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Author Topic: Script in the works for PROM Seq  (Read 42825 times)

Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
Reply #285 on: Mar 10, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
Q
Stunned silence.

 ::)


Gazz
Mar 10, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
Reply #286 on: Mar 10, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
Q
What's so stunning?  ???


Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 11:50:57 PM
Reply #287 on: Mar 10, 2013, 11:50:57 PM
Q
Discovery.


Gazz
Mar 10, 2013, 11:56:17 PM
Reply #288 on: Mar 10, 2013, 11:56:17 PM
Q
Ridley barely gives us a moment to register the extremely brief silence between dialogue as being in awe. It's pretty much business as usual for everyone in the room.


Deuterium
Mar 11, 2013, 01:40:20 AM
Reply #289 on: Mar 11, 2013, 01:40:20 AM
Q
I'm not seeing the problem here. Of course ALIEN didn't suggest the Space Jockey was a suit, and it's pretty clear watching Prometheus that when Shaw and Ford first find the severed head they assume it to be just that. It's only once they get it back aboard the ship that they realise it's a helmet. That's the point, it's supposed to be a revelation.

Well, that is where those of us who have a problem with Prometheus find a particular sore point.  I realize everyone's opinions vary.  However, it is my humble opinion that "retconning" the original Space Jockey organism, and turning it into not just a creature in a suit/exoskeleton...but a friggin' big blue human in a suit...that is where Prometheus went totally off the rails.

I guess I can at least understand why some might find it an interesting "misdirection"  /  "twist" if the original Space Jockey turned out to be an otherwordly (alien) organism in some type of strange biomechanoid "suit".  However, when Ridley decided that the "twist" would be so mundane as to be a glorified human on steroids...WTF!!!  I wonder if he was simply trying desperately to create some sort of M. Night Shyamalan twist for the sake of shock and surprise.  But of course, the underlying reason Scott retconned and shoe-horned a human into our favorite Space Jockey, is due to the simple fact that he decided to go with some bullshit Von Daniken-esque "ancient astronaut" storyline.

And as has already been pointed out numerous times on this forum...the fact that the original mummified Space Jockey's head featured eye orbitals in it's skull, along with teeth/tusks, indicates to me that the final design, as filmed, was never intended to be some sort of "suit".

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2013, 01:47:21 AM by Deuterium »

Highland
Mar 11, 2013, 02:36:48 AM
Reply #290 on: Mar 11, 2013, 02:36:48 AM
Q

The paintings depict them visiting us and pointing the planet system that contains LV-223 I understand. But they also depict the Engineers being nice to us. Who's to say on LV-223 (at that point in history) the facility is even built? In that time anything could have been there. This is all pointless anyway.

I don't know why I even bother. It's like watching people dancing around a fire getting burned and pretending it's not there.


Quote
Let's say I make a new Alien film, and decide to make Jones the cat a synthetic cat. Does it break continuity? No, because there is not anything against this concept actually featured in the film. Is it a retcon? Absolutely! Nothing had set up to it, nothing implied or even suggested it. Jones was of course estabilished as a simple pet cat in Alien, but my new film would retcon him into a synthetic cat.


Scott thought it was a suit, he used the updated film to tweak his creation to suit today's audience - pun intended.

You can't retcon something that's not been made absolutely clear as fact. You can leave people disappointed but that's about it.


Deuterium
Mar 11, 2013, 03:01:38 AM
Reply #291 on: Mar 11, 2013, 03:01:38 AM
Q


Scott thought it was a suit, he used the updated film to tweak his creation to suit today's audience - pun intended.

You can't retcon something that's not been made absolutely clear as fact. You can leave people disappointed but that's about it.

Hi Highland,

I am pretty sure that the first we ever heard that Ridley Scott thought the Space Jockey might be a suit, was close around the time that Alien5/Prometheus had begun pre-production/planning.  It is my understanding that there is no record of him holding this view either during the filming of Alien, nor anytime in the the long years that followed, except for the relatively recent past.

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2013, 03:06:17 AM by Deuterium »

Highland
Mar 11, 2013, 07:10:41 AM
Reply #292 on: Mar 11, 2013, 07:10:41 AM
Q


Scott thought it was a suit, he used the updated film to tweak his creation to suit today's audience - pun intended.

You can't retcon something that's not been made absolutely clear as fact. You can leave people disappointed but that's about it.

Hi Highland,

I am pretty sure that the first we ever heard that Ridley Scott thought the Space Jockey might be a suit, was close around the time that Alien5/Prometheus had begun pre-production/planning.  It is my understanding that there is no record of him holding this view either during the filming of Alien, nor anytime in the the long years that followed, except for the relatively recent past.

I think your wrong. I'm sure someone will chime in with the source material but I'm sure on the Alien commentary he rambles on about it being a suit.

Even then he actually always did say he was a pilot of a bomber type ship which is exactly what we are given in Prometheus. A pilot sitting a chair wearing a pilot's suit. Not that far-fetched is it?




zuzuki
Mar 11, 2013, 07:11:51 AM
Reply #293 on: Mar 11, 2013, 07:11:51 AM
Q
^^^ Well when they did the original film,i'm pretty sure they didn't envisioned warrior xenos and a queen and yet Cameron change things and they became canon,no matter how upset some people were during production and after. The same with the xeno in Alien 3 who gets the traits from the host,another change, but hey,it's now canon.

Scott mixed things again,you may disagree with him, but it's irrelevant,cause once the movie was launched , the jockey being a humanoid became canon also.

And hey, i believe they played with the idea even during the first movie. Those murals depicting the xeno lifecycle with humanoid looking jockeys with helmet type heads didn't materialise out of thin air


Gash
Mar 11, 2013, 11:25:25 AM
Reply #294 on: Mar 11, 2013, 11:25:25 AM
Q
Is the Alien Queen a retcon... ? ;)

It's a idea I never cared for as you know, but Prometheus at least has made the hive caste idea merely one of the routes of the alien life cycle, so I'm now more reconciled to the queen existing alongside the original creepier idea behind the eggs.


King
Mar 11, 2013, 12:17:23 PM
Reply #295 on: Mar 11, 2013, 12:17:23 PM
Q


Scott thought it was a suit, he used the updated film to tweak his creation to suit today's audience - pun intended.

You can't retcon something that's not been made absolutely clear as fact. You can leave people disappointed but that's about it.

Hi Highland,

I am pretty sure that the first we ever heard that Ridley Scott thought the Space Jockey might be a suit, was close around the time that Alien5/Prometheus had begun pre-production/planning.  It is my understanding that there is no record of him holding this view either during the filming of Alien, nor anytime in the the long years that followed, except for the relatively recent past.

I think your wrong. I'm sure someone will chime in with the source material but I'm sure on the Alien commentary he rambles on about it being a suit.

Even then he actually always did say he was a pilot of a bomber type ship which is exactly what we are given in Prometheus. A pilot sitting a chair wearing a pilot's suit. Not that far-fetched is it?





actually i watched prometheus with ridleys commentary and this is exactly what he said "at the time i never thought it to be anything other than a skeleton"  so yes in the beginning even ridley wanted the jockey to be skeletal and not a suit. not only that but Dan Obanon's script describes the space jockey as grotesque being bearing no resemblance to a human.  i think people are disappointed due to the fact that the mystery of the jockey is ruined in the sense that nothing was known about them at the time, their whole race was a mystery in the alien franchise. not to mention that some thought the jockeys were ruined in Prometheus was also due to the fact that alien presented more of a dark "Lovecraftian" and outworldy feel to it. whereas Prometheus presented the polar opposite which was "the ancient astronaut" theme.


Gash
Mar 11, 2013, 01:17:32 PM
Reply #296 on: Mar 11, 2013, 01:17:32 PM
Q
One way or the other the mystery of the Space Jockey was always going to blown in Prometheus.



irn
Mar 11, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
Reply #298 on: Mar 11, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
Q
The only way to redeem the mystery of the Space Jockey is to have these Engineers be just another species that has had something to do with them. Either by being a creation of the Space Jockeys or discovering their long dead remains, like humans, did. Actually, even the derelict and SJ in Alien could have been something created by a far more eerie and mysterious entity.

The Space Jockey is one of the few, possibly even the only, mystery that I enjoy just not knowing the story behind. I don't want Prometheus to ruin that. Expand upon it by all means but don't take it away from me, man!


ChrisPachi
Mar 13, 2013, 02:39:03 AM
Reply #299 on: Mar 13, 2013, 02:39:03 AM
Q
I am pretty sure that the first we ever heard that Ridley Scott thought the Space Jockey might be a suit, was close around the time that Alien5/Prometheus had begun pre-production/planning.

Not sure of the exact timing, but you're right - it was well after Alien was released. Wasn't it even after the original pitch from Spaihts? It was his daft idea to tie the Jockey to Earth if I recall.


 

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