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Author Topic: Sales  (Read 30713 times)

CelticPred97
May 16, 2015, 03:21:42 AM
Reply #105 on: May 16, 2015, 03:21:42 AM
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No. In no instance am I going to change my belief because it's what the majority think. That is an idiotic logic.

Evil Mark - Fair enough thoughts about 'Aliens: Colonial Marines'. In terms of 'Alien: Isolation':

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Remember the main gun you get in isolation is a pistol, and the only time that worked to kill an alien was at point blank range, with several shots to the same location before the creature died.  Hicks did use a shotgun, but that was off screen so we really don't know how effective it was, or if it was loaded with shot or slugs.   The only weapons we saw work reliably were using armor piercing rounds, and if you notice when shooting the alien in isolation the rounds ricochet off of its armor.

Wow that's a good defence. I half disgaree, in that I think it's safe to say bullet's pierce their bodies, they just have tough skin and so it takes a number of shots to kill them (well, depending on what you're using).
I can't remember the Hicks moment exacly but doesn't he shoot an alien with a shotgun at close range, thus how he gets acid on his face? We see that happen.
As for the pistol, you can shoot the alien at point blank range in the game and it won't kill it. So whether it's difficult or not in the films, it's impossible in the game.
So, yeah that was a decent, interesting defence but I do ultimately disagree.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 11:22:24 PM by CelticPred97 »

EvilMark
May 16, 2015, 10:01:49 PM
Reply #106 on: May 16, 2015, 10:01:49 PM
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Ill through my 2 cents into the argument.  I enjoyed both games, and actually really liked A:CM.  Graphics don't make a game, so i have no problem overlooking issues in that department (people put way too much emphasis on graphics imho).  The weapons and sounds were authentic, I liked the story and felt it did a great job retconning Hicks death.  My only problems were the spitters, boilers, and the OP human enrmies.

Isolation did an absolutely amazing job with the atmosphere, and absolutely everything feels right.  Remember the main gun you get in isolation is a pistol, and the only time that worked to kill an alien was at point blank range, with several shots to the same location before the creature died.  Hicks did use a shotgun, but that was off screen so we really don't know how effective it was, or if it was loaded with shot or slugs.   The only weapons we saw work reliably were using armor piercing rounds, and if you notice when shooting the alien in isolation the rounds ricochet off of its armor.


Engineer
May 17, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
Reply #107 on: May 17, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
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Wow! I'm shocked this argument is even taking place!

My 2 cents: the aliens weren't bullet proof. It just takes more rounds than we could put into them. In the movie, most of the weaponry used (pulse rifles and smart guns) used armor piercing rounds, referenced by Gorman in the hive scene. In isolation, we didn't have access to military grade weaponry or armor piercing rounds. Going back to the second movie, Vasquez had to unload a whole clip from her side arm point blank in an alien's face to kill it, and that ended with her foot getting acidified! Gorman similarly unloaded all his side arm ammo into an alien close range shortly after. This seems to support the game's scenarios where you can't kill the alien with a measly revolver before it closes the gap it disembowls you. As an onlooker, we DO see acid sprays off the alien's body as others shot the alien too, so it WAS damaged by the shots, just not enough to kill it. Then there's the shotgun... In the movie, the only alien we actually see hicks kill with a shot gun is the one he shoves the barrel into its mouth (soft spot, so to speak). My opinion is that the shot gun would be about as effective as the revolver against the alien hide but with a wider area of effect. Those marines' armor piercing rounds were pretty critical to shooting down the aliens, apparently! I suppose the bolt gun could have done more damage, but it seemed like you always ran out of ammo before an alien encounter comes up again (at least for me anyway). So I'm not disturbed by the guns at all...

... What I am disturbed by is your high praise of A:CM and low opinion of A:I?!? A:CM's had tons of plot holes, which have been extensively discussed all over the place. I don't think anyone has the energy to reiterate them here, so if you're really curious, I'd recommend heading over to the A:CM forums and thumb through the old discussions there. But I would more highly recommend that you don't. I was very disappointed with A:CM, and if you weren't, then you should preserve that by remaining ignorant to it.... Ya know, ignorance is bliss and all (I mean that in a nice way, not as an insult) :-)

PS. Looks like someone beat me to the armor piercing rounds point... Not sure how I missed that before my post. Lol

« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 12:52:16 AM by Engineer »

CelticPred97
May 17, 2015, 02:03:45 AM
Reply #108 on: May 17, 2015, 02:03:45 AM
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Engineer -
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the aliens weren't bullet proof. It just takes more rounds than we could put into them.

- The bullets didn't pierce their skin so it wouldn't matter how many bullets we had.

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In the movie, most of the weaponry used (pulse rifles and smart guns) used armor piercing rounds, referenced by Gorman in the hive scene. In isolation, we didn't have access to military grade weaponry or armor piercing rounds.

- We had a shotgun as well as a bolt gun (whatever that was). I'm pretty sure that would have pierced the skin of an alien.

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Going back to the second movie, Vasquez had to unload a whole clip from her side arm point blank in an alien's face to kill it, and that ended with her foot getting acidified! Gorman similarly unloaded all his side arm ammo into an alien close range shortly after. This seems to support the game's scenarios where you can't kill the alien with a measly revolver before it closes the gap it disembowls you.

- Again, the bullets don't pierce the skin, whether we put 1 or a whole clip in is irrelevant.

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As an onlooker, we DO see acid sprays off the alien's body as others shot the alien too, so it WAS damaged by the shots, just not enough to kill it.

- When? At no point in the game do I recall acid coming from the aliens.

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Then there's the shotgun... In the movie, the only alien we actually see hicks kill with a shot gun is the one he shoves the barrel into its mouth (soft spot, so to speak). My opinion is that the shot gun would be about as effective as the revolver against the alien hide but with a wider area of effect.

- That would be a good point except a clip of a pistol kills an alien in 'Aliens', therefore, a shotgun should be able to in less.

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What I am disturbed by is your high praise of A:CM and low opinion of A:I?!?

- High praise? I think it's a decent/good game. I don't consider it nearly as good as other games. But it is certainly playable and enjoyable enough to not deserve the extent of hate it gets. High praise though, no.
And I wouldn't say I have a low opinion of 'Alien: Isolation', as such. I just think it has a significant number of issues.


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A:CM's had tons of plot holes, which have been extensively discussed all over the place. I don't think anyone has the energy to reiterate them here

- If you don't have the energy to reiterate them here, you can't use that as a point. Either state the plot holes or don't state that there are any. The only thing in the way of plot holes I've noticed is having variants of xenomorphs and even that can be explained, by the nuke.


windebieste
May 17, 2015, 02:28:02 AM
Reply #109 on: May 17, 2015, 02:28:02 AM
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'ALIEN Isolation' is not an 'ALIENS' game.   Of course there will be some discrepancies.   Does it really matter? 

The Creative Assembly title does exactly what it sets out to achieve considering the source material while on the other side of the debate, the GBX title sits in gloomy dismay as a sad indictment on how to totally botch and cripple a great licence. 

It's just a sad fact now that 'A:CM' has absolutely NO MERIT WHATSOEVER.  I'm happy some people, that is, a very small minority found it acceptable.  Good for you!  To the greater fan base, however, it was an appalling aberration that should not have been released.   After all the 'Pew!, Pew!, Pew!, Pew..!' 'AvP' titles we have had over the past 15 years it's refreshing to see a game like 'A:I' finally get made especially after we now have to interminably endure and suffer the embarrassment that is 'ALIENS: Colonial Marines'.

People forget the defining movie of this series IS the first one.  Every other entry after 'ALIEN' has to tow the line, not vice versa.  I sometimes think 'ALIENS' fans need to be reminded of that fact, which means if high temperature plasma exhaust doesn't instantly obliterate the creature upon contact, then shotguns might not be able to bring it down down either. 

-Windebieste.


Engineer
May 17, 2015, 02:37:44 AM
Reply #110 on: May 17, 2015, 02:37:44 AM
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Hey man! I wasn't using the plot holes as an argument, I was just merely pointing out why others may not be listing the plot holes... But anyway, easiest way to list them all, if you really want them, is to provide a link. So here us go:

http://www.denofgeek.com/games/alien/24459/a-closer-look-at-aliens-colonial-marines-story

I just pulled this link from the top of a Google search. I don't know how much detail it really goes into, or if it even catches them all. But I'm sure you'll get the idea nonetheless.

Most Shotguns (especially non-military) are no more powerful in force than most handguns. They just have a spread of small bearings to cover a wider area, which typically causes more damage. That spread isn't concentrated in one small spot like several pistol rounds fire consecutively though. Just saying. A shotgun will do more damage, but without armor piercing rounds I can see it being fairly useless against an alien without shoving it down its mouth.

And yea, I've seen AI characters in the game fire shots at the alien and noticed acid sprays flying off just before the alien ripped into them (I was usually hiding under a gurney)... All I can say is, I'm sorry you didn't see that. It's a dark game, which might make it hard to see if the lighting wasn't ideal.

Bullets do pierce their skin... Otherwise how would Vasquez have burned her foot in the air vent? Plus, see my message directly above...

Scratch that link. I took a closer look, and it's more of a story synopsis. Here's a batter link that points out the errors and plot holes.... It is a wiki site, but if you've played the game you'll be able to verify this rather large list yourself. :-)

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_goofs

« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 02:52:52 AM by Engineer »

CelticPred97
May 17, 2015, 03:45:11 PM
Reply #111 on: May 17, 2015, 03:45:11 PM
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windebieste -
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'ALIEN Isolation' is not an 'ALIENS' game.   Of course there will be some discrepancies.   Does it really matter? 

- To me, yes. And being an 'Alien' rather than 'Aliens' game means it is being set in the style of 'Alien'. It doesn't mean it should ignore the logic of the series.

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The Creative Assembly title does exactly what it sets out to achieve considering the source material while on the other side of the debate, the GBX title sits in gloomy dismay as a sad indictment on how to totally botch and cripple a great licence. 

- Whether something achieves what it is supposed to is irrelevant. That doesn't mean it's acceptable or good.

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It's just a sad fact now that 'A:CM' has absolutely NO MERIT WHATSOEVER.

- You can say that, but that doesn't make it the case.

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I'm happy some people, that is, a very small minority found it acceptable.  Good for you!  To the greater fan base, however, it was an appalling aberration that should not have been released.

- Really? I was under the impression that everuybody loved it -_-

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People forget the defining movie of this series IS the first one. Every other entry after 'ALIEN' has to tow the line, not vice versa.  I sometimes think 'ALIENS' fans need to be reminded of that fact, which means if high temperature plasma exhaust doesn't instantly obliterate the creature upon contact, then shotguns might not be able to bring it down down either.

- Fire resistant and bullet resistant are two separate things. Yes, 'Alien' came first, but we see in 'Aliens' a shotgun kill an alien. We also see a sidearm kill an alien. Since that does not contradict 'Alien', it is taken as fact. That is definitive.



CelticPred97
May 17, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
Reply #113 on: May 17, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
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Engineer -
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Most Shotguns (especially non-military) are no more powerful in force than most handguns. They just have a spread of small bearings to cover a wider area, which typically causes more damage. That spread isn't concentrated in one small spot like several pistol rounds fire consecutively though. Just saying. A shotgun will do more damage, but without armor piercing rounds I can see it being fairly useless against an alien without shoving it down its mouth.

- Okay well I don't know much about guns and armour piercing rounds but I'll believe you because that'll make me happier about the game.

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And yea, I've seen AI characters in the game fire shots at the alien and noticed acid sprays flying off just before the alien ripped into them (I was usually hiding under a gurney)... All I can say is, I'm sorry you didn't see that. It's a dark game, which might make it hard to see if the lighting wasn't ideal.

- I'll look out for it if/when I replay it.

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Bullets do pierce their skin... Otherwise how would Vasquez have burned her foot in the air vent?

- Yes I know they do in the film. I'm talking about in the game. But if what you said above about your shotgun not being armour piercing is right, that explains why.

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http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_goofs

- Well okay, 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' is full of plot holes; albeit minor details but yeah.

Okay. I've just looked into armour piercing rounds - well that's all good then.
Although, if the AI's weaponry does indeed pierce the alien's skin, shouldn't your weaponry also?; given that the weaponry you pick up is that of the AI.


Engineer
May 17, 2015, 04:23:23 PM
Reply #114 on: May 17, 2015, 04:23:23 PM
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Engineer -
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Most Shotguns (especially non-military) are no more powerful in force than most handguns. They just have a spread of small bearings to cover a wider area, which typically causes more damage. That spread isn't concentrated in one small spot like several pistol rounds fire consecutively though. Just saying. A shotgun will do more damage, but without armor piercing rounds I can see it being fairly useless against an alien without shoving it down its mouth.

- Okay well I don't know much about guns and armour piercing rounds but I'll believe you because that'll make me happier about the game.

Quote
And yea, I've seen AI characters in the game fire shots at the alien and noticed acid sprays flying off just before the alien ripped into them (I was usually hiding under a gurney)... All I can say is, I'm sorry you didn't see that. It's a dark game, which might make it hard to see if the lighting wasn't ideal.

- I'll look out for it if/when I replay it.

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Bullets do pierce their skin... Otherwise how would Vasquez have burned her foot in the air vent?

- Yes I know they do in the film. I'm talking about in the game. But if what you said above about your shotgun not being armour piercing is right, that explains why.

Quote
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_goofs

- Well okay, 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' is full of plot holes; albeit minor details but yeah.

Okay. I've just looked into armour piercing rounds - well that's all good then.
Although, if the AI's weaponry does indeed pierce the alien's skin, shouldn't your weaponry also?; given that the weaponry you pick up is that of the AI.
Who says it doesn't? Ive seen acid sprays when the AI shoot the alien, but I've never bothered to shoot it. If I did, I wouldn't be surprised if the acid blood sprays off from my gun fire too, but then again, I'd be too focused on the face full of jaws I'm about to get.

And A:CM had more than just minor details wrong with it. Minor details I can forgive; the big, gaping plot holes make me look at the game as though it were a joke. Perhaps it was all one big joke by gearbox anyway... I always found it rather oddly coincidental that the final achievement/trophy in the game was named after the movie quote "happy to disappoint you"... I swear that was gearbox's way of laughing at us!!


Mr. Clemens
May 17, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
Reply #115 on: May 17, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
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I sometimes shoot the alien just for fun when i know I'm doomed. Can confirm, acid sprays.



CelticPred97
May 17, 2015, 06:39:57 PM
Reply #117 on: May 17, 2015, 06:39:57 PM
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Engineer - Okay, so the guns of the game are weaker than those in 'Aliens'. Great. I can cross that off my list of complaints.

The plot issues with 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' are minor. There are a lot of them.  But they are indeed minor.
That is ironic about the trophy/achievement :p

Mr. Clemens - Thanks.


Engineer
May 17, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
Reply #118 on: May 17, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
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The lack of logic explanation behind:

1. Why human-bishop wanted ripley's embryo at the end of alien 3 when the game establishes a substantial hive and queen exist on lv-426 still and are being studied by WY...

2. Why WY would bother establishing a second hive on the sulaco when they already had the hive on lv-426

3. Why wait to go after Ripley when they were already in the area when her EEV was ejected (or conversely why it took so long to get to fury when they were already near by)

4. Why the marines took so long to send a rescue crew, even after getting hick's distress signal plus why they had no prior knowledge of the aliens before dispatching the sephora battalion.

5. How the colony survived the blast from the atmosphere processors almost fully intact.

Etc... Are all major plot holes.

Things like, the wrong initials were used for pvt. Frost's first name on his locker, are smaller errors.

PS. If you include info from resurrection, the whole game becomes a plot hole... They say in resurrection that ripley died trying to wipe the species out and she was successful (for 200 years, anyway). Yet the game has a whole new hive on lv-426... Worse yet, the game ends with us leaving lv426 and the hive is still running amok on the surface of the moon. I'm sure they were sequel-baiting, but still...

« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 07:37:51 PM by Engineer »

CelticPred97
May 17, 2015, 11:08:25 PM
Reply #119 on: May 17, 2015, 11:08:25 PM
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Engineer -

1. Maybe the specific group that are going to try and convince Ripley are unaware of the aliens on LV-426.

2. For the sake of having 2 research facilities. Having 1 on the ship means it's transportable.

In fact going back to 1. It's good to have more. Queen's are obviously rare and so having another is helpful (well it's destructive, but in the mind of a scientist, it's a good idea).

3. I don't remember how near by they were.

4. For the first point there: They're busy? You don't know where they were at the time. And if it is a case of Weyland Yutani being in control, it's not like Weyland Yutani were in a rush to help the people. It's logical in fact that they'd want the people to be killed first.
As for the second pont: Hick's distress call doesn't specify aliens. It just said that there were casualties and they needed help.

5. Yeah that one doesn't make sense.

"Things like, the wrong initials were used for pvt. Frost's first name on his locker, are smaller errors."

- Yeah how they failed at that I have no idea. You would think they'd have screenshots of the movie when creating these things.

In terms of 'Alien: Resurrection', it's a new company so you could say that they are unaware of the alien colony on LV-426, because officially it is destroyed.
Or you could say that the aliens are indeed eventually destroyed and the character wasn't being specific enough when he said that Ripley suceeded in destroying the aliens.

Yeah they were probably aiming to make a sequel. I find that unlikely though. Although I think if they did make a sequel, they would make sure it was good.


 

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