"You Are One Ugly Motherfu…" - Wishlist Alien vs. Predator 3

Started by Corporal Hicks, Feb 25, 2015, 09:50:08 AM

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"You Are One Ugly Motherfu…" - Wishlist Alien vs. Predator 3 (Read 28,851 times)

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

With a new Alien film, Predator 4 and Prometheus 2 somewhere on the horizon, I took to wondering when we would see the next Alien vs. Predator film. And then I took to wondering how to make sure it was done right. I have just uploaded an article about what direction I want to see the next Alien vs. Predator take:

“As far as I'm concerned, the first big mistake Paul Anderson's Alien vs. Predator made was setting the film on modern day Earth. Whilst I think he did a good job in taking the Aliens to one of the most remote and hostile places on the planet, it completely negates the point of the Alien films and Ripley's constant sacrifices to ensure the Aliens never come to our homeworld. It was a desire on the part of producer John Davis to keep the film rooted in the Predator franchise that resulted in this.

However, since Aliens vs. Predator's conception it was always rooted in the time and setting of the Alien films and this tradition carried across into the games. Look at the popular comics and games and you will find them set on far off colonies, with spaceships and Colonial Marines.”

avp3-article-06 Farzad Vrahramyan Shares New Alien 5 Concept Art!

Throughout the article I talk about the setting, time period, creature design and the over-use of recyled homages. We’d like to hear your thoughts on the matter as well. Did you agree or disagree with me on anything? Let us know down below.

Link To Post


RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#1
Honestly, I had no problem with Anderson's movie as the Antarctic setting really didn't interfere with anything which was established in the future as far as the Alien movies are concerned. As it affecting Ripley's sacrifice, I don't feel that it did anyting to negate that as most of the Aliens, if not all of them for the most part were exterminated. That's all in regards to the first movie and only the first..

Requiem on the other hand... That sort of did affect Ripley's sacrifice in the fact that now a major world government military now has knowledge of the Xenomorph. As far as the Predator side of things are concerned, well the government has known about them for quite sometime already. So that's really nothing new. What people had a gripe was the fact that there was a plasma caster left behind and supposedly that is what lead to space exploration. It would've been better had they stuck with the evaporated lake and finding a Predator ship.. Would've made more sense.

I do agree with the fact that there does need to be respect handled for the creatures. There definitely does need to be a middle ground. Anderson gave the Aliens better treatment than he did with the Predators, and the Brothers Strause gave the Predators better treatment than the Aliens. A middle ground is a must.. Show the creatures having a struggle with each other. And if one HAS to stand out, explain and show why a Predator or Alien character is significantly a threat higher above the rest but still able to be conceivably beaten by others as well.

I think elements from the old comics were done well in Anderson's movie but he did a different spin on it with the whole pyramid thing. I thought that was actually pretty cool, and introduced something new. Keep the blooding ritual, keep the pyramids but have them set on other worlds too (like BG-386) but if something needs to be standing alone on it's own merits.. fine. However one can't deny that the Alien vs Predator concept which we all want came from the comics. So keep the blooding ritual, keep the idea of Predators harvesting and respecting Xenomorphs.

Setting it in the future? Awesome! This is something which we all wanted eleven years ago but we never even so much as got. Why didn't Davis go with that? I have no idea, but could've would've should've, I digress. Where should it be in the future? The colonies? A space station? A Blade Runner-esque city? All of which are cool!

Ship combat? Leave that to Star Wars.

Going back to the original designs? You know.. it just sounds like that's coming from people who wants another Classic Predator, and a Giger Alien. Which is all cool and dandy but I don't want to see another Classic and Giger.. at least.. not DIRECT designs. Maybe subtle redesigns but keep the core elements completely intact. One thing that bothered me about PREDATORS was that Classic was designed for fan-service. I think that was even admitted too.

More alien species? Sure, as long as this is not a preserve planet. I wouldn't mind seeing some free range alien fauna. But I wouldn't want to see something that's.. entirely sentient. I wouldn't mind seeing something like alien primates, raptors, arachnids. I mean can you imagine a Xenomorph which gestated inside of an alien arachnid? That'd be pretty cool.

Hypothetical movie as a sequel? Like someone on the forum said.. finish it off with a third movie. It doesn't exactly have to reference the first two but it should be the sequel to them. Let AVP be it's own parallel universe or parallel continuity to the Alien and Predator stand-alone franchises.

Hypothetical movie as a reboot? Well... I have some reservations about that but again, and this also applies to it being a reboot too, let AVP be it's own parallel universe or parallel continuity to the Alien and Predator stand-alone franchises.

Just my two cents.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#2
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 25, 2015, 10:19:01 AM
I do agree with the fact that there does need to be respect handled for the creatures. There definitely does need to be a middle ground. Anderson gave the Aliens better treatment than he did with the Predators, and the Brothers Strause gave the Predators better treatment than the Aliens. A middle ground is a must.. Show the creatures having a struggle with each other. And if one HAS to stand out, explain and show why a Predator or Alien character is significantly a threat higher above the rest but still able to be conceivably beaten by others as well.

I disagree with this one. I think Chopper's takedown was exactly how it should be portrayed. The Alien used stealth to its advantage. However, the fight between Celtic and Grid was just...meh. No weight or substance to it. And then, of course, when Scar got his shoulder cannon it became a shooting gallery which is reasonable as Predators obviously have advantage. That was all pretty reasonable.

It's just the wrestling match that needed working on.

QuoteI think elements from the old comics were done well in Anderson's movie but he did a different spin on it with the whole pyramid thing. I thought that was actually pretty cool, and introduced something new. Keep the blooding ritual, keep the pyramids but have them set on other worlds too (like BG-386) but if something needs to be standing alone on it's own merits.. fine. However one can't deny that the Alien vs Predator concept which we all want came from the comics. So keep the blooding ritual, keep the idea of Predators harvesting and respecting Xenomorphs.

Setting it in the future? Awesome! This is something which we all wanted eleven years ago but we never even so much as got. Why didn't Davis go with that? I have no idea, but could've would've should've, I digress. Where should it be in the future? The colonies? A space station? A Blade Runner-esque city? All of which are cool!

Indeed. Davis wanted it grounded in his Predator franchise which was Earth-based at that point. It should never have been in the modern like that.

QuoteShip combat? Leave that to Star Wars.

If it was dog-fighting, yes, I'd agree with you. But as both species should certainly have different technologies like that, the capital ship combat would be really cool. As I said, something like Halo.

QuoteGoing back to the original designs? You know.. it just sounds like that's coming from people who wants another Classic Predator, and a Giger Alien. Which is all cool and dandy but I don't want to see another Classic and Giger.. at least.. not DIRECT designs. Maybe subtle redesigns but keep the core elements completely intact. One thing that bothered me about PREDATORS was that Classic was designed for fan-service. I think that was even admitted too.

Doesn't have to be an exact copy, but something more akin to the originals. Very few people like the fleshy, non-biomechanical, reused designs of the Aliens in those films.

QuoteMore alien species? Sure, as long as this is not a preserve planet. I wouldn't mind seeing some free range alien fauna. But I wouldn't want to see something that's.. entirely sentient. I wouldn't mind seeing something like alien primates, raptors, arachnids. I mean can you imagine a Xenomorph which gestated inside of an alien arachnid? That'd be pretty cool.

It needs to happen. At the end of the day, Predator 2 has shown us they hunt other species. Alien and Prometheus showed us there were other beings out there. It'll stagnant if it doesn't try to expand the universe, only retread. Like I said in the homages section, it's not about reusing time and again old tropes. It's about building forward.

QuoteHypothetical movie as a sequel? Like someone on the forum said.. finish it off with a third movie. It doesn't exactly have to reference the first two but it should be the sequel to them. Let AVP be it's own parallel universe or parallel continuity to the Alien and Predator stand-alone franchises.

Hypothetical movie as a reboot? Well... I have some reservations about that but again, and this also applies to it being a reboot too, let AVP be it's own parallel universe or parallel continuity to the Alien and Predator stand-alone franchises.

There is absolutely no reason to make it a sequel to the others. They're disliked for a reason. The human characters are boring and retreads and there's no loose story threads hanging that need to be addressed. It can be it's own thing ala Predators without referencing the first two.

Russ

Russ

#3
An interesting read, Hicks. I'm with you on the ship combat - there was that cut scene in AvP2 where the Yatjua ship decloaks and blows the Marine one up - its a great shot and I can "see" it in a movie (with the necessary dead body bouncing off the glass - thank you Armageddon).

I think any such endeavour has to tread a really careful line - fan opinions count for sure, but a vocal fanbase doesn't make up the vast majority of viewers.

If it were me, I'd be looking at forums like this one for a long time and seeing which contributors had the knowledge and, importantly, put forward views that - by and large - were along the same lines as my "vision." The Strausse boys did that, but I honestly feel that they were badly treated on here and went too far over the fourth wall. Some say it was a marketing ploy, others that it was a genuine intent to engage with the biggest (or one of?) AvP fan forum in the world. That said - and here's the thing, if AvPGalaxy is one of the biggest forums and every single member went and saw it, that's less than 20000 people.

But that's how I'd engage with the fanbase. Subtly. But I'd hope that this sort of thinking could inform a new AvP movie (and for all we know, Neill Blomkamp is at this moment reading the epic threadery around his project). It's clear that AvPG has experts - real experts - in the subject matter at hand.

Also, if it were me, I'd be using the vocal minority as stick with which to hit the studio - the one thing everyone can agree on is that if you're going to do this, it needs to be in space, in the future, with pulse rifles and smart guns. That'll cost heaps more than Paul's movie and The Strausse boys.

I mentioned before on a different thread, though, Woodruff was saying that he'd love to see a huge budget Alien movie, but those films - as much as we love them - just don't resonate in the way that "Independence Day" did (he cited that and, I think, Star Wars) - Aliens and Predator just aren't as big. On the other hand, they did throw a lot of money at "Prometheus."

I'm confident that if Shane Black's and Neil Blomkamp's movies hit, this one will follow: it's whether later chapters of those guys renewed franchises reference each other's universes in someway shape or form.

Quote
There is absolutely no reason to make it a sequel to the others. They're disliked for a reason. The human characters are boring and retreads and there's no loose story threads hanging that need to be addressed. It can be it's own thing ala Predators without referencing the first two.

Just as an aside, I find this an interesting standpoint, given your views on Blomkamp's movie.



Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#4
Quote from: Russ on Feb 25, 2015, 10:55:59 AM
Quote
There is absolutely no reason to make it a sequel to the others. They're disliked for a reason. The human characters are boring and retreads and there's no loose story threads hanging that need to be addressed. It can be it's own thing ala Predators without referencing the first two.

Just as an aside, I find this an interesting standpoint, given your views on Blomkamp's movie.

Completely valid point. However, Alien Resurrection has a loose story thread to follow on from - and whilst people state "everyone" hates Alien 3 and Resurrection the threads here show the popular option, from the voters at least, is to follow on from Resurrection. The other thing I'm keen on for is a completely new standalone film for Alien 5 - which is what I prefer for AvP3.


Quote from: Russ on Feb 25, 2015, 10:55:59 AM
If it were me, I'd be looking at forums like this one for a long time and seeing which contributors had the knowledge and, importantly, put forward views that - by and large - were along the same lines as my "vision." The Strausse boys did that, but I honestly feel that they were badly treated on here and went too far over the fourth wall. Some say it was a marketing ploy, others that it was a genuine intent to engage with the biggest (or one of?) AvP fan forum in the world. That said - and here's the thing, if AvPGalaxy is one of the biggest forums and every single member went and saw it, that's less than 20000 people.

I am genuinely ashamed of how they were treated here - just goes to show the general uncivilized nature of the Internet. However, they were trying to sell us on the film despite the flaws. It was a marketing ploy IMHO - I just wish people would have been more adult about it.

Darkness

Darkness

#5
I don't think it was so much a marketing ploy, as mostly the Strauses were just enjoying their time in the spotlight. We're really only a small vocal minority in the grand scheme of things so I don't think it mattered what we thought.

Anyway, I think there's more chance of me winning the lottery than there is a new AvP film coming out.

Corporal Hicks

With all the other franchises getting a new film, I don't think it's that far fetched.

Russ

Quote from: Darkness on Feb 25, 2015, 01:26:31 PM
Anyway, I think there's more chance of me winning the lottery than there is a new AvP film coming out.

If you won the Euromillons, you could make a new AvP if you wanted to.

I'm with Hicks, though - as long as Black'n'Blom's films don't tank, you can take AvPIII to the bank. The Blood Bank. (Seagal vs Aliens vs Predator - now I'd buy that for a dollar (vs RoboCop)).

Sagit

After 2 AvP movies I think they should not make another one. First one was mediocre at best. Requiem... well let's skip this one. I'd prefer to see a good Predator movie and Alien 5 that will erase the memory of Resurrection.
As for setting and stories:
-Predator movie set during WW1:lots of potential victims, all armed so even more honourable kills, fixed frontlines ergo homogeneus scenery (not just jungle from the first movie with added moons) and nowhere to run from the beast... just some ideas.

Alien 5 - Ripley is not a leading character, original movie atmosphere, explained eggmorphing, Sevastopollike setting, single xeno and no new hybrids, predaliens, newborns and all this BS.

Taxemic

It should be called Aliens vs Predator and should capture the film of the original films like the best games did. Was watching AVP2 walkthroughs on youtube the other day. Still a brilliant game.

Jman

Definitely not anywhere near Earth, and no stupid teens running around in it.

skull-splitter

One thing to wish for is no cheesy forced hommages and lifted lines like the headline of this post...

marrerom

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 11:04:59 AM
I am genuinely ashamed of how they were treated here - just goes to show the general uncivilized nature of the Internet. However, they were trying to sell us on the film despite the flaws. It was a marketing ploy IMHO - I just wish people would have been more adult about it.

The Strauses were snake oil salesmen through and through.  They came on this site, and others, to peddle their 3rd rate garbage and to stroke their egos.  They also had a blatant disrespect for the Aliens and their fans.  Repeatedly they said things like "why would anyone root for the Aliens?" and "you should root for the Predator because he has honor", ect, etc.  Also, their audio commentary was a unprofessional jab at all Alien fans where they repeatedly mocked the creatures performance and laughed at how much the Alien fans would hate it. As far as i'm concerned the B.S. deserved far worse then what they got and their film career is now where it belongs, Nowhere.  They are a joke.

OpenMaw

AVP3 shouldn't even be called "AVP3"

Just call it ALIENS vs PREDATOR, and completely ignore the other two films.

Taking a page out of the initial AVP film script (based on the comic) i'd set it on a lush jungle planet with a populous of wildlife, a human colony with a small USCM security force to protect WY interests. Pulling a couple ideas from SiL's awesome AVP script, i'd have the Predators be the ones to instigate the spread of the aliens, and keep both species squarely in the villainous department.

Space Disc Jockey

Great ideas/suggestions, Hicks. I agree with you.

I would like to see Aliens vs Predator vs Engineers vs Humans. Basically, the Engineers would supply Alien eggs to the Predators to hunt with.

Also, I've always been intrigued with the Machiko character from the comics and would love to see her on film.

And, I know I'm going to get yelled by some people for saying this, but I've also wondered about an "Alien King" and female Predators...if I lost people right now, I'm sorry, but they are ideas I've barely seen explored (and I'm sure people will say there's a reason for that), but is it such a bad thing to see them introduced? If you roll your eyes, then fine, but I'd still like to see new things introduced.

Anyway, since Fox is still making Prometheus, Alien and Predator films, I don't see any reason why an AVP reboot CAN'T happen and done, right.

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