Prometheus 2 set for March 4th 2016

Started by Gazz, Mar 24, 2014, 10:33:49 PM

Author
Prometheus 2 set for March 4th 2016 (Read 110,100 times)

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#360
Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
My point was countering your erroneous point about the senior officer wanting to countermand quarantine.
I'm not sure that it was 'erroneous point' when it was in response to a misjudged attempt at arguing that the Nostromo had a rigorous/robust process for investigating alien transmissions??? A single locked door does not constitute a rigorous quarantine process. And a captain who is prepared to circumnavigate that aforementioned 'sticky tape and glue' procedure cannot, in any seriousness, be deemed 'well equipped'. That one attempts to explain away these logic gaps/conveniences and contrivances in Alien (or in any film one values), but to then readily critique such things in Prometheus is the point I'm trying to make. One has to apply the same measure to both films in order to view it as objectively as possible.

Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
The point is nothing exists in a bubble.  Actions have repurcussions and influence future actions.  Dallas is way more realistic - evne with the mistakes he makes, than Milburn who runs a mile from dead bodies (wouldn't a biologist be a little bit interested?), but make goo-goo eyes and new alien lifeforms (and the hammerpede scene doesn't even bug my in the slightest - but I can see why people would criticise it).
As I pointed out before, I think you're conflating 'tone' with 'character' and/or 'character behaviour'. Alien appears more 'realistic' not because of any innate acting skill of the actors involved or dialogue per se, but because of the approach that Scott chooses to take. Alien has a much more 'natural' approach in terms of lighting, camera set up, dialogue. Prometheus is much more based in 'fantasy' and its style is much more a 'hyper-reality' one - in terms of dialogue, lighting etc. etc. It's an aesthetic choice on the filmmaker's part... and is not a consequence of a lack of technical application. It's like comparing the behaviour of the characters in 2001:ASO to Star Trek when they are both trying to achieve completely different things.

Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
Why would anyone suspect that?  Dallas interrogated Mother - she said she'd picked up a transmission and got them up to check it out.  "He just runs the ship". Was he supposed to be omnipotent or something?
I'd expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It's part of the detail that lends to more believability.

Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
Simple answer is that Ash was already at Thedus.  Why try and make up stuff to complicate things?

Same reason they didn't send a specific expedition.  Cost/ potential security implications.
But there you go trying to justify things that are not in the film... Why would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that's what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)? What were the security issues (I've never heard of those??? Why not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity? Why did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?

Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
You'd have a point if this was in fact, the case.

However it's not.  Anyone paying attention is perfectly capable of joining the dots.  It's really very straightforward.  And is reinforced by the events in Aliens and Alien3.  Again, I don't know why anyone would want to try and complicate something to frightfully simple.

But that's what you're alluding to isn't it? That complicated explanation for the company's rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film? That you accept it without question is great. I'm happy to accept it as well... but I'm merely pointing out that when Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect. For example, as I pointed out before... Why have only a single escape shuttle that can't even take 50% of the crew? It's of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley's escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn't stack up.



Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
Dallas' seniority didn't count for jack while he was in the lock. The person whose seniority did matter followed protocol. What Dallas ordered was irrelevant because he wasn't in charge.
It did as soon as he was back in the ship.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
Uh, you're the one who was saying it was such a certainty that the thing would attack and kill them that it rendered the quarantine procedure moot.
Nope... the point wasn't in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash's intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they'd been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don't know that. We don't know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don't know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
How about we look back at the point you made that I was actually responding to. You said Dallas was stupid/incompetent because:

Horseshit. If your friend had a face-sucking alien strapped to his face you wouldn't stand outside a hospital saying "Yeah, no, it's cool, we'll just let him rape you until your procedures say you can try to save his life". If someone you were responsible for was in a car accident and you were told you couldn't call for an ambulance for at least a day afterwards, would you listen? Not unless you're a completely heartless arsehole. Which Dallas wasn't.
What a ridiculous comparison. A captain's responsibility is to his ship and the entire crew. He/she has to view things holistically, logically, objectively... that's the difference between those in charge that make decisions and those who get told what to do. Great... Dallas is a 'people' person... but it certainly didn't do the rest of the crew, the ship or its cargo any good. Ergo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
By Aliens, yes. By Alien, no, they're still being run by full crews.
Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you're just pullin' out of thin air? ;)

SM

SM

#361
QuoteI'd expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It's part of the detail that lends to more believability.

Clearly you expect wrong.

QuoteWhy would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that's what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)?

Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.

QuoteWhat were the security issues (I've never heard of those???

I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens.  Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.

QuoteWhy not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity?

He wasn't in the vicinity.

QuoteWhy did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?

So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.

QuoteThat complicated explanation for the company's rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film?

Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.

Quotewhen Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect

Perfect? No.  Far from perfect?  Also no.

QuoteIt's of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley's escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn't stack up.

Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.

QuoteErgo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.

Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.

QuoteWhere in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you're just pullin' out of thin air?

Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.

SiL

SiL

#362
QuoteNope... the point wasn't in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash's intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they'd been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don't know that. We don't know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don't know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.
Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.

QuoteWhere in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you're just pullin' out of thin air?
Nostromo -- seven crew.
Sulaco -- one.

You do actually watch these films, yes?

Darth Vile

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Clearly you expect wrong.
Clearly I don't readily accept these type of contrivances.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.
So they send a ship to investigate alien transmissions and don't think of the potential scenarios? They don't play that out in their heads AT ALL? Is everyone, sans Ripley, in the 'Alien' universe a moron? "Hey we've just received alien transmissions indicating intelligent life in the cosmos, at coordinates X, Y and Z, which could change the nature of our existence, the universe and make us unimaginably rich. What should we do?". "Mmm - Just order a pizza for delivery at that location and we'll let pizza dude check it out for us"...


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens. Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.
I still don't understand what those security issues are? Burke certainly doesn't expand upon them - so why should I presume there were security issues x amount of years earlier during the events of Alien? Why are you so willing to accept information presented in films you like?

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
He wasn't in the vicinity.
The 'vicinity' as in the 'vicinity' of the Nostromo. Are we now to assume that Ash was just conveniently boxed up and waiting to be activated? Why didn't Ash just requisition the Nostromo. Why didn't the company request the Nostromo leave its cargo at the space station and then travel to the planetoid? Surely that would have made the trip quicker and less risky (in terms of putting the cargo in jeopardy)?

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.
Suspect what exactly? It still doesn't explain the subterfuge. Why not just say "we're diverting you to investigate alien transmissions and we've put Ash on board to lead the investigation"? Why present him as the science officer when they could have put him on board as the captain? The subterfuge suggests that the 'company' knew that the missions could be deadly/dangerous? Otherwise why keep the facts from the inexperienced, ill equipped crew? But then it comes back to, so why if the company suspect this, and go through the trouble of all the subterfuge, do they not just send an equipped crew/ship in the first place with Ash masquerading as the scientist officer? It don't make sense.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.
Quote
What it suggests to me is that people who aren't willing to turn the same spotlight on the films they like are either lacking or just a tad hypocritical. You endlessly stating "yes it does – it says so in the film" and creating your own scenarios is not a defence.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.
Yes - You could "tie it in" if you were just making excuses and trying to defend blatant contrivances and logic gaps. Which of course you're not...


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.
Something we agree about. Prometheus does exactly the same... My point.


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
Which is the point I was making... There's no evidence to suggest that ships can't be piloted by a single pilot... specifically an android... Why couldn't Ash do what David and Bishop did?

Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2014, 09:30:53 PM
Quote
Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.
Quote
That's never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself. I think you've read too many comics.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2014, 09:30:53 PM
Quote
Nostromo -- seven crew.
Sulaco -- one.

You do actually watch these films, yes?
Really??? I'm beginning to question whether you've watched these films recently. Where is the specific dialogue in Alien (or Aliens) that 'ships' cannot be piloted by a single occupant? In 2014 a single pilot is capable of landing a jumbo jet right?

The1PerfectOrganism

The1PerfectOrganism

#364
Are you guys seriously still doing this?

SiL

SiL

#365
QuoteThat's never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself.
:laugh: Oh boy are you grasping at straws. It's never stated bullets kill Aliens, either, so I guess it's fair to say all the Aliens that ever got shot to death were just stunned and woke up later :laugh:

Elmazalman

Elmazalman

#366
Quote from: Darth Vile on Apr 10, 2014, 04:06:20 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Clearly you expect wrong.
Clearly I don't readily accept these type of contrivances.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.
So they send a ship to investigate alien transmissions and don't think of the potential scenarios? They don't play that out in their heads AT ALL? Is everyone, sans Ripley, in the 'Alien' universe a moron? "Hey we've just received alien transmissions indicating intelligent life in the cosmos, at coordinates X, Y and Z, which could change the nature of our existence, the universe and make us unimaginably rich. What should we do?". "Mmm - Just order a pizza for delivery at that location and we'll let pizza dude check it out for us"...


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens. Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.
I still don't understand what those security issues are? Burke certainly doesn't expand upon them - so why should I presume there were security issues x amount of years earlier during the events of Alien? Why are you so willing to accept information presented in films you like?

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
He wasn't in the vicinity.
The 'vicinity' as in the 'vicinity' of the Nostromo. Are we now to assume that Ash was just conveniently boxed up and waiting to be activated? Why didn't Ash just requisition the Nostromo. Why didn't the company request the Nostromo leave its cargo at the space station and then travel to the planetoid? Surely that would have made the trip quicker and less risky (in terms of putting the cargo in jeopardy)?

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.
Suspect what exactly? It still doesn't explain the subterfuge. Why not just say "we're diverting you to investigate alien transmissions and we've put Ash on board to lead the investigation"? Why present him as the science officer when they could have put him on board as the captain? The subterfuge suggests that the 'company' knew that the missions could be deadly/dangerous? Otherwise why keep the facts from the inexperienced, ill equipped crew? But then it comes back to, so why if the company suspect this, and go through the trouble of all the subterfuge, do they not just send an equipped crew/ship in the first place with Ash masquerading as the scientist officer? It don't make sense.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.
Quote
What it suggests to me is that people who aren't willing to turn the same spotlight on the films they like are either lacking or just a tad hypocritical. You endlessly stating "yes it does – it says so in the film" and creating your own scenarios is not a defence.

Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.
Yes - You could "tie it in" if you were just making excuses and trying to defend blatant contrivances and logic gaps. Which of course you're not...


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.
Something we agree about. Prometheus does exactly the same... My point.


Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
Which is the point I was making... There's no evidence to suggest that ships can't be piloted by a single pilot... specifically an android... Why couldn't Ash do what David and Bishop did?

Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2014, 09:30:53 PM
Quote
Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.
Quote
That's never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself. I think you've read too many comics.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 09, 2014, 09:30:53 PM
Quote
Nostromo -- seven crew.
Sulaco -- one.

You do actually watch these films, yes?
Really??? I'm beginning to question whether you've watched these films recently. Where is the specific dialogue in Alien (or Aliens) that 'ships' cannot be piloted by a single occupant? In 2014 a single pilot is capable of landing a jumbo jet right?
Nostromo is piloted from both the bridge and engineering,on C-deck.A crew member would have to be in two places at once.

SM

SM

#367
A post Ziggurat that screams "I've forgotten why I'm being so obnoxiously contrary but LEAVE PROMETHEUS ALOOOONEEE!!!"

Kimarhi

He's trying to hard.  If he wants to ride Prometheus Jock nobody gives a shit.

Gash

Gash

#369
696 days to go...

redalert51

It seems like forever, and a huge tease . I really enjoyed " Prometheus " , We will be hard pressed to see a sequel by 2016. Look at the sequels , By " Marvel" two years
apart or so for good old Cap and co...       


Space Sweeper

The Counselor 2 confirmed

Corporal Hicks

Lil' bit of non-news really. It's a shame we're not hearing more.

NickisSmart

Better than "No, there isn't going to be a sequel," I suppose...

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