Newt were killed off.. But seeing both versions of the film, I find no reason why it should be retconned. Ignored? Possibly, but retconned?

If it is retconned... will Alien 3 and Resurrection merely be addressed as a nightmare? If you ask me, that is a major cop out and I feel like it would be take away from the franchise just to please fans of the second film.

This looks like it maybe the PREDATORS of the Alien franchise.



CainsSon
Feb 26, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
Reply #5 on: Feb 26, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
Q
Creative liberty. The filmmaker has a certain vision and brings it to life.

Succinct and on point.

It is neither succinct or on point. One could propose this argument if a director suddenly wanted to introduce King Kong to the franchise. We would consider that fan-fic because it wouldn't make sense despite exercising creative liberty. I'm asking for ideas. Not debate. What reason could there be, plot wise that doesn't amount to fan-fiction? Im asking you to have some vision and answer the question. Whether the ideas are used or not.


Gash
Feb 26, 2015, 08:12:07 AM
Reply #6 on: Feb 26, 2015, 08:12:07 AM
Q
Retcon Aliens. Ripley got back to Earth 9 months after the Nostromo blew and 35 years later she's back in space and heading towards that unknown, unnamed planetoid.


OpenMaw
Feb 26, 2015, 08:33:22 AM
Reply #7 on: Feb 26, 2015, 08:33:22 AM
Q
It is neither succinct or on point.

Yes. It is. You just don't like it;) That's fine. There's nothing wrong with disliking the retcon, but what OZ said is exactly right.



Retcon Aliens. Ripley got back to Earth 9 months after the Nostromo blew and 35 years later she's back in space and heading towards that unknown, unnamed planetoid.

I'd be very interested in seeing where that alternative could take things too.  :)


PsyKore
Feb 26, 2015, 08:51:29 AM
Reply #8 on: Feb 26, 2015, 08:51:29 AM
Q
I dunno if a retcon is totally bad but it depends what the motives for it are. I think it's wrong, for example, just to retcon because people want to re-live ALIENS all over again. A different movie with different characters can be made; it just has to be good.


Liberator
Feb 26, 2015, 10:21:38 AM
Reply #9 on: Feb 26, 2015, 10:21:38 AM
Q
A retcon just need enthusiasm to make it work, and justify it.  Alien 5 is the best movie news I've heard in a long, long time.




Nightmare Asylum
Feb 26, 2015, 01:02:20 PM
Reply #12 on: Feb 26, 2015, 01:02:20 PM
Q
Why take a crazy, dumb explanation when you can forego that and have a potentially good film that stands on its own?


OpenMaw
Feb 26, 2015, 01:22:49 PM
Reply #13 on: Feb 26, 2015, 01:22:49 PM
Q
Why take a crazy, dumb explanation when you can forego that and have a potentially good film that stands on its own?

I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

Just, as an example, look at the sober and mature way Aliens handles Ripley being locked away for over half a century. It reads like it could be potentially outlandish. "Ripley got stuck in space for 57 years, and after returning to Earth she's paired up with spess mahrens to go back and fight HUNDREDS OF ALIEMS!" Ya know? It's all in the way that you execute your bullsh*t.  :laugh:


Perfect-Organism
Feb 26, 2015, 03:34:40 PM
Reply #14 on: Feb 26, 2015, 03:34:40 PM
Q
Why take a crazy, dumb explanation when you can forego that and have a potentially good film that stands on its own?

Alien Resurrection is the crazy dumb explanation of all crazy dumb explanations.

Alien 3, while a good film on its own, is almost equally absurd.  You really think Ripley wouldn't have gone to check the drop-ship for critters before going to hypersleep?  That's Poppycock.  The writers even said they didn't have the resources to do a better job.  Let it go.


 

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