Topic: ALIEN: Out of the Shadows (Novel 1)

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[Perfect-Organism]

I respect your position on the matter, and it is not far off from mine in some ways.  I actually love Alien 3 too.  If you were to ignore Alien and Aliens, and just jump into the series at Alien 3, anyone would think it is a solid film on its own merits.  However I think people are to this day invested in the characters of Hicks, Ripley, and Newt.  If one were to want to include them in any further Aliens tales, I think the best way would be to decanonize Alien 3 and go off on a different tangent.  Otherwise, you end up with inserting improbable stories in between the movies.  I really enjoyed Alien out of the Shadows,but 20th Century Fox's idea to include Ripley was really out of left field IMO and totally driven by marketing.  The best way to do it is to just say that Alien 3 is an excellent non-canonical alternate reality film or a sort of "what if?" story.  IMO this does not invalidate Alien 3.  It's still a great film, but a sort of fantasy within a fantasy....

All Ripley nonsense aside, it was fun to go on another adventure with Ripley.  If Tim Lebbon had the stipulation to use Ripey, he did a great job.  More over, we got to enjoy Ash again.  That was his first reappearance in 35 years.  It was plain old fun!  As for canon?  gee, I don't know.

I've always held the contention that Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection should be de-canonized by Fox and they should allow Cameron to pick up the story with Hicks, Newt, and Ripley.  This wouldn't be the first time a film continuity has been reset.  They did it in the Halloween films (I mean even before Rob Zombie did it), where they literally took one of the old films and ignored it in order to have continuity with one of the older films.  It worked great.  I am not disparaging Alien 3 or AR.  They are great stand-alone films to be enjoyed on their own merits.  Nobody will come and take away your copies of the films.  But the core of the series that keeps bringing fans back in droves is Aliens.  Its James Cameron.  This way Ridley Scott can pursue his Prometheus tangent, and James Cameron can pursue the Aliens tangent.  Who knows, maybe the stories could at some point re-converge?  To me, this would be the only best way to bring back Ripley.  I think I may actually start a Facebook petition for Fox to consider this.  My three cents...
I know its a bit OT, but to add to my previous post, the plot of an Aliens sequel could be loosely inspired by Verheiden's 1988 graphic novels.  Obviously the homeworld / Space Jockey motifs would need to revamped, but that story was otherwise the best of all the graphic novels published...  From what I gather, it was Sigourney Weaver who really wanted the story to go along the lines of Alien 3 and to make her the focus of the series.  That's why Hicks and and Newt got killed.  It was Michael Biehn's openly stated greatest disappointment.  I think Sigourney has a different tune these days.  Is there anyone who thinks she wouldn't jump at the opportunity to be in a Cameron helmed Aliens sequel?  I think this is the only way the fans will handle the return of Ripley without ridiculing the effort...

Actually I feel the opposite. I loved Alien 3, didn't care too much for Alien Resurrection. Aliens was a good movie, but I would have loved it to be more like alien, horror, suspense... The mystery....

[HuDaFuK]

If one were to want to include them in any further Aliens tales, I think the best way would be to decanonize Alien 3 and go off on a different tangent.  Otherwise, you end up with inserting improbable stories in between the movies.  I really enjoyed Alien out of the Shadows,but 20th Century Fox's idea to include Ripley was really out of left field IMO and totally driven by marketing.  The best way to do it is to just say that Alien 3 is an excellent non-canonical alternate reality film or a sort of "what if?" story.  IMO this does not invalidate Alien 3.  It's still a great film, but a sort of fantasy within a fantasy....

Or you could, you know, come up with new characters that don't interfere with the films and make us want to invest in them... Except that's so much harder than sticking "Ripley" on the back of the book.

I'd take Alien 3 over Out of the Shadows any day. At least Alien 3 had a message and went somewhere. People may not like the bleakness of that message, but Out of the Shadows had no substance at all, it was just a pointless story that went nowhere and resolved nothing. Granted there are sequel books planned, but I shouldn't need them for the first novel to feel complete. I can't stand it when they do that. Alien doesn't need Aliens to be awesome.

[Corporal Hicks]

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-out-of-the-shadows/
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon/

My review and interview. Spoilers are in the interview, minor spoilers in the review.

[HuDaFuK]

Interesting reads, thanks. You clearly enjoyed the book a lot more than me, but I did think it was well-written. It was the Fox-imposed crap that spoiled it for me. A shame, because Lebbon comes across as a nice guy.

Also, completely missed that W-Y reference in The Grey!

[Xenomrph]

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-out-of-the-shadows/
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/tim-lebbon/

My review and interview. Spoilers are in the interview, minor spoilers in the review.

I love how he drops the big "canon" word completely unprompted and unprovoked in his very first answer.

[Ultramorph]

Nice review and interview, Hicks! Looking forward to the next two books.

[Darwinsgirl]

Great interview! I hope he can write further ALIEN novels.

[SM]

Finally read this.

I was very sceptical of bringing Ripley back.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overall, I think it works really well as a survival story.  We're thrown right into things early with no pissfarting around, and the characters get everything they need to know about the Aliens (mostly) from the returning miners so we don't have to spend a bunch of time waiting for the characters to catch up with us, the reader.

It also dispenses with a bunch of characters early leaving us with a core group who are easier to develop.  Unfortunately none of them really do.  They do have individual personalities, but nothing much more than that.  Hoop was a bit of a cliche, but decent enough.

As for Ripley - Lebbon did enough with Ash's subterfuge for Ripley's presence to actually make some modicum of sense.  But I don't think he really captured Ripley's character.  She talked to herself too much for starters. The focus on Amanda was understandable but overdone.  Up to the point where she begs to have her memories erased, which I didn't buy at all.  I don't think that's something Ripey would ever do.  I think Lebbon sold the process okay, but not Ripley's act of actually doing it.

If it was that simple why didn't she do it to get rid of her nightmares in Aliens?  And on the subject of continuity issues - she had scars left by the patching up that she never questions in Aliens?  Hoop didn't dress Ripley in the robe she was wearing at the end of Alien and start of Aliens.  And Lebbon missing the gun stuck in the hatch and constant references to a single hypersleep pod in the shuttle was mildly annoying.

And speaking of annoying - an acid gun that could hurt an Alien?  Really shoddy idea.  And why didn't they get Sneddon to the medpod as soon as they redocked with the Marion??  Lots of attention lavished on Ripley, but Sneddon seem to get shafted.

But, as I said, overall a good survival story, that was probably elevated by having Ripley and Ash in it, but also let down by having Ripley and Ash in it.  If that makes sense.

[Mr. Clemens]

Finally read this.

I was very sceptical of bringing Ripley back.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overall, I think it works really well as a survival story.  We're thrown right into things early with no pissfarting around, and the characters get everything they need to know about the Aliens (mostly) from the returning miners so we don't have to spend a bunch of time waiting for the characters to catch up with us, the reader.

It also dispenses with a bunch of characters early leaving us with a core group who are easier to develop.  Unfortunately none of them really do.  They do have individual personalities, but nothing much more than that.  Hoop was a bit of a cliche, but decent enough.

As for Ripley - Lebbon did enough with Ash's subterfuge for Ripley's presence to actually make some modicum of sense.  But I don't think he really captured Ripley's character.  She talked to herself too much for starters. The focus on Amanda was understandable but overdone.  Up to the point where she begs to have her memories erased, which I didn't buy at all.  I don't think that's something Ripey would ever do.  I think Lebbon sold the process okay, but not Ripley's act of actually doing it.

If it was that simple why didn't she do it to get rid of her nightmares in Aliens?  And on the subject of continuity issues - she had scars left by the patching up that she never questions in Aliens?  Hoop didn't dress Ripley in the robe she was wearing at the end of Alien and start of Aliens.  And Lebbon missing the gun stuck in the hatch and constant references to a single hypersleep pod in the shuttle was mildly annoying.

And speaking of annoying - an acid gun that could hurt an Alien?  Really shoddy idea.  And why didn't they get Sneddon to the medpod as soon as they redocked with the Marion??  Lots of attention lavished on Ripley, but Sneddon seem to get shafted.

But, as I said, overall a good survival story, that was probably elevated by having Ripley and Ash in it, but also let down by having Ripley and Ash in it.  If that makes sense.

Agreed on all points. I'd also say it wasn't good enough to read  again, but good enough that I'll read the next one.

[HuDaFuK]

Agreed on all points. I'd also say it wasn't good enough to read  again, but good enough that I'll read the next one.

Likewise.

[Corporal Hicks]

The 2nd tube is never seen (or mentioned) in the actual film though is it?

[HuDaFuK]

It's never discussed, all they say is the shuttle can't take four, but I'm fairly sure you can see it in the background of some shots.

[SM]

Both tubes are front and centre just as Mother says "You now have one minute to abandon ship".  Then you can see them again at the start of Ripley doing her sign off.

There's no angle in Aliens where you can see the second one.

[Corporal Hicks]

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=34&pid=18176#top_display_media

Never noticed that. Wow. Guess the single tube in Aliens was just more ingrained in my memory.

[Mr. Clemens]

Both tubes are front and centre just as Mother says "You now have one minute to abandon ship".  Then you can see them again at the start of Ripley doing her sign off.

I wish Lebbon had looked closer. That tiny detail kinda pulls the plug on his whole book, in my opinion.

If these authors are unclear on something, they should ask around here!