Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

Started by Corporal Hicks, Oct 10, 2013, 08:24:08 PM

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Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series (Read 270,613 times)

predxeno

predxeno

#195
Every franchise you run into will be a mess, I'm beginning to think that people say the EU is not canon simply because they don't like the stories rather than on any other merit.

ArcticHuntress

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Every franchise you run into will be a mess, I'm beginning to think that people say the EU is not canon simply because they don't like the stories rather than on any other merit.

You have to admit there are some really bad Predator/AvP comics.

predxeno

predxeno

#197
Lol, I WILL admit that, but that's still no reason to throw these stories in the trash; once they're out there, they're out there.

ArcticHuntress

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 05:37:54 PM
Lol, I WILL admit that, but that's still no reason to throw these stories in the trash; once they're out there, they're out there.

The original comic stories will always be there for those who want to read them. (Well, provided they don't go permanently out of print of course.)

predxeno

predxeno

#199
To be fair, the ORIGINAL versions are now out of print and have been replaced with the NEW versions that fall in line with movie continuity.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#200
Quote from: Huntress84 on Oct 30, 2013, 05:36:44 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Every franchise you run into will be a mess, I'm beginning to think that people say the EU is not canon simply because they don't like the stories rather than on any other merit.

You have to admit there are some really bad Predator/AvP comics.
I won't disagree there, but everyone's definition of "bad" is different. There have been comics I didn't like at all, that others did enjoy, and vice versa. Kind of like in real life - there's shitty, "bad"/stupid/nonsensical things that happen in real life, too, so if anything I'd rather include the bad stuff for as complete of a picture as possible. I'm not saying I *want* bad stories to happen, just that I'm willing to roll with it when they do and hope for better in the future.

SM

SM

#201
Quote from: PanCoreUnit on Oct 30, 2013, 04:52:34 PM
IMO the EU is a mess already.Also steve perry came out and said that comic Ripley was an android who does not know she is an android.

So take that as you will. :laugh:

Doesn't change the fact there's no reference to RoboRipley in the comic.

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Every franchise you run into will be a mess, I'm beginning to think that people say the EU is not canon simply because they don't like the stories rather than on any other merit.

You're only beginning to think that?  People have been saying that at least 10 years.

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 10:06:19 PM
To be fair, the ORIGINAL versions are now out of print and have been replaced with the NEW versions that fall in line with movie continuity.

And then fall out of line with continuity.  ;D

predxeno

predxeno

#202
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 01:37:32 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 30, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Every franchise you run into will be a mess, I'm beginning to think that people say the EU is not canon simply because they don't like the stories rather than on any other merit.

You're only beginning to think that?  People have been saying that at least 10 years.

Yes, but my point is we can't just throw things out of canon just because there are continuity discrepancies because ALL franchises have those and they haven't done that at all.  If they can do it, so can we.

SM

SM

#203
QuoteYes, but my point is we can't just throw things out of canon just because there are continuity discrepancies because ALL franchises have those and they haven't done that at all.

Yes we can, because that's what people choose to do.  How will you stop them, and make them accept everything as canon like you want them to?  Especially if you're trying to enforce a continuity that has no continuity.  They'll laugh in your virtual face.

What other franchises do has no bearing on anything.  Other franchises aren't uniform in how they handle continuity anyway.

predxeno

predxeno

#204
I'm not trying to enforce any continuity, I just want it stated that all EU is part of the official continuity; basically, I want to be able to say something like:

In Aliens Destroying Angels, the space jockey (aka Engineer) was in a space suit that appeared to be composed of ACTUAL living flesh that had hair on it.  Juxtaposing from this, it can be assumed that even their technology may have hints of their biological DNA in them (as is hinted by the description of their tech as bio-technological); here, the suit acts not only as a suit but also as a second skin.

Without being told that it's "not canon" because all the evidence DOES suggest it is canon and while they may have the majority vote, the people who believe otherwise are in the minority opinion (and by minority opinion, I mean that they are most likely wrong because the evidence points that way rather than because of any personal belief on the matter).

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#205
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 01:37:32 AM
Quote from: PanCoreUnit on Oct 30, 2013, 04:52:34 PM
IMO the EU is a mess already.Also steve perry came out and said that comic Ripley was an android who does not know she is an android.

So take that as you will. :laugh:

Doesn't change the fact there's no reference to RoboRipley in the comic.
That's an example of why I'm willing to accept multiple sources as a composite depiction of otherwise individual events. The Female War comic and novel don't contradict each other in one having RoboRipley and the other not mentioning it, the two complement each other and provide a more complete picture, and then I'd take individual aspects from both sources. I'd do the same thing when looking a movie's script, novelization, comic book adaptation, and the film itself.

Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 02:21:36 AM
I'm not trying to enforce any continuity, I just want it stated that all EU is part of the official continuity; basically, I want to be able to say something like:

In Aliens Destroying Angels, the space jockey (aka Engineer) was in a space suit that appeared to be composed of ACTUAL living flesh that had hair on it.  Juxtaposing from this, it can be assumed that even their technology may have hints of their biological DNA in them (as is hinted by the description of their tech as bio-technological); here, the suit acts not only as a suit but also as a second skin.

Without being told that it's "not canon" because all the evidence DOES suggest it is canon and while they may have the majority vote, the people who believe otherwise are in the minority opinion (and by minority opinion, I mean that they are most likely wrong because the evidence points that way rather than because of any personal belief on the matter).
I'm going to have to side with SM on this one - I don't think it matters if individual people take a given source as "canon" or not, what matters is what you think and what you enjoy. I'm not going to dictate to other people what they can and cannot enjoy, or how they can enjoy it, and I'd expect the same courtesy from others.

I'm happy in the knowledge that FOX considers the EU canon, and likewise others are happy to disregard anything FOX says for any number of reasons. There's nothing wrong with this. :)

predxeno

predxeno

#206
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 02:26:25 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 02:21:36 AM
I'm not trying to enforce any continuity, I just want it stated that all EU is part of the official continuity; basically, I want to be able to say something like:

In Aliens Destroying Angels, the space jockey (aka Engineer) was in a space suit that appeared to be composed of ACTUAL living flesh that had hair on it.  Juxtaposing from this, it can be assumed that even their technology may have hints of their biological DNA in them (as is hinted by the description of their tech as bio-technological); here, the suit acts not only as a suit but also as a second skin.

Without being told that it's "not canon" because all the evidence DOES suggest it is canon and while they may have the majority vote, the people who believe otherwise are in the minority opinion (and by minority opinion, I mean that they are most likely wrong because the evidence points that way rather than because of any personal belief on the matter).
I'm going to have to side with SM on this one - I don't think it matters if individual people take a given source as "canon" or not, what matters is what you think and what you enjoy. I'm not going to dictate to other people what they can and cannot enjoy, or how they can enjoy it, and I'd expect the same courtesy from others.

I'm happy in the knowledge that FOX considers the EU canon, and likewise others are happy to disregard anything FOX says for any number of reasons. There's nothing wrong with this. :)

I don't have a problem with what other people believe as well, I just tire when other people state their beliefs as if they were acknowledged facts when the evidence is against them.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#207
I understand why that can be annoying, but I'm generally willing to let the issue slide unless someone is really pushing the issue (which doesn't seem to happen often, thankfully).

predxeno

predxeno

#208
Personally, I'd be happy if people accepted that people can have different views on canon; but it seems to me that people are becoming more and more convinced that the "popular" view is the right view that it's starting to have a negative effect on the series.  What really gets me is how the writer for these new AVP series comics say that he's simply not going to include the AVP movies in his canon simply because the fan community says so. 

It shouldn't matter what the fan community wants, if there's a story to be told involving the movie angle, then it deserves to be told regardless of what the fans want.  If, however, there is simply no need to introduce the movie angle, then it's also fine; the story needs to be told the way it should be told and if the AVP films don't fit then so be it.  However the way he talks about it, it sounds like he is making deliberate steps to avoid those movies when he should just be acknowledging them like the rest of the writers are doing with their stories, he's standing alone in this regard. 

I've seen what fan demand has done to stories, it hasn't been nice; sequels have caused blatant continuity errors to original stories in an attempt to be more true to original script material and what fans want that they alienate not only these fans (regardless of what they try to do) but fans that would have remained fans if they hadn't tried to make such radical readjustments.  In the end, what I'm saying is that stories deserve to be told for what they are and shouldn't have to make adjustments to what people want, that doesn't determine a good story, it's what comes into a writer's mind in its truest form that really sells.

SM

SM

#209
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 31, 2013, 02:21:36 AM
I'm not trying to enforce any continuity, I just want it stated that all EU is part of the official continuity; basically, I want to be able to say something like:

In Aliens Destroying Angels, the space jockey (aka Engineer) was in a space suit that appeared to be composed of ACTUAL living flesh that had hair on it.  Juxtaposing from this, it can be assumed that even their technology may have hints of their biological DNA in them (as is hinted by the description of their tech as bio-technological); here, the suit acts not only as a suit but also as a second skin.

Without being told that it's "not canon" because all the evidence DOES suggest it is canon and while they may have the majority vote, the people who believe otherwise are in the minority opinion (and by minority opinion, I mean that they are most likely wrong because the evidence points that way rather than because of any personal belief on the matter).

You can say that, if you like.  Just don't expect everyone to buy it, because many people will think it's a stupid idea that makes no sense and lacks any substance whatsoever.

QuoteWhat really gets me is how the writer for these new AVP series comics say that he's simply not going to include the AVP movies in his canon simply because the fan community says so. 

Did he actually say that?  Even if he did, you don't know what form that'll take.  It may simply ignore the films (ie. the events don't follow Bouvet/ Gunnison and the characters aren't Lex, Dallas, pizza boy, Ripley clone and Newt clone), but not outright negate their existance.  Could be like the Sacrifice comic for example.  No direct link to any film character or event.  Not even the Company rates a mention.

And if they do choose to negate the films - that's a commercial decision they have to live with, but one not many people will ultimately lose sleep over; the films aren't well liked.  Even by people who like them.  Might also be a licensing decision - they may not have access to the AvP film license - despite the fact it was born out of them combining the two creatures in the first place.

QuoteIn the end, what I'm saying is that stories deserve to be told for what they are and shouldn't have to make adjustments to what people want, that doesn't determine a good story, it's what comes into a writer's mind in its truest form that really sells.

Which directly flies in the face of what you've been saying about Ridley Scott and Prometheus.  If he changed his story to conform with AvP, wouldn't that be it being adjusted to what YOU - the fan, whose demands should be ignored - want?

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